Enter Vince Russo: WCW Fights For Every Breath

[SSJPhenom]

It's late 1999 and at this point the WWF is far and away better and ahead of the WCW. Even though WCW had made some very huge very unforgivable mistakes, they were still a huge wrestling company at this time and they were still pulling ratings anywhere from 3.5 to 5.0. So there was still something there that fans wanted to see. There were still characters and performers that fans cared about and wanted to see on a weekly basis. Eric Bischoff is out at this point so all WCW needed was someone that could stop the ship from sinking and get it back to shore with as little casualties as possible. Enter Vince Russo........

On October 5, 1999 both Ed Ferrara and Vince Russo signed with WCW. Top Turner officials thought at the time that they had just gotten the goose that was laying all of McMahon's golden eggs and why not think that? Russo was the head writer for the WWF before he signed with WCW and many of the WWF's major/successful storylines were his ideas. Also, Russo wasn't shy about telling anyone who would listen that Austin, DX, the Rock, 'Taker and Kane, and all of the Attitude Era stuff were all his ideas. He came up with it all and he would do the same for WCW. Let's be honest with ourselves, we're heading WCW and we're not doing great at all. Then, all of sudden, we get the guy who was, basically, Vince's idea machine willing to come over and do the same for us that he had done with the WWF. You, me, and everyone else in that position would sign Russo as well. So, really, Idk if WCW can be blamed for signing Russo. What they can be blamed for is after a few months of continuing to drop in the ratings, losing money, and horrible horrible storylines; not kicking Russo to the curve. See, Vince Russo truly did have some great ideas, however, he more often had very very bad ideas. What was the difference between Russo in WWF and WCW? In WWF the final say always came down to Vince McMahon. McMahon knew what would work and what wouldn't. So he was there to filter out all of Russo's crap for the good. In WCW, though, Russo ran wild. He had his own creative control and could make the final decisions. I'm sure everyone seen the difference.

In WCW, without McMahon to filter through the garbage, all of Russo's ideas made it on the show. Stuff like Ed Ferrara as Oklahoma, a J.R. imitation. Turning Goldberg heel for a brief period. Himself as World Champion. Re-creating the Montreal Screwjob. Having Jeff Jarrett lay down for Hulk Hogan. Singing groups. Pole matches. David Flair marrying Stacy Kiebler. Also, let's not forget the infamous, David Arquette winning the World Championship. Russo's ideas took WCW from worse to even worse. I'm going to talk about this at length when I get to this topic, but do you people who believe that the AOL/Time Warner merger is what killed WCW really think that if WCW was still making 150 million a year that they would've still wanted to get rid of it? Use your brains people.

What's the worse thing that you remember about Russo in WCW? What are some of his 'ideas' that I missed? What do you think was his all time worse idea? Let me know your opinions.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

I've been enjoying your posts on this period in WCW. I have had the Network since Mania and, aside from re-watching Season 1 of Tough Enough, I have been watching mostly 80s and early 90s WWF.

These posts remind me how much I enjoyed the Monday Night Wars. My question is...where would you (and other posters) suggest I start watching from? I watched back then, but my timeline memories are really 86-maybe 94 WWF. Later WWF and all of WCW, for the most part is a big jumble in my mind.

I feel like a kid in a candy store with the Network--I don't know where to begin. I would rather not sit through the less eventful beginnings, or lulls, of the MNW. So, what period would you suggest? Regarding WCW, I am thinking '96 with Hall showing up on Nitro, but I don't know if I want to go that far back with WWF. Didn't it take them a while to get their footing? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Good stuff...thanks!

 

[SSJPhenom]

If you're interested in Nitro, I would start with the shows that took place a couple of weeks before Bash at the Beach 96. Watch those to the end of the year and pretty much anything in 97 was good. Honestly, a lot of 98 was also good, but they definitely started to slip in 98.

As for Raw, I'd start with the Raw after Badd Blood 97 when Kane first came in. From that point all the way through 01, Raw was must see TV. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[MWRedskins]

I'm going to talk about this at length when I get to this topic, but do you people who believe that the AOL/Time Warner merger is what killed WCW really think that if WCW was still making 150 million a year that they would've still wanted to get rid of it? Use your brains people.

What's the worse thing that you remember about Russo in WCW? What are some of his 'ideas' that I missed? What do you think was his all time worse idea? Let me know your opinions.

Firstly, if someone would to ask Eric Bischoff the question you did about AOL/Time Warner, Bischoff would answer, yes because the guys openly admitted that they didnt get it or understand it and didnt want to be known as the wrestling channel...admittedly though losing money did help AOL/Time Warner's decision, but even Bischoff said in a JBL interview that they didnt want WCW.

