Dumb Smarks & *Spoilers*

[darqknyt]

I've come to realise there's a diference between knowing how something happens and knowing why something happens. That ladies & gentleman's what it comes down to when you look at the emergence of the I.W.C (Internet Wrestling Community).Perhaps a biggest part of the IWC'S the proliferation of spoilers.

Alot of guys who work the wrestling have complained that the internet has ruined wrestling.Their argument was that stuff like spoilers had well, uh, spoiled wrestling and that all the "mystery" has been taken out. It is partly true that the internet has taken alot out of the WWE experince especially.Spoilers or no spoilers, TNA's will always cop a 0.9 rating,so i'll leave it out of my argument for now.

But let's look at a show like SD! There have been times when spoilers (made by WWE.com for that matter) have actually helped to up the rating.Take for example in June 2005 when Batista was drafted to SD!,the May 2007 edition when Edge cashed in Money-In-The-Bank on Taker and Swagger's recent WHC win.Part of this was probably meant to pre-empt online leaks/spoilers.However this tends to be exception rather than the rule.

I actually don't think spoilers adversely affect ratings.If the show is good,people will still watch it.Spoilers only hurt TV ratings when we read that Koslov vs. Khali was the mainevent of the show.Then people feel like they can skip the show.Its kinda how bad movie reviews make people avoid a movie no matter how much the studio hyped it.

The biggest gripe I have with spoilers will never have a better case study than 2007's botched Jericho return.The way that info leaked on the internet tainted Chris on two front:
First,it took away from the actual November 19 return because it stopped being "Let's see who is going to Save us?",and ended up being, "Okay,what time during RAW will Y2J walk out".Some people will dispute and say that it was "obvious" that it was Chris,but bear in mind for quite some time people actually thought it was HBK returning.It could also could easily have been a prominent former WWE wrestler like RVD.
Secondly,it put way to much pressure on Chris to actually "Save Us" i.e super-naturally up RAW's rating from 3.1 to a 5.1 overnight.IWC marks say that his return boomed,when in actual fact it couldn't have been better.What screwed it up was the skewed perception's people had because of internet rumors.
My first encounter with how spoilers can ruin a show for a real fan was the infamous post-Wrestlemania episode of RAW in 2003.To hear fans chanting "Goldberg,Goldberg" long before he was scheduled to come out freakin' ruined what was meant to be a classic RAW moment.

What amazes me though is how pissed IWC marks get when the WWE outsmarts them.Cena's Royal Rumble 2008 return got a jaded reaction from the IWC.Granted John has his "issues" when it come to the fans,but that was simply used as an excuse by IWC marks to avoid admitting they got outsmarted by Vince & creative.As matter of fact, anytime we get a suprise return(e.g Batista-post WM25,HHH on RAW after Extreme Rules '09, Edge-Royal Rumble 2010 etc) the IWC jumps to say how "poorly it was done", or how "it makes no sense"

One of the oddest things is how alot of times "spoiler& rumors" put out on the internet actually end up being false.Yet none of these Phantom Bookers & reportes ever take responsibility when they go online,blatantly lie & then claim that WWE did a "swerve".Just browse through the threads & see how many have opinions being presented as fact.There's one I saw recently where a guy had the audacity to say that "according to a Polish site" Batista wasn't leaving WWE anytime soon.Well, lore& behold,Dave quit's Monday Night,and that guy just mislead loads of people.

What I don't get is why the WWE doesn't take legal action against all these websites whose bread& butter is leaking info they heard from some snitch in the WWE creative team.If some guy at Warner Brothers put up a website where they gave a complete story synopsis & spoiler for The Dark Knight or (Paramount and Iron Man) prior its official release,he would have been told to take it down & probably would have gotten sued. If WWE & other promotions can find a way to quantify potential lost revenue( e.g advertising, ppv buys) caused by Spoilers,I'd support any kind of litigation against some of these websites.

To say that wrestling's bad is very unfair considering the quality of the product years ago.The standard of actual 'wrestling' has improved,& guys are taking more legit bumps than ever before.I agree that we don't have a Rock or Stone Cold anymore.But I believe the Attitude Era was more "different" than it was actually good.If the Rock was around now, I bet IWC would shoot him down for "over-selling" moves & would think the Stunner was a lame-ass finisher.

