Do we, the IWC, have more power than we realize?

[J Fine]

A lot of people shoot down the concept that the WWE (and really any wrestling promotion for that matter) doesn't look at wrestling forums and have their own agenda. Lots of ideas are tossed around by thousands of users that are anywhere from completely ridiculous to actually being credible, not to mention discussing spoilers. Realistically, is the IWC impacting wrestling more than anybody realizes? Let's look at a few things to help boost this debate:

-The WWE itself is a big company with hundreds of employees. At least one of these guys sitting at their desks at headquarters is doing research and development, just like any other company, and with technology the way it is and blogging, posting, etc at an all time high, it's quite obvious that SOMEONE is looking at our posts. Hell it would be irresponsible for WWE not to know what their fanbase is up to...

-Storylines have changed due to spoilers being leaked and discussed on the internet. Just look at the Hardy feud. As I recall, Christian was to make his debut as the guy behind the attacks and when that spoiler was revealed, they replaced him with Matt and started something that is still going today.

-The WWE created its own set of forums for WWE fans to chat. It's sure as hell not WZ but there's still something to be said for that. Back to what I was saying before, someone in management is watching.

So, are wrestling promotions listening to us? Are our wack concepts and loooooong ass posts being read and turned into future storylines? How much power do we, the IWC, really have?

 

[NaturallyPricele$$]

No.

The internet wrestling community makes up less than 10% of wrestling fans. Does any company market or change their products to accommodate 10% of their customer base? Absolutely not, that would be insane. Now I'm sure the powers that be have someone that scans wrestling sites and look into what is being written but its probably some college intern that takes 5 minutes out of their day when their not busy making coffee or copies. Every now and then they may change a story line to swerve everyone but for the most part the IWC has no effect on wrestling.

If the IWC was so powerful, MVP and John Morrison would be fighting for the WWE title, John Cena would be a heel, and TNA would cease to exist.

 

[FromTheSouth]

No.

Yes. I have to agree that someone is looking. I don't think they steal our booking ideas. But I don't think CM Punk would have ever won a WWE Heavyweight title with out his IWC support. There are always IWC digs. People make jokes about five star matches and the like, on both shows. I think we can at least acknowledge that some is looking.

The internet wrestling community makes up less than 10% of wrestling fans. Does any company market or change their products to accommodate 10% of their customer base? Absolutely not, that would be insane.

One diet coke is sold for every ten Coca Colas.

Now I'm sure the powers that be have someone that scans wrestling sites and look into what is being written but its probably some college intern that takes 5 minutes out of their day when their not busy making coffee or copies. Every now and then they may change a story line to swerve everyone but for the most part the IWC has no effect on wrestling.

And I almost 100% sure it is Joey Styles and his staff that does it. They wouldn't have put someone like him, with all his other talents (booking, writing) on the website without some sort of ulterior motive. I think the good ideas and most popular buzz go to him, he filters through them and reports to Hayes and McMahon.

If the IWC was so powerful, MVP and John Morrison would be fighting for the WWE title,

Both are/have been getting pushed. Look at the last year of champions. CM Punk won his first title. Jeff Hardy won his first title. Chris Jericho won his first title in ages. Edge is constantly in the picture. These guys are internet favorites. It's not so out of the realm. Probably coincidence, but it's worth a second look.

John Cena would be a heel, and TNA would cease to exist.

They can't turn John Cena. They are saving it for a Hogan-esque time, when his level of mainstream notoriety is at it's peak.

And, the internet isn't completely against TNA. They tend to love the wrestling, and the booking and writing are far better than when Shark Boy was the most over guy on the show.

 

[ronthony717]

First off.. What exactly is iwc? Lol I'm prob one of them but never knew the initials.. But what I can say is yeah iwc might add up to 10% of wrestling fan base but its a group with great ideas and will not hold it in.. I do believe that there are people from all companies that check out the boards of all kinds to see what the fans have to say and maybe catch an idea or not..