Now to the real reason i came to this post....Russo, Russo, Russo. you asked what 's the worse thing i remember about Russo...DO i have to name JUST ONE!!?? he's had SO much bad ideas, Bischoff didnt have the best ideas either, but at least he didnt put himself over as much as Russo did....in fact THAT is Russo's worst idea...putting himself over, if i had to guess Vince Russo's win/loss record in WCW, it would be 5 and 0, he beat Ric Flair at least twice, he beat Booker T and i'm sure (if there's other matches) he's won them too!!! i've never seen Russo lose in a match and if he did it was part of a plan (see the Triple Cage).

With that said, Russo had lots of bad ideas, from the world championship changing hands, to actually THINKING about putting the title on Tank Abbott!! uh, you have Benoit, give HIM the title. or giving the belt to himself or a skinny actor who's best known as Deputy Dewey. his other BAD ideas were his constant mocking or re-using WWE stories or gimmicks (See Oklahoma vs. Madusa or Oklahoma himself or Screwjob). Sure Russo had good ideas (i actually liked 3 Count and Screamin' Norman), but his bad ideas outweigh his good ones.

 

[AnthonyM4]

WCW was in bad shape before Russo came in. After he came in, he made things worse. He will tell you that ratings went up after he came in. He brags because the week before he started with wcw nitro did like a 2.6 and on his first episode a week later it went to a 3.3. It stayed around that number until he left in January. They never got a 4.0 rating under his care. Let's be honest though. After he left in January, ratings went down because it was just flat out boring. Not even a watchable train wreck. Will you talk about that SSJPhenom. The period between January 16 and April 10? IMO Kevin Sullivan didn't do a good job repairing Russo's damage.

A lot of people say that giving the world title to Arrquette was bad and it was, but almost as bad was giving that fat slob non-wrestler Ed Ferrara the cruiserwieght title! I didn't mind Madusa holding it, but why lose to that fatso? That was a middle finger to the smart fans who like cruiserweight matches. I'm surprised not many people mention that as one of Russo's terrible ideas. Thing is, to Vince titles mean nothing. They are just props and wrestling is fake so "nobody really wins them". That's why there were so many senseless title changes under his reign of terror

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

In WCW, without McMahon to filter through the garbage, all of Russo's ideas made it on the show.

Think Jericho said that line in "Rise and Fall of WCW" documentary. Dont think its that true because both sides had so much rubish at both sides that with or without Mcmahon control stuff would be the same. WWE was ahead and basically already won war so dont think it matters that much. They just continued downfall from before.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

WCW wasn't doing great before Russo came in, but it took a nosedive after he did. To this day, Russo claims to be some sort of genius but I always thought his time in WCW and TNA showed that wasn't the case whatsoever. He may have worked with people, at times, who were geniuses in the business but I never saw that out of him.

Lousy angles, meaningless title reigns, title changes more frequent than even those in WWE at the time, making a C list celebrity the WCW World Heavyweight Champion for roughly 2 weeks, booking himself to win the championship only to throw the belt down in the middle of the ring the next week saying he wasn't a wrestler, the list goes on really but the quality of WCW hit an all time low when Russo took charge.

 

[FromGlasgow]

In Russo's defense Arquette winning the world title was apparently Tony Schiavone's idea which got signed off by Eric Bischoff, Some of his better ideas though was Booker T's push to winning the world title and the New blood factions feud with the millionaires club so at least he was trying but I do agree with Russo being at his best when he had someone like Vince Mcmahon there to filter out all the bad ideas.

 

[Makaveli31]

In my opinion this is where WCW really went off the rails. It was literally unwatchable. We all know Russo was not a fan of in-ring wrestling. He (and his ideas) had to be the focal point of the show hence the unlimited scripted promos and the five minute matches usually with some stupid gimmick attached. The in your face, gratuitous strip club style T and A was off the charts. There were some good ideas mixed in there but for the most part they were juvenile. Even early-90's WWF seemed more adult in terms of just the quality of storyline.

Probably the worst thing about Russo's reign is putting the NWO back together. How unoriginal. This time with Bret Hart and Jeff Jarrett. That lasted less than month. The Bash at the Beach incident with Hogan was another one. All the "worked shoot" style stuff was garbage. The majority of fans didn't understand all the bullshit "smark" stuff going on on the Internet Russo was pandering too. It was just garbage. This is when I considered WCW truly dead. When they started going away from true wrestling which was there calling card and doing a piss poor imitation of the WWF.

 

[Makaveli31]

Some of his better ideas though was Booker T's push to winning the world title and the New blood factions feud with the millionaires club so at least he was trying but I do agree with Russo being at his best when he had someone like Vince Mcmahon there to filter out all the bad ideas.

That wasn't Russo's idea. He was forced to put the title on Booker T. Russo wanted Jarrett.

