First Round: Montreal - Nick Bockwinkel (EL! not le!) vs. El Canek

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round matchup in the Montreal Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated.

Location: Molson Center, Montreal, Quebec.

Nick Bockwinkle

Vs.

El Canek

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Canek in a walk.

Bockwinkel has a minor edge in technique, but it's not overwhelming. Bock was a very good wrestler in an AWA that had lost some depth. Curt Henning really brought out some of the best of what Nick could do. I like him, but...

Canek has the edge in power and agility. Canek was as big or bigger in the UWA than Bockwinkel was in the AWA. Canek's intensity will overwhelm the old guard.

Vote Canek here.

 

[GenMe]

Nick has my respect, but he doesn't stand a chance against Canek in this match-up here. Canek was a strong luchador with a lot of agility. Canek was also the main and top wrestler in the UWA. Canek was just great in-side the ring.

So therefor my vote goes to El Canek.

 

[Papa Shango]

It's been said already but let me re-iterate. I haven't seen alot of lucha libre videos, but of what I've seen, I can say that El Canek easily is one the most balanced wrestlers I've ever seen, in terms of blending power and agility. Nick Bockwinkle was a good technical wrestler, but he just does not have what it takes to win here.

 

[Coco]

I think it’s clear that if any of you peons intended to go with your own instincts rather than cave under the pressure of a small minority of Lucha Libre aficionados, Nick Bockwinkel will win this match in a walk. You see, while Canek made his name in Mexico and made what is a damn good one by Mexican wrestling standards, the notion that he can hold a candle to Bockwinkel when it comes to entertaining an American crowd is laughable. Most of you are American. Go with what would entertain you.

Bockwinkel is a great promo man, one which history has overlooked in favour of more colourful promo men such as Ric Flair, The Rock, and the Ultimate Warrior. Bockwinkel was special in that he got his point across, maintained top of the card status, and got the crowd to invest in his personality without being as overstated and downright forceful as those men. Bockwinkel was calm, purposeful, and articulate in his promos. A gentleman without forcing the issue. His elegance was one that didn’t club you over the head, and yet you still recognized and understood it. He makes the modern day Chris Jericho look like Randy Savage in his heyday on the microphone. He was successful while managing to be an understatedly intellectual. This is no small feat in an industry driven by colourful entertainers, and in a country where the spoken word is taken so seriously in wrestling. In this way, Canek could never measure up to accomplish half of what Bockwinkel did in the United States, the country where most of you get your wrestling and your entertainment. Quite simply, even if you’ve never heard of either, you should know quite plainly from any cursory pursuing of the internet that you would have liked Bockwinkel more. And it is for that reason that you must vote for Bockwinkel here. Too many fans come into this competition and make things about how great foreign wrestlers you’ve never heard of are and how stupid you are for not voting for them. Don’t take the bait. Make a stand for wrestling you enjoy or would have enjoyed.

Vote Bockwinkel.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Coco has managed, in one post, to a) insult the voters, and b) try to convince you that promo skills and interviews should determine a winner in a kayfabe-based tournament. Hell, the fact that Bockwinkle is a "gentlemen" somehow should affect his ability to beat a Mexican legend. And that's just ridiculous, but I've come to expect it from him.

Canek could never measure up to accomplish half of what Bockwinkel did in the United States

Canek won 15 UWA World Titles over the course of 26 years. That's AMAZING. And the UWA World Title is on par in Mexico with the AWA title in the states.

Here's a list of successful title defenses Canek had with the UWA Title: Pat Patterson, Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Stan Hansen, Konnan, Yokozuna (known then as Kokina), Owen Hart (known then as Blue Blazer), and coutnless Mexican Luchas. He's also won the title from Lou Thesz, Vader, Riki Choshu, Tatsumi Fujinami, and Vampiro.

Coco is trying to play a sad ethnocentric card, trying to convince you that because you are (he assumes) American and speak English, that you should vote for the English-speaking American. That's all he has to go on, and it's an insult to the members intelligence, no matter who you vote for.

 

[gd]

b) try to convince you that promo skills and interviews should determine a winner in a kayfabe-based tournament.

Wouldn't promo skills and entertainment value fall under the "vote based on anything" criteria in this tourney? I believe so.

Regardless of how many guys Canek beat, even all time greats like Konnan and "countless Mexcian luchadors", that doesn't mean he should get the win here. Just look at this match here, other than the batshit crazy Mexican fans, nothing about this is entertaining at all.

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[/YOUTUBE]

Certainly not compared to this:

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Do you think Canek ever utilized the word pragmatic in any of his promos? I doubt it. It's tough to talk with that a mask over your face, that's for sure. Just because you vote against a foreign guy, doesn't mean you're racist or unintelligent. In this case, it means you're making the right choice.

 

[Coco]

Coco has managed, in one post, to a) insult the voters,

IC has managed, in less than one sentence, to accuse me of something I haven't done.

and b) try to convince you that promo skills and interviews should determine a winner in a kayfabe-based tournament.

You should check with the guy running this tournament about whether it's kayfabe based or not.

