Egalitarianism

[X]

Egalitarianism is defined as a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights

Fan of it?

By that I mean, do you agree with the idea that all people are equal? Or are you more of a Nietzsche fan, believing in Übermensch?

With Egalitarianism we have two different schools of thought in modern political history; that of democracy, and that of socialism. Both systems operate under the idea that every citizen is equal, but they go about it in different ways. Most socialist nations (and communist for that matter) apply the egalitarian philosophy to not only their political/social systems, but also to their economic systems.

*Note: This thread has been moved to the Cigar Lounge, so no spam please. The responses were simply too good to leave it in the Bar Room.

 

[Dave]

I'm not really sure. I think that the inequalities between people and social groups should be overcome but I also think that some inequalities are a good thing, in some ways. I mean, in the UK, plenty of people face social and health inequalities but most of it is their own fault. I think that people should have something to shoot for and that Egalitarianism is the first step towards a Communist Utopia and I am quite Conservative person. Just my opinion though.

 

[X]

Democracy/republics are all egalitarian systems as well Dave. Communism is just applying those egalitarian ideas to economics instead of just government, like we do. The right to vote is egalitarian.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Shouldn't this be in Chit Chat? Egalitarianism is a very broad concept. Do I think we should be allowed to earn a little extra for ourselves if we work extremely hard and forgo some things? Yes, I do. Do I think that people should be able to live comfortably off of their rich families even if there's nothing extraordinary about them relative to the rest of the population? FUCK NO!!!

There are a shitload of people just like me (in terms of mental ability), living the life that I would love to live, and the only reason they get to live it is because their parents were more financially responsible (or financially luckier) than mine. Right now, I would love it if I could earn a PhD in Economics from the University Of Chicago. I personally think I'm capable of the work load for a PhD, and am aware of how tough it would be. But, what stops me? I don't have enough money. Man, what I would give to be able to devote myself to studying Economics without having to worry about housing and feeding myself!

All right, my rant is done.

 

[Loveless]

Fan of it?

By that I mean, do you agree with the idea that all people are equal? Or are you more of a Nietzsche fan, believing in Übermensch?

With Egalitarianism we have two different schools of thought in modern political history; that of democracy, and that of socialism. Both systems operate under the idea that every citizen is equal, but they go about it in different ways. Most socialist nations (and communist for that matter) apply the egalitarian philosophy to not only their political/social systems, but also to their economic systems.

Interesting, I'm not convinced the two are mutually exclusive in terms of philosophy. Consider that we live in an egalitarian society but inside that society exists a meritocracy. Only when it comes to the vote are all people considered equal.
As for what I'm a fan of... I love Nietzsche but applying that philosophy en masse creates a cannibalistic, dog eat dog society that could send us back to the dark ages. At the same time, a purely egalitarian system is unsustainable for the same reason pure communism is.
I'm increasingly of that belief that you have exert your force on this world or become a slave to it. It's also not as if every guy could become that Omega male, so I guess there would be a natural order. But no, when you look back over history to the 1-man reign, all it ever caused was war.
We live in a ever balanced society that has incorporated both, allowing personal freedom and the allowances for ambition of the individual, while protecting the inalienable rights of the masses. That's the best way to be.

I need to get around to reading Zarathustra

 

[Dave]

Democracy/republics are all egalitarian systems as well Dave. Communism is just applying those egalitarian ideas to economics instead of just government, like we do. The right to vote is egalitarian.

Yes but the right to vote is just that... a right.

Egalitarianism is saying that everyone, regardless of health or wealth should be equal and that is where I find the problem. For example, why should I have to work my ass off in a Communist state, as a doctor, when being a janitor would be remarkable easier and pay me the exact same thing for doing an easier job?

I do, however, think that inequalities in health should be wiped out and Egalitarian Government would provide steps to do that. This is especially true in Britain, where we are supposed to have "a free health care system that deals with everyone in the same way as any other". You will find that over the last few years, people have been getting poorer and poorer care on the NHS that surely is against the laws that the NHS was set up on. It mainly comes down to your luck essentially. We have, in Britain, some thing known as the Postcode Lottery. This term describes the care that you might get in one postcode tha would be disallowed in a neighbouring postcode. That is ridiculous. Just because you live somewhere, does that mean that you are not entitled to the same care?

I can live with the wealth inequalities that exist and for that reason, I am not a fan of Egalitarianism. However, I am certain that an Egalitarian Government would put measures into place to wipe out inequalities in health and that is only a good thing.

