Fact or Fiction: Rhino Was Actually Better Than Goldberg.

[SAMBOLIEWWE]

Or, because the guy was in WCW, working on syndication and cable, while Rhino was struggling to get on TV because his promotion was working with a station that barely respected it.

I love how you neglect that tiny matter.

Had Paul Haymen found Goldberg and introduced him the Same way he was introduced in WCW, ( obviously without the pyro or the same music ) but with the mystery , the look he had, and they way his matches went, Goldberg would have taken ECW to another level.Heyman would have booked a guy like that to go over. He would have gotten more people to try and find ECW.
as I said earlier, I was always a WWE guy, but Goldberg got me interested . The only way I could watch WCW ( living in Ontario ) was to watch Nitro after Raw at Midnight on TSN , or wait until Wednesday . So I had too work to watch it. ECW was on every friday on TNN and when I did watch it ( which was rare ) was sure as hell not because of Rhyno.

 

[Tenta]

Had Paul Haymen found Goldberg and introduced him the Same way he was introduced in WCW, ( obviously without the pyro or the same music ) but with the mystery , the look he had, and they way his matches went, Goldberg would have taken ECW to another level.Heyman would have booked a guy like that to go over. He would have gotten more people to try and find ECW.
as I said earlier, I was always a WWE guy, but Goldberg got me interested . The only way I could watch WCW ( living in Ontario ) was to watch Nitro after Raw at Midnight on TSN , or wait until Wednesday . So I had too work to watch it. ECW was on every friday on TNN and when I did watch it ( which was rare ) was sure as hell not because of Rhyno.

Agree to disagree on all matters. As it is, there's no swaying you, and I'm not fully swayed myself. I still have yet to understand, at what point, you all believe Goldberg to be a better wrestler, and use said intimidation to come across in his wrestling. Rhino actually had a psychology to his matches, unlike Goldberg's "come, spear, done" tactic.

As it is, i'm heading to bed. Consider this, though... Why do you believe that Goldberg was a better wrestler? Because he drew more? I'd agree he drew more. But that does that necessarily make him "better"?

 

[SAMBOLIEWWE]

As it is, i'm heading to bed. Consider this, though... Why do you believe that Goldberg was a better wrestler? Because he drew more? I'd agree he drew more. But that does that necessarily make him "better"?

He was better because He got all of us, besides you and the rest of the Rhyno family , emotionally invested in what he was doing. Is he a Bret Hart or a Kurt Angle , hell no , But this is not the and actual Wrestling Contest, it is a show. You watch to be entertained. Goldberg did that he entertained. He was a good Professional Wrestler. He entertained all of us more, and got us to watch his matches, much more than Rhyno ever did. Obviously Goldberg did the character best, and his matches were better , because he got us into it more. We have all seen Rhyno work and Goldberg work. Its not that Goldberg was in the bigger company , its the fact that I was more entertained by Goldberg and what he brought to said character.


I dont have any other ways to measure a Wrestler and how to judge who I think is better, than to look at who I thought entertained me more.

and that would be Goldberg.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Again, we're working with that same argument of "Goldberg is more famous". Again, this question is more of the matter of who played the better character. Not neccesarily who drew better.

The entire point of wrestling is to get over (i.e. famous). Hulk Hogan wasn't nearly the greatest "worker", but something about the man makes him the greatest *wrestler* of all time (or in the discussion, I guess). The point of the business isn't for random individuals to feel you play a similar character better then a more famous person. The point of the business is to get as many people as possible to buy into you. Goldberg did. Rhyno didn't. And Rhyno got his chance in the WWE, and never got over near to the extent that Goldberg did. So, to answer your question, no he didn't play the character ebtter. It's a subjective question to individuals, but when you judge by large groups (the way professional wrestling judges success, by the way), I'd say most people felt that Goldberg played the character better.

 

[Monky]

I've noticed a common arguement, that Goldberg was a better monster than Rhyno because Rhyno wasn't over in WWE. However, I think that misses the point because Rhyno wasn't the same monster in WWE that he was in ECW. He got the "I'm not a McMahon creation" treatment in WWE. So to judge who was a better monster you can only compare Rhyno's ECW to Goldberg's WCW. Moreso, this claim that Goldberg was better solely because he got more over ignores one key component to what makes a wrestler good, not actually hurting your opponent. Saying Goldberg wasn't about technical wrestling does not excuse him from that component of what makes a wrestler good.

