Flair Region, Lexington Subregion, Second Round: (1) Ric Flair vs. (17) Verne Gagne

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round match in the Flair Region, Lexington Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the Rupp Arena in Lexington, Kentucky.

#1. Ric Flair


Vs.

#17. Verne Gagne


​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted

 

[SSJPhenom]

Can anyone say 60 minute draw? Cause that's likely how this match would go. Honestly though, in the 80's there was only one guy on Flair's level and that guy was Hogan. Flair owned wrestling at his peak and usually ended up getting the better of all his opponents in the end.

Vote Flair.

 

[OYDK]

This would be a much closer matchup than the rankings would lead people to believe. Verne was a 16 (or 15?) time World Champion in his own right, although I think only 10 of those reigns are actually recognized, and held the AWA World title multiple times during the organization's peak. The fact that the AWA was his company and he was running the book may work against Verne but it can't be denied that the guy was a huge draw and one of the biggest stars in an era of massive stars.

But Flair, apart from Hogan, is probably the most decorated, popular wrestler of all time. I wrote this in the Inoki thread, but the guy was able to draw nearly 200,000 fans to more than one event in North friggin Korea. Flair dominated WCW throughout the 80s, has wrestled throughout 5 different decades, is a 16 time World Champion, and is undoubtedly one of the greatest of all time no matter which way you slice it.

Flair takes it with dirty tactics in a great battle.

 

[NSL]

Before this thread gets bogged down with old school history lessons...I'm going to let my two cents be known that I'm voting for Flair, and probably won't read too much of the contrarian points being made in Gagne's favor. I get that he was great and a pioneer for the business, but I don't think an argument about being a pioneer can be made without eventually bringing up Flair. He's what kept the NWA relevant during the 80's, and he was big enough to just make the leap to WWE and stay on top, before going back to WCW and again staying at the top. As the leader of the Four Horsemen he was one of the most charismatic individuals to ever step into the ring. His list of championships and accomplishments speaks for itself. He's headlined Starrcade and WrestleMania (I know the HBK match wasn't the "main event", but c'mon...it was the headliner) and has helped build some of the biggest names in the business.

 

[enviousdominous]

The teacher vs the student. The goal of any good teacher worth his salt is to create talents that are better than they are, to inspire greatness in them and unlock their full potential.

Verne Gagne was the guy who told Ric to lose some damn weight and lit a fire under his ass in regard to getting the crowd to wake up when you arrive. Oh, how he inspired Ric Flair.

Ric became a guy who didn't have to tell anyone to respect him, he had the greatest performers of all time recognizing him as a trend-setter and he had crowds all over the world coming unglued for his appearances. Maybe not all of that is thanks to Verne, but Verne deserves some kudos.

Vote Ric Flair, because Verne would want that.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Wow this is some matchup. The storyline basically writes itself as the pupil takes on the master.

I am kinda inclining Verne because I know Flair is more recognizable but strictly kayfabe wise, Flair is the top heel, Gagne is the top face and if we imagine this happening on a Starrcade 85 maybe, who would win?

I dunno.

 

[Tastycles]

Gagne was the face of a promotion that was the biggest in the USA for a time in the 1960s, despite Ric Flair's accolades he was always the biggest fish in the smaller pond, and as such I don't think he's as good. Not a ridiculous result for Flair to win, but I don't think he should.

 

[Bernkastel]

This would be a pretty evenly matched bout with both men in their peaks. I think Gagne has the voting edge for 2 reasons...

- His influence over the rest of the industry. The AWA served as a launching pad for the careers of many future all time greats, including Hulk Hogan, Bob Backlund, The Road Warriors, Ricky Steamboat, Iron Sheik, and Ric Flair himself. Verne established himself as one of the most iconic trainers and promoters before the Vince Jr era. Even when the WWE was putting other territories out of business the AWA was able to continue on for an additional 7 years before folding due to lack of resources.

- His consistency and appeal. Ric was a staple of the NWA and later JCP/WCW in the 80's when the former became associated with it. The territory was not as hot as the WWE at the time, and unlike the AWA, JCP had the resources to keep up with WWE. And I think a lot of that had to do with Ric's lack of appeal within his territory. Some would argue the mismanage of Jim Herd, which is certainly a fair point, but Herd didn't start his tenure until the late 80's. So that's 5 years of NWA/JCP/WCW not being able to keep up with the rapid expansion of the WWE when they should have been able to. Verne Gagne was one of the most popular wrestlers in the US in the 50's. He was given a limited version of the US title based out of Chicago, but thanks to his appeal he was able to boost the credibility of the title to the point where fans not only saw him as the top US champion in the nation, but as a worthy successor to the NWA title. Many fans and promoters saw the value of having Gagne as the NWA champion, and he was passed over simply due to political influence. He later founded his own version of the AWA, the old one had roots tracing back to Tony Stecher, and by placing the newly christened championship onto himself he was able to raise the it's credibility until it was eventually seen on the same level as the NWA world tile. A lot of people here tend to give Gagne a bad time for booking himself as champion, but he held the AWA title for a combined 12 years. That's longer than Flair held a world championship. And when you hold a title of that magnitude for 12 years in a region and drew the money that Gagne did, then you're a universal success.

So consistency and appeal, and overall influence is why I am voting Verne over Flair here.

 

[stingray11214]

Though bot are vary accomplished career-wise, people tend to forget that once upon a time, Ric Flair was a was a very heavy brawler. He was not the "dirtiest player in the game" for the early part of his career. What changed? A certain plane ride with Mr. Wrestling, and Johnny Valentine changed his entire career. You see, that plane crashed. Ric Flair would break his back and a few bones in his neck. It was a miracle that he even wrestled again. So, he HAD to re-invent himself to save his career. Wellll, guess what? He did. And what he did was become one of the greatest performers of his generation. 16-time World Champeen, selling out arenas all over the World. Created one of the most famous stables in history, The Four Horsemen, which would be an NWA/JCP/WCW staple for years. He is still deeply revered by Wrestling fans to this very day.

Gagne was a product of his era. He had to create another promotion just to become a World Champ. Granted, his 2 NCAA Titles, combined with his 10 AWA Straps, not to mention all the greats that he trained, including Flair, earned his right to be amongst the greats in the Pantheon. However, Gagne was never the player that Flair became.

Vote for Ric Flair, WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[ShinChan]

Ric Flair getting rank #1 and a whole region on his name easily showcases the level of Ric Flair.

Yeah, I despise him now around Charlotte but still I can't ignore his in-ring skill, mic-skills, accolades etc.

So WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!