During the Attitude era, could anyone have beat Shamrock in a "legit" fight?

[BigBombB]

So I'm stealing this idea directly from a conversation that started in the Women's tournament thread but I think it is interesting to think about. During the Attitude era, Shamrock was coming off a run as one of the top MMA fighters in the world, and was a legit tough guy. There are a few instances of Shamrock losing his temper and beating on some of wrestlings 'toughest' stars with relative ease.

If there was a backstage scuffle between Shamrock and any other member of the roster during the Attitude era, is there anyone you think would have stood a chance of winning that fight?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Dan Severn possibly. But wrestling is full of fake tough guys. That's why they're wrestlers and not fighters. Most can handle themselves I'd assume but that's about it.

 

[Mustang Sally]

If there was a backstage scuffle between Shamrock and any other member of the roster during the Attitude era, is there anyone you think would have stood a chance of winning that fight?

No, not any of the pro wrestlers. Some are legitimately tough, I'm sure, but if people think guys like Hulk Hogan or the Big Show could beat a fighter like Ken Shamrock, they're kidding themselves. If Shamrock were to stand still and let the big guys hit him, there'd be trouble.....but he wouldn't, and they'd wear themselves out in short order trying to catch him.

But wrestling is full of fake tough guys. That's why they're wrestlers and not fighters.

This is why I'm interested to see what happens to CM Punk in an MMA setting.....if it actually happens, on which I wouldn't bet the farm.

 

[Miko]

Its more proof, as if it were needed, that Undertaker fans are biased idiots in large parts. Look at that video where Shamrock calls him Mark on Youtube, the top comments are "I bet Undertaker got in a few stiff shots there for calling him Mark" or "Shamrock was lucky", etc, etc. Nope, no, no way. Shamrock would've just about murdered Undertaker if anything ever happened between them, and considering Undertaker was considered one of the toughest, there is your answer.

 

[Pedigree1]

Kenny boy back then was indeed one Bad Mutha F**ka! No one on the roster could have handled him their was no way. He would have handled them in short order. Pro wrestlers im sure are real tough guys and can handle themselves in a given situation but a trained fighter in multiple disciplines,thats a walking weapon.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

Hmm I truly believe that nobody could have taken out Ken Shamrock from the WWF at the time. Dan Severn had- but I heard that by the time Dan Severn entered WWF; he was injured and past his best. Shamrock was legit the toughest guy in Wrestling from 1997 to 2000 when he left. Im not sure if he could take on Brock Lesnar when they were both in their peak but it would have been a dream fight. Steve Blackman may have had a good shout but if Shamrock took him to the ground it would be over.

Further more; Ken Shamrock called Undertaker "Mark" because at that stage in that awful storyline; the Undertaker was presented as a bad guy who was a human being with asparations to being a "phenom" like character so McMahon probably instructed Shamrock to call him Mark to add realism. If you look at what happened after that time; Taker left wwf TV by standing next to Vince and saying to him "well if you order me around I will quit - you won't see me for a very long time" and he walked away. (Taker was going for surgery on his groin. He returned with the American Bad ass gimmick).

But yeah - Shamrock was a true dangerous dude.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Who'd a thought that a spat with Mustang Sally would lead to a new thread (we should fight more often Sal).

This is actually an interesting question because it was at a time when the UFC was still in its infancy and wrestling would still have been a more lucrative proposition. As such, there is the potential that certain established and up and coming guys MAY (and I emphasise MAY) have had a shot. With that in mind, the guys who Shamrock may have been mindful off in my eyes would have been Owen and Bret who, by all accounts, were both the offspring off and trained by a pretty renowned and sadistic shooter. They may not have shared time in the WWe for too long but we've also got to remember that Kurt Angle also entered the Attitude Era just before Ken left it. Outside of that, we're left with word of mouth hardmen like Taker, Vader or Rick Rude although I'd be very dubious of their chances.

 

[rmp0012002]

No. Shamrock was a legit fighter trained in various disciplines so he was not someone to play around with. Some guys like Big Show might be big and strong but they don't have the attitude to go against trained guys, especially ones that have bad attitudes to start with.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The one thing that has been true over the years is that you truly NEVER know until the fight happens. No one would have ever thought Bart Gunn could knock Dr. Death silly, Booker would handle the "The Animal" and come out "the victor" or that Jericho would end up leaving Bill Goldberg in such a humiliating position. If either was repeated or one thing was different, they go the other way.

Shamrock, Severn and their ilk were legit tough guys and "trained" but at the same time they were prone to overconfidence and neither man was undefeated by the end... even Brock can get beat...

The closest tale of anything actually involving Shamrock is the opposite, prior to his UFC days and when he did his original wrestling stint he got into a bad situation with the Nasty Boys, initially getting the best of Knobbs but Saggs tore him up badly... to the point someone, I believe it was Robert Fuller, had to stop them literally killing him by hurling him off a balcony... There are probably shades of truth to the actual story but of course Ken THEN became a bad ass, but he clearly had a hot head and would think nothing of running into a 2 on 1... it's easy to see Ken getting into a stupid situation again by losing his head and it not ending well.