 

[relentless1]

I've been enjoying your posts on this period in WCW. I have had the Network since Mania and, aside from re-watching Season 1 of Tough Enough, I have been watching mostly 80s and early 90s WWF.

These posts remind me how much I enjoyed the Monday Night Wars. My question is...where would you (and other posters) suggest I start watching from? I watched back then, but my timeline memories are really 86-maybe 94 WWF. Later WWF and all of WCW, for the most part is a big jumble in my mind.

I feel like a kid in a candy store with the Network--I don't know where to begin. I would rather not sit through the less eventful beginnings, or lulls, of the MNW. So, what period would you suggest? Regarding WCW, I am thinking '96 with Hall showing up on Nitro, but I don't know if I want to go that far back with WWF. Didn't it take them a while to get their footing? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Good stuff...thanks!

watch Nitro form May 1996 - March 1999

watch Raw from Dec 1996 - April 2001

 

[d_henderson1810]

I think that, at times, Vince Russo gets a rough time of it.

I actually think that Russo ending WCW is overstated. It was making mistakes long before Russo walked through the door, and it was on life support when he arrived.

The fact is, Hogan and co ended WCW by their "Creative Control" in their contracts, and looking after themselves rather than the company.

I actually enjoyed some of the things Russo did on WCW. The "Powers That Be" storyline was interesting, and I tuned in to see how Russo would screw over someone by booking against them. You didn't know what he had planned next for the talent.

I also though the "Millionaires Club" and "The New Blood" storyline was a good idea, but Hogan and friends refused to put anyone over (over in WWE, the same thing happened with the Invasion, and Russo wasn't even part of WWE then). I think an "established talent" versus "new talent" storyline would work in WWE, (having people like Cena and Orton being attacked by up-and-comers from NXT, for example).

Russo also actually pushed new guys, as opposed to the same old ex-WWE veterans doing main event after main event. Whatever you think of Jeff Jarrett (and whether he should have been champion), it was good having a new heel main eventer, and Booker T finally got pushed, and I doubt that Booker would have been as big as he was if he wasn't pushed by Vince Russo (I think a month before Russo got there, Booker T fought at a PPV as "G.I. Bro", which doesn't scream "main-eventer").

I think Russo cops a lot of criticism (fair and unfair) because he stood up to Hogan, and called him out onscreen. I bet Hogan and friends told everyone, and poisoned Russo's reputation even more. Also, Vince Russo seems like a prick, and hard to get along with, so he has few people jumping to his defence, even when warranted.

Don't forget, Vince Russo was head writer during the "Austin v McMahon" storyline, considered one of the finest storylines in wrestling history, and ended Nitro's ratings stronghold over RAW. I think he was also there when Mankind won the belt on RAW, which also generated ratings. It was Bischoff and his big mouth who got people to turn over to RAW and watch Mankind win the belt, so he buried his own show on that night.

Also, if Russo was ONLY good because Vince McMahon filtered him, then if Vince is SO good at that, why do people complain about storylines now? If Russo was such a dud storywriter, and McMahon was such a good filter, then the current storylines would be brimming with excellence. So, could it be that maybe Russo was a good story writer at some time in his career (I believe he lost it later on, but had it initially).

I think what spelt the death knell for WCW was Hogan, Nash and Hall, and their refusal to put talent over, and that Bischoff wouldn't reign them in, because he was too close a friend to them. There is a principle in business, that the boss needs a level of detachment from the workers (not be indifferent, but keep a professional distance), so that he can make the hard decision rather than be guided by emotion. I think Vince McMahon keeps a professional distance from the talent, and is their boss first, their friend second. Bischoff got it the other way around. Also, Bischoff spent money that wasn't his, and WCW was always destined to fail when it was an investment for Turner, rather than Vince McMahon investing his own money into WWE and making the decisions. As Dixie and Panda Energy showed, relying on another party to fund a wrestling company is doomed to failure.

Look, I am not defending Russo on everything. His TNA stuff was utterly horrendous (e.g. The Johnsons), but I think he gets a worse wrap when he isn't responsible for all of WCW's ills. If his actions ended WCW, then it meant that it was close to death to begin with, before he got there. Besides, the OP himself has mentioned things like the Starrcade '97 main event debacle and other things, none of them having to do with Vince Russo.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I think that Russo doesn't get anything that he doesn't deserve. Sure WCW was in bad shape before he came in, which still to this day puzzles me because he came in in October of 1999. Just 7 months earlier, WCW was still doing great business and still had great ratings. I know I've covered what I feel like made WCW the shit show it became in the end, but to go from, honestly, great to barely alive in just 7 months time is still amazing to me. That's not the point, though, the point of this thread is to show people that Russo did indeed take WCW from bad to worse. That can't be argued against. The company was in bad shape before he took the reigns, but during his time and after he left; the company was in such horrible shape that if it were an animal, we would've euthanized it just to be humane.

