Dont blame WWE

Fratelli

Pre-Show Stalwart
Before i go into this it like to xplane i have nothing againt wrestling sites and enjoy the forums but my point has come across wrong. im not saying its today that wrestling is going downhill, im simply trying to say that with all the internet forums and such out there its only a matter of time before wrestling cant surprise us anymore as the % of wrestling internet fans increases :p ok heres my opinion.

its not the wwes fault that their programming has become somewhat not reaching their potential, its all of us, the wrestlezone and other sites users. the christian angle was spoiled by people finding out he was in contract talks therefore to keep it a surprise matt hardy had to turn heel, the y2j debut was spoiled by us reading these news reports somewhat knowing ther was talks between both sides. other angles and such have been spoiled such as stone cold returing on several occasions, nearly every wrestlemania match is spoiled before the angle starts ( undertaker vs hbk for example), anything with hogan, jeff hardy hit and run incident, hall of fame are a few that i thought off the top of my head, maybe if fans want more of a surprise and better quality wrestling in the future are sites like wrestlezone the way forward?
 
Ok, no. You're WAY off here. Sites like us are at the very most 10% of the wrestling audience. You're also wrong about Christian. We didn't know he was coming. Just the day before that we were talking about how we didn't know where he was going. Matt Hardy, it was beyond obvious. Never saw a single thing about it online and about a dozen of us called it. Jericho went on for so long that no one cared. That wasn't our fault. It was WWE's for taking forever. Most of the people that watch WWE are marks. We're not to blame for what's been going on. The writing is.
 
of corse everyone new christian was coming back and origanally it was ment to be at the royal rumble, vince found out people wer reading this and changed his plan ( i read this on a wrestling website ;) ) some people say is only 10% but whos to say by next year its 20% and that % keeps growing as the younger wwe audience learns about these sites. this is more like the begining of the downward spirlal givem a few years
 
Yeah this is ridiculous. How is a simple wrestling site ruining anything? I have talked to some people who still believe have the things in the ring aren't scripted before I let them in on some things. If 10% of people visited wrestling sites, that is more than I would believe. And the fact that wrestling sites are wrong around half the time is also a reason why we cannot be viewed as the person ruining it. The thing that ruins any story line is how easy it is to guess what will happen next.
 
my personal opinion is that it the % of online users will increase over the years and people go on about this "10% of wrestling fans" do they have an officail figure for this? how can any1 justify all over the world how many wrestling fans go online thers so many wrestling sites other than wrestlezone it would be pritty hard to figure out how many people are actually using these sites, by that logic u can say 50% of wrestling fans use the internet.
 
You could look at site hits and their IP address, find out that a certain amount of people view it. I hate to be biased and steriotypical, but look at the average wrestling fan. Lots are either older people who probably know very little about computers, or kids who still think wrestling is real for the most part. We users are wrestling websites are the minority, and for the most part are around the same age, 17-25
 
thats a fair point about the type of fans but as i said, no1 to my knowledge has counted the number of individual views of every wrestling site therfore i refuse to buy into "10% of wrestling fans". do u really belive tho wrestling sites wont become any more popular in the future? as i find that hard to beileve that the "10%" wont be over 30%+ the time wrestlemania 30 or 35 come around
 
But that doesn't really matter if they become more popular in the future relating back to your original post of the time right now, not the future. They may become more popular in the future, and I am sure Crave Online is counting on that. The 10% is a random number that was made up, KB doesn't actually know, I don't actually know, we just guessed. I actually think its around 5% to be honest.
 
ok maybe wer goin off topic a bit here lol. the question im trying o put forward is that in the future will wrestling sites start to ruin the wrestling world for us by giving away spoilers forcing not only the wwe but other wrestling promotions probably into changing their original storyline (take christians return for xample and iv perviously posted a link to back that up) causing the storylines to become less exciting and surprising? until someone comes up with an official % of wrestling online fans please dont post it how can anyone possibly know?
 