I don't know what you guys feel about this whole issue? Have spoilers ruined your WWE experince,is WWE the one to blame for the declining interest amongst viewers over the years or are we as fans helping to kill the industry?

 

[AA-Styles]

YES. Finally someone understands the types of things spoilers do to you!! Seriously, when I was watching Raw November 19 2007 I already knew who was coming to "Save Us". Why? Because of every ****** in WWE management that keeps posting spoilers. Sure it was a dead give awy with Jericho's Y2J gimmick and the cryptic binary code but who cares?! Like you said, you never know whom it may be, it could of been RVD or another pro wrestler wanting to make another run with the business returning. I think WWE is the one to blame for declining the interests of millions of viewers and fans. Honestly when the 2010 Royal Rumble was happening I thought Booker T (not the King Booker gimmick) or Kurt Angle (iMPACT when Angle spat at Hulk's face and said 'I Quit' were returning but cause of the spoilers it turned ou to be Edge. Well, that's my opinion. LATERZ.

 

[ckoneagain]

Yeah and how about Christians return, we all suspected it was happening but we had weeks of people on here saying how he's going to return and be the guy that was attacking jeff hardy and when it turned out to be Matt Hardy they claimed that because of the spoilers the story had been changed? I dunno that seems a bit arrogant to me. I sometimes wish i didn't have to come on here but i live in the uk in an area where i can't watch raw or smackdown and i found the WWE write-ups of the events were very minimal so started reading shows results here, but i, just like most of you, get sucked into the 'exclusives' and 'spoilers' that crop up and 9/10 times it ruins it for everyone, its all just a big 'i'm so clever, i know something you don't know' kinda thing and its pretty childish really, i mean what do we actually gain from most of the spoilers? A good reason to tune in when you weren't going to before sometimes i guess, but more often than not, i find it a reason to not bother tuning in because i already know what's happened

 

[DirtyJosé]

If you don't like spoilers, don't read them. Don't go blaming the internet because you don't have self control enough not to click a link labeled "*Spoilers*" or stop reading a thread that involves them (though these forums are against spoilers, aren't they?). If there are any posted here, it's likely on the main site, where they are clearly labelled. Don't be a child in need of supervision; if you don't want the surprise ruined, don't click the link. The only people here who can bitch about spoilers are the mods who have to read every post and have to see spoilers when they are posted (if only so that they can ban the idiot who put them up).

It's the internet, it's not terribly hard to understand.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

If you were to post something stolen from a production company (such as Warner Bros like your example), then yes, they could tell you to take it down as they own that property. However, spoilers without anything concrete (ala the script, video, etc) are perfectly allowed. Why? Because there's nothing to back it up other than the person's word. And if they find out who leaked the information, they fire that person.

The same goes for the WWE. They see footage on YouTube and take it down because they own it. But they can't, for instance, come to my site Smark Out Moment, say "you can't say that you've heard that Jack Swagger cashed in the MITB and won the world title on Smackdown", and have me sued or something. They've taped ahead of time and it's publicly out there now. Take for instance films. They release at different times in different countries. Someone was just talking to me a few hours ago about how the Rock's film "The Tooth Fairy" is just coming out where they're from. Now, it's been in America for 5 months. Should I not be able to post a movie review just because other people haven't seen it yet?

When it comes to things being leaked from the inside that aren't just pre-taped spoilers, that's not an issue you can sue websites like WrestleZone or whatever for, either. Again, it boils down to nothing but "I've heard that..." and even though it may be from "a very credible source", it's still not stealing someone's property. That source, though, if they're ever found out, they're fired just as they'd be at Warner Bros. About a year ago someone was fired for just that reason. I forget his name, but he was supposedly using a company laptop and leaking future storylines and such. Now that guy, yes, he could be sued, because I'm sure there's something in his contract that states he can't do that, but you can't sue a site like WZ for posting hearsay.

And when it comes to spoilers, everyone has a choice to read them, so you can't say you should totally ban any and all when it isn't mandatory.