So Russo deserves every bit of the crap that he gets from us fans.

 

[AnthonyM4]

Remember on one episode of Nitro when two wrestlers were filmed going over the match and one telling the other "you will cover me for the 1-2-3"? That was another stupid Russo idea. He thought he was being innovative when doing the angle with Buff Bagwell in which the latter exposed the business. He lets La Parka pin him and then goes "did I do a good enough job for you Russo"?

 

[MWRedskins]

A lot of people say that giving the world title to Arrquette was bad and it was, but almost as bad was giving that fat slob non-wrestler Ed Ferrara the cruiserwieght title! I didn't mind Madusa holding it, but why lose to that fatso?

oh yeah i so agree there!! i actually mentioned that in some other Russo post or youtube thing. Russo killed pretty much every championship in WCW...he literally had the TV Title thrown in the garbage...put the Cruiserweight title on talentless Evan, Madusa (re-creating Chyna), then re-did a Chyna/Jarrett feud only had the overweight Oklahoma (Ed) winning the Cruiserweight Championship.

In Russo's defense Arquette winning the world title was apparently Tony Schiavone's idea which got signed off by Eric Bischoff, Some of his better ideas though was Booker T's push to winning the world title and the New blood factions feud with the millionaires club so at least he was trying.

Agree about Russo and Booker T, disagree about the New Blood vs. Millionaire's Club feud, i hated it and it reminded me of an nWo vs. WCW feud. the Club didnt really stand a chance if push came to shove because they were out-numbered. As for it being Schiavone's idea, even if it was, Russo should've laughed and moved on, Bischoff likely signed off on it just because he thought it would be good for publicity, but i'm sure if you asked him if it's a good idea in hindsight, he would admit it failed, Russo however still thinks it was a good idea.

 

[MWRedskins]

I think that, at times, Vince Russo gets a rough time of it. I actually think that Russo ending WCW is overstated. and it was on life support when he arrived.

i think he does get a rough time of it, but it's deserving when you re-watch old WCW PPVs. CrashTV on Nitro is fine since it's selling the PPV, but on PPV, the fans PAY to watch wrestling, give them the matches, not gimmick stuff or consistant run ins or short matches.

The fact is, Hogan and co ended WCW by their "Creative Control" in their contracts, and looking after themselves rather than the company.

i would agree here......if Hogan was around after Bash at the Beach 2000, but by then he was gone and Russo had more control, yet the company died. to me the fault isnt on Hogan. did he help, no, he did major damage to WCW...but Russo did as much damage....to me the damage is on AOL/Time Warner.

I actually enjoyed some of the things Russo did on WCW. The "Powers That Be" storyline was interesting, and I tuned in to see how Russo would screw over someone by booking against them. You didn't know what he had planned next for the talent.

i actually didnt like that and felt it put Russo and the Harris Brothers over more than the actual wrestling talent...i like the idea of a heel authority figure if the guy gets his eventually, but Russo NEVER got his. he always won feuds!! he actually beat and cut Ric Flair's hair and won the World title from Booker T.

I also though the "Millionaires Club" and "The New Blood" storyline was a good idea, but Hogan and friends refused to put anyone over

i thought it had potential....if the group wasnt so large....Also Kidman vs. Hogan just looked so unbelievable a match...i think a better feud for Hogan would've been Hogan vs. Mike Awesome....then Hogan losing actually looks believable. Kidman shouldnt have been a heel either, he was too talented in the ring to be a heel, he should've been elevated to US Champion at that time, but all the NB guys were heels and that really hurt the story for me.

I think Russo cops a lot of criticism (fair and unfair) because he stood up to Hogan, and called him out onscreen. I bet Hogan and friends told everyone, and poisoned Russo's reputation even more.

my criticism on him isnt with Hogan, it's on his love for very short matches. Constant Title changes, gimmick matches with objects on poles or a woman on a forklift and of course, run ins. Almost every Russo match had some type of run in during the match.

Also, if Russo was ONLY good because Vince McMahon filtered him, then if Vince is SO good at that, why do people complain about storylines now? If Russo was such a dud storywriter, and McMahon was such a good filter, then the current storylines would be brimming with excellence.

Dont get me wrong, Russo isnt a dud storywriter. he has come up with ideas i did like and i feel that if he has great characters/wrestlers to work with and another guy to help work with him who'll do the match part while Russo does the story, then he's a fine writer. Russo isnt a dud story guy, just a dud with matches as he feels the fans get bored with them.

