Everyone better as a heel?

[JJYanks121]

A common theme I perceived while navigating these boards is the love of heels. Now obviously, internet wrestling fans can appreciate the work and effort that goes into somebody portraying a heel, but it seems this respect and admiration has gone too far.

What I mean is that all too often there are threads about performers and these lines are muttered ad nauseum:

"he is better as a heel"
"they should turn him heel"
"he is stale as a face"
"he NEEDS to be a heel"

While I agree that some people have done better work as heels, it must be pointed out that be a heel is actually the easier trade. To get a crowd to love you can often be difficult, but to get a crowd to hate you can be as simple as picking on a crowd favorite or the crowd themselves.

It is great that some people thrive as heels, but what I want to know is why EVERYONE seemingly has to be a heel. It is to the point of absurdity when you come on the boards Monday night and there were some hoping Triple H would turn on his best friend and ruin his retirement simply because "he's better as a heel" It is ridiculous and it makes me wonder if the IWC prefers ANYONE as a face.

My question is: Is there anybody that you prefer as a face? To qualify this statement, let's try and keep this relatively current and let's keep it to guys who have been both face and heel. Also, as long as it doesn't get too far off topic, perhaps enlighten me on the obsession with heels and why everyone should be a heel. At the risk of being too sarcastic, if the IWC had its way, there would be no babyfaces. There would just be a lot of bad guys running around killing each other.

If you want to even take it further, break down the WWE main event scene and tell me who should be heel and who should be face. Let's get some opinions going and I'm really interested to see who some of you actually prefer as faces.

 

[Ferbian]

hmm.. tough one with the main question "Is there anybody you prefer as a face" no matter how much I loved this guy, I have got to say Shawn Michaels hands down my favorite Face character, no matter how awesome the promos with D-Generation X as a heel, and how much heat he could get (like the time he wrestled the British Bulldog in England for the European title, boy did he get heat) but even if his promos were awesome with D-Generation X, he still did the one thing that characterized a face if you ask me, and that was entertain you in ways that made you laugh, made you cheer the guy, and made you absolutely love him no matter how much of a jackass he could be.

An other guy I think fits the face character so much better is Christian, I've never really gotten Christian as a heel, at least not in the singles competitor situation, when he was tagging with Edge it was obvious he was a good heel, again as mentioned above, cause of the funny antics, and because, he had Edge, one of my favorite heels to back him up and make him seem more heel like, but as a singles competitor, Christian is an awesome face, now, in the past, and definitely in the future.

Now I know you said to try and keep it current, but I simply cannot leave out Eddie Guerrero, Eddie was a good face, and I loved his temper problems when he was doing the Latino Heat thing, cause he could really, really get angry, especially during the segment with Chyna backstage where they argue whether Eddie really cared more about the Intercontinental championship rather than Chyna.
On the other hand, like Ric Flair, beloved although his heel antics, and he was still referred to as a face during that time with his "Lie, Cheat, Steal" and I must admit, anything Eddie did as a face, was absolutely brilliant, great technical wrestler, absolutely great entertainer, and would've definitely been more than just a 1 time world champion had he been alive today.

And onto why the obsession with heels, while I do agree coming off as a heel is not exactly the hardest thing in the world, just make them boo you, although it takes skills to get a proper boo out of the crowd, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Triple H, Chris Jericho and definitely Batista (as of late) can do that, and I'm gonna tune this down to just 2 names, Triple H and Randy Orton has / had the ability to use their heel momentum to turn themselves faces, and make them absolutely beloved by the crowd as you see Randy Orton being right now, and Triple H in 2002 after his quadriceps tear.

And to top it off, Triple H and Randy Orton despite being hated to the bone, could get a respected cheer out of anybody just like Chris Jericho still to this point has fans chanting "Y2J", and that is what to me, proves that this guy, this superstar, has the potential, or has already proved / reached the point of being perhaps one of the greatest heels of all time, when you can get the respect of the crowd to sit down, listen to you, and boo the living hell out of you for the most of the crowd, but hear those 5 fans in the front chanting "RKO", "Y2J" or "Triple H" then you're onto something if you ask me.

And just to end it, I don't think that everybody should turn heel, there are just characters that we all know works or worked better as a heel, would become fresher with a heel turn, and with a heel turn, could have the potential to reach the above mentioned point of hatred, just look at Triple H, had he continued being face throughout 2002 to 2005 where he was with Evolution, we could've missed out on one of the greatest factions, greatest feuds (cause I absolutely loved Shawn vs Triple H) and greatest heels of all time.