 

[Sparky]

I like spoilers. In tasmania you have two options to watch wrestling. Austar or online, sometimes I can manage to watch raw online but when I can't and for TNA, Smackdown and nxt the only Option i have is to read the results online. so what's it matter when I find out the results, if it's the same time as everybody else or two days before hand as long as I don't tell anybody or ruin it for anybody.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Spoilers have existed for a lot longer than the internet was popular. On the wrestling thread on FIDONET in the 80's and 90's spoilers were rampant.

That being said, the people in the industry who bitch about spoilers ruining wrestling are full of crap. They're only using that excuse for their ratings dropping because they don't want admit their current product is garbage compared to what they used to dished out in the attitude era.

If they gave us a good wrestling show with interesting angles, and lots of action (not where they hold back like they do now) while maintaining focus on wrestling rather than making some stupid soap opera written by guys with downsyndrome, they wouldn't use the spoilers cop out.

By the way, if they taped NXT on monday nights and then did smackdown live as well as raw, there wouldn't be smackdown spoilers floating around the web.

 

[Andr-KOOL]

If you don't like spoilers, don't read them. Don't go blaming the internet because you don't have self control enough not to click a link labeled "*Spoilers*" or stop reading a thread that involves them (though these forums are against spoilers, aren't they?). If there are any posted here, it's likely on the main site, where they are clearly labelled. Don't be a child in need of supervision; if you don't want the surprise ruined, don't click the link. The only people here who can bitch about spoilers are the mods who have to read every post and have to see spoilers when they are posted (if only so that they can ban the idiot who put them up).

It's the internet, it's not terribly hard to understand.

The links doesn't have to say SPOILERS at all. It's when you know that the match is Intercontinental champion Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison and the headline says; 'new intercontinental champion crowned', that pisses me off because you obviously know who the champ is after a headline like that.

 

[DirtyJosé]

The links doesn't have to say SPOILERS at all. It's when you know that the match is Intercontinental champion Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison and the headline says; 'new intercontinental champion crowned', that pisses me off because you obviously know who the champ is after a headline like that.

If it's the main site, it's usually labelled "New Champion Crowned" or something similar. Even with the Jack Swagger spoiler, WZ mainsite's article on it mentioned the "huge news" or "huge spoiler" at the Smackdown! tapings. And also, you should know better if you are looking up wrestling sites. Find a spoiler-free news site if that's what you want/need.

If it's on the forums, the idiot who posted them is usually banned asaf'np.

 

[steveh0481]

I can completely understand both sides of the argument. I believe that some things have been tainted from the internet. However, there is no way to police these spoilers from being posted. Honestly, if you dont want to know anything and would like to steer clear of the "news" on wrestling websites, the best thing to do is to avoid them completely. You can still be a member of the forums and post comments without ever seeing a wrestling website. There is no way that news sites will simply stop posting news and spoilers. That's why they exist.

I will agree I was a bit bummed that I knew the return of Y2J because of live fans chanting for him and signs in the arena. That's where it becomes a bit annoying. I try to limit the amount of spoilers I read because I do like surprises. I don't think its fair for live fans to ruin the show by spoiling returns because they read ahead of time who is returning and decided to tell a bunch of their buddies. However, I have no clue how WWE would fix something like that except simply hide EVERYTHING they do, which is pretty much impossible this day and age.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I personally use the results pages just to keep up with what's going on in WWE.

Good or bad programming, i am NOT staying up until 2am to watch Raw every monday. Nor am i prepared to stay in on a Friday to watch Smackdown. If it were on on Thursday or maybe Saturday i'd be more enclined.

So considering that i'm not going to watch the shows either way, I have no real problem with spoilers. I use any and all 'information' to keep up to date with storylines, possible storylines, new wrestlers and expiring contracts and injuries. Then i'll have an idea as to why certain things have happened at the PPVs.

I'll understand if they suddenly take Orton out of the Fatal 4way match, because he's injured.

I understand why a certain superstar is suddenly going to be in SD's Fatal 4way, despite the way he's been booked, because i know why they stopped what he was doing previously.

Throughout my studies of peformance art, i've always had a great love for Bertolt Brecht's distancing effect (otherwise known as the verfremdungseffekt), which basically says 'fuck the glitz, glamour and all the asthetic bollocks, storylines and even whether your audience enjoyed it, as long as people get the message when they leave.'