 

[d_henderson1810]

i think he does get a rough time of it, but it's deserving when you re-watch old WCW PPVs. CrashTV on Nitro is fine since it's selling the PPV, but on PPV, the fans PAY to watch wrestling, give them the matches, not gimmick stuff or consistant run ins or short matches.


i would agree here......if Hogan was around after Bash at the Beach 2000, but by then he was gone and Russo had more control, yet the company died. to me the fault isnt on Hogan. did he help, no, he did major damage to WCW...but Russo did as much damage....to me the damage is on AOL/Time Warner.


i actually didnt like that and felt it put Russo and the Harris Brothers over more than the actual wrestling talent...i like the idea of a heel authority figure if the guy gets his eventually, but Russo NEVER got his. he always won feuds!! he actually beat and cut Ric Flair's hair and won the World title from Booker T.


i thought it had potential....if the group wasnt so large....Also Kidman vs. Hogan just looked so unbelievable a match...i think a better feud for Hogan would've been Hogan vs. Mike Awesome....then Hogan losing actually looks believable. Kidman shouldnt have been a heel either, he was too talented in the ring to be a heel, he should've been elevated to US Champion at that time, but all the NB guys were heels and that really hurt the story for me.


my criticism on him isnt with Hogan, it's on his love for very short matches. Constant Title changes, gimmick matches with objects on poles or a woman on a forklift and of course, run ins. Almost every Russo match had some type of run in during the match.


Dont get me wrong, Russo isnt a dud storywriter. he has come up with ideas i did like and i feel that if he has great characters/wrestlers to work with and another guy to help work with him who'll do the match part while Russo does the story, then he's a fine writer. Russo isnt a dud story guy, just a dud with matches as he feels the fans get bored with them.

You explain some of your points well, though I don't agree with some of them.

I agree with not liking short matches or run-ins, but WWE has done this too. Dusty Rhodes as booker was famous for "run-in" screwy finishes. Russo isn't the first to do it, but he did admittedly did it too much.

I don't like PPVs with too many run-ins or segments, but I also don't like ones where matches end in countout or DQ, which has happened with at least one match at the last few WWE PPVs.

I felt that "The Powers That Be" storyline was abandoned prematurely, and they never got to the part where he got his. Besides, there have been plenty of wrestling feuds where the heel never gets what he has coming to him (Triple H had plenty in his day).

I think Hogan rotted WCW so much by his presence, that no-one could have saved it. If Vince McMahon at his best was sent to WCW, he couldn't have saved it. The best doctors in the world couldn't save WCW once Hogan ruined it. Hogan lit the match and ran off while WCW burnt.

Like I said, I think blaming Russo for alone destroying WCW is giving him too much credit. If one person's actions alone made WCW go under, then it must have been in a sorry state before he arrived.

No, let's go back to his predecessor, Bill Busch, who never appeared onscreen, and all WCW did while he was there was drive Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko to WWE.

Russo once said in an interview that he would have pushed Benoit and the others, and they would have got opportunities while he was there.

Before Russo was there, the man event talent was Hogan, Nash, Hall, Flair, Vicious, Goldberg,DDP, Sting and Luger. Other than Goldberg and Sting, all the others were as old as the hills.

After Russo, the main event scene was Jeff Jarrett, Booker T and Scott Steiner, guys which made the main event scene seem "fresh". Booker went onto becoming a HoF in WWE, something that may not have happened without Russo giving opportunity.

Kidman got a program against Hogan, and was pushed for a few weeks (until Hogan politicked against him).

Vince Russo putting the belt on himself was a parody of Vince McMahon winning the WWE Title on "Smackdown" a short time earlier. Arquette got mainstream attention for winning the belt, which was Russo's intention (maybe if the mainstream media grew up and mentioned wrestling other in a negative context, it wouldn't be necessary). It was also done to promote the wrestling movie Arquette did.

The Cruiserweight belt on Oklahoma is no more ridiculous than Hornswoggle being Cruiserweight champion (and beating all the other cruiserweights in a gauntlet match, to boot).

Constant title changes- The Rock v Mankind, which was around the same time, changed the belt four times. Jinder Mahal is the first WWE Champion in six months to retain his belt at a PPV (it changed every month between RR and Extreme Rules). Blame this on the fickle fans who get bored with anyone being champ too long. It has happened for years.

What I am saying is, these points you brought up have happened in wrestling for years, both pre and post-Russo, and by most wrestling companies. Russo gets heat because he doesn't have many friends in the industry (his fault) and he crossed powerful people (when he called out Hogan on-air) who everyone is afraid to stand up to. Russo has a lot of flaws, but other factors also played a part in many of these things.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Another reason WCW died was because AOL bought Time Warner, and didn't want wrestling content (the "Attitude Era" in WWE had put wrestling in a negative light in the mainstream).