I can't even take this thread seriously when the user who posted is spelling like they're five.

pritty
xplane
belive

Just to name a few examples.

Also, this person is assuming that everything posted on these sites is 100% fact and not rumor or speculation. Furthering that, let's say Vince McMahon does find out a future surprise/storyline leaked.....then he has to change it and ultimately, we may be surprised in the long run.

Lastly, if you believe the users of sites such as this are ruining the wrestling product...well....leave. By leaving, not only will you be surprised when things happen in the WWE, but then you're decreasing the number of Internet fans. Looks like a win-win scenario.
 
to begin with at no point did i say or imply these sites wer 100% true, if u read the post at the start i tried to Explane that this post was wat would happen to the wrestling business if wrestling sites became so popular nothing could be kept a secret ( more users on wrestling sites means more information to be shared around am i right). people say that eg the christian angle could have been done better and wer pissed when he didnt come back at the royal rumble, when in reality it was their own fault as vince found out rumors wer being leaked and changed his plans, therfore he came back with a less exciting impact.
 
Simply put, it IS the WWE's fault.

They have gotten lazy and unoriginal. They are stretching to come up with some of the most God awful stuff. As I mentioned before, Kizarny was pretty weak. Rumors claim it's his in-ring skills which are the reason he hasn't been on TV, but quite frankly I blame the ridiculous character given to him. Yet, you, based on how you continuously try to explain this, are essentially telling me that Kizarny is the result of Internet fans who have caused the WWE to become completely lazy with their writing and character direction/development. Yeah, good luck selling that to anyone on this site.

Story lines are becoming predictable....even for those who don't visit sites like these....they are either drawn out too long or cut to short. Here's a great example:

Remember when Viscera was fueding with Charlie Hass because Hass accidently knocked Lilian Garcia off the ring apron, thus hurting her? Now, remember when after three or so weeks of matches, they suddenly were friends? How did the WWE explain this? Well, during a backstage interview, when questioned how they could suddenly be friends after such a heated feud, they replied with....

"We could tell you.....but we won't!"

Wow....clever. So clever on the part of the WWE. Now how about the Kelly-Kelly and Kane angle? How would it unfold? Who would Kelly's secret lover be? Well when WWE changed their minds on the whole thing, they made it Randy Orton and for the sake of killing the angle before it really gained any interest or momentum, he axed her. Ironically enough, a few weeks later, Randy Orton mentions how he has recently become a father. So apparently this little trist with Kelly-Kelly has no consequences. Then, Kane just stopped caring. Great. Great story....man was I hooked.

It's quite sad that even storylines from the late 80s and early 90s (when much of the WWE was cartoon-like) were so much more developed, entertaining, and dare I say more unpredicable.
 
the topic is what could happen in the FUTURE btw. i very highly doubt kizary debut was on the same page as christians debut as far as the wwe werw concerned in terms of excitment, kizarny had promos aired for him so how could it be surprising? where as christian debuted on a regular episode of ecw with no promos but less of a reaction as he would have unarguably gotten if he had attacked jeff at the RR insted of matt.
 
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want Christian to have attacked Jeff Hardy at the Royal Rumble....I think as far as meaningful, intense, story driven, angles are concerned, Matt and Jeff fueding makes much more sense.

It would really have no meaning if Christian was the one behind Jeff's accidents. Not to mention, it would have raised countless questions that the WWE would just ignore or answer poorly like they always do.

Look, when people in the biz like Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, Lance Storm, and others, constantly and publicly question the WWE's direction....you really can't make an agrument that Internet wrestling fan's kill the industry. As we've said over and over, Internet fans are such a small number of the population that it's virtually impossible for us to impact the WWE on such a large scale. Especially in such a manner that would cause them to have to recraft every idea they have and, as a result, ruin the product.

WWE has a lot of problems. Kizarny may be totally unrelated to you, but to me, it's just another example of how the WWE is suffering with ideas.

