Flair Region, St. Louis Subregion, Second Round: (6) Daniel Bryan vs.(11)Billy Graham

Discussion in 'Flair Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 7, 2016.

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Who Wins This Match?

  1. Daniel Bryan

  2. Billy Graham

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  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a second round match in the Flair Region, St. Louis Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the Scottrade Center in St. Louis, Missouri.



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    #6. Daniel Bryan

    Vs.


    [​IMG]


    #11. Daniel Bryan





    Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    This one has me torn. Both former champs and both hugely over at one point. I think Graham had the much larger impact though. Graham was way ahead of his time. Back in his era, most stars were vanilla as could be, but Graham was a fast talking, colorful personality that in a lot of ways didn't belong in that era. He would've been perfect for the late 80s era. Graham influenced a lot of people though. Most notable among those would be Hogan himself.

    The only issue though is Graham doesn't have a good track record against technical wrestlers. He did lose his title and top spot to Backlund who Bryan is similar to. Graham has a greater legacy though.

    I'm not torn anymore. Vote Graham.
     
    #2
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  3. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    I don't think Daniel Bryan's popularity or wrestling acumen are going to be enough to take out Graham here.

    Bryan is riding a wave of support because of his retirement, but the truth is Superstar Billy Graham was more popular than Bryan for a much longer period of time and easily has the accomplishment argument sewed up. Billy Graham may have been the most influential wrestler of all time, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that, he hugely influenced both Hogan and Flair and carried the WWF at the tail end of Bruno's career. Huge name in Japan and America and was one of the only men to beat Sammartino numerous times.

    Graham has faced and beaten the absolute best of the best, I don't see Bryan being able to topple the man with the 22' pythons.
     
    #3
  4. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    I could be swayed either way on this but Bryan was one of the most over faces I can ever remember during his run to the top. He essentially beat Evolution in one night to capture the gold in arguably the biggest Wrestlemania moment ever.

    Graham, as has been said, was very inspirational to a lot of big name guys. When you inspire Hogan, you know you did something right. I have a feeling in ten or fifteen years we will see big name guys say they were inspired by Daniel Bryan, but it will be hard for them to top names likes Hogan.

    So I'm very split here.
     
    #4
  5. Prince Vee

    Prince Vee Better than I think I am

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    I'm voting for Daniel Bryan here. I mean, who had such a huge fan base in the recent past? Daniel Bryan's technical ability, the tenacity to carry matches with any sort of wrestlers isn't something that someone can attain easily. Even though his World title reigns were short lived, he had a huge impact with that. No one to my memory had a Wrestlemania moment as DB had.

    Considering his time in the independent circuit, Japan and all, DB might go over here. I can't say that he had a better career than Billy Graham as I don't know much about old school wrestlers, but contradict to the other's statement that Daniel Bryan's popularity is just because of his retirement, I'm completely against it.

    Bryan Danielson is one among the three to be the founding fathers of Ring of Honour. That said, his career had not been completely one dimensional, nor was buildup by only one promotion. He has his own legacy when he goes down the road, which will be better than Billy Graham's.
     
    #5
  6. Dmbfantomas

    Dmbfantomas Bald Billy was Better

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    Daniel Bryan winning the title wasn't even the biggest moment on that show, let alone in Mania history.

    Billy Graham should go over in a walk, here. Superstar is one of the most influential wrestlers of all time, his build, his promo, his style...everything about him should put him in a far higher echelon than he ever seems to be recognized in.

    Daniel Bryan had a really cool few years run in his prime, during one of which he was white hot. He was also injured for half of it because his body sucked. He also lost a world title match at Mania in 18 seconds.
     
    #6
  7. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    While it's extremely difficult to follow the Undertaker's only WrestleMania loss, I think more fans were emotionally invested in Daniel Bryan's matches.

    It's pretty difficult to gauge how history will remember Daniel Bryan's moment when we're only two years removed from that WrestleMania. In Billy Graham's case, we don't have any fantastic WrestleMania moments to use as a comparison.