If anyone would have done it, it would have probably been Haku... that guy is insane... again, the stories are multitude and legendary...but scarily true... no matter how trained someone is, if you're fighting someone as nuts as "Tonga" then you could get very hurt indeed.

 

[wrestler36]

I'm not sure if Steve Blackman has a grappling background. If so, maybe him. If he only has a striking background, then no. Like earlier posts, Severn could have too. I remember watching early UFC, much of the early main events were Gracie, Shamrock and Severn.

 

[rmp0012002]

I hated Royce Gracie in those early fights as his matches were about exciting as watching paint dry. He would get his opponent in a hold and spend the entire match in that hold waiting for the tap out. Same thing every match.
You can have all the training in the world but unless you have that nasty killer instinct to go with it you're going to get a beatdown.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Horse shit all of you. Say what you want about training and this and that but a young Show's power and size would give him a chance to kill the most talented man about a foot shorter and two hundred pounds less. Shamrock was in his mid thirties during the AE. I'm not saying Show would beat him every time and in every circumstance but to ignore a man with his size and strength is absurd.

 

[JoeMallard]

Only person I can think of that would at least stand a chance is Kurt Angle. I don't know if he could handle getting punched in the face, but he could stand toe to toe in the ground game.

 

[goalieman31]

The only guy to be able to take shamrock would be dan severn as he actually did beat him in an mma fight before. At that time I'm not sure severn could have beat him though injuries and age were catching up to him.

 

[OYDK]

Horse shit all of you. Say what you want about training and this and that but a young Show's power and size would give him a chance to kill the most talented man about a foot shorter and two hundred pounds less. Shamrock was in his mid thirties during the AE. I'm not saying Show would beat him every time and in every circumstance but to ignore a man with his size and strength is absurd.

This is very true. It's so easy to look at Big Show nowadays and see him as a normal guy, who's just like everybody else. Not true. The guy is 7 feet tall, 500 pounds and in 1999 he was ten times more athletic and quick than he is nowadays. To say that Shamrock would annihilate Show just because he was a top MMA fighter is not a fact, as most make it out to be... If Show got his hands around Shamrock's neck, it would be over within seconds. Don't believe me? Go watch the story of Big Show basically swiping at someone at a bar in 99 and knocking him clean out. As GSB said, Show wouldn't win every time, but to say Shamrock would, I think, is a little out there.

Anyway, I think there were a few people who could have held their own with Shamrock. Beat him... probably not, but at least last a few minutes. Taker would be one I think, as he's a "legit tough guy" with some real MMA training. Show as mentioned above. Severn if he counts. Maybe Blackman in a straight stand-up.

 

[The Warlord]

1990's Ken Shamrock on steroids would fuck up most people...and probably a few in the UFC today.

Angle would have given him fits...but still would have gotten beat down in a legit fight

 

[rmp0012002]

This is very true. It's so easy to look at Big Show nowadays and see him as a normal guy, who's just like everybody else. Not true. The guy is 7 feet tall, 500 pounds and in 1999 he was ten times more athletic and quick than he is nowadays. To say that Shamrock would annihilate Show just because he was a top MMA fighter is not a fact, as most make it out to be... If Show got his hands around Shamrock's neck, it would be over within seconds. Don't believe me? Go watch the story of Big Show basically swiping at someone at a bar in 99 and knocking him clean out. As GSB said, Show wouldn't win every time, but to say Shamrock would, I think, is a little out there.

Anyway, I think there were a few people who could have held their own with Shamrock. Beat him... probably not, but at least last a few minutes. Taker would be one I think, as he's a "legit tough guy" with some real MMA training. Show as mentioned above. Severn if he counts. Maybe Blackman in a straight stand-up.

You're missing the point. If you look at Show and Shamrock you would easily pick Show based on size right? Just being big doesn't give you the edge if you don't have the attitude just as being a trained MMA fighter doesn't make you dangerous but the the mindset does. Shamrock was a street fighter and comes with a totally different mindset. Brock is a big guy with some success in UFC but he's still a bit of a nice guy in reality and Cain beat him to death.

 

[Goldie]

Shamrock would have destroyed Big Show. Size may count iN situations where 2 fighters are evenly skilled... but a smaller skilled fighter would easily dispose of a bigger guy with no fighting expertise.
I remember Bam Bam Bigelow... a huge guy.... getting crushed in about a minute when he had a legit MMA fight.

There are backstage stories of the WWE guys from the time having (friendly) grappling bouts.... and Kurt Angle reportedly had no problem making Big Show tap out.
Kurt Angle is the guy that springs to mind who may have a chance against Shamrock.... (if we discount fellow MMA guys like Severn).... but I'd probably slightly favour Shamrock still.

Kens MMA career after WWE is very spotty.... but then he was up against tough MMA guys who know how to fight, not pro wrestlers with inflated reputations. Shamrock would have tied knots around lockeroom bullys such as Scot Steiner.


Its going to be really interesting to see CM Punk in MMA.