Kizarny and other characters with no appeal, characters who are thrust into our faces and down our throats for months but then suddenly disappear and ultimately end up released, Edge losing and winning a title in the same night, feuds that abruptly end with no solid explaination, extremely short and pointless title reigns (I believe over the past four months or so, the WWE and World titles swapped hands at least once a month), TV matches that only last 3 minutes.....the WWE is suffering. It's not the Internet community that's causing the WWE to suffer, it's a combination of things; one of which being no true competition. TNA is an alternative, but not the kind WCW was when the surged onto the Monday night scene. WWE needs to have a serious threat before we'll see an improvement and, at the rate TNA is going, that competition will not be anywhere in the near future.
 
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want Christian to have attacked Jeff Hardy at the Royal Rumble....I think as far as meaningful, intense, story driven, angles are concerned, Matt and Jeff fueding makes much more sense.

It would really have no meaning if Christian was the one behind Jeff's accidents. Not to mention, it would have raised countless questions that the WWE would just ignore or answer poorly like they always do.

dnt matt help jeff in a way at armageddon to win the wwe title? wouldnt jeff recognise his own brothers car as he mentions the type and colour of car to the police man, my american geography isnt the best but i dont think there are too many people driving about in expensive cars in camron, north carolina. why would matt attack him on the stairwell in jeffs wwe title attempt, help him win in the 2nd, and then attack him in the 3rd again?
 
One of the highest rated segments in wrestling history was the Jericho debut...which was leaked on the internet, so it is indeed WWE's fault why it sucks now. Always had the talent, but let guys like HHH, Taker, Michaels, and etc. go over these talents which means they could never be viewed as a credible threat.
 
Simply put, it IS the WWE's fault.

They have gotten lazy and unoriginal. They are stretching to come up with some of the most God awful stuff. As I mentioned before, Kizarny was pretty weak. Rumors claim it's his in-ring skills which are the reason he hasn't been on TV, but quite frankly I blame the ridiculous character given to him. Yet, you, based on how you continuously try to explain this, are essentially telling me that Kizarny is the result of Internet fans who have caused the WWE to become completely lazy with their writing and character direction/development. Yeah, good luck selling that to anyone on this site.

Story lines are becoming predictable....even for those who don't visit sites like these....they are either drawn out too long or cut to short. Here's a great example:

Remember when Viscera was fueding with Charlie Hass because Hass accidently knocked Lilian Garcia off the ring apron, thus hurting her? Now, remember when after three or so weeks of matches, they suddenly were friends? How did the WWE explain this? Well, during a backstage interview, when questioned how they could suddenly be friends after such a heated feud, they replied with....

"We could tell you.....but we won't!"

Wow....clever. So clever on the part of the WWE. Now how about the Kelly-Kelly and Kane angle? How would it unfold? Who would Kelly's secret lover be? Well when WWE changed their minds on the whole thing, they made it Randy Orton and for the sake of killing the angle before it really gained any interest or momentum, he axed her. Ironically enough, a few weeks later, Randy Orton mentions how he has recently become a father. So apparently this little trist with Kelly-Kelly has no consequences. Then, Kane just stopped caring. Great. Great story....man was I hooked.

It's quite sad that even storylines from the late 80s and early 90s (when much of the WWE was cartoon-like) were so much more developed, entertaining, and dare I say more unpredicable.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excuse me, as this will be a long opinion expressed by me. I don't know what percentage of internet wrestling fans there are. But I don't get the attitude, if he has it, that Vince scraps things because of the internet.

Take the Christian thing for example. So what if fans expected Christian to be Jeff's attacker. If I was Vince McMahon, that would make me want to do it more. You know why? Because I would think "If the fans expect this, and are very enthusiastic about it, it means that they will "buy" the storyline, leading to PPV buys, when Jeff Hardy and Christian feud, meaning fans will tune in to see them face off on Smackdown etc". It is actually a guarantee that your idea will be over with the fans, leading to buy rates for PPVs. I mean, doesn't Vince claim that he gives the "WWE fans (oh sorry, WWE Universe, what they want")?