And.. (yes I know I'm dragging this out, sue me) you ask, if we want to, break down the main event scene to who should be face and who should be heel, I must quite honestly say, keep it like it is right now, cause I like the dividing they're doing right now, although I must admit I wouldn't mind seeing Edge have remained heel, Triple H make a heel turn, and Chris Jericho perhaps making a face turn at some point again.

 

[Sharpshooter51]

Ok, I am going to take this and run with it, at least with a few of my preferred performers:

CM Punk

I LOVE CM Punk's heel work, I will be the first to say that. It's amazing. Also, I'm a huge fan the Straight Edge Society. I happen to love Punk because I happen to be Straight Edge in real life and I agree with a lot of Punk's comments about Jeff Hardy from their feud. That being said, CM Punk should be a face in PG era WWE. think about it, the top face should be someone who is a good role model to kids.

John Cena

I like John Cena as a face. I am a 21 year old heterosexual male and I like John Cena as a face. I just think he needs to be booked less like SuperMan and more like a typical face. His face promos can be good at times, and I think his recent ones with Dave Batista were fairly good. We just need to stop judging everyone against the Rock.

Edge

Edge, if I were booking WWE, would be a comedy face [see 2002 feud with Kurt Angle], who would win midcard titles and have occasional stints in the Main Event but he would NEVER touch a World Title. I never got the big deal with Edge...that's just my opinion.

Christian

I'd keep Christian with the face character he had as WWECW champion. I love the character.

Randy Orton

Heel or Tweener, but never face. I like the idea of a psychotic sociopath on the verge of snapping every minute.

Matt Hardy

I think Matt should be a heel. Remember the Mattitude Era. Matt showed some mic skills then and I think that something like that could put Matt in a short term Main Event picture that could lead to him winning one WHC/WWE Title. Then he would fade back into the midcard.

Chris Jericho

Also another heel. I love his heel work and think that he should be a main event heel around the world title picture.

Dave Batista

I am sold on Dave as a heel after watching his promos against Cena leading up to the mania match. I would keep Dave as a monster heel.





I think the IWC likes heels because heels tend to have more depth to their characters than faces. PG Era faces have been rather bland, but I like bland...just my opinion.

Good thread JJ

 

[axl626]

I think what people mean when they say "so and so should be a heel" is that they want a character change. Some people work well as a heel and some as a face. It also depends on the era they're in. As much as I find him boring, Cena and his character work well as a face in this era but I kind of feel that the PG era, which has been running in some form since around 2006 and really since Cena became WWE Champion, will soon run its course (maybe by 2011 or 12) and we will soon be in the next one with Orton as a true face of the company, whatever "face" means then. Whether this means Cena should change his character to fit this new era and remain face or maintain his character and turn heel is to be seen.

Now certain people work better as a heel, some work better as a face, and some can switch on a dime and be believable. Punk is a guy to me that works better as a heel. They turned Punk and fans love, or hate as the case may be, his character. Sting, even though he's never been in the WWF/WWE, has face written on him. Every heel turn he's ever done has failed as fans just love him. He's the Will Smith of wrestling. Rey's another all time face. And then there are guys like Jericho who are versatile and know what the fans want and how to give it to them or take it away.

And as for me, I'm not really sure what would fit guys like Cena. Is it his character I don't like, his history(as he's been handed most stuff since day 1. Who kicked out of an Angle Slam back then?), or his alignment? I think the guy is probably awesome to be around but I don't like his work in the ring. Just my personal preference and I get why people like him. Would a heel turn work? Maybe, but I'm guessing it would be shoved at us harder than the NWO and WWE would tout it as the greatest thing wrestling's ever done.

 

[BWEEZY2009]

Good thread bro

I agree with a lot mentioned.

In my mind i think it goes back to when you stated we can see the work and dedication it takes to work as a heel. A babyface has more freedom to be himself and less pressure in my mind to get over. For example... Sheamus right now is a guy who is not getting over the way the higher ups want him to get and Randy Orton (who by the way was suppose to stay heel and push Dibiase as the face) is mad over right now.

I personally feel it depends on the guys. I usually like HHH as a heel but right now i think he needs to stay face and put over the younger talent. With Batista i love him as a heel and this new gimmick he has is really getting over with me. The designer jeans/polos/sunglasses/spot light entrance over the Animal works for me every time. Orton i feel is great at both and i don't really care what he is because he's a joy to watch either way. Cena i prefer heel but he is the face of the PG era and I imagine him to stay for a while. Rey... well never mind Rey never will be a heel.

Matt Hardy- Heel
Punk- Heel
Jericho- Heel
Edge- Heel

Now that i think about it.. a lot of the top spot i prefer the guys heel.