Like mentioned before big storyline changed because we knew about christian and spoke bout it and then some knew bout matt hardy and vince was mad.. Just reported is that it was suggested at a meeting to push cena as a heel and vince and co. were not happy about it.. Fans spoke highly on jericho, christian, rvd, CM Punk and Orton to get main event pushes and title and it happened.. Wonder where those ideas origionally came from? Lol

Obviously not always do our ideas hit the screen but when vince or jerrett wants to do something different and not like them it might be a chance that they have others look at what is being said and then try it out to see if we are right or not..

But there's only one way to find out.. Just keep placing some really great ideas out with realistic background and everything and watch the shows to see if it'll happen..

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

First off.. What exactly is iwc?

Internet Wrestling Community..... at least that's what i've always thought it was

But what I can say is yeah iwc might add up to 10% of wrestling fan base but its a group with great ideas and will not hold it in.. I do believe that there are people from all companies that check out the boards of all kinds to see what the fans have to say and maybe catch an idea or not..

I find it's only natural to scan other places for ideas. Every new idea is usually derived from a previous idea. Originality is near enough dead in this day and age. In the case of pro-wrestling, they probably look at forums like this one for back-up ideas, in case a superstar entering a fued gets hurt early on, or suspended, as well as to see what ideas haven't even been considered by the IWC, and those are other ones they use for guys who have nothing to do ie The Miz.

Fans spoke highly on jericho, christian, rvd, CM Punk and Orton to get main event pushes and title and it happened.. Wonder where those ideas origionally came from? Lol

tbh, you'd be stupid NOT to push those guys. PErsonal feelings aside, those are all talent that the fans have backed from day one, and with perhaps the exception of Punk, they all had shed loads of experience and talent to work with off the starting blocks in WWE. Again, you could argue that Orton didn't, but his lineage would help to counter-act the lack of experience, and his natural talent is obvious.

Obviously not always do our ideas hit the screen but when vince or jerrett wants to do something different and not like them it might be a chance that they have others look at what is being said and then try it out to see if we are right or not..

I dunno. I doubt if i start a thread that says "Legacy should fued with Kendrick and Kennedy" and even if i manage to convince everyone on the forum that it's a good idea, i doubt Vinnie Mac would think it was a worthwhile investment. Plus when Vince decides to do something different, it usually turns out to be really twisted and messed up, or it starts well and gets worse as it goes.

But there's only one way to find out.. Just keep placing some really great ideas out with realistic background and everything and watch the shows to see if it'll happen..

Great, so all we need are some great ideas instead of creating the same threads over and over and repeating ourselves constantly, and we'll get Raw and SD! going exactly as we want them, and all the 10 year old Cena fans can go without. EXCELLENT!!!!

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

No.

The internet wrestling community makes up less than 10% of wrestling fans. Does any company market or change their products to accommodate 10% of their customer base? Absolutely not, that would be insane.

The funny thing is that I keep constantly seeing this 10% figure tossed around casually on this forum. Can you point to your source that indicates that the IWC makes up 10% of the total audience?

I have no problem endorsing that figure as long as it can be substantiated. Thanks.

 

[The Catacomb]

The funny thing is that I keep constantly seeing this 10% figure tossed around casually on this forum. Can you point to your source that indicates that the IWC makes up 10% of the total audience?

I have no problem endorsing that figure as long as it can be substantiated. Thanks.

That's what I've always wanted to know. I think it's just a guess or a number that someone made up and it stuck or people use that figure just to sound smart in forums.

Seriously, who counts all the people in the world that ever goes into all the various wrestling forums and then counts how many of them watch wrestling and then formulate a result that comes in at 10%. The only people that powerful to get that done is the governments of the world, and they're too busy keeping the aliens at Dulce and Area 51 happy so they don't kill us all.

Of course the wrestling companies read these forums. It would be stupid not to. It's kind of like a complaint box or department that stores and companies have. Yeah, they read it, but they don't have to do anything.

Keep praising or keep bitching. Hopefully, a good idea here or there does get seriously listened to. They'd just have to change it a bit to make it seem that it's their idea and they don't have to pay anyone for it.

 

[BrammaBull]

Of course they would look at forums, at the end of the day its a free way to obtain feedback, company strive for feedback to evaulate their product, with the IWC the WWE can obtain and read information about superstars and what people want to see.