 

[stryfe604]

first of all tenta kudos on the post. and on replying and having a rebuttal to every post.

second of all i didnt read the second page of posts, mostly because im a bottle of appletons down and didnt have the patience and wanted to say what i wanted to say before i forgot it.

i agree with tenta, from the first page and some of the third page of posts i read, i haven't read that rhyno was in a land of smaller performers. compared to wcw where there were giants 6'4 and upwards, compared to ecw's at max i believe not so sure about but was big sal at 6'6 300+? rhyno did amazing. if you take into account size and skill, then devastation, rhyno wins. rhyno was miles better in promo's and miles better in ring. dont get me wrong rhyno had some greats to work with, as did goldberg, but rhyno just seemed to sell his moves better than goldberg. yes rhyno failed in wwe, but what do you expect when the average height is 6'4 and average weight is 250+. rhyno was doomed to fail in ecw just like mike awesome failed in wcw, and tazz failed in wwe.

well all im trying to say is, take into account who rhyno worked with, the peoples size and skill, and then do the same for goldberg. take into accounts promo's and booking, personally i think rhyno edges out goldberg.

tenta im with you on this.

 

[jayteeERA]

Now put Goldberg in ecw, Heyman would been behind this guy, Goldberg would of destroy almost the entire roster, became champion, and moved on to WCW or WWF and continually rising to the top.

Start Rhino in WCW. He would of had a good run for a year and then flop, He probably would of went to wwe and flopped worst. Don't get me wrong i was excited to see rhino when he first started in the wwf. But nothing happen for him and i wasn't interesting in him anymore.

Put them together. Goldberg vs rhino hardcore match - Rhino would shine all over Goldberg, cause this match is up his alley, but it might backfire, cause most likely Goldberg would of won and would of made him more intense.

Goldberg vs rhino sub match. Rhino would of look like a jobber.
Goldberg vs rhino regular match- Rhino would never stood a chance.
Spear vs Gore - which one you rather get hit by? I prefer a gore. spear would kill me. A gore i would of shook off. But i do like gore better.
Lets face it Goldberg drew more. He can do more.

 

[kcordloh]

Goldberg & Rhyno were not the same character. Rhyno was a crazed individual, more of a Cactus Jack.
Goldberg was an athlete, he wanted to win. He never had the "I wanna kill you!", he just had the "I am gonna beat you!" mentality. Which in my opinion are totally different things. A real athlete won't hurt a competitor to get ahead, where as a crazed individual will (no respectable football player clips the all-state quarter back on purpose just so his team can win). Aka: two different characters.

As far as their style's, Goldberg had a decent moveset. His military press slams were crazy, and while he might not have been a technician he used alot of various moves. I don't remember the match, it was one of his after defeating Raven but before Hogan that he tossed a German suplex. I've seen his used other suplexes, lots of slam variations, etc. Heck didn't he use the superkick a couple times?


And last but not least, Goldberg was convincing. (Nice choice of the Regal match instead of one where he looked good, say against DDP?, and Rhyno's was one of Rhyno's better ones). The look, the entrance, the hype, the intensity, it just range true. WWE even marketed him well. I still remember the night he came back in 2003, such a moment. Rhyno wasn't able to get/stay over in WWE, Goldberg was able to. They were both given pushes in 2003/04 and Goldberg was over, Rhyno wasn't that over. Same company, both getting pushed, check the crowd reactions from your old tapes.

 

[kcordloh]

Also, to sumarize, I think Goldberg was better because:
1) He looked and acted like an athlete
2) His "spear, jackhammer, over" was realistic. Every major star uses the same finishing sequence night in and night out. You can't fault him for that. It worked. As an athlete if something works you use it until it fails. I run road races. I use the same tactic everytime, and haven't lost one in years. When someone does beat me, I will use a new one.
3) You knew he was gonna toast his opponent. I was 11 when he debuted, but I recently rewatched every edition of nitro again (love tape libraries, but damn if I didn't use fast forward alot) and I got caught up in the "Snort, spit, beat you up" as E.B. said. It was fun and believeable and with Hogan & co on top you knew he was gonna go beat the shit out of them.