    Billy Graham and Daniel Bryan were two men who came into pro-wrestling and made it fun, it was fun to be a fan when either of these guys were on your tv. In terms of popularity, I think they're on equal ground. Both men gave 110% to the fans, and both men were willing to lay down when it was good for the business. On top of all that both men fought through some pretty serious injuries to keep the show going.

    I'm looking at actual match potential here, which of these men has fought the hardest and won. My vote goes to Daniel Bryan because he's proven that in a big match, he's no underdog.

    Other supporters will probably drown your senses with reminders of WrestleMania 30, I say look at his entire career. Look at how he had Randy Orton resorting to cheap tactics to eek out a win, or how he fought a barn burner with John Cena that ended in a career defining clean win, or how he absolutely dominated Kane in his first title defense after WrestleMania 30.

    Just to show that I'm not insane; I'm aware of the fact that Billy Graham pinned Bruno Sammartino for the WWWF Championship. Though, Billy was getting trounced for the entire match and abruptly used a feet on the ropes pin to effectively earn his belt on a fluke. Daniel Bryan on the other hand made Evolution his bitch.
     
    #7
  8. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    When the seedings were announced, and I saw this match as a possibility, I immediately thought I'd be voting for Graham. He is a legend for good reason, and was highly entertaining, and we all know how much of an inspiration he was to some major names.

    My argument would have been about how Bryan's time at the top was relatively short-lived, due to injury...but...thinking about it...his time at the top might have been better than most people's, purely for how one-sided the crowd became, completely hijacking shows in his name. He has a decent list of championships to his name, as well as that amazing Mania moment, so it wouldn't be a stretch to argue Bryan over Graham in that regard, but popularity might just win out here.
     
    #8
  9. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    His popularity in WWE came because of his cult like following before then. The guy may have been the most over indy guy ever. His run to the top of WWE was a thing of glory few can accomplish & if not for injuries who knows where it could have gone. Those injuries came from years of brutal & hard fought victories across the world, which were all done the opposite of most indy wrestlers. He was a legit wrestling badass & did not resort to the typical indy hardcore matches or flippy superkicking spotfests like other young bucks trying to make it to the big leagues.


    Superstar was great & by no means a slouch in the ring. Credit where it is deserved. Bryan can beat you if underestimate him though & his path to the top is littered with those who did.
     
    #9
  10. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I can see both sides here in that Graham was someone that was probably a good decade ahead of his time; he was essentially Hulk Hogan before Hogan was Hogan. Graham had a very impressive physique, had a good deal of charisma and could put on a show.

    Bryan is quite possibly the most universally over wrestler WWE has seen since the days of the Attitude Era. Like Graham, that's not to say he doesn't have his detractors and that EVERYONE was into him, but I can't remember the last time I saw so many fans from all demos rally behind one guy. Bryan was a highly accomplished mat technician, he could brawl and he could do the high flying bit, though his bread & butter was his tenacity and his mat work. As has been mentioned, Bryan will probably be also wind up being one of these guys who inspires a new generation of wrestlers in the future when you consider how so many of the genuinely best wrestlers who've gotten into wrestling the past decade or have been wrestlers in Bryan's size range and that doesn't look like it's changing.

    It's a shame Bryan's career was cut short by injury as I think his star would've continued to grow otherwise. Graham defeated one of the biggest stars of all time in Bruno Sammartino to win the WWE Championship whereas Bryan has gone over Big Show, John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H and Batista. Bryan's defeat of Evolution in one night at WrestleMania XXX was impressive and led to the only realistically strong moment that could have counterbalanced the dismay and shock of seeing Taker's streak end.

    In the end, I have to go with Bryan. I found him infinitely more entertaining to watch inside the ring than Graham, he was massively over as a heel or babyface and went over so many huge stars in the all to brief time he made it to the main event stage.
     