 

[Kashagi]

Against a bigger man, one simply needs to take them to the ground. I don't know if Big Show has any wrestling credentials (none that I am aware of), but a man of Shamrocks caliber would take him down with ease, and then it's game over.

Size only goes so far, in the end it is a admittedly athletic big man with no fight experience (other then punching a fan), against (at the time) one of the best MMA fighters on the planet. There is no argument.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

The only guys around at that time I'd say would have had a chance in a fight against Shamrock would have been Haku (just for being a legitimate BAD ASS), Dan Severn for his MMA skills and maybe Steve Blackman because of his martial arts training.

Shamrock was extremely tough, intense and aggressive. If he'd been in a fight with almost any wrestler (most of whom would be pretty tough themselves), Shamrock would have been the guy walking away after the fight. A person who's trained as a fighter is extremely dangerous.

 

[OYDK]

You're missing the point. If you look at Show and Shamrock you would easily pick Show based on size right? Just being big doesn't give you the edge if you don't have the attitude just as being a trained MMA fighter doesn't make you dangerous but the the mindset does. Shamrock was a street fighter and comes with a totally different mindset. Brock is a big guy with some success in UFC but he's still a bit of a nice guy in reality and Cain beat him to death.

How am I missing the point? Just because I think Show would beat Shamrock in a legit fight maybe 2 out of 10 times? The thread is asking if anyone can beat Ken Shamrock in a fight during the AE, that's the point unless I'm missing something... Anyway, just being big DOES give you the edge... That's why if you put Big Show against any normal human being, Big Show is going to win every damn time...

Yes Shamrock was crazy. Yes he was a bad-ass. Yes he was "dangerous", but don't let perception cloud your judgment. Big Show was still 7 feet 500 pounds and he can get pretty damn dangerous when he's angry too, I would assume.

All I'm saying is there are many more ways Show could have survived against Shamrock than a lot of others. With Show's power, a lucky punch could have done it. If he got his hands on him, he could easily overpower him. If he got him down, there would be no way for Shamrock to transition underneath him. MMA fighters aren't gods... at some point, size and power evens the playing field. Not to mention Big Show is a trained boxer and has limited MMA training as well.

 

[Vader]

Trollin ain't EZ

Severn won a decision over Shamrock at UFC in a 9 in a horribly boring match.

If you don't think The Big Show could have POTENTIALLY beaten Shamrock then you don't understand why there are weight classes in most every martial art. By virtue of size alone other wrestlers like Taker, and Kane would have a shot as well.

Olympic Wrestler Angle could have beaten Shamrock 30% of the time based on Bro Science.

Steve Blackman apparently knew some Taekwondo but that's pretty useless so I wouldn't say he had much of a chance either.

Shamrock still had a decent run in the UFC after it came back into the spotlight before losing to Ortiz.

 

[rmp0012002]

How am I missing the point? Just because I think Show would beat Shamrock in a legit fight maybe 2 out of 10 times? The thread is asking if anyone can beat Ken Shamrock in a fight during the AE, that's the point unless I'm missing something... Anyway, just being big DOES give you the edge... That's why if you put Big Show against any normal human being, Big Show is going to win every damn time...

Yes Shamrock was crazy. Yes he was a bad-ass. Yes he was "dangerous", but don't let perception cloud your judgment. Big Show was still 7 feet 500 pounds and he can get pretty damn dangerous when he's angry too, I would assume.

All I'm saying is there are many more ways Show could have survived against Shamrock than a lot of others. With Show's power, a lucky punch could have done it. If he got his hands on him, he could easily overpower him. If he got him down, there would be no way for Shamrock to transition underneath him. MMA fighters aren't gods... at some point, size and power evens the playing field. Not to mention Big Show is a trained boxer and has limited MMA training as well.

I didn't mean to be disrespectful when I said you missed the point. Absolutely Big Show could win due to his size just as Shamrock has lost to guys his own weight but Shamrock isn't going to go toe to toe with him like a boxer either. I've seen a lot of big guys go into MMA and just get destroyed as their size doesn't translate into toughness. I would put my money on the guy pissed off at the world more often than not.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful when I said you missed the point. Absolutely Big Show could win due to his size just as Shamrock has lost to guys his own weight but Shamrock isn't going to go toe to toe with him like a boxer either. I've seen a lot of big guys go into MMA and just get destroyed as their size doesn't translate into toughness. I would put my money on the guy pissed off at the world more often than not.

Do you have any examples of 200 lb. guys in their mid thirties beating guys in their mid to late 20's where the younger guy has a 200 lb. and one foot advantage in height? Add in where the bigger guy is also in incredibly good shape. I get your argument and don't doubt that "Dangerous" was more than just a moniker for Shamrock but even the craziest dudes can't stop a charging bull from crushing them. At some point physics becomes more powerful than psychiatry.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

In the octagon I doubt it but if you are just talking a regular fight sure it could happen. People act like MMA guys are unbeatable. Fighting in a ring and street fighting are two totally different animals. The biggest difference being size. Like GSB stated, no matter how skilled you are when a bull comes gunning for you good luck stopping it.