As far as just technical ability, Rhyno has the edge. But Goldberg just had some sort of presence. Rhyno looked like a tough dude, but Goldberg looked like a superstar. Kind of like if you asked me if I wanted to face Mike Tyson or Brock Lesnar. Brock looks like he would murder you, whereas Mike is tough but you might have a chance if you got lucky.
Maybe it was the look, maybe it was the movesets or how they were booked, but something about Goldberg just screams "Unbeatable" whereas Rhyno just says "tough guy".

 

[JJohns]

I have to say fiction. First of all, you used the WRONG Bill Goldberg match to prove a point. The match that you were using was the cause of Steven (now William) Regal's first termination from WCW because he wouldn't cooperate in the match with Goldberg.

Second, at the time that this match took place, Goldberg had been a professional wrestler (including training) for at most 2 years, where as the Massacre at 34th Street Match with LSD came for Rhino after many more years of experience.

Sure, Goldberg was sloppy in the ring at times, and mainly got over for his look and gimmick, but he was still developing the tools that were needed for him to become a successful wrestler.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

Are you freakin kidding me? This isn't even a fair comparison. Goldberg was THE MAN! He went over on Hogan. Hulk Hogan! You mean to tell me that if giving the same situations (i.e. Goldberg & Rhyno being in the same company, i.e. WCW, that Rhyno would get the nod?). Goldberg was the best thing to happen in WCW minus the creation of the nwo (and I mean the 1st three members, not the oversaturated version that let any ole body in there). Sure, Rhyno was a good worker in ECW and not to take anything away from their product, but even at WCW's 3rd worse day, ECW was still 2nd fiddle. That being said, you can't say Rhyno was better due to his "intensity". Jake Roberts had great intensity, where did it ultimately get him? Nowhere really because Vince didn't see fit to give him any type of title run whatsoever.

It wasn't just his intensity that drew butts into the seats whenever Goldberg wrestled. It was the way in which he looked. He looked like he could kick your ass, and although Rhyno looks the same, Goldberg looks like he would do it with less effort. No one talks about Rhyno's ECW title reign, but a lot of people talk about Goldberg's WCW title run. The man even went over on HHH when NO ONE could beat him. Gimme a break. Again, Goldberg was great, GREAT at what he did. He was supposed to have been an unstoppable monster and guess what, he would have been had one Kevin Nash not played politicks and gotten him knocked off. Case close as far as I'm concerned.

 

[smalltownfan]

Absolutely fiction!! Now if you look at it from a longevity standpoint, then Rhino is the guy. However, due to the impact he made, the intensity he fought with, and his overall persona, Goldberg is way above Rhino. He was faster and much more powerful than Rhino which made his moves all the more devastating and he could sell tickets. He was THE draw in WCW in the late 90's and if WWE would have used him properly, he probably would have still been there.

 

[Big Sexy]

While Goldberg was putzing with jobbers, Rhino was taking names established in ECW lore, and burying them. Sandman. Dreamer. Not even everyone's favorite, RVD, got the edge on Rhino. He destroyed everyone, not just a couple jobbers and The Giant.

Personally I'll take close wins over guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Luger over a couple dominating wins over guys like the Sandman and Tommy Dreamer. And don't act like Rhyno dominated everyone in sight. This is a guy who lost to the likes of Kid Kash and Super Crazy in ECW.

As far as intensity goes not many in the history of wrestling could compete with Goldberg. Standing in the pyro, then coming out with the most intense look you will ever see. Goldberg honestly scared the shit out of me. Rhyno was alright but you just can't compare him to a guy like Goldberg.

 

[Dropkicked]

Fact. I agree on the original statement that Rhyno was always better at playing the part of an intense wrestler. Most people are answering based on who was bigger overall. Thats not the point in question.

Rhyno defenitely played the role of a untouchable force a lot better. Goldberg was a lot easier to put across mearly on his look. His intensity was all in his taunts. Big deal.