I have heard that two examples of an internet rumour not being true, whether it was just a stir or was pulled, was that there was going to be a match between MNM and Matt Hardy and a mystery partner at "No Way Out 2005". It was heavily speculated that Matt's mystery partner was Jeff, who had just reopened negotiations with the WWE. It built and built, and everyone was craving an MNM vs the Hardys at "No Way Out". So, imagine the disappointment when Matt's partner turned out to be- Tatanka- the WWF Red Indian character from the 90's, and the match sucked accordingly, totally thanks to Tatanka's poor ringwork. It was specualted that Jeff was going to be the partner, but was pulled because everyone guessed.

Another example is that,after Vince fired Bischoff as "on-screen GM" , he said that he would announce a new GM the next week. The next week came, and he weakly claimed that the WWE fans were the GMs , as the matches were put on for them. Or is it because the internet guessed who his intended GM would be. It was rumoured to be JBL.

JBL was out injured, and was originally touted to go to raw to be GM (and he would have done a great job), but everyone guessed right, so instead JBL was moved to commentate on Smackdown (which he also did a good job of), and Raw had no GM. I heard too, that they made Mike Adamle GM for the simple reason that "no-one would ever guess Mike Adamle as GM".

I am not blaming the internet fans for this. I am saying that the fans would have not only accepted this, but being big into it. So why would WWE cut off its nose to spite its face, just to trick people? WWE should just do these things, and then swerve us elsewhere. Or have more than one possible idea (such as have three storylines for Jeff, with a different attacker in each, such as Christian, Matt and ? ! That way, no-one knows for sure which way WWE will go, but be creative enough that whoever the attacker turned out to be, people would be shocked.
 
It could have been a rental car, since many WWE stars use rental cars when doing shows. Also, if Matt wanted Jeff not to know who ran him down, he could have hired a car and done it.
 
Ok I don't want to come off like I don't think you made a valid point but you are completely wrong in every single way to the point that you even failed to grasp how a "internet wrestling fan" as you put it thinks. Online users can predict any thing, i could right now, assuming i had the information, tell you every wrestlemania match and their out comes and every one who read would still watch as long as(and this is important) the story's were interesting enough and the event had enough emotion. No one watches prowrestling to be surprised by the out come and to be shocked by a match. Did people know Christian was coming back? Yes, people knew, people even knew when and how, that didn't make them want to see it less, if any thing more people read that he was going to return at the royal rumble and bought the royal rumble because of it. I know that I purchased the royal rumble only because i read that RVD was backstage and that Christian would be returning, if i had not read those facts i would not of bought the pay per view. When Matt Hardy came out I was surprised and didn't see it coming yes, i was also disappointed and let down. I tuned in to see a story I thought of as being interesting and entertaining, I feel the new direction with Matt instead of Christian ruined the story line so much so that its a match i probably wont be paying attention to at wrestlemania and a storyline I know I'm not watching smackdown to follow. That's not to say that the element of surprise is not good, if something surprises me and it is a positive and enthralling direction for the show than i am all for it. Case and point, when Cena came back at last years rumble and won i was very excited. I am not a fan of John Cena and though i think hes talented i feel he is just boring to include in story lines, but when he returned to win the rumble it was such a good move that made me want to see where it goes. The surprise with Matt is not the same way, it doesn't make me want to watch, it doesn't even provoke emotion from me because its such a stereotypical way for storyline to go I've seen the same thing done a thousand times with different faces. It's ridiculous to blame the internet for WWE's product being shitty, its fully WWE's falt. WWE makes tv shows that needs to produce good products to keep people watching. They wouldn't change the direction "24" or "lost" is going just because people on the internet predicted it and people wouldn't not watch just because they already know the out come. It's 100% WWE's fault and I partially wish 100% of the WWE audience was educated about this industry because maybe than we can finally tell them to stop blaming us and start just worrying about the fucking quality of their product.
 