Applied to wrestling, i don't care what the storyline is, or what theme music guys have, or whether there's pyro, as long as there's decent wrestling going on, i'm happy.......

Hence why i only watch the PPVs, because just about every match is going to last longer than 3 minutes, and should be half decent, and no one can honestly say the same about Raw or SD.

 

[ABMorales787]

The links doesn't have to say SPOILERS at all. It's when you know that the match is Intercontinental champion Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison and the headline says; 'new intercontinental champion crowned', that pisses me off because you obviously know who the champ is after a headline like that.

Yeah, ignore the main page. Its not exactly managed by rocket scientists. However, this spoiler thing really isn't a big deal. If people read the spoilers and are driven away from the show, then its because they aren't as much of a fan of the product. Its like a taped Basketball game featuring your team. You know they'll lose, but you still want to see them, because you support them. Spoilers did not ruin professional wrestling because if it did, then the rest of TV and the movie world would be in the same shape. Its the fans mouthing off over the internet and the fact that some workers actually bother with paying attention to us that's ruined the product.

 

[gbaby_steve25]

SPOILER ALERT, SPOILER ALERT!!!!! so spoilers are the downfall of Wrestling? I can agree with this to an extent. I do believe some products such as TNA are hurt by spoilers. Some shows such as Smackdown well I read the spoilers because i really dont care to watch it on Saturday nights when it airs here, i have better things to do on Saturday nights then watch a C rated show with one A rated wrestler in Taker. But a huge reason why spoilers are so popular is the lack of affordable cable and satellite. With the economy as bad as it was and still is somewhat people are not able to afford cable tv. They cant watch the shows on the days there on. They use libraries and computer labs to look up what happens. I cant fault them for that as this is what i do. But i think spoilers should be limited. Give the fans a time limit to check out spoilers, say from the time there posted to 18 hours later. Then remove the spoilers and not list anything til the results post, or live results post. Then people can see them if they want and there not readily available all the time.

another thing i have thought about is for TNA. Bring in a live chat similar to what they do in the WWE universe. Give the fans a chat to discuss whats happening. Then those of us with out cable can chat and get live results even if its a taped show. Another thing is i would love to see WWE or TNA do streams of their main shows. Put Raw online when it airs. Let the fans who cant get cable watch it online. TNA would also benifiet huge from this, as even some cable and satellite providers in the U.S dont even offer spike tv. They can tape the shows they still do and have a stream at the exact same time as impact on tv. and the live shows could be done as well. All of this would help reduce the number of spoilers as fans would have easier access to watch the shows.

I for one read spoilers simply because i can not watch the product until a day or two later on you tube. some ppv's i cant watch at all cause they get removed. spoilers are not the downfall of the companies, the companies that havent figured out how to work around them are the downfall of themselves.

 

[Low_Ki]

During the 'Attitude Era' spoilers were rife.

I think it is always going to be a part of wrestling and I truly believe it is the reason for the decline in ratings over the years. Sure the calibre of gimmicks has gone down as well, but I think not knowing what is going to happen on a weekly basis, and more importantly, not being able to find out always made the product interesting, even if the storyline's were a little flaky.

But I do also agree with the notion that if you don't want to look at spoilers, you have that option. But 99% of the IWC are on here and are already looking for the next spoiler or news item. I think the real thrill comes now from reading spoilers and news items and not from watching them, which is kind of sad.

RAW going live is obviously one way of keeping what is going to happen a secret but when John Cena is the champion in March and at a live event in June is promoting Shaemus as champion (theoretically speaking) you have kind of already given away two months worth of bothering to watch.

I guess we will just have to wait and see in the long run if this adversely affects the WWE as a profitable company, because right now, it isn't.

 

[RicSpade]

Yes its true that spoilers do sometimes take the majesty out of wrestling, and I still believe that alot of what has happen in the wrestling world at the moment has a lot to do with spoilers. Let me give you a few takes on this.

Smackdown has always been on a crappy channel IMO. Well before they went from UPN to CW to MyNetworkTV spoilers were around, but not as prominent as they are today and its all because alot of areas don't have that channel, I know for a long time my area stopped carrying Smackdown (it was sometime after Al Snow ate his dog) and I had to constantly read what happened or what will happen to keep up. Maybe once they go to Syfy they can go live and we won't see any spoilers in WWE, doubtful but you never know.