Bottomline, look who is still in the game. Rhyno. Goldberg's gimick ran out and there wasn't anything else to do with him. Rhyno stilll has intensity while still working with other storylines. Goldberg was just one sided.

No matter what Rhyno is thrown into, he still has a presence of power, explosiveness and intensity. His Gore is still one of the most intense moves in wrestling.

 

[stryfe604]

one thing i keep seeing repeated here is the fact that people are saying put rhino in wcw and goldberg in ecw. that's not the point or issue here. we are not putting hypothetical situations here. rhino/rhyno didn't go to wcw and if did he would have become just as watered down as he was in wwe. but i pose the question of could goldberg have been as hardcore as rhino in ecw, probably not. goldberg could not do the tables matches, the flaming tables, the tacks, barbed wire bats and etc... the most hardcore thing goldberg did was take a chair shot. but again this is all hypothetical. if we take substance and fact we see that goldberg had the streak, got over with big players such as hogan, nash, hall, sting, flair, and the list goes on. if we look at rhino we see he went over without any big names, just on pure ferocity and intensity. if the question is who was more of a beast and play the beast role better, rhino/rhyno wins. if the question becomes hypothetical and who would strive in opposite brands, and who was over on a grander scale (which is not fair comparing ecw to wcw) then obviously its goldberg.

 

[Big Sexy]

Fact. I agree on the original statement that Rhyno was always better at playing the part of an intense wrestler. Most people are answering based on who was bigger overall. Thats not the point in question.

Goldberg was bigger overall and more intense. I've seen a lot of Rhyno and his intensity is no where near the level of Goldberg's. Rhyno is like diet Mountain Dew. It might have some similar characteristics but it just isn't the same.

Rhyno defenitely played the role of a untouchable force a lot better.

You mean when he was losing to Kid Kash and Super Crazy? I think a long undefeated streak helps you play the role of an unstoppable force a lot better. You know, because you don't lose.

Bottomline, look who is still in the game. Rhyno. Goldberg's gimick ran out and there wasn't anything else to do with him. Rhyno stilll has intensity while still working with other storylines. Goldberg was just one sided.

Goldberg isn't wrestling because he chose not to. A lot like the Rock chose not to. If Goldberg was still in wrestling I guarantee he would be 10x the star Rhyno currently is.

No matter what Rhyno is thrown into, he still has a presence of power, explosiveness and intensity.

You mean like Goldberg?

His Gore is still one of the most intense moves in wrestling

How? What sets it apart from Goldberg or Edge's spears? Or Monty Brown's pounce? It's basically the exact same thing.

 

[jellmoo]

I think it's all a matter of context, as a direct comparison is very hard to make. Which athlete made a larger impact on professional wrestling? Undoubtedly Goldberg. Being the #1 guy for an extended run of a promotion with a nationwide television deal and a monster payroll trumps being the #1 guy of a much smaller promotion that is struggling to find TV time and is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.

Which played their role better? I would argue that they were about the same. Both were incredibly intense and had a good look. Goldberg played the monster very well, and the booking supported it. Rhino played the crazed bully perfectly.

Which role was actually better? For me, Rhino. It was booked to perfection. It was interesting story, and the character had a clear progression and evolution. It worked because by and large, ECW stars were smaller than WWE or WCW ones. Heyman made Rhino a monster, but a believable one. He got over by having brutal but great matches. Goldberg got over by winning squash matches, which has always struck me as cheap booking. WCW booked themselves into a corner with the undefeated streak, which left Goldberg with few interesting places to go. Both men were horribly booked by WWE.

Who is/was the better wrestler? This one is easily Rhino. Way more versatile in the ring, and works more styles rather than "squash". Goldberg got over by 3 things: 1) His look. 2) His intensity. 3) WCW booking. His in-ring ability is not what did it. Rhino had some of the best matches in ECW. His in-ring talent is a crucial part of what brought him to the top of that company.

Who had the better spear/gore? This is purely opinion, but again I go with Rhino. The gore looked like it folded a person in half and damn near killed them. Not to knock Goldberg's spear, which looked great too. I just always thought that the Gore was more visually impressive. That being said, I would gladly take either over the incredibly weak looking spear that edge does.