Also, Bischoff wouldn't stop wasting Turner's millions on "million-dollar giveaways" and KISS, and with WCW losing money, Turner agreed to dump it as an investment.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

If you're interested in Nitro, I would start with the shows that took place a couple of weeks before Bash at the Beach 96. Watch those to the end of the year and pretty much anything in 97 was good. Honestly, a lot of 98 was also good, but they definitely started to slip in 98.

As for Raw, I'd start with the Raw after Badd Blood 97 when Kane first came in. From that point all the way through 01, Raw was must see TV. That's my opinion anyway.

No as far as RAW goes i'd start when Bret Hart turned Heel and reunited the Hart Foundation Post Wrestlemania 13 and into the Summer.

Nitro i would agree with. At least when Hall & Nash show up along with Hulk's turn at BATB.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

As far as Russo's nonsense in WCW goes I think one of the biggest ones was turning Goldberg Heel at The Great American Bash 2000 (horrible Show by the way). Why in god's name he thought turning their biggest star into a hated Heel was a good idea I will never understand.

For some reason I kinda like nWo 2000 with Bret,Hall,Nash,Jarrett,Scott Steiner as I thought it had potential but injuries including Bret's retirement, Scott Hall being let go, and Steiner being a nutcase (I wanna say he was suspended for a bit) pretty much doomed it.

The New Blood had potential but it was a mess from the get go.

Plus there were some awful PPVs not to mention some bad Nitros too. One of the Nitros was the June 5th one before GAB with Russo in a Cage Match with Ric Flair where blood falls from the ceiling on Flair and Russo wins after surviving about 2-3 minutes in the Figure Four.

Great American Bash like I said and New Blood Rising are just all around bad Shows.

 

[d_henderson1810]

There is someone else I blame for WCW's demise- Eric Bischoff

As well as not reigning in Hogan and the NWO, he spent up big with Turner's money on things with little return.

I was in a bookshop one time, and read a chapter from Bischoff's book "Controversy Creates Cash". In this chapter, Bischoff harps on about how he blames the demise on WCW on management not letting him do a PPV called "New Year's Evil".

Bischoff claimed that "NYEvil" would be such a successful PPV, that it would revive the fortunes of WCW. The PPV was to be held on December 31, 2001, and would be a combined wrestling show/KISS concert. There would be a match, then KISS would perform a song, then a match, rinse and repeat. So KISS would perform one of their songs between each match. Bischoff was convinced that this would be a winner.

I'm not going to hang it on KISS. I was a fan, and wore the makeup and had their albums. But that was over forty years ago, back in the 70's. KISS are today a nostalgia act and have a cult following, and not big enough to entice today's audience, many of who weren't born when KISS were big, to pay money to attend or order a PPV, to see matches bracketed by songs by four old guys in makeup.

Now, this was a Bischoff idea, not Russo. Thankfully, WCW went under before the show could ever be done. But it sounded like the idea was rejected anyway, partly by Turner, who was sick of losing money on things that brought little return. Apparently, it cost a lot of money, for example, to get the rights from KISS, and to get Gene Simmons to design a wrestling character called "The Demon", who was played by Dale Torborg, and was scrapped after a few appearances for being a massive failure.

With ideas like this, it is no wonder WCW went under, and others contributed to WCW's demise. Russo wasn't the only one to have bad ideas.

 

[#tamale]

I feel Vince Russo would be quite good writing for reality TV. He knows each and every point reality TV needs to hit in 12 to 20 episodes so people can get emotionally invested.

For wrestling though, he was awful. I agree with his point that the match is not as important as the segment of television. Too many reviewers focus on the match and not the whole segment and how it came across. That's why you see so much of the 50/50 booking. Russo's execution though is awful. His focus is solely on one thing; ratings.

Vince Russo did not have the management skills and the talented roster he had in WWF to make his ideas work in WCW. In the WWF he was only focused on the creative side while Vince and co. were able to handle the day to day operations of the company. In WCW he was put in charge of all things WCW which he had no clue what to do. Russo knew ratings. He didn't understand the PPV market, advertisers, or any other money streams that come along with a television product.

Let's not forget his horrible ideas in the WWF from miscarriage angles, birthing hands, "choppy choppy", and the list goes on and on to WCW with "Oklahoma", "Swerve, bro!", Goldberg as a heel, extreme breaking of kayfabe, viagra on a pole, David Arquette as champion, putting himself as champion, etc.. There wasn't a payoff. It just turned off viewers who either switched to WWF, or gave up on wrestling entirely.

Another reason WCW died was because AOL bought Time Warner, and didn't want wrestling content (the "Attitude Era" in WWE had put wrestling in a negative light in the mainstream).