    #10
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  11. tdmoon

    tdmoon Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Well, the bold parts of that post sum up this tournament pretty well. No past like the recent past, I guess. Vote for whomever you're more familiar with. :suspic:

    Graham was the World champion at a time when few were given the honor. The WWWF invested in him because he had an incredible physique, oozed charisma, and could go in the ring. He is mostly known for being a strongman but would also wrestle sixty minute matches.

    Danielson had a bunch of success in the indies then a too brief run in the big leagues, a solid run with the title to go with some rather weak ones. It is a shame that injuries forced his retirement and if he had more time maybe this turns out differently. He had poor luck health-wise and deserved better from the WWE regarding the obstacles they put in front of him but that can't be held against Graham.

    Graham had some success in various territories as well and a World title at a time when that was truly special. He fought other world title holders, had one of wrestlings epic feuds with Dusty Rhodes and his persona was so charismatic that some of the most famous wrestlers of all-time blatantly ripped it off.

    Graham's title reign outshines Bryans and his influence is greater than Bryan's. Vote for the legacy of a truly innovative wrestler over a legacy of a funny beard and a catchy chant. Vote for the Superstar, Billy Graham.
     
    #11
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  12. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Graham was one of the most influential wrestlers ever. He was the Gorgeous George of his era in that he was just so different. He was a true must see performer. The edgy and cool heel had been done before, but Superstar's level of charisma and showmanship, combined with his power and athleticism hadn't. I struggle to think of anyone before that would have had Superstar's gimmick to the level that he rose. And the number of people that emulated him afterwards was many. The whole stereotype of "Vince pushing big guys" pretty much originated from Graham. The guy was Vince Jr.'s favorite wrestler in his youth. Bryan had a great underdog story; I get it. But its been done many times in the past. And will probably be done many times in the future.

    Bryan worked in an era where the WWE name brand is so popular that just being associated with them makes you popular. Graham was a persona that transcended the industry in ways that Bryan never did. Or could. Bryan worked sold out venues that drew fans that weren't there just to see him. Those fans came to see the WWE. But in Graham's case, they did. Billy was the closest thing to a Dwayne Johnson in that era. So it can very much be argued that Graham had a much higher reach with the fans, because he didn't have a multi-million dollar promotional machine backing him every week. Its been documented that Bryan was not a strong draw as world champion. Graham was such a strong drawing card that he was one of the first, if not the first, big heel to have an extended world title reign in the Northeast.

    Kayfabe wise Graham defeated Bruno Sammartino for the world title. Very impressive. Bryan defeated Triple H in an era where Trips is prone to put over younger stars, and Batista on his way out. Not trying to cut Bryan short, but running through a past prime Evolution is not exactly like taking the company title off its most dominant champion ever.

    All things considered I'm voting Graham.
     
    #12
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  13. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    See this is why I love the tourney.

    A few years back I was watching this unfold and heard people speak highly of Graham, saw his documentary, saw a few of his matches and man, what a wrestler he was!

    Superstar is one of my favorites of all time and was just the total package. One of the most erred decisions by a pro wrestler ever was when he decided to walk away after he lost to Backlund. They had started cheering for him and while Sr. was more clean cut, I think Jr. would have pushed for Graham.

    Then there is Bryan. Daniel Bryan is an inspiration. He swept us all in this frenzy of warm fuziness of BELIEVING in wrestling again. Believing in a wrestler. His run up to Mania 30 starting from mid 2012 has to be the most emotionally invested I have seen fans being since the turn of the millenium.

    That special.

    I am torn between two favorites.
     
    #13
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  14. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Bryan got over in a game & stage mainly ruled by the big man. Pure talent and charisma trumps muscles on rare occasions. As good & as popular Superstar BG was, I dont think he was as popular as Bryan. The groundswell of support & attention he got because of that reached across the globe & transcended wrestling the likes we had not seen in years except maybe for Cena recently. People at sporting events, celebrities, casuals & die hards over the years have picked up certain catch phrases, taunts or chants because of wrestling. Top of those lists are Flair, Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena & Bryan. Hell, even more people do crotch chops like DX than they do or say anything regarding Superstar.


