Evolution was Ric Flair's faction!

[CM Steel]

Evolution will go down as one of the most legendary wrestling factions of all-time. And evolution is the spawn of Ric Flair's original faction the Four Horsemen from the 1980's. Evolution is suppose to be Triple H's faction with him being the head of this newer version of the four horsemen. But Ric Flair will get credited for having the gimmick of evolution being spawned off of him. Triple H & Ric Flair played the mentor roles for both Dave Batista & Randy Orton. But Triple H called all the shots.

Now Triple H was the leader of another wrestling faction that was D-Generation-X after Shawn Michaels retired for four years with a serious back injury. So Hunter was given another one that was his to lead alone. But really it was Flair's! Triple H was even mentored by the Nature Boy at one point. And the whole "style'in & profile'in" image wasn't truly in Triple H's character. Hunter's more like how his friends Hall & Nash are when they were apart of the nWo in WCW. And after evolution broke-up finally in the end, it was Ric Flair who was the last man standing after being stabbed in the back by Triple H.

So in that sense, evolution was Ric Flair's group! Not Triple H's. Your thoughts?

 

[Earth_2_Superman]

Nope, it was Triple H's group.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

If you believe that The Horsemen were JJ Dillon's group then sure Evolution was Flair's. But Dillon was not the Horsemen and so Flair was not Evolution. You can argue that Evolution was a new way to package the Horsemen and that's probably true, but there is no doubt it was Triple H's group. While Triple H made himself a main eventer prior to Evolution, it was his time with Evolution that made him the top guy in the business.

 

[SSJPhenom]

And the nWo was Bischoff's group, the Corporation was Test's group, and the Hart Foundation was Davey Boy Smith's group. Give me a break.

Evolution was Trips' baby. Everyone has said it in every interview or documentary in which Evolution is mentioned. Flair said that it was his idea, Orton said that it was his idea, and Batista said that it was his idea. I'll admit that it was definitely modeled after the Four Horsemen. Nobody can deny that, however, the fact that all throughout Evolution's run HHH was the top heel in the business and the World Heavyweight Champion should be all the evidence you need to show that Evolution was indeed Triple H's.

 

[Trill Co$by]

And the nWo was Bischoff's group, the Corporation was Test's group, and the Hart Foundation was Davey Boy Smith's group. Give me a break.

Evolution was Trips' baby. Everyone has said it in every interview or documentary in which Evolution is mentioned. Flair said that it was his idea, Orton said that it was his idea, and Batista said that it was his idea. I'll admit that it was definitely modeled after the Four Horsemen. Nobody can deny that, however, the fact that all throughout Evolution's run HHH was the top heel in the business and the World Heavyweight Champion should be all the evidence you need to show that Evolution was indeed Triple H's.

Where in that entire post does it say that this had anything to do with how it came up backstage? Answer: No where.

Fact is, the OP is right... Evolution was Ric Flair's baby. When Ric Flair joined forces with HHH that was one thing, but when FLAIR went and scouted Orton and Batista on his own, that made it Flair's. Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the 3rd Generation Superstar from Smackdown and made him a star. Ric Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the Deacon from Devon's Church and made him an animal. Ric Flair was the one who aided Triple H in retaining a lot of his World title matches.

Being the leader of a stable and being the top member of the stable are two different things. The Nation of Domination is a great example of this because even though The Rock was the top star, he didn't become the leader until he and the group kicked Farooq out. That's a fact.

Evolution, while led on the battlefield by HHH, was in theory the brain child of Ric Flair... sort of as a way for Flair to continue his legacy so to speak.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

The Horsemen was Flair's group. Evolution was HHH's. THAT said; if you ask a fan to name a group HHH has been in - it would be DX first. If you ask a fan to name a group Flair was in; it would be the 4 horsemen. Flair had his last truly great performance 10 years before Evolution was even formed anyway.

I would like to see 4 faces join Flair today and Flair place the Horseman name on them; and he be their manager; until they turn on Flair and become the dominant heel force in WWE; that would be a good use of Flair.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Where in that entire post does it say that this had anything to do with how it came up backstage? Answer: No where.

Fact is, the OP is right... Evolution was Ric Flair's baby. When Ric Flair joined forces with HHH that was one thing, but when FLAIR went and scouted Orton and Batista on his own, that made it Flair's. Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the 3rd Generation Superstar from Smackdown and made him a star. Ric Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the Deacon from Devon's Church and made him an animal. Ric Flair was the one who aided Triple H in retaining a lot of his World title matches.

Being the leader of a stable and being the top member of the stable are two different things. The Nation of Domination is a great example of this because even though The Rock was the top star, he didn't become the leader until he and the group kicked Farooq out. That's a fact.

