Does the WWE need a martyr **caution: Dark thread**

[travistragic]

As a AAA afficionado, I'm upset about the death of Abismo Negro, especially just coming off the heels of Test. And I don't want to offend anybody, but this is a very darkly themed post. Do you think that WWE needs one final martyr before it changes the way it does business?

With the workload and the constant young deaths of a lot of guys, I think it's time that WWE, and wrestling in general, changes its ways.

I was thinking about Benoit, and please don't misunderstand me as actually wanting this to happen, but don't you think if that happened to Triple H, if he went crazy and murdered Stephanie, his children and himself, that Vince would finally get the big picture and cut down on the amount of live events it does per year?

It's a horrible thought, but would it ultimately help the health of other wrestlers? Would it help the business survive in general, not just figuratively, but in the actual literal sense, survive? We've seen death after death after death in just the past few years, we all open up the WZ hoping not to find another one. What will it take before the business and us as fans wake up and see how terrible things are in the business right now? Obviously Benoit's tragedy wasn't enough.

I apologize again if I've offended anyone.

 

[LokiCobain]

I'm glad you posted a post that's more than just bashing TNA or something ridiculous. I think you have a great point. If the WWE gets pressure from outside of the WWE (the regular media, like it did with Benoit), then it would force them to change. Even the fake Jeff Hardy attack in Boston for Survivor Series got attention from the actual media.

I don't think you should have to apologize for this post. It's an unfortunate truth that tragedies often lead to a better future.

 

[Jersey Wannabe]

I have often thought that the WWE is becoming more and more like a regular television show.

With that being said, i do believe that cutting down the number of live events every year would help.
Although the schedule nowadays is not like it was in the 70s and 80s, it still has to be extremely tough for the performers and their familys.
Imagine only being home for 2 days a week, every week for 15-20 years.



Also, I am a firm believer in the principle of supply and demand.
Meaning the lower availability of a certain product leads to increased demand for it.
How many of us actually order every ppv or go to every event in our area?

When a person is away from the people that mean the most to them so often, they are going to turn to other things to make them happy,be it drugs, alcohol or women.

Ive actually thought it might be good if the WWe gave all performers the month of DEcmber off.
Alot of people are just too busy to watch tv around the holidays and it would be a nice way to show appreciation to the wrestlers.
That month the Tv stations that show WWE programming could show Best of ... shows and still keep the viewers that are going to watch anyway.

 

[RawIsRamsey]

Just cause someone doesn't die doesn't mean what happens to them wouldn't change the business. Which do you think would have a more lasting effect: the death of a mid-carder or the suspension of someone like John Cena? Or Undertaker? Hell, what if Triple H got released? Wrap your heads around any of those three names and a suspension/release and tell me it wouldn't change the business slightly.

As for martyr? It would only shatter the business if the headlines read "Straight Edge wrestler CM Punk found dead due to drug overdose."

 

[travistragic]

Wow, I kind of like RIR's viewpoint even if I don't personally agree with it. I think it's sad that he might be right, that maybe there isn't a martyr to change things, only to worsen them, but I disagree with the notion of a suspension, and doubt even Triple H's release would really drive the point home.

We've become disillusioned, apathetic to a degree, that we get "kind of sad" when bad things happen, but we still miss the point. Our generation of wrestlers are dying, quickly, before the age of 40. We have Hot Rods and Snukas and Steamboats running around, getting involved in Jericho's match at WM25, but take that angle at WM35, who in our generation is going to be alive to fight that match?

We get up in arms against some things: drugs, steroids, etc, but we don't see that it's the business itself that is murdering our stars, the business that makes it so. This is bullshit and I'm frankly sick of it. I love wrestling, it's a big part of my life, but what's happening right now in our pasttime is getting fucked up. Screw A-Rod and his baseball fans, our stars as professional wrestling fans are dying. Do you see Roger Clemens dead in a river? you see Jose Canseco murdering his family? A-Rod hangs himself? Our joy in life is getting dark. You think a John Cena suspension is a bigger deal than a midcard dying? That's your bag, and on a depressing note, probably even true, that doesn't change what's happening right now.

 

[The Bearded One]

Another big time death would destroy the WWE's image, as if it isn't bad enough already. They may get the message that they need to back down the schedules, but it would be too late by then. Congress was demanding to meet with VKM after the whole Benoit ordeal, but just imagine the backlash that would occur if the same thing happened again. It wouldn't, and shouldn't, matter where somebody is on the card to make the impact that the media would want. they would be calling for McMahon's, and possibly Dixie Carter's, heads. The media would try to bring the WWE to an end, and that is something that it would not be able to recover from.