 

[thepalaceprince]

I agree with you completely I always finding myslef in one of these heel turn coversations and I always say every1s better as a heel because heels are more interesting characters. Guys that I think can stay face would be hhh- sure his heel runs were great but I think he works just as well as a face
Cena- everyone wants him to turn heel why? Its not gonna make us hate him any less sure maybe for a couple weeks it will be new and iteresting but eventually its still just going to be cena but hes going to be a bad guy. Besides at this point cena is almost as hated as he is liked anyway so hes almost become the ultimate heel
Christian- once again a guy whose heel runs were great but he works as a face mostly because he makes it look easy some guys just seem way to hard to make a connection with the crowd and it fails christian lets his mic skills and charisma work for him another thing that helps him is that hes funny its something thats worked for hhh as well the ability to make a heel look like an ass with a great one liner is underrated.
Kofi- hes fun and energetic granted he was at his best when he had that edge during the begining of the orton feud but hes still strong as a the fun energetic jamaican? West african? his real issue is that he doesnt ever cut promos
Rey mysterio- rey doesnt have the mic skills or the size or attitude to ever work as a heel plain and simple.
the last guy I can think of at the moment would be taker- one thing hes always had going for him is that hes never really exhibited the qualities of a face hell just a couple of weeks ago he laid out four guys to send a message to hbk and people went nuts for it. At this point he could do anything and people would love him and that makes him the perfect face

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

A couple people mentioned that Mysterio is a permanent face and they say that will never change. While I believe you, a heel turn from him would be a hell of a surprise. I wouldn't call it Hogan level but still something very note worthy. It's not like he wouldn't have ammo considering his size and always being labeled as the underdog. The only part this would make it hard to believe is just that, his size would make it hard to see him trying to take out other guys. But at least it would make any ways he cheats to win more understandable.

I'm glad Batista turned heel. This is way better than his character before this turn. They did it the perfect way too kicking it off with destroying Mysterio. That will get anyone instant heat.

I like Jericho better as a face. His promos now as a heel are good, but he was always so funny with his promos as a face. Right now he just goes on and on about how he's better than everyone yada yada.

Edge I think is best as a tweener. He's great at being heel but sometimes they just have him cheat too much it's like is he ever going to win a match clean? But you can't have someone who's "the ultimate opportunist" win clean all the time so he couldn't be a straight face.

MVP is definitely better as a heel. He's not anywhere close to where he was when he was pulling off the great promos he had with Matt Hardy on Smackdown. His face character seems to get fewer and fewer "ballin" chants every week.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

There are only a few superstars that I believe are better faces then heels. They are Christian, Jericho, HBK (Before he retired), and Santino Marella. Jericho and Marella mainly because as faces, they are possibly the best at a comic level. They generate humor with ease. Christian has always been in my mind a Boss Fan Favorite. He is the guy that should have been in the Main Event yearsssss ago. As a heel he was good but they made him out as a bitching crybaby, which got more of a chuckle then actual heat from fans. And HBK...wow can anyone ever really say this guy was a bad guy? No. Not even with his feud with Hogan several years passed at Summerslam. We like him. We can't NOT like him. Kind of like Ric Flair; even as the bad guy we want to cheer him on.

 

[Dagger Dias]

You're right, VERY many people on this forum like heels and we do see far too many posts saying things along the lines of "(insert name here) needs to turn heel!!!!".... that gets a little old. The reason it happens though is that heels appeal more to the demographic of males in their teens and 20's, which is the group that a massive number of the posters on this forum belong to. To guys this age, most faces seem akward and not cool anymore, but the heels appear cooler and edgier, which reminds these same fans of the Attitude Era which the majority of them remember fondly.

I'm one of those fans, yet I also like faces. My favorite wrestler is John Cena, and I get tired of all the endless posts saying they want him to turn heel.... that says it all....

Being a heel is not necessarily easier. Some guys are better at being heels and some are better at being faces. If it was "always" easier to be a heel, then how come some heels can't get any heel heat? Exactly. Perhaps creative should push them as a face instead. Or maybe those wrestlers just suck and will never get over, who knows. The point is that it's not always easier to be a heel than being a face. Really, it is equally easy to get the crowd to cheer than it is to get them to boo. The wrestler could pick on the crowd's city or famous people from there for some cheap heat, but they could just as easily put over the city or famous people from there for a cheap face pop. See? Equally easy. Some wrestlers are better at being a heel, while others are better off being a face. The ACT of being a heel VS the ACT of being a face, that's a different argument.

Is there anyone I prefer as a face? I prefer legends as faces, and I prefer John Cena as a face. For most other wrestlers I have preferred their heel personas over their face personas. However, I do fall into the category of males 15 to 30+ and it's proven that most of us just prefer heels at this age.