 

[Loveless]

I do, however, think that inequalities in health should be wiped out and Egalitarian Government would provide steps to do that. This is especially true in Britain, where we are supposed to have "a free health care system that deals with everyone in the same way as any other". You will find that over the last few years, people have been getting poorer and poorer care on the NHS that surely is against the laws that the NHS was set up on.

Poorer care? Load of crap. I've had far too much experience of the NHS in various parts of the country to believe that. The employees of the NHS work their arse off.

It mainly comes down to your luck essentially. We have, in Britain, some thing known as the Postcode Lottery. This term describes the care that you might get in one postcode tha would be disallowed in a neighbouring postcode. That is ridiculous. Just because you live somewhere, does that mean that you are not entitled to the same care?

What a lovely buzzword that is for The Sun reading generation. Funds are appropriated depending on the population per area, treatment is always given. The thing that really annoys me though is who knows what's best for a patient? I've heard plenty of stories of people bitching about not getting a particular kind of treatment they they deem superior, those people having no fucking idea of the specifics of medicine. And on top of all that, IT'S FUCKING FREE. People really should stop bitching about the NHS and realise the papers are full of bullshit and have an agenda.
The NHS is an egalitarian system in comparison to the Nietzchean US system of "If you can't pay, piss off". That's what happens when you privatise healthcare, profits come before patients. Healthcare is the one system that absolutely should be socialist.

 

[Razor]

Fan of it?

By that I mean, do you agree with the idea that all people are equal? Or are you more of a Nietzsche fan, believing in Übermensch?

With Egalitarianism we have two different schools of thought in modern political history; that of democracy, and that of socialism. Both systems operate under the idea that every citizen is equal, but they go about it in different ways. Most socialist nations (and communist for that matter) apply the egalitarian philosophy to not only their political/social systems, but also to their economic systems.

Oh geez, Egalitarian society. Everyone's equal, but to what extent? Democratically, with a bit of capitalist economy thrown in? Or a more Socialist idea, with no one person being left behind in the rush of things...but no one person getting too far ahead of the pack?

As far as I can tell, with Nietzsche, Ubermensch is what we have as a purely carnal society. That is assuming that you mean Ubermensch as applied to a societal system, not how Nietzsche describes it as a goal for Humanity to produce. Like if we were to start Eugenics and nano-gene manipulation to create a race of Supermen.

But no, I'm assuming the former. The idea of the Ubermensch philosophy led to one thing. Kings ruling and everyone else being serfs. That's a shitty way to live. Essentially, the Feudal System is the thinking representation of the Alpha Male system in nature. That's such a primitive way to go about things, it's almost an insult to our Evolution.

However, you can't go totally one way or another. There is no one set of people elite to everyone else, but at the same time there is none that are entirely equal. We are born equal, sure. But once we get the ball rolling and we hit our 20s, hell, our upper teenage years, the disparity is evident. The engineers of this world are more useful than the man that sits on the corner and begs for change. Not that we shouldn't help that man...it's just that when I'm in the lab researching new ways to treat your cancer, I'm much more valuable to society as a whole than a homeless man asking for change.

Can I ask for a melding of the philosophies? Socialist Capitalism, essentially. We pay taxes, as is expected. It's a fucking government, it needs money to run. We work in a capitalistic society, except basic regulations are in place to keep it from getting out of control, ala The Great Depression or this last "Great Recession" as I saw the AP call it a few weeks ago.

The more valuable, today's equivalent of the Ubermensch, are likewise rewarded with more money and a subsequently more comfortable lifestyle. However, the less valuable members of society aren't left behind to choke in the Ubermensches' dust. That's where the Socialist society comes in to make sure we aren't leaving our fellow countrymen to die on the wayside.

Nietzsche would probably cry at the bastardization of his theory. FTS will probably say that's what we have now, which is what I was thinking as I was typing it. Xfear will probably chuckle to himself and say "Oh that Razor. Getting philosophical in my thread." It's fine though, he asked for it when he typed out the name Nietzsche. Or I'm completely wrong. I dunno. I'm going to get a haircut either way.

 

[KKarvox]

When applied literally, in a libertarian way, of course. Egalitarianism in it's true form, is the ideal way to run a country. True, absolute freedom. However, Egalitarianism is often combined with a socialist economic philosophy, or subjected to opinions of certain shools of thought where they become watered down and no longer about freedom, but which freedoms are essential. You see this in the main political parties, republicans with gun-ownership and certain types of free speech, and democrats with civil-liberties and certain free speech. It can also be given in forms of "equal rights", or the "equal pay" arguments, which usually are more about special treatment and not equal treatment.