Who would be the better main eventer for a high profile company (let's assume a fictional worldwide company with a tv and ppv deal that isn't WWE or WCW)? I have to go with Goldberg. I like Rhino more, but the guy's style doesn't mesh well in a company where the majority of the roster is bigger than him. It worked perfectly in ECW, but failed in WWE (though I would argue it *could* have worked had he been booked better). Goldberg with his look and size would be easier to get over and look more credible as a monster against the rest of the roster.

 

[misterglover]

Oh man...this is one of those threads where the original poster is gonna slant "the evidence" to make his opinion look like the only right answer...

I'll keep mine short, to me Goldberg was a million times better than Rhyno and its not even close. I liked both of them, I was also in the Georgia Dome the night Goldberg beat Hogan and from the arena, on the train & in the MARTA stations everyone was chanting Goldberg the whole city of Atlanta was his that night and I've seen every wrestler since 1978 in person, attended PPV's, house shows back in the territory days and this was the most exciting wrestling event I ever attended... Rhyno never came close to providing half the excitement or energy that Goldberg did. When the guy came out you got goosebumps.... The guy was a star & i for one am tired of the so-called internet know-it-alls who dont give the man his props... Was he the best in ring worker?? NO, but for the character he was given he executed it perfectly....

 

[stryfe604]

Oh man...this is one of those threads where the original poster is gonna slant "the evidence" to make his opinion look like the only right answer...

I'll keep mine short, to me Goldberg was a million times better than Rhyno and its not even close. I liked both of them, I was also in the Georgia Dome the night Goldberg beat Hogan and from the arena, on the train & in the MARTA stations everyone was chanting Goldberg the whole city of Atlanta was his that night and I've seen every wrestler since 1978 in person, attended PPV's, house shows back in the territory days and this was the most exciting wrestling event I ever attended... Rhyno never came close to providing half the excitement or energy that Goldberg did. When the guy came out you got goosebumps.... The guy was a star & i for one am tired of the so-called internet know-it-alls who dont give the man his props... Was he the best in ring worker?? NO, but for the character he was given he executed it perfectly....

the point here isn't that, its the same issue i tried to bring up earlier in an earlier post. everyone agrees goldberg did his job, rhino did his job. you are talking about atlanta the home of wcw going crazy over wcw's top guy. yes they would go nuts. and i don't see the relevance of you've met every wrestler since 1979. my question to you is were you in the ballroom at any point during a rhino match? the crowds went nuts. the point is what you are talking about is location. see i am a goldberg fan, i am a fan of rhino, but eric bischoff booked goldberg in god knows how many squash matches with jobbers for the purpose to build the beast, which it did. rhino piledrived and gored woman through tables without a streak just on pure hatred which built a sadistic monster. in ring goldberg had one gear, rhino could work multiple types of matches. but that only worked for rhino because he was in a land of smaller wrestlers.

oh and one more thing, the grander scale of wcw with it's worldwide ppv's and national television shows helped build goldberg too, while rhino didnt have that luxury. and just to clarify i am comparing wcw goldberg to ecw rhino.

 

[misterglover]

the point here isn't that, its the same issue i tried to bring up earlier in an earlier post. everyone agrees goldberg did his job, rhino did his job. you are talking about atlanta the home of wcw going crazy over wcw's top guy. yes they would go nuts. and i don't see the relevance of you've met every wrestler since 1979. my question to you is were you in the ballroom at any point during a rhino match? the crowds went nuts. the point is what you are talking about is location. see i am a goldberg fan, i am a fan of rhino, but eric bischoff booked goldberg in god knows how many squash matches with jobbers for the purpose to build the beast, which it did. rhino piledrived and gored woman through tables without a streak just on pure hatred which built a sadistic monster. in ring goldberg had one gear, rhino could work multiple types of matches. but that only worked for rhino because he was in a land of smaller wrestlers.

oh and one more thing, the grander scale of wcw with it's worldwide ppv's and national television shows helped build goldberg too, while rhino didnt have that luxury. and just to clarify i am comparing wcw goldberg to ecw rhino.

