Eight year old tasered by police

[LSN80]

I'm not normally one to pile on and accuse the police of brutality and crossing the line, though I'm aware that it happens all the time. Most of it, I believe, is simply in the process of doing their jobs. Protect and serve comes to mind when I think of that. However, I find the actions of these police to be without defense, and I'm surprised Todd hasn't re-emerged to start this very thread.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/pierre-police-taser-child/

In an incident from last October, police responded to the scene of a South Dakota home, from where the babysitter had called the police. The eight year old girl, who weighed 70 pounds, was brandishing a knife. This was not a point of contention, as the mother, police at the scene, and the police chief all believed the story that the babysitter told. The point of contention is the actions of the four police officers, all named in a lawsuit filed by the girl's mother, Dawn Stenstrom. While Stenstrom and her lawyer aren't contesting the fact that the police coming to the home being appropriate, their problem is with the actions of the police officers upon arrival. According to the lawsuit:

"Police warned the 8-year-old they were going to tase her, and
within seconds, an officer fired darts from the electroshock weapon into the chest of the 70-pound girl, according to a lawsuit filed by the girl's mother. The force of the electricity shot through her body, lifted her, and threw her against a wall. After the officers had stunned (the girl) into high voltage submission, they pulled the fish-hook like Taser darts from her chest, gave her emergency medical attention, bandaged the holes left by the razor-sharp hooks, and called the ambulance."

While mother Dawn Stenstrom believes the police used excessive force, former police chief of the city of Pierre, South Dakota, Robert Grandpre, believes that tasering the young girl may have saved her life.

"Given the circumstances facing the officer at the time, it appears from the report that deploying a Taser was the best viable way to defuse the situation."

The lawyer for the Stenstrom's, Dana Hanna, holds a different opinion:

"That's bullshit. Four trained police officers surrounding a 70-pound, 8-year-old Indian girl should have used less risky tactics."One distracts her, another grabs the girl's arm. That's what they should have done," Hanna said. "She had a kitchen paring knife, but hadn't cut. She was a kid throwing a tantrum. They should have made an attempt to grab the kid, not use a weapon to throw her into a wall. A Taser's not meant to kill, but it does kill. Many people have died after being hit by a Taser by cops. It never should be used on a little child. She certainly wasn't presenting a danger to officers. I don't fault for the police being there because they were called. They were there. But what happened while they were there is why I'm upset."

A two month investigation that was independent of the police department ruled in favor of the officers, however. The South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigation ruled in December that the officer had acted appropriately.

I'm no expert on policies and procedures for using a taser, but doing so on an eight year old girl seems excessive. Yes, she had a paring knife, but it's a small kitchen knife with a plain-edged blade, mostly used for peeling fruits and vegetables. The likelihood that the girl could have done any damage to herself or others is almost negligable, but I understand that the police can take no chances. Still, as the attorney for the family suggested, surely there was a less violent way to diffuse the situation, I believe.

The family is suing for $100,000 in pain and suffering, though the city is refusing to settle, and the plaintiffs hope it goes to a jury. Said Patrick Duffy, co-counsel for the plaintiffs:

"Her pain and suffering is going to be of that type that a jury will have to tell us what it's worth. Part of that is going to be a reflection of the fact that you're not supposed to use a Taser on a kid. I don't know of too many cops that don't know that. I hope it goes to trial."

This actually was a story from almost a year ago, but it's re-appeared in the news as another young girl was recently tasered by police. That, and the case is going to trial, with the parents suing for emotional pain and suffering, excessive force, and physical pain suffered by the girl that night.

Despite the ruling of the South Dakota division of Criminal Investigation that the police acted appropriately, do you believe the 8 year old girl should be tasered?

If you agree the officers acted with excessive force, what type of punitive damages should be awarded?

All thoughts and discussion on this topic are welcome.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

The first thought I had was if 4 cops need a taser to subdue a 8 year old girl with a taser then they really have no business being cops. Its an 8 year old with a knife used for peeling vegetables, since I've seen a single cop subdue full grown men with a weapon(without using a gun or taser) there is no reason why 4 cops shouldn't be able to subdue a second grader without using a taser. Either their training is severely lacking or they make bad judgement calls, it doesn't matter the reason but they obviously aren't trained enough to be a police officer if whipping out darts and a taser is the first thing they go to.

There was no good reason to taser the girl, the cops most certainly used excessive force, all 4 cops deserve to have their badges away and a $100,000 lawsuit is fairly reasonable in this case. The kid could have died from cop negligence so the lawsuit is actually pretty tame considering.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Policemen are human and, even while trained to handle difficult and dangerous situations, occasionally are guilty of bad judgment and bad decisions. No question about that.

Still, they're constantly in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" position. It's so easy for us to second-guess their actions, especially since we aren't in danger when reading about the incident in question..... and we aren't responsible for others who might be in danger, as the police are.

In this case, while the facts seem to support the idea that the cops overreacted with the taser, I keep thinking if they tried to distract the kid, who is as volatile as an 8-year old would be, and the kid wound up stabbing herself or someone else, the mother and the media would be screaming about the incompetent cops who allowed her poor child to get hurt.