If they read a 50 page rant on how crap Carlito is, will they look at talk about it? i would like to think so, the odd one off post i would like they would ignore. Like said above about CM Punk, cant see him have having won the title without the backing of the IWC, the WWE knows who can be hot and who the fans will like. As i say free feedback is something they will use for sure, be silly not to really. Whether they act on it is a different story.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

If you are indicating that people blogging and posting in online forums are influencing WWE plans and storylines, I would be strongly inclined to disagree. However, I am 99% certain that someone is monitoring online activity for WWE, it would be poor business practice not to.

I'm sure WWE has more quantifiable methods for making decisions than what's being posted online. If people online are saying things like "push X guy" and WWE sees that they don't sell any merchandise for X guy, he gets no clicks on the website, and ratings are generally lower when he appears they're certainly not saying "well people on wrestling sites like him" - wrestling sites just don't have that kind of pull. However, if some creative member sees something he/she likes online that makes sense, I'm sure that he/she either a) has thought of it and tossed the idea around as well, or b) they probably wouldn't have a problem lifting the idea provided it was decent (but likely will add their own touch to it). Also, for WWE to take action on something, they would need to have proof that those posting online are the same people buying merchandise, watching shows live, and ordering PPVs. Sure it's likely, but they're not going to rely on a "probably" scenario.

I'm sure 10% is an arbitrary number that someone just threw out there, but in reality I would imagine that that number is probably a high estimate, I bet it's actually lower than that.

The short end here is that if you think constantly posting a "push Carlito" thread or something like that will result in a push, it's not going to happen...at least not due only to wrestling forums.

 

[Scott Free]

So, are wrestling promotions listening to us? Are our wack concepts and loooooong ass posts being read and turned into future storylines? How much power do we, the IWC, really have?

Listen, it's all about money. People can rant and bitch all they want, but unless they start talking money, nobody will listen. You don't like the particular PPV that's being offered by X company ? State why, and make sure you DO NOT BUY IT ! Because if you bitch and keep buying, it don't mean a thing. 10% or whatever, any company will take notice of why a certain percentage didn't shell out the cash for their product, guaranteed !

Peace out.

 

[OIL]

I think they probably do look at the websites, and look at what news is being leaked ect, but as far as storylines are concerned due to the opinions of the ICW? No. If they changed storylines according to the ICW then they really would be stupid. Vince doesn't care about our opinions, as long as he enjoys it then he'll feed it to us on television. Heck, he may look at who the ICW supports now & again, but I highly doubt it affects him too much.

 

[ztwhite]

I realize I'm going to be the minority on this one, but I definitely think WWE and TNA look at wrestling site forums or chat rooms.

Having worked in TV for nearly ten years, every company I've worked for monitors their competition, first and foremost. But the second most important thing they look at is web traffic, especially in this day and age of media coverage, i.e. the web is more popular than newspapers, radio, and to a certain extent television.

The brass at WWE and TNA are not naive enough to believe that the only wrestling websites people visit are their own. They understand that sites like WZ provide more in depth coverage of their product than they do. Lets face it - you don't go to wwe.com to see what happened at the ECW tapings because they won't tell you - WZ will. You don't go to tna.com to see what the huge surprise announcement is that Jeremy Borash is tweeting about because they won't tell you - WZ will at least make intelligent guesses.

WWE and TNA absolutely monitor what gets reported and speculated about on WZ and in the forums. But I highly doubt it's anyone with the last name McMahon or Jarrett reading ours or WZ's stuff, but someone connected with the creative process certainly is.

The Christian / Hardy storyline is prime example number one. Sure, maybe someone thought about turning Matt against his brother, but it didn't actually come to fruition until WZ and other sites leaked the Christian angle. Further proof is the fact Matt Hardy is jobbing like always since his feud with Jeff ran its course and since they have no other direction to send Matt in, they have him interfere in the Jeff / Edge WHC match at Judgment Day. Yes, he may have received a US Title shot on Raw, but MVP pinned him clean, so what's next for the less talented Hardy ??

While I really have no idea how much influence the IWC has on the products direction, there is no doubt in my mind that it has at least one hand on the steering wheel.