TNA I couldn't really get into until after it left fox sports net I never saw storylines when watching, while I watched some of the weekly PPVs, it was a lot better for me to catch TNA once it got on Spike I mean thats when I felt like everything was really more developed. I honestly think that if they had actually stopped taping the other week and kept live all 4 weeks going into the ppv people would've tuned in to both show more and you would've seen a .9 to 1.2 like Jan 4th. It also doesn't help when you can catch it on Thursday to for a few weeks. so in that sense it hurts more than helps.

But I must agree to some extent that *Spoilers* such as Bret is the new GM or Jericho's return or Matt Hardy returning lost its luster cause they kept bringing up how they haven't taken any more bookings or WWE contacted TNA to do this or whatever the case may be.

On that same token though its a wrestling organizations problem if they draw out something long enough to where anyone can spoil it. Like Jericho that Save us 222 was on there for an eternity to the point where people went on youtube and gave you a breakdown of all the "code" with Jericho written all in it. Or a wrestling site announces a new heavyweight champion on Smackdown if you read it or watch it on Youtube are you going to watch it Friday night? Hell no!

I like spoilers to see if I want to watch, but I think the IWC needs to find a better way to help intrigue the product for example A new heavyweight champion crowned on Smackdown tune in Friday night to see who beat Jack Swagger or click here for the results. Then just maybe then people will pay more attention.

 

[mister_b1LL]

TV shows and Movies have spoilers too, so why shouldn't pro wrestling? I mean after all RAW is a TV show right? Hell, I see UFC results on WZ whenever they have events too. But that hasn't stopped their popularity. MMA is going nowhere but up.

For me spoilers actually help me. I don't have cable, so I can't watch RAW. I check out the spoilers the next day to see if that week's RAW was worth watching. For PPV's I use them just to check if anything changed so I don't get lost the next time I watch SD on TV or RAW or NXT on YT. It gets very hard for me to watch Smackdown though considering the spoilers are posted 3 day before it's on TV and the temptation to check them out is pretty strong. But SmackDown is always a guaranteed hit in my opinion so I keep that as my surprise show.

It's just like a kids TV show. Everybody knows the good guy is going to come out on top in the end, but the fun part is how did they get there. Same thing with wrestling. I'll aready know the results beforehand, but I want to see how they got to that point.

 

[brighamosity]

I really don't think spoilers have much of an effect on wrestling because I'm pretty sure the IWC is a small percentage of the overall WWE fanbase.

That, and they had spoilers during the attitude era, and look at how big their ratings were. And honestly, even knowing the spoilers, I still watched. When I would here "So-and-so is rumored to be joining the nWo" I would watch to see if it came true. Now I do see how Smackdown spoilers and such might hurt, but I just can't see the viewership lost to spoilers making a significant impact.

 

[RockFan89]

I will agree I was a bit bummed that I knew the return of Y2J because of live fans chanting for him and signs in the arena. That's where it becomes a bit annoying. I try to limit the amount of spoilers I read because I do like surprises. I don't think its fair for live fans to ruin the show by spoiling returns because they read ahead of time who is returning and decided to tell a bunch of their buddies.

That right there is my only objection to the posting of spoilers. If I don't want to read the spoilers, it is really annoying when the fans pretty much give it away. When Goldberg debuted it should have been a complete shock, but the fans started chanting his name while the Rock was still talking. Stuff like that takes away from the experience.

 

[holdaasr]

Most of what you said is and will always be true. However when you mention Goldberg chants before the "classic Raw" moment is bullshit. You clearly didn't do enough research on that one.

Two Reasons why:

1. I was in attendance at WM19 at safeco field the night before Raw at key Arena in seattle. So I know both show extremely well.