The WWE does not need a martyr, they need somebody with balls. They need a wrestler to step up and speak his mind about the schedule. Have a wrestlers strike. AS much as it would suck for us, the fans, it would help the health of the performers in the long haul. Vince would realize that he is over working his performers and try to accomidate them.

But in McMahon's defense, the wrestlers know what they are getting themselves into when they sign the contract. They know they will be on the road 300 plus days a year. If they didn't want to do it, they shouldn't have signed up.

 

[timmy872]

I have always thought that, as dark and horrible this is; John Cena, became so big, so quickly. What if John Cena died due to drugs or due to simple health issues?

I have always thought that he has just becomes this huge Icon, he is at such a pinnicle, there is no one in WWE more popular than him. He dies, then what would happen to WWE? They would take a sizable hit for sure, the way Vince has PUSHED him into our faces, then Vince's number one man dies of drugs or natural causes. Imagine the investigation..

The other name is Jeff Hardy. Jeff has a history of drug problems. He has become bigger and more popular since returning a few years back, I truely believe that whichever Hardy goes over at Wrestlemania will be the break out. I can imagine it will be Jeff. If Jeff died, Vince kept on giving him more and more chances with the company, Jeff always seems very distant. If you watch thehardyshow then it is obvious that both the Hardys are very strange and individual, Jeff moreso than Matt. Jeff has a distant relationship with his fans from what I see, his promo's are short and inconsistant, yet on the Hardyshow he talks so much and so charasmatically.

Just so people know, I don't wish this on either of these great competitors, its just pure specualation and may own thoughts that I felt like sharing with you, no bad intentions at all.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

Its funny i posted a thread saying should wwe ban wrestlers from the hall for using roids and seemed no one cared if they did or not.....honestly lets say jeff hardy dies yes it will be in the news but it wont be enoug to change his mind....now if hhh or hbk went off and killed themselves and there families it would send a message to everyone....i mean hunter is in the mcmahon family and the last person u suspect of killing his family is the very christan shawn michaels....and thats the sad thing...now dont get me vince has shown some caring with the legends scheduling....but its still not working....i read an interview here where kurt said he would pop 20-50 pills a day people in the wrestling business have to sit down and make a better plan to help these guys

 

[travistragic]

Levy and Klucsaritis sued WWE for not being considered employees but as outside
contractors, and so they get no rights, no benefits, and you know what, they're right.

Yeah, pro wrestlers get paid a lot of money, they can afford their own benefits if they spend their money right; fuck that. They should be given insurance, benefits, and, more than any of that, paid time off, and if WWE doesn't like the proposal, just pay them less. It's better in the long run to cut everybody's wages a bit and give them insurance and benefits. Fuck, if WWE was like any other normal business they'd realize that with reduced wages but included health insurance benefits, they'd make even more money than paying everybody so much more without the benefits. That's the whole fucking nature of why companies do that to begin with. but of course you could say, well, given the nature of the jobs the insurance premiums would be higher, and etc. and blah-blah-blah, but lower the live events, limit PPV events, and you know what, you have a publicly respectable business and your big money makers won't go crazy and die.

The only problem is that instead of being a respectable business, the WWE for all it's fanfare and globalizationist mindsets is still just a highly successful circus run by highly-paid carnies.

 

[Razor Blade Dream]

The business I feel has slipped into a dark age where no one really cares about the product and they care more about a "dead pool" after one wrestler dies. It is constantly a guessing game of "who will drop dead next?" I don't think we need a "dark martyr." We do need, as someone said above, a wrestler to tell it like it is. The last guy to do that, to my recollection, was Jesse Ventura when he wanted a wrestler union and Vince shut him down on it. Jesse was right though, their needs to be a union and some way to handle their jobs better. Wrestlers are seriously like child laborers in some third-world country. Yeah, they get money and fame, but their bodies are being abused and they have no break until they are injured and even then they are let go because, "creative has nothing for them at the time." I said to my friend that even UFC fighters get time off between fights. Wrestlemania should be the Super Bowl or World Series, that is the last match of the season and they come back around Summerslam for the new season. "Our season never ends" but our wrestlers do.