Evolution, while led on the battlefield by HHH, was in theory the brain child of Ric Flair... sort of as a way for Flair to continue his legacy so to speak.

If you're talking Kayfabe, then yes Flair, on tv mind you, picked Orton and Batista; however, backstage Evolution was HHH's brain child. Flair says that in his documentary and he also says that in HHH's documentary Thy Kingdom Come.

 

[Wolf Pac]

I tend to think of Evolution as both Triple H and Ric Flair's baby rather than just one. Two leaders of two legendary factions coming together to form another memorable faction. It doesn't really matter who led the group, who scouted the talents, what group Evolution was based on, who came up with the idea first. The purpose of the group was to build the future of the WWE while the past and the present groomed and mentored them. Evolution was truly done after Batista left, you never heard anyone refer to Triple H and Flair as "Evolution" anymore. The proud parents, Flair and Triple H, saw their babies grow up to become stars, it started out with Flair and Triple H and ended with Flair and Triple H.

 

[OYDK]

I believe it was in HHH's DVD where he said that after Flair came back to the WWE, there was a period where Flair was depressed because he felt he wasn't the "Nature Boy" anymore and the crowd just wasn't reacting to him like they used to. So HHH decided to have Flair turn heel and basically become HHH's manager/teammate which eventually led to both men picking Batista and Orton to join them in Evolution. HHH was the "World Champion" of the group. Flair always looked to HHH when it came to decisions and did whatever HHH wanted. Evolution was HHH's faction.

 

[CM Steel]

If you believe that The Horsemen were JJ Dillon's group then sure Evolution was Flair's. But Dillon was not the Horsemen and so Flair was not Evolution. You can argue that Evolution was a new way to package the Horsemen and that's probably true, but there is no doubt it was Triple H's group. While Triple H made himself a main eventer prior to Evolution, it was his time with Evolution that made him the top guy in the business.

JJ Dillion was a manager he was never a wrestler, that's the main difference. Flair while in Evolution was both a manager and a in-ring performer in Evolution. And as far as Triple H being billed as "the top guy in the business" that was because of both Stone Cold and the Rock were not active in the ring at that time in the WWE with Steve Austin retired from the ring and the Rock making movies in Hollywood. So don't believe that hype about Triple H.

 

[The Boss]

JJ Dillion was a manager he was never a wrestler, that's the main difference. Flair while in Evolution was both a manager and a in-ring performer in Evolution.

On the contrary James J. Dillion was a wrestler. While he mostly stayed in his managerial roll with the Horsemen, he didn't hesitate to step into the ring from time to time and he certainly wasn't shy about getting involved in the action.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

It was 100% Triple H's group. It was a unique idea, but in the 'evolution' the stable was all about the 'present' as in Triple H. He held the title forever during this era. He was essentially the face of RAW.

It was:
Past = Flair
Present = Triple H
Future = Randy Orton

Then they added Batista as the "muscle/bodyguard" who also became part of the future.

 

[BenChillin]

Fortune. Now that was Ric Flair's faction. TNA has less ups than downs but seriously, I loved those segments and promos. Especially when Ric Flair got iced.

This is one reason I want WWE to buy out TNA's library. We can have the complete histories of wrestlers like Flair, Sting, Foley, and Hogan.

Hate it or not, Foley vs Flair in a last man standing a few years ago was an interesting watch. Flair getting dropped on thumbtacks. Good times.

 

[Judah's Lion]

Where in that entire post does it say that this had anything to do with how it came up backstage? Answer: No where.

Fact is, the OP is right... Evolution was Ric Flair's baby. When Ric Flair joined forces with HHH that was one thing, but when FLAIR went and scouted Orton and Batista on his own, that made it Flair's. Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the 3rd Generation Superstar from Smackdown and made him a star. Ric Flair was the one on camera who went and plucked the Deacon from Devon's Church and made him an animal. Ric Flair was the one who aided Triple H in retaining a lot of his World title matches.

maybe from a television standpoint, Flair took the initiative and sought out the members of Evolution, but that's television.

in reality, according to FLAIR HIMSELF, Triple H came up with the idea. I literally watched his documentary yesterday entitled "Ric Flair: the definitive collection". Ric Flair stated in plain simple English that he was depressed at this point in his life, wasn't sure if he'd ever wrestle again and that there was really not much going on storyline-wise for him at this point. he was in the arena just hanging out and Triple H came up to him and suggested they start a faction together.

even more than that, Ric Flair himself stated that Triple H suggested Orton and Batista be the other two members. so yeah, that's all coming from Flair on his dvd documentary. it's been confirmed by all the members of Evolution in their dvd packages (Batista in "I Walk Alone", Orton in "Evolution of a Predator" and Triple H in "Thy Kingdom Come").