2. And this is the kicker here; They played (wwe) Goldberg's music and titan-tron video showing Goldberg's name at WM 19. The 55,000 people in attendance new what was going to happen the next night. The 900,000 - 1,000,000 people who bought the PPV knew what that ment. Not a spoiler or a smark made that decision

 

[hurleyworld4]

While spoilers can mess up the surprise for some people, they can also enhance the product.
The best spoiler ever.... EVER!
Tony Schiavone: Blah, Blah, Blah. Tonight on Monday Night Raw, Mick Foley will win the WWF Championship. "That'll put a lot of butts in seats."
I remember this night, and immediately switched to Raw to see the action. I flipped back-and-forth from Nitro (my favorite show at the time) to Raw. When Hogan poked Nash in the chest, my decision was made. My butt wasn't in a seat, but my tv channel was permanently changed.

 

[Mr-excitement]

I blame the WWE more than I blame the net. They are the ones that kept hyping Bret's return.

If Bret had just appeared at the end of a show after the Hart Dynasty cleared the ring and screamed he was back to kick Vince's ass and then the show ended with Vince looking shocked or HBK standing at the top of the ramp, I guarantee you the next week the rating would have been a LOT higher.

They spoiled his comeback, just as they spoiled Jericho's. The WWE could easily keep signings under wrap, but they are concerned with TV ratings and they think by telling people what will happen next week - more people will tune in. You can do that by shocking people at the end of the show with a teaser like when Vince supposedly died.

People were talking.

 

[El Rev sXe]

as far Im concern since I joined the WZ I know everything that is going to happen!!! Of course its my fault...still with the example of Swagger I couldnt help but notice some headlines in the main page kinda:"HUGE SPOILER NEW CHAMP ON SD!" or "AUSTIN COMMENTS ABOUT SWAGGER CASHING IN". I mean of course I have the option to say NO and not to read the spoilers. I do it for every single PPV. Here in Bolivia the PPV are showned not on sunday but rather on wednesday so I dont enter on WZ for 2 or 3 days because it is on the main page + the fact that the discussions areas are like "WTF!? CENA RETAINED (again)". so YES in certain degree of course it has his effect, I think we can all agree that we like to see sometimes little surprises and not saying in front of tv: "hey I knew that was going to happen"...

oh and yeah it CANT be done anything from a legal point of view cause its for god sakes the freakin INTERNET!!!!there are millions of people who contributes to spoilers reviews and all that shit. Just like in music biz, you cant go against the web, cause there are waaaay too many people involved!

 

[mustafa33]

i agree with topic ,this is great problem fro wrestling industry,i never see the spoilers but some titles of spoilers spoil the whole damn thing e.g New Champion crowned ,why cant it be just titled spoiler.

 

[bxbigshow]

I will agree I was a bit bummed that I knew the return of Y2J because of live fans chanting for him and signs in the arena. That's where it becomes a bit annoying. I try to limit the amount of spoilers I read because I do like surprises. I don't think its fair for live fans to ruin the show by spoiling returns because they read ahead of time who is returning and decided to tell a bunch of their buddies.

Someone already countered the Goldberg point so this is a different defense of the live crowd "ruining" the tv fans experience...

Royal Rumble 2000/MSG...It was no secret that WWE signed Taz in August of '99. Not only was it online, but the magazines already broke it. So thoughout the winter they teased his debut with the Titantron.

And when it was decided that Kurt Angle will wrestle a mystery opponent, it was obvious who that man was. If you didn't know it was Taz, you at least knew it was the guy from the Tron.

I was at teh Garden fo that event mainly because I knew he'd debut, so were my 'buddies' and when we chanted "WE WANT TAZ" all over Angle's promo it wasn't to ruin the tv viewers experience, it wasn't to tell everyone how 'smart we are' because we knew who it was. It was to support the man who we're fans of on the night of his debut.

I think people forget that sometimes being a fan is simply that. Being a fan. Not every fan action/reaction is because of the IWC, or smarks. But to be alluded to that my genuine fan reaction was not genuine, but more of a show of arogance is insulting.

 

[darqknyt]

This may sound kinda dumb,but don't sites like WZ also have a responsibilty as fans( well at least they claim to be) to not excessively post spoilers.I know it's clearly their bread & butter and as one guy already put it, 99% of guys on the forums probably expect to see spoilers.Which in turn means additional ad revenue.But I think its insulting for the same guys who report on WZ &review PPV's & shows and call them "predictable", are the same guys who 2weeks prior told us what to expect.