Actually, I'll save you the time. We can vote based on whatever we see fit. Promo skills are a large part of wrestling. Voting based on them shouldn't be discouraged. I don't know why we're letting appreciation of promo skills become such a taboo in this thing. It's damn disgraceful and it fails to acknowledge a large aspect of the craft as significant.

Bockwinkle is a gentlemen

The only smart thing you've said yet.

Although it's not too smart. You still spelled his name wrong.

Canek won 15 UWA World Titles over the course of 26 years. That's AMAZING. And the UWA World Title is on par in Mexico with the AWA title in the states.

Wow. A guy who I said was successful in Mexico achieved success in Mexico. I was right. Again. And it in no way convinces me that Bockwinkel doesn't deserve my vote.

Coco is trying to play a sad ethnocentric card

We have one member pushing campaigns of only black wrestlers and a group making sure the Japanese get ahead simply because they're Japanese. Are you trying to say that white American male wrestlers shouldn't be given the same type of passionate support? How dare you?!

This "argument" from IC, fair posters of WrestleZone, is the true insult to your intelligence.

Vote Bockwinkel.

 

[Tastycles]

As I begin to type, I haven't decided which way I'm going, and I hope this post will clear my thoughts.

You look at the level of victories that both men have had, and the obvious leader is Canek. AWA never had a particularly strong roster, and Canek has beaten some fairly huge names. At the same time, most of those wins came in Mexico, when he spent 20 years doing a patriot beating the foreign invader angle over and over again.

Montreal isn't in either man's turf, so that doesn't give me an easy way out. I think I'm going to go with Bockwinkel. I'd love luchadors to do well, but in all honesty, Canek is criminally overrated, and Bockwinkel doesn't get the credit he deserves because the AWA has largely been forgotten.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Umm... I'll level with you guys here. I know shit about El Canek. I researched and watched a match or two, and found him to be a great wrestler and definite legend in Mexico and in wrestling in general. Nick Bockwinkel managed to be the AWA's signature attraction for the longest time, and you want to know why you can vote for Bockwinkel and not feel too bad about it? Because he went into Memphis, Tennessee and defeated Jerry Lawler. Clean. Yep. Ask me how many wrestlers managed to do that? Not very many. Race didn't do it, neither did Flair, Hansen, Hogan, or Dusty Rhodes. Bockwinkel got a clean pin on him in Memphis and nearly died leaving the arena.

Bockwinkel is a great wrestler, but Canek is just on his own playing field. In Mexico, he's revered as their greatest wrestler. And that's why he received my vote. In a big match, I feel that Canek could out wrestle Bockwinkel and get a pin in a 5 star classic.

And by the way, voting for someone because they cut better promos is stupid. That would mean we'd see Miz vs. Ken Anderson in the finals in that case.

 

[Coco]

Nick Bockwinkel managed to be the AWA's signature attraction for the longest time, and you want to know why you can vote for Bockwinkel and not feel too bad about it? Because he went into Memphis, Tennessee and defeated Jerry Lawler. Clean. Yep. Ask me how many wrestlers managed to do that? Not very many. Race didn't do it, neither did Flair, Hansen, Hogan, or Dusty Rhodes. Bockwinkel got a clean pin on him in Memphis and nearly died leaving the arena.

Canek is just on his own playing field. In Mexico, he's revered as their greatest wrestler. And that's why he received my vote.

What am I see here?

"Bockwinkel is great, but Montreal is just down the road from Mexico City, so vote Canek."

Except those of us with some chops for non-wrestling facts know that Montreal is a long way away from Mexico City. Just ask Tasty. He seems to understand this point.

And by the way, voting for someone because they cut better promos is stupid. That would mean we'd see Miz vs. Ken Anderson in the finals in that case.

Based on any criteria, people with vote in different ways. You find this in terms of debates on overall influence in the business, kayfabe, etc. To assume that a vote on mic skills would yield the same results time after time ignores the reality that no other debate ends that way.

For example, I wouldn't vote for either of those men as I think they're forced hacks. I doubt I'm the only one who thinks this way. From this notion, debate is born. It's not as cut and dry as you say it is.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

What am I see here?

"Bockwinkel is great, but Montreal is just down the road from Mexico City, so vote Canek."

Except those of us with some chops for non-wrestling facts know that Montreal is a long way away from Mexico City. Just ask Tasty. He seems to understand this point.


Based on any criteria, people with vote in different ways. You find this in terms of debates on overall influence in the business, kayfabe, etc. To assume that a vote on mic skills would yield the same results time after time ignores the reality that no other debate ends that way.

For example, I wouldn't vote for either of those men as I think they're forced hacks. I doubt I'm the only one who thinks this way. From this notion, debate is born. It's not as cut and dry as you say it is.

I misspoke as far as saying that Canek was on his 'own playing field'. I meant to say that he was in his own LEAGUE as far as his skills and stuff were concerned. I know Montreal isn't exactly Canek's home turf. lol.

But in all seriousness, many factors come into play as far as promos are concerned, but that's not what I base a vote from. Alls I was saying.