 

[adamjv80]

No, sorry they dont need another martyr. This BUSINESS(said loosely) that i love, has had enough losses. People want to get bigger faster stronger, and theyre going to do whatever it takes. Just like the alcoholic or the addict, just one more drink, just one more pill. Things will NEVER change. I read an incredible story about how Tony Mandarich(former OL for Green Bay and Indy) who was considerd the best line prospect ever. He talked about aqll the lies he told, and how he used roids, and how he fooled the testers. I dont doubt the same thing happens in WWE. This is substituting one addiction for another. Look at the recent news surrounding Anna Nicole Smith. I could go on and on, its an EXTREMELY personal subject to me. If someone wants something enough, theyre going to do whatever it takes to get what they want, and no martyrs, rehabs, suspensions, releases, or deaths will change that. There will be more deaths soon. There will be another Chris Benoit. If you dont tame the beast, it devours you.

 

[bulldog76]

Interesting thing is, many wrestlers have stated that they needed time off and Vince gave it to them. From what I read, Edge wasn't hurt or anything. He asked for some time off, did his match with Taker at Hell in the Cell, and then took 3 months off. I really wish Cena would do the same. Not because I hate Cena because I dont but I worry that he is going to push himself to far he wakes up at age 45-50 has issues getting out of bed.

You don't have to go with an off-season. Rotate wrestlers in and out. Fans don't get sick of one wrestler as quickly, people get needed time off, injuries have a chance of healing without surgery, and newer/younger stars get a chance to prove themselves on the next level. That was something I kind of liked about WCW. One guy comes in, has a nice run for a few months, and goes away for a month or two.

The only problem I see with this happening is how wrestlers are paid. No Im not talking benefits. Although, some kind of seminar for proper money management as a wrestler wouldn't hurt. I think a lot of wrestlers who are trying to prove theirselves or maybe hold on to their spot won't want to take the time off. They may fear losing money, momentum, or spot on the card. But to keep wrestlers performing at peak levels, minimizing major injuries and their severity, keeping fans open to new talent and not shoving someone they may not like down their throat or ruining someone they like from overexposure (for me that was Triple H in 2005) could be hugely beneficial.

 

[bulldog76]

As far as the benefits go, that is what the NFL is dealing with right now; even though it is pretty much for the former players. Some businesses will offer benefits. My company doesn't pay the most but does offer the best benefits in the area I work. Others could care less for the benefits. There have been people at my company turn them down. Unfortunately, one has been diagnosed with cancer and has been out for over a year. (I urge you, if offered, take something.) They want the money. There are some industries like the WWE or the NFL where the appeal of having that job is more important than the benefits to the employee. It is not until later after the money is gone that suddenly the benefits are valued. I think some kind of seminar maybe with older veterans like Jericho, Big Show, Taker or Finlay speak could help people manage money without having to cough up all of the money for benefits.

Im not saying it is a bad idea, but don't believe that enough people that actually wrestle are as concerned about the benefits.

 

[adamjv80]

Originally posted by bulldog 76:
(Interesting thing is, many wrestlers have stated that they needed time off and Vince gave it to them. From what I read, Edge wasn't hurt or anything. He asked for some time off, did his match with Taker at Hell in the Cell, and then took 3 months off. I really wish Cena would do the same. Not because I hate Cena because I dont but I worry that he is going to push himself to far he wakes up at age 45-50 has issues getting out of bed. Interesting thing is, many wrestlers have stated that they needed time off and Vince gave it to them. From what I read, Edge wasn't hurt or anything. He asked for some time off, did his match with Taker at Hell in the Cell, and then took 3 months off. I really wish Cena would do the same. Not because I hate Cena because I dont but I worry that he is going to push himself to far he wakes up at age 45-50 has issues getting out of bed. )

1. Couple of things here. Idealistically, this is a GREAT idea. I thought it was awesome on Edges part to do what he did, and it will help with the longevity of his career. Even a guy like Chrfistian, who sort of did the same thing by going to TNA and working a reduced schedule. Problem is, there are guys like Kurt Angle(whether you can believe him is an issue for another day) have stated previously that he asked for time off, was denied due to injuries to other wrestlers and they couldnt lose another main-eventer, which he claims is one of the reasons he left for TNA.

2. There are the young guys, who are required to bust their asses to get to the top. Like I said, they'll take any shortcut too to get ahead. Look at all the developmental wrestlers who get suspended for violating the wellness policy. Its a lose-lose scenario. If you dont bust your ass, someone takes your spot. But when you do, you need other substances, whether it be performance enhancers or painkillers to get through to the next day. Sadly, there are few genetic freaks like a Cena who can do what they do, and to date, have nothing bad happen to him. But like Bulldog said, its probably only a matter of time. And its a damn shame. No benefits, no union, no insurance tie these guys hands. And Vince will just find the next guy to take his place.