this is good, i like this. on one hand, its being said that wwe is killing itself. but on the other, its being said that internet fans are somewhat ruining the product. i will say yes and no to both answers. yes because, internet fans influence the decisions on wwe writers because they think they need to throw a curve ball every mounth because we ruin their plot thus makeing a bad curve (such as mike a. as GM, big fail). and no because the writers could make the most perdicable story, but have so much potetial to make it a emotionaly good story (thus hbk and y2j). if there was someway to balence the argument insted of this is what should happen, then we can make a logical answer on how wwe and internet fans can find a loop-hole in the way we think of logic and reson in wwe without people in the wwe to make a rush descion because of internet fans.
 
Before i go into this it like to xplane i have nothing againt wrestling sites and enjoy the forums but my point has come across wrong. im not saying its today that wrestling is going downhill, im simply trying to say that with all the internet forums and such out there its only a matter of time before wrestling cant surprise us anymore as the % of wrestling internet fans increases :p ok heres my opinion.

its not the wwes fault that their programming has become somewhat not reaching their potential, its all of us, the wrestlezone and other sites users. the christian angle was spoiled by people finding out he was in contract talks therefore to keep it a surprise matt hardy had to turn heel, the y2j debut was spoiled by us reading these news reports somewhat knowing ther was talks between both sides. other angles and such have been spoiled such as stone cold returing on several occasions, nearly every wrestlemania match is spoiled before the angle starts ( undertaker vs hbk for example), anything with hogan, jeff hardy hit and run incident, hall of fame are a few that i thought off the top of my head, maybe if fans want more of a surprise and better quality wrestling in the future are sites like wrestlezone the way forward?

I don't get it, what is the big deal about "surprises" ?
Personally, I'd find it a big surprise if they did something that made sense.
Got watch a James Bond flick, there are no surprises there at all, Bond
wins at the end, yet his movies still draw, because people WANT to see
Bond win, it's no surprise.
Why should the WWE be so concerned about "surprises" when their whole
creative effort is basically predictable and stale ?
HHH vs Orton is something new ? Cena vs Edge ?
UT vs Shawn Michaels ? Gee, forget about surprises, it feels more like
a rerun.
They didn't change Christian's debut plans because of a spoiled "surprise"
it has more to do with internal politics than anything else.
The Hardies have been put into a feud that nobody wanted to see, and
Christian is in ECW babysitting new talent, all these guys have been undermined, and the "spoiled surprise" has nothing to do with, it has more
to do about who the company wants to shove down the people's throats.
I blame the WWE and I believe they lie, and THAT is no surprise.
 
I know where you coming from with this pal but what are we meant to do.Surely WWE fans wanna know whats happening on SD tonight as much as say NBA fans wanna know whats the line up when the Lakers play the Cavaliers tomorrow.
Id be the first to admit.I read the spoilers.So when the spoiler becomes reality ,its like Sur-prise-Not! I also feel Christians post Rumble arrival & the Elimination Chamber results were PartlY meant to spoil the spoilers!
But what,s the soloution.No more Forums? Get rid of them (& the Chat Rooms) & see how popular WWE & the internet as a whole becomes.From WM Forums TO WWE.com.What goes round comes round..
If the day ever arrives when a spoiler says "Angle rejoins WWE" (just an example!) & the Forums attitude is So What! TheN I think its time for vince to start worrying!
 
Don`t you think that the person has the choice to read or not to read??
It`s like any TV show. Of course there`s spoilers all over the internet. Does this means those shows are not surprising anymore?? Hell no...many just use surprises to keep audience and it`s still working in 2009 and will still work in in the future. People can choose not to read. Some people hate spoilers and avoid them. If writing is bad, it`s bad...don`t blame internet.
 
its not the wwes fault that their programming has become somewhat not reaching their potential, its all of us, the wrestlezone and other sites users.