First by me saying I seen all wrestlers since '79 wasnt to come off like Im better than everyone..it was to say that I've seen Hogan, Flair, Warrior, Sting & even Andre and at his height Goldberg was on that level!! I went to college in Atlanta, but Im from NC & lived in VA, Goldberg was huge all over. I like Rhino Im a wrestling fan so I watch it all and watched alot of ECW but he was a medium fish in a small pond, dont try to change history...Its always cool to look back and say this person was better than they got credit for, I dont care how you slice it Rhino didnt have the appeal to the people, affect on the business or worldwide audience that Goldberg had, the guy became a household name off basically 2 moves and charisma.

This is essentially the same type of argument as comparing Hogan & Flair in the since that Hogan(Goldberg ins this case) is the bigger name, more universally known of the 2 but if you ask a certain section there are those (my self included) that prefer Flair due to charisma & in ring ability. In saying that I mean you cant just say what you like is better, what you prefer is gonna be different then what I like and outta the 2 I prefer Goldberg

 

[Depakote]

Goldberg was a mediocre wrestler at best and given a huge push just because of his look and the desperate situation that WCW was in. There was a lack of viable faces that could take on Hogan and the nWo. The faces that were already there had already worked programs with the nWo and it was getting stale. So they rushed Goldberg up to the main event, fed his ego, and created a monster. That monster ended Bret Hart's career before going on to squander his career in the WWE simply because he wasnt humble and put a higher value on himself than what was actually there. He was a wanna-be Ultimate Warrior, without the charisma and the skill to go along with it. All of his matches lacked emotional depth and were kept short because of his real inability to wrestle or tell a story at any length in the ring. He worked stiff and couldnt sell to save his life. His run was nothing but a string of squash matches. All this guy ever had was the look. The booking covered the rest. I'll never respect Goldberg. He was a man who did very little yet got a whole lot. He didnt do it for the love of the sport or the fans; he did it for the money. He has an inflated sense of self-worth and I'm glad Vince McMahon put him in his place.

Rhino was better in the ring and better on the mic. His look was different. He was shorter and thicker, and his Gore was more believable due to his lower center of gravity. His promos were way more intense. He really looked like he wanted to murder someone. He was much better at portraying his character than Goldberg. The only entertaining thing to ever come from Goldberg was Gillberg.

If Rhino had the cookie cutter big guy look, maybe he wouldve been given top booking in a major promotion because thats the only reason Goldberg ever got a push. He certainly didnt earn it or work for it.

 

[jayteeERA]

Everybody keep saying the streak is what made Goldberg a huge superstar and its true. But with or without the streak the man would of still out shine rhino. Goldberg was talented in that ring. He could do it all, this man had scary strength, this man can do backflips and everything, he didn't needed to talk or do promos, his in ring skills speak for itself.

Rhino and Goldberg played their role very well. But what role drew more? What role got that person to be in a movie or have his own tv show? I not putting rhino down he is a beast rather it be Ecw, WWE, or TNA. If Goldberg was in to be in those brand he would of took the spotlight.

Rhino was a waste in WWE, he only impressed me in 2 matches . Rhino vs edge at KOTR 01 and rhino vs jericho SS 01.

Say what you want about Goldberg. I think every wrestler work hard to do what they gotta do to get there. Goldberg had all the skills, Yeah he did it for the money. But he wasn't the only one.

 

[ali'scomin]

I dont see why there is an argument here, at the time when Goldberg was on top, wrestling everywhere was trying to get as many fans as possible. With that said who looked better on TV, posters or just over all. I'm talking about the performer from a business point of view, one is 6'4", 275, ripped, strong (and stiff) as hell and a former football player. The other is a stocky and greasy, 6'2" 265, in OK looking shape and former nobody. I know Golberg is a terrible wrestler and that being an ex-football player doesn't make you a good wrestler but they are being presented to more than just fans who like to watch good technical matches, its an international audience and we've all seen it being proven time and time again, its not the wrestling that sells tickets.

Golberg was also much more marketable and he was on TV around the world, I saw the match against Hogan with my grandpa in Bangladesh, I was 8 at the time, hadn't come to Toronto yet. When Rhyno wrestled die hard fans watched him on local TV channels. People saw Goldberg and wanted to be him when they saw Rhyno they watched his match until he hit the Gore and then changed the channel (still do).