Now regarding what JJYanks121 said in the original post about the IWC getting its way and there being no faces.... I got a newsflash for everyone.... that would be BORING!!!! Wrestling NEEDS a face VS heel feud, that's just how it works. "Good VS Evil" will often draw more than "Random cool heel #1 VS Random cool heel #2".

The original post asks me if I could break down the WWE main event scene saying who should be heel and who should be face.... that is honestly a very tough one. As long as there is a top face, and a couple of others who can be moved up in case the top guy gets injured, then the rest can be heels. I'm more or less ok with the setup WWE currently has for their faces and heels in the main event, we have some of both.... although Cena is the only current main eventer that I prefer being a face instead of a heel or even a tweener.

 

[Davi323]

I think it all depends on where a wrestler is more comfortable. I think for someone like Cena, he is a natural face, with his passion for the WWE, supporting the troops, etc, it would be hard to believe that he would be more comfortable being a heel. Then, you look at someone like Chris Jericho, who is just so damn good at making you hate him, that at times its hard to remember that he was a face, and it wasn't all that long ago. Being a successful heel requires a certain attitude towards it, a willingness to thrive off of boos. Having people constantly boo you is not something that everyone can take. Pyschologically, our egos want to be stroked, not struck down. A truly good heel is someone who not only can get past that, but can play off of that negativity and put it to good use. Randy Orton, as much as the fans are now transforming him into a face, is about as natural a heel as I have ever seen. It's like its easy for him. Orton is the anti-Cena.

Some guys just can't pull it off though. I would have problems accepting Kofi as a heel, just based on his personality, I would struggle with Evan Bourne, and Rey Mysterio, because really, how many great heels have their been that were their size? The super talented little guys are simply more useful as faces than heels, because of the whole David/Goliath angle. Deep down, we like seeing little guys against big guys, we love the underdog stories. That only works if the little guy is the face, and the big guy is the heel. You just can't reverse their roles.

 

[jmt225]

I'm definitely feeling Randy Orton as a babyface at this point. There's nothing more I want to see right now than him having a face run, with the current character he has.

I think people don't like certain wrestlers as babyfaces simply because a good amount of babyfaces today are portrayed as kiss asses (i.e. John Cena), rather than bad asses (i.e. Steve Austin). I think Orton has the chance to bring the babyface back to the level guys like Austin and The Rock had it, and even better... he's going to do it with very little to zero comedy.

In fact, thinking about it... during Steve Austin's big face run he was billed as the Rattlesnake. Orton now is billed as the Viper, and he has beautifully incorporated snake like qualities into his in-ring persona, as when he's setting up the RKO. And it's just really, really cool shit fans of all kinds can dig. Nothing to do with the main point, just something I'm now realizing, lol.

Anyway, back to the original point... the main babyfaces of the past few years have been these wannabe comedians who can make Superman comebacks when the time called for it. That's what has turned the IWC off from face characters, and turn them on for characters like Edge's Rated R Superstar, since THAT character was doing all the "cool" stuff, rather than the babyface. There's nothing cool about a grown man telling fart jokes and flashing his big muscles. And every week we would see someone like Edge tell said faces to go fuck themselves and find ways to get the better of him each and every week. Of course we're going to dig Edge more, it's only natural.

So, what I'm getting is that you cannot blame the IWC for admiring heels. Heels attract more to us, grown men, more so than babyfaces in today's industry, because faces are booked to attract kids and young women. But, I think Orton has the chance to be the one guy who's in-between all that, and for that.... I'm really, really excited for his upcoming face run, if he does indeed have one. I just hope WWE doesn't manage to fuck it up.

 

[To Be The Man]

Long time reader and first time poster so I apologize if this first one is a little rough around the edges but here goes . . .

When I first started really watching pro wrestling I would mark out for the faces all the time and really hated the heels. For example, I can remember losing it when Hogan took Miss Elizabeth's high heel to the eye on Monday Night Nitro. With that being said, the advent of the nWo and the Attitude Era made it cool to like heels, and IMO the only people who are going to prefer face characters to heels are the younger, fresher viewers. This is why, IMO, that it is so hard to find members of the IWC that prefer face characters. The IWC is too entrenched in the dirt sheets, spoilers, and gossip to really enjoy the show anymore. Of course we can all appreciate a good wrestling show, but when's the last time any of the IWC watched a RAW or IMPACT without having to analyze it?

But back to the question at hand: "Is there anybody that you prefer as a face?"

IMO, I will always prefer Chris Jericho as the Ayatollah of Rock-N-Rolla, or in other words a face. His heel work is amazing and I would definetly say that he is the best heel in the business with CM Punk a close second, but thinking back to his first debut on RAW with the Millennium Clock and interrupting The Rock, I can honestly say I marked the f*ck out.