 

[Ghostboy259]

Benoit being my favorite wrestler, it was sad what happened to him. Unfortunaltly, Vince wont listen to the facts, and therefore his Death didn't really catch Vince's attention. I hope it won't be like this before Vince realizes, but once we lose a main eventer, or even somone just starting to get there way up, maybe, Just maybe, Vince will realize.

 

[bulldog76]

2. There are the young guys, who are required to bust their asses to get to the top. Like I said, they'll take any shortcut too to get ahead. Look at all the developmental wrestlers who get suspended for violating the wellness policy. Its a lose-lose scenario. If you dont bust your ass, someone takes your spot. But when you do, you need other substances, whether it be performance enhancers or painkillers to get through to the next day. Sadly, there are few genetic freaks like a Cena who can do what they do, and to date, have nothing bad happen to him. But like Bulldog said, its probably only a matter of time. And its a damn shame. No benefits, no union, no insurance tie these guys hands. And Vince will just find the next guy to take his place.

Yeah, that is the second part of my quote: too much to lose from any position. Look at how hard it was for Hogan to let go. Austin. Triple H. Yet if you are young, you lose any momentum you had. There is too much to lose by taking time off. That is why Vince would have to make it policy. Take time off. Go away. Rest. Relax. Have some fun. Another benefit that could come with taking time off, is refreshment. Look at how Jericho controls the crowd. He has always been a great crowd worker but now he controls the crowd. Angle couldn't get a word out because fans cheered "What?" Yet, I read where Jericho said he learned to control the crowd while away. I looked for that this past Monday on RAW and the instant he started talking (once he actually came out) the crowd stopped and listened. They take in his every word. Reinventing yourself is a good thing. Taker did it. Jericho did it. Hogan did it. Christian did it before going to TNA.

But I have watched wrestling for 25 years (since I was 1 or 2). I have learned that every good business evolves. WWE has. I have learned to grow with it and appreciate the good. But from hearing about David Von Erich right after I started watching to my favorite Kerry shooting himself when I was 11 to Chris Benoit and everything in between, Im sick of the tragedy and do not care to hear about another martyr.

 

[shadowlaw85]

I myself will express my views like everyone else here n I hope not 2 offend any1 in the process....one thing that's been on my mind is benoit...he was one of my fav wrestlers and despite wat he did I think he was one of the best to ever lace up a pair up boots and its sad to see that everything he has worked for was flushed down the toilet because of his actions....with that being said if wwe wouldn't be on the road so much things like this wouldn't happen...chris and his wife had issues dealing with their son that had autism....now being a person that works with people that has autism I can see that it is very hard to deal with this type of thing everyday....also me bein a father myself I wouldn't want 2 be away from my kids for a week and some of these wrestlers have 2 be gone on the road almost everyday and that's hard for the wrestlers and their families as well in fact I'm pretty sure a lot of them got divorces because of the hectic traveling that the wrestlers have to do....like someone mentioned before,yes they know what they got into when they signed the contract but at the same time vince needs 2 be more considerate when it comes to his workers as well as their families

 

[DC24]

This is a great topic and I agree; I don't want anybody to die anymore but it will have to take major star for anything to change honestly; a HBK,HHH,Taker or Cena. But I don't Vince will change his ways he thinks he's smater than everyboy else and thats why his programs ratings are dropping going into there biggest event of the year. But we will see.

 

[adamjv80]

This is a great topic, because everyone can relate to it. Id challenge anyone to tell me their life in some way, whether directly or indirectly, by substance and abuse, and the fallout that comes from it. And I dont think that even an HHH, Cena, or even an HBK would be enough. Benoit and Guerrero werent enough. They may not have had the star power of the aforementioned, but dammit, they were BIG names. And it hasnt make a difference. I love WWE, love it. Benoit was one of my favorites, one of the greats, and belongs in the hall of fame, period. He gave all he had to the business he loved. And what it gave back to him was a demanding schedule, a demented brain, and turned him into a killer. I agree 100% with bulldog: we dont need another martyr. Vince will never change, its going to be up to the wrestlers to re-invent themselves and do what they have to do they stay healthy. Unfortunately, that luxury is only more readily available for wrestlers with more time in. I wish Benoit and Guerrerro would have. Hbk does. Who I feel for is the young guys, because alot of them have no chance in the long run.