but to several that pointed it out, absolutely YES, the faction of Evolution was 100% taken from the idea of the 4 Horsemen. that is also something that all four guys have said in different dvd documentaries and books and interviews. Triple H is a huge Flair fan and had been since a kid. he loved and idolized Flair and the Horsemen. so he got the idea of the stylin' and profilin' and high class and suits and jets and all that stuff for Evolution definitely from the Horsemen. there was a lot of influence from that out of respect for Flair and his past. and again, that's where you get the name "Evolution" -- it was the past (Flair), present (Triple H) and future (Orton and Batista) of wrestling in one group.

lastly, to JonyBoyUK: "Flair had his last truly great performance 10 years before Evolution was even formed anyway."

to this point, I strongly disagree. Flair had a ton of really enjoyable and even great in-ring performances in his final run in WWE and even one or two in TNA beyond that. his matches at Mania against Taker and Shawn alone disprove this statement. his matches with Foley, both in WWE and in TNA, also show that there was plenty in the tank with Flair in the ring. and he was more than willing to still pay the price. just check out his Cage Matches with Orton and Triple H, his Last Man Standing Match with Triple H and his TLC Match with Edge. just incredible action between the ropes and even better ring psychology. Flair has had too-many-to-count truly great performances, and many have come after Evolution.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Not quite WHile Flair played a much bigger role in Evolution as a working wrestler/manager/teacher than J Dillon (business adviser & ring side manager) did in The Horsemen, Flair was not the Evolution Leader....HHH was and was portrayed as such on TV. Likewise, although Dillon played an important role in many of The Horsemen's most pivotal matches, Flair was the leader of the group, with Tully Blanchard (who brought Dillon in to begin with) clearly the #2 guy. Dillon as manager aided the group, particularly Blanchard, and played a key role in match finishes.

You could argue that Flair in Evolution was kind of a combo of Dillon & Blanchard's roles in the Horsemen (clearly the team ringside manager, clearly the #2 voice behind HHH with an added "mentor role" that went beyond standard manager for the other members, HHH included) but Trips was always portrayed in the storylines as #1 guy.

Funny, but the original idea for The Horsemen didn't come from Flair, but from Arn Anderson, then the youngest and by far least well known member of the group, a veritable unknown compared Ole, Tully, & Flair at the time. To save time during a TV taping it was decided to have the heels, who previously had very little interaction with each other, team up and destroy some prelim guys, then do a group promo basically talking their individual stories, during which Arn remarked in reference to their tag performance that "never has so much carnage been enacted by so few since The Four Horsemen Of The Apocolypse", a line that drew so much heat from the audience fans were talking about It a week later, prompting Arn to suggest maybe the promoters should pay attention. Flair & the others notice too, and the concept, literally on the fly, was born. Yet Arn was never portrayed storywise as the group's leader.

 

[FlairFan2003]

lastly, to JonyBoyUK: "Flair had his last truly great performance 10 years before Evolution was even formed anyway."

to this point, I strongly disagree. Flair had a ton of really enjoyable and even great in-ring performances in his final run in WWE and even one or two in TNA beyond that. his matches at Mania against Taker and Shawn alone disprove this statement. his matches with Foley, both in WWE and in TNA, also show that there was plenty in the tank with Flair in the ring. and he was more than willing to still pay the price. just check out his Cage Matches with Orton and Triple H, his Last Man Standing Match with Triple H and his TLC Match with Edge. just incredible action between the ropes and even better ring psychology. Flair has had too-many-to-count truly great performances, and many have come after Evolution.

Well, I would say that while they may not have equaled his work vs Barry Whyndam (1987), Sting (1988), Terry Funk (1989), Dusty Rhodes (1985-86), Lex Luger (1988 & 1990), Ricky Steamboat (1983 & 1989), Ricky Morton & The Rock & Roll Express (1986), Kerry Von Erich (1984-85), Rick Martel (1985), etc... there were some exceptional last run performances by Flair in WWE.... His W-Mania matches vs Taker & HBK, his two 2005 PPV matches vs HHH, S-Slam "I Quit" Match vs Foley, WWE Title/TLC Match vs Edge (Jan 2006 RAW), his summer 2005 match vs Kurt Angle was exceptional, he wrestled several good matches vs Austin in 2002, a highly entertaining 3 Way Match vs Shelton Benjamin & RVD in 2007, his RAW match in Japan vs HBK was a keeper as well. Some of those could compete for space with his best work from his World Title heyday, the others are just one step below, and all were very good, among the best WWE was offering at the time.

 

[FlairFan2003]

And the nWo was Bischoff's group, the Corporation was Test's group, and the Hart Foundation was Davey Boy Smith's group. Give me a break.