You forgot the most important thing which is inevitability. Nothing lasts forever. Back in the day everything seemed new because it was but with so much new programming at such a frequency, that surprises were going to be more of a rarity even if they weren’t reported on websites. Speaking only about WWE, there are roughly 156 shows per year not including ppvs and for years there have been at least 104 shows per year and back in the day 52 when there was just Raw (though shows like Heat were around and at one point very legit.) The only comparable things that air as many shows per year that are scripted as soap operas, which air more but from what I hear the same basic concepts are constantly being used like baby switches, returns from the dead, etc. Shows that have a lot less programming than WWE start to lose their luster and go off the air or go off before they can lose their luster yet WWE keeps on going. So that attributes to the lack of creativity, the repetition, and the lack of most surprises being truly shocking to the degree that they were back in the day.

If something happens then fans want it to be upstaged cause anything less will still probably be exciting but not as exciting as the previous thing. At some point upstaging the previous thing(s) became and becomes difficult so inevitably things aren’t as good for those things. That is irrelevant to the internet and while I agree that it’s not WWE’s fault as even the greatest of writers can’t suddenly take away from the fact that so many things have been done already but I disagree that the internet has the same degree of relevance as you think that it will.

That's how the average, non internet fan can look at it. The fans that do have the internet and the fans who find out information from those who have it do make up a minority like you guys said but that minority still can be enough to create a certain perception of the product, not enough to alter anything, but to still have the perception. People have their chants, make their signs, have their discussions in arenas, etc based on what they might have read, then other people pick up on it, and then knowledge that only the minority knows becomes something that a majority of in arena people know. Then people at home may hear a chant from the people in the arena who learned their info form the minority of internet fans in attendance, wonder why, ask someone who has the internet, and then info is known far beyond just the "minority."

With that in mind, I don't think that the internet is as insignificant as some of you guys say but I also don't think that it's as harmful as others say either. A lot of people chanted "****" at Lita after the Edge situation was reported and I'm not sure if we should believe that the only people chanting that (not counting the followers who chanted just to chant) weren't aware of the situation even if they didn't have the internet. Maybe they showed up in the arena and heard people talking about it for example. However, an example like that shows how if something is revealed online WWE can use it to their advantage instead of it "ruining" WWE.
 
I am only double posting because my other post is already a novel and I figure that it it’s twice as long it will be ignored.

the christian angle was spoiled by people finding out he was in contract talks therefore to keep it a surprise

The fact that he appeared to be gone from TNA also made it clear that he might return to WWE. Even without the internet people are smart enough to conclude that maybe it was just a TNA angle or maybe he'd show up in WWE.

the y2j debut was spoiled by us reading these news reports somewhat knowing ther was talks between both sides.

It was ruined in the respect that a lot of people found out faster but several things could have still created the same conclusion.


In both cases and many others the internet does reveal things in a more factual light but common sense can still lead to a lot of speculation.

nearly every wrestlemania match is spoiled before the angle starts ( undertaker vs hbk for example),

That's a definite spoiler but it doesn't take away from the fact that the actual angles, how the matches go about, etc aren't spoiled so there is plenty to be desired.So while the initial concept is spoiled, the overall situation is not.

anything with hogan, jeff hardy hit and run incident, hall of fame are a few that i thought off the top of my head, maybe if fans want more of a surprise and better quality wrestling in the future are sites like wrestlezone the way forward?

The reality, as stated by others, is that sites exist and people like to go to them. Even when the internet does "ruin" things for people since they become aware of knowledge, it doesn't have to ruin the viewing of the surprise. For example most people assumed that Orton would win the rumble so it probably wasn't much of a surprise but I'm sure that most agree that even if a predictable or alleged outcome is known, it's still fun to see how it comes about. So the internet sites may give us certain knowledge of things if we choose to know about it, but it doesn't have to "ruin" anything.
 

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