Also, Bischoff wouldn't stop wasting Turner's millions on "million-dollar giveaways" and KISS, and with WCW losing money, Turner agreed to dump it as an investment.

If WCW was still generating revenue when AOL bought Time Warner they would have kept it on or at least sold it for a high price. Losing millions and millions of dollars will make people want to get rid of your product in a hurry.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I feel Vince Russo would be quite good writing for reality TV. He knows each and every point reality TV needs to hit in 12 to 20 episodes so people can get emotionally invested.

For wrestling though, he was awful. I agree with his point that the match is not as important as the segment of television. Too many reviewers focus on the match and not the whole segment and how it came across. That's why you see so much of the 50/50 booking. Russo's execution though is awful. His focus is solely on one thing; ratings.

Vince Russo did not have the management skills and the talented roster he had in WWF to make his ideas work in WCW. In the WWF he was only focused on the creative side while Vince and co. were able to handle the day to day operations of the company. In WCW he was put in charge of all things WCW which he had no clue what to do. Russo knew ratings. He didn't understand the PPV market, advertisers, or any other money streams that come along with a television product.

Let's not forget his horrible ideas in the WWF from miscarriage angles, birthing hands, "choppy choppy", and the list goes on and on to WCW with "Oklahoma", "Swerve, bro!", Goldberg as a heel, extreme breaking of kayfabe, viagra on a pole, David Arquette as champion, putting himself as champion, etc.. There wasn't a payoff. It just turned off viewers who either switched to WWF, or gave up on wrestling entirely.



If WCW was still generating revenue when AOL bought Time Warner they would have kept it on or at least sold it for a high price. Losing millions and millions of dollars will make people want to get rid of your product in a hurry.

Yeah, because "Dr Heiney", Triple H making love to a dead Katie Vick in a funeral home, or having Trish Stratus bark like a dog were also Russo's ideas in WWE. Oh, hang on, they weren't.

No, instead these were the idea of Vince McMahon, the so-called "filter" of Vince Russo. Like every idea WWE has done since has been better than anything Russo offered.

Maybe a heel Goldberg would have been interesting. It would have set up new opponents, and put a new, fresh twist on the character. I bet if he got paid enough, he would pay a heel, since money is how Goldberg rolls. As the Million-Dollar Man says "Everybody has a price!".

I agree that Russo needed help managing the company. WCW should have provided people to run the day-to-daystuff, and Russo run the shows and book the matches. It's like my late father's business. He was great with customers, but needed someone to manage the books and money going in and out of the business. No-one can do it all on their own, but that was WCW's failing, not Russo's, that he wasn't given help.

Where was Bischoff? He could deal with sponsors, advertisers, etc. He had a production company. But he was probably too busy spending Turner's money, soothing Hogan's bruised ego that someone told him off, or playing with his KISS make-up kit, to help Russo run a company he and Hogan had already run into the ground before Vince Russo got there to give the last rites.

Also, AOL weren't interested in wrestling, and, unless it was making millions, they wanted to dump it. It had been losing money for years, by kowtowing to Hogan and co, Russo's ideas, AND Bischoff spending money that wasn't his. All of them are responsible for WCW's demise, not just Russo.

 

[#tamale]

Yeah, because "Dr Heiney", Triple H making love to a dead Katie Vick in a funeral home, or having Trish Stratus bark like a dog were also Russo's ideas in WWE. Oh, hang on, they weren't.

No, instead these were the idea of Vince McMahon, the so-called "filter" of Vince Russo. Like every idea WWE has done since has been better than anything Russo offered.

Never stated those were great angles either. Those were bad as well. Russo is not the only individual who has had bad ideas. He does happen to be associated with the worst of them though. As bad as WWE can get at times, it was nothing compared to what Russo brought to the table.

Or are we just going to forget the time Goldberg walked out of a match and refused to take a powerbomb from Nash in a "shoot".

Maybe a heel Goldberg would have been interesting. It would have set up new opponents, and put a new, fresh twist on the character. I bet if he got paid enough, he would pay a heel, since money is how Goldberg rolls. As the Million-Dollar Man says "Everybody has a price!".

Maybe, but it didn't work because Goldberg's intentions as a heel were never clear.

Where was Bischoff? He could deal with sponsors, advertisers, etc. He had a production company. But he was probably too busy spending Turner's money, soothing Hogan's bruised ego that someone told him off, or playing with his KISS make-up kit, to help Russo run a company he and Hogan had already run into the ground before Vince Russo got there to give the last rites.

Bischoff was fired to bring in Russo. Then when Bischoff returned he was strictly a creative consultant.

Also, AOL weren't interested in wrestling, and, unless it was making millions, they wanted to dump it. It had been losing money for years, by kowtowing to Hogan and co, Russo's ideas, AND Bischoff spending money that wasn't his. All of them are responsible for WCW's demise, not just Russo.