Evolution was Trips' baby. Everyone has said it in every interview or documentary in which Evolution is mentioned. Flair said that it was his idea, Orton said that it was his idea, and Batista said that it was his idea. I'll admit that it was definitely modeled after the Four Horsemen. Nobody can deny that, however, the fact that all throughout Evolution's run HHH was the top heel in the business and the World Heavyweight Champion should be all the evidence you need to show that Evolution was indeed Triple H's.

First of all, it doesn't matter who's idea it was backstage, that's irrelevant. Arn Anderson was the driving force behind making The Horsemen a faction based on crowd reactions to a promo he did but at not time was he "The Leader" of The H-Men, on screen in the storylines Flair was the #1 guy. In Evolution, no matter who originally booked it, HHH was portrayed as the #1 guy.

 

[FlairFan2003]

On the contrary James J. Dillion was a wrestler. While he mostly stayed in his managerial roll with the Horsemen, he didn't hesitate to step into the ring from time to time and he certainly wasn't shy about getting involved in the action.

To be fair, Dillon had a short and fairly nondescript career as in ring performer, and by the time The H-Men hit he was well retired. He was very active interfering in matches, and did climb in the ring for a few matches in 1987 (the first War Games being the most important) but he was never portrayed as an active wrestling part of The H-Men, same way Bobby Heenan was never portrayed as an active wrestling part of The Heenan Family.

 

[FlairFan2003]

If you're talking Kayfabe, then yes Flair, on tv mind you, picked Orton and Batista; however, backstage Evolution was HHH's brain child. Flair says that in his documentary and he also says that in HHH's documentary Thy Kingdom Come.

Yes, but even on TV the original pairing was portrayed as HHH idea, he had goaded Flair for weeks about "losing it" and when they united (when Flair turned on RVD) it was portrayed as HHH had convinced Flair that he needed to turn heel to regain his edge, and once he did HHH wanted him to teach him how to be "the greatest world champion" the way he had been in heyday. The whole idea of them as a team was clearly portrayed on screen as HHH's idea. It was unclear going forward if they two of them acting together or if Flair alone was responsible for the expansion, the final pieces that created The Evolution concept, but the original plot twist with Flair's heel turn to mentor HHH was portrayed as HHH's idea which Flair rebuffed early on then signed on for.

Besides, who created the idea backstage makes no difference, that's like saying The Horsemen were Arn Anderson and Dusty Rhodes group, people see the guy most associated with the leadership role based on how the storylines progress on TV and that was HHH in terms of The Evolution, it was Flair in the H-Men

 

[FlairFan2003]

This is one reason I want WWE to buy out TNA's library. We can have the complete histories of wrestlers like Flair, Sting, Foley, and Hogan.

Those guys did so little in TNA (outside of Sting & Kurt Angle) that lacking the TNA footage really doesn't hurt any career retrospectives at all.

 

[Judah's Lion]

Well, I would say that while they may not have equaled his work vs Barry Whyndam (1987), Sting (1988), Terry Funk (1989), Dusty Rhodes (1985-86), Lex Luger (1988 & 1990), Ricky Steamboat (1983 & 1989), Ricky Morton & The Rock & Roll Express (1986), Kerry Von Erich (1984-85), Rick Martel (1985), etc... there were some exceptional last run performances by Flair in WWE.... His W-Mania matches vs Taker & HBK, his two 2005 PPV matches vs HHH, S-Slam "I Quit" Match vs Foley, WWE Title/TLC Match vs Edge (Jan 2006 RAW), his summer 2005 match vs Kurt Angle was exceptional, he wrestled several good matches vs Austin in 2002, a highly entertaining 3 Way Match vs Shelton Benjamin & RVD in 2007, his RAW match in Japan vs HBK was a keeper as well. Some of those could compete for space with his best work from his World Title heyday, the others are just one step below, and all were very good, among the best WWE was offering at the time.

totally agree. and for the record (not that I think you were implying that I said this) I was NOT suggesting that his final run in WWE -- and certainly not in TNA!! -- was of the same caliber as his amazing stuff in the NWA and WCW with the names you mentioned. I was simply disproving the point that he never had another good or great match, moment or feud after 2002. I personally think that is a ridiculous and not-well-thought-out statement.

you didn't mention it specifically or respond to it from my first post, but have you ever seen his Cage Match with Randy Orton from Taboo Tuesday? it was freaking amazing!! like seriously, maybe a close second only to Bret vs. Owen at SummerSlam. the storytelling and brutality were spot on perfect. worth checking out if you've never seen it, but judging by your name, my guess is that there's not too much Flair you haven't seen.