And if the kid managed to die from a self-inflicted stab wound, we would watch as the mother filed a lawsuit against the police for far more than $100,000.00

 

[Jan]

The first thought I had was if 4 cops need a taser to subdue a 8 year old girl with a taser then they really have no business being cops. .

This a 1000 times.

..... and we aren't responsible for others who might be in danger, as the police are.

Others who might be in danger? It was a kid. 8 years old. C'mon....

 

[Slash-LN]

While I'm of the belief that this was excessive force I believe Sally has a good point.

Even if they distract her and try to sneak around to remove the knife if they fail at that she could hurt herself or she could hurt one of the officers.

The officers would then get negative responses to that.

I don't know the setup of the house so I don't know if one of them could have sneaked up and grabbed the knife.

Either way though I feel like it was wrong to use such force.

 

[Reflection]

It was a fucking 8 year old... They could have talked to/persuaded her for a while and she would let go of the knife. That should always be the first approach. Instead I'm guessing they chose to go all movie-like, yelling "DROP YOUR WEAPON! GET DOWN ON THE GROUND!! I'M GONNA TASE YOU!!!" and surrounded by all the policemen yelling at her might have moved her in a temporary state where she didn't know what to do and only stood there. Even if she was still brandishing the knife around, one of them could have distracted her while the other grabs/tackles her, like the cops did back in the day. Using that much force on a child is pathetically cowardly, especially when they had four times the numerical advantage. Tasers should only be used in certain cases, like when the suspect is 6'+, 200+ lbs and is coming to attack the policemen... Instead, it has simply become a tool to make their job too easy and invoke a sense of fear among their victims... sorry, suspects. If those cops are given a shot from that each, they will think before misusing it again.

 

[Akhilleus]

If those cops are given a shot from that each, they will think before misusing it again.

I can't speak for every department in every single law enforcement branch in the United States, but it's well known that the majority of branches do force officers to experience what it is like to be tased (or pepper sprayed) before they are allowed to use that weapon. I know my local police academy does it to their recruits right then and there.

I've spoken to a couple of ATF Agents, and they said it's very highly encouraged for all agents to get shot with it at least once in order to know what it feels like, and it's for that very reason of what you said...so they know the pain, they know the consequences of it, and they won't use it unless they feel they absolutely have to. Shooting a taser is just about the same as shooting a gun as far as red tape and paper work goes. If an incident goes down you're going to have to explain it in great great detail, and trust me internal affairs will try their best to find something on you.

Could they have gone about it another way? I'm sure. But the thing is I wasn't there. I don't know what the house was like, or where the girl was positioned. Maybe the officers couldn't get to her cleanly without risking a move. It's a completely unpredictable situation, and I don't have even professional experience in those situations to judge whether or not the officers made the right decision. To say though that cops have the mindset of "tase first ask question later" along with saying that they do it because they're just lazy is a little bit insulting. I highly doubt any of those four officers just tased an eight year old little girl because that's how they get their kicks and giggles. It was probably the last thing they wanted to do, but the clearest possible solution at the time.

And obviously all four officers agreed that's what they would do if they absolutely needed to, and for me that's enough heads together to decide what is the right thing and the wrong thing to do. We don't know the situation, and therefor we can't judge if it was wrong or right. But the people who are professional there for the sole reason of judging these things made the decision that the officers made the right decision, and that is enough for me.

 

[Slash-LN]

I can't speak for every department in every single law enforcement branch in the United States, but it's well known that the majority of branches do force officers to experience what it is like to be tased (or pepper sprayed) before they are allowed to use that weapon. I know my local police academy does it to their recruits right then and there.

I've spoken to a couple of ATF Agents, and they said it's very highly encouraged for all agents to get shot with it at least once in order to know what it feels like, and it's for that very reason of what you said...so they know the pain, they know the consequences of it, and they won't use it unless they feel they absolutely have to. Shooting a taser is just about the same as shooting a gun as far as red tape and paper work goes. If an incident goes down you're going to have to explain it in great great detail, and trust me internal affairs will try their best to find something on you.

Could they have gone about it another way? I'm sure. But the thing is I wasn't there. I don't know what the house was like, or where the girl was positioned. Maybe the officers couldn't get to her cleanly without risking a move. It's a completely unpredictable situation, and I don't have even professional experience in those situations to judge whether or not the officers made the right decision. To say though that cops have the mindset of "tase first ask question later" along with saying that they do it because they're just lazy is a little bit insulting. I highly doubt any of those four officers just tased an eight year old little girl because that's how they get their kicks and giggles. It was probably the last thing they wanted to do, but the clearest possible solution at the time.

And obviously all four officers agreed that's what they would do if they absolutely needed to, and for me that's enough heads together to decide what is the right thing and the wrong thing to do. We don't know the situation, and therefor we can't judge if it was wrong or right. But the people who are professional there for the sole reason of judging these things made the decision that the officers made the right decision, and that is enough for me.

I know they do this where I live too. When I did jury duty we went to the county jail and got a tour and stuff and they showed us the tasers. They allowed jury members to be tasered if they wanted to feel what it was like but there were forms and stuff you had to sign and if you had certain medical conditions you couldn't do it.

No one in our group did it though.