Which was my point. If a subsidiary is making profits the company will keep you around. It's hard to justify your existence when you are losing around 50 million dollars. People need to understand that noone wanted to distribute WCW on their networks because of the bad taste it left in the mouths of Turner. You are right though. It wasn't the fault of one person. Russo did not help, and further pushed the company into oblivion.

 

[MWRedskins]

I agree with not liking short matches or run-ins, but WWE has done this too. Dusty Rhodes as booker was famous for "run-in" screwy finishes. Russo isn't the first to do it, but he did admittedly did it too much. I don't like PPVs with too many run-ins or segments

i understand sometimes that a run in should occur, but i watched an old episode of WCW Nitro (when Russo ran it) and there was a Hugh Morris match and for some unknown reason, Hugh's dad ran in which was just stupid. and that last sentence is my HUGE issue with him, the Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit Mayhem PPV main event had 3 run ins and ruined a great match.

I think Hogan rotted WCW so much by his presence, that no-one could have saved it.

There was a time though (when Russo first took over) that Hogan wasnt even on TV, so Russo could've saved it...if he didnt have such bad booking...i still dont understand his reasoning for even thinking about putting the title on Tank Abbott.

Like I said, I think blaming Russo for alone destroying WCW.

No, Russo didnt destroy WCW alone....i still put 100% blame on Time Warner/AOL. if they would've sold it to Eric Bischoff and let him either 1) use the tv time or 2) if Eric would've had a tv channel for WCW, then WCW could (key word is could) be alive, just in TNA/GFW shape. i dont blame any person or wrestler for destroying the company, i do blame them for hurting the company and losing the ratings war to WWE...in that case i blame it on Bischoff, Hogan, Nash and Russo in a 25% way...but Time Warner/AOL destroyed it.

Russo once said in an interview that he would have pushed Benoit and the others, and they would have got opportunities while he was there.

if that's the case, why did Russo even suggest giving the title to Tank!!?? when Souled Out came and there were injuries to both Bret and Jarrett, Russo should've given the title shot to Benoit and Sid and let them have a great match, then the next day go with Benoit as Champion (who might've stayed if Russo was still there).

Kidman got a program against Hogan, and was pushed for a few weeks (until Hogan politicked against him).

i just never liked that story with him and Hogan and felt Kidman should NEVER turned heel and should've chased the US title, Hogan should've feuded with Mike Awesome.

Vince Russo putting the belt on himself was a parody of Vince McMahon winning the WWE Title on "Smackdown" a short time earlier. Arquette got mainstream attention for winning the belt, which was Russo's intention (It was also done to promote the wrestling movie Arquette did.

Arquette winning the belt was just stupid, if they wanted to promote the movie, they should've let Arquette run the show for a night or something and let DDP hold the title....as for Russo doing a parody of McMahon, the big difference is McMahon looks the part of a champion at least. Russo doesnt look like he can beat a guy even Norman Smiley....Vince McMahon, however, looks like he could beat some midcard guy....plus when McMahon gets in a feud, he usually loses in the end of it. Russo though retired Flair.

The Cruiserweight belt on Oklahoma is no more ridiculous than Hornswoggle being Cruiserweight champion (and beating all the other cruiserweights in a gauntlet match, to boot).

dont get me wrong, Hornswoggle as champion was stupid, but at that time, the title was pretty much in RIP mode....with that said, Swoggle was a small guy and did make a weight limit, but Oklahoma was 1) A mocking of JR and 2) he was overweight.

Constant title changes- The Rock v Mankind, which was around the same time, changed the belt four times. Jinder Mahal is the first WWE Champion in six months to retain his belt at a PPV (it changed every month between RR and Extreme Rules). Blame this on the fickle fans who get bored with anyone being champ too long. It has happened for years.

as for Rock and Mankind...firstly that was Russo's booking...BUT at least both those guys were in a red hot feud...there was no need for the title runs of...1) Jarrett...2) Flair.....3) Vacated to Jarrett.....4) Nash wins.....5) Nash gives it to Flair....6) Jarrett. i'm ok with a title change if it makes sense, Mankind deserved his runs and the feud with the Rock was so great...but Nash and Jarrett wasnt very hot...as for the Mahal run after the other runs, i felt that was stupid too...AJ should've kept it and lost it to Bray in the Chamber. and i hated Orton winning the belt. i'm not saying McMahon is the best booker in the world, he has his issues too, but there are times when he will let a guy keep a belt for a while (like CM Punk). Russo though (in WCW) did alot of hot shooting the WCW belt..even when Booker T. was champion and i really didnt like getting the title off him like they did because i felt he was a red hot type of champion at the time.