    When something you do or say catches on like wildfire, that is a popularity that transcends wrestling. Graham was very good & fucking over during his time, but Bryan was more so. Being looked up to and imitated among your wrestling peers is a prideful moment that impacts the business & shows how great you were, but when lightning is caught in a bottle as with Bryan it becomes something different & special.


    Besides that aspect, Bryan could go against anyone, adapt & win with a varying offense. He has the tools to take out someone like his opponent here. If the guy was born earlier, he would have likely been NWA champ at least once for a good stretch. A guy who could hang with the likes of Flair & Steamboat during their time.


    Bryan has the tools & popularity to win this.
     
    #14
  15. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    DB has always been at his best on the big stage as an underdog, and going against a bonafide stud in Graham, he would be just that. Graham would likely kick Bryan's ass all over the ring, but in the end Bryan would make the comeback and pull off the upset win to thunderous applause.
     
    #15
  16. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Billy Graham is unquestionably a very influential and successful wrestler, but I just don't think he'd win this. Bryan's rise to prominence recently is entirely down to his ability to get the crowd onto his side, and the way he improved in the crowd's esteem from 2011 to his early retirement was fantastic. What I'd say is this, Bryan managed to beat John Cena clean, a far bigger star than Billy Graham. Graham failed to win in MSG as the WWWF Heavyweight Champion to Mil Mascaras, a much smaller man for whom Graham couldn't really have had a more advantageous set of circumstances. Bryan would win this, I think.
     
    #16
  17. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    You probably thought I voted for the old guy, didn't you? Not this time. I know Superstar Billy Graham was one of the most influential wrestlers of all time. That should not be overlooked. However, many people may not realize it yet but I think Daniel Bryan has been very influential himself in recent years.

    Bryan is a founding father of Ring of Honor. Lately Ring of Honor seems like a breeding ground for WWE. Bryan's popularity and success may have opened WWE's eyes to others that have worked a lot in ROH and around the world. Bryan's popularity may be a big reason why guys like Sami Zayn, AJ Styles, and Finn Balor were signed to WWE. It's a lot easier to be a success or an influence in wrestling when you look like Daniel Bryan.

    I remember the first time I saw pictures of American Dragon in PWI. I literally laughed thinking I could kick his ass and there was no way he'd ever turn into anything. Superstar was expected to succeed, and to his credit he did. Bryan is the ultimate underdog story. A lot of people wanted to be like Superstar but knew they couldn't. Bryan made people that couldn't be like Superstar realize they didn't need to be. And when Bryan was put in the ring with big stars similar to Superstar like John Cena and Triple H he came out on top with a clean victory.
     
    #17
  18. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    Love me some Graham but went with Bryan.

    Maybe its coz he just retired but I found myself many a times logging onto youtube to see his Cage Match with Bray where he face again, the Ascension Ceremony, that monster package (uhhh).

    I swear man it makes you kinda teary and fills you up with this unbelievable emotion of appreciation. I expect ROH fans (the uncynical ones) to feel that EVEN more, having seen him since the beginning. Bryan was so special.
     
    #18
  19. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I've been on the fence for this since the boards went up, and I can say now I've been pushed over to voting for Bryan. Graham is clearly a respected wrestler, and his impact will always be remembered, but Bryan was something special, and we have no idea just how special, with the second half of his career taken by injury.
     
    #19
  20. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Yupp, Billy Graham was a good wrestler.

    But Daniel Bryan being a real inspiration to my life with his whole Yes! Movement makes me vote Bryan over Graham. He was a great wrestler and the injuries atlast ended his career at a wrong time. He had two successful title wins at consecutive Wrestlemania and then had to relinquish due to injury. But his aforementioned movement is enough to go over Graham. Nobody has been as over as Bryan in this decade so Bryan easily wins here.
     
    #20
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