 

[Mr. Black]

I'm sorry, but to say the IWC is in some way powerful is a bit ridiculous. Sure, there might be leaks every now and then, but the truth is the IWC controls nothing. Let's remember that it was heavily speculated and believed Christian would return as Jeff's attacker, but it was never confirmed, and Matt recently commented in an interview that Christian was never a part of the Hardy storyline ( though I'm sure some people will take this comment with a grain of salt).

 

[Tim_Seraphim]

Disco Douche Glen Gilbertti is the one who said the IWC makes up 10% of the audience. Knowing how he twists numbers, facts, and reality, I'll say that number is unlikely. Remember, he stated TNA is doing better than WWE because in their start on tv, they doubled their audience to a 1.0, while WWE went down to 3.0s from the Attitude era, even though the starts were in different times, and 3.0 is greater than 1.0. Point being: Glen is a fucking moron and a worthless wrestler, but I digress.
The IWC and every wrestling fan has ALL and I repeat ALL of the power, most are just too stupid to realize it. If you truly hate something, stop watching it. If you don't want to see a crapfest Pay-Per-View, don't order it. I used to order every TNA monthly Pay-Per-View when they started, and eventually each one proved to be not worth it so I stopped ordering it. Hell, the last Pay-Per-View I ordered was Wrestlemania, because of HBK & the Undertaker. If you don't like it, don't support it, and perhaps things will change and you can check back in later.

 

[NaturallyPricele$$]

The funny thing is that I keep constantly seeing this 10% figure tossed around casually on this forum. Can you point to your source that indicates that the IWC makes up 10% of the total audience?

I have no problem endorsing that figure as long as it can be substantiated. Thanks.

Take the number of hits that your average wrestling site gets in a day, ie wrestlezone.com. Compare this with the number of households that watch WWE, TNA, ROH, programming on a weekly basis. Some times it may be more than 10% sometimes less. What my point is the amount of views that actively view and participate in wrestling discussion boards is a very small percentage of the actual audience.

 

[Chadmw]

People have been saying that the IWC makes up only 5-10% of the fanbase since the late 90's. Maybe I will get flack for this, but I believe the number must be much higher than that. The Internet has grown a lot since the late 90's.

I guess it also depends on who you count in the IWC. Is it people that post everyday on forums, or is it people that just 1 or 2 times a week read the IW News. If you it is the latter than I believe the number is closer to 40-50% if not even higher. And if it is just people that post on forums and read the news everyday, I still say it is much higher than 10%

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Take the number of hits that your average wrestling site gets in a day, ie wrestlezone.com. Compare this with the number of households that watch WWE, TNA, ROH, programming on a weekly basis. Some times it may be more than 10% sometimes less. What my point is the amount of views that actively view and participate in wrestling discussion boards is a very small percentage of the actual audience.

Would a Moderator be kind enough to supply us with a percentage, based on the average number of Unique Daily Hits at Wrestlezone and divide that into the number of fans who watch Raw on average on a weekly basis?

I'm just curious so we can get a real idea of the number, as opposed to Disco Inferno taking a shot in the dark and going by the "estimated 10%". Much thanks.


Once we get an idea of what type of numbers we are looking at, then we can perhaps answer the OP's question more adequately.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

The IWC has absolutely no power when it comes to wrestling. The truth is the IWC will always watch wrestling (except for very few people in the IWC, they will watch wrestling because they LOVE IT, no matter how bad the product has gotten) and companies like TNA and WWE are really trying to play to the casual audience (people who watch wrestling because of one thing like Austin vs. McMahon) so they can make more money (at the end of the day, its about money, not about making your product better. Seriously, how does Floyd Mayweather make the product better. He was brought in to increase buyrates and nothing more).

They always have had the business of the IWC (NO MATTER WHAT) so they just forget about them and try to appeal to the masses. Even if the IWC has a much better grasp on the product than the casual fan, or even if the IWC has better grasp than TNA or WWE writers, it doesn't matter because the ideas appeal to the IWC and not to the casual fan who TNA and the WWE are trying to reach. Casual fans don't know and don't give a shit about wrestling, they just want to be entertained (and no, they are not entertained by great matches, intriguing storylines and smart booking. The casual fan wants to watch people flex (Hulk Hogan), watch people beat on their bosses (Austin), or watch 15 minutes of someone tearing into their opponents (Rock Promo's)).

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

They always have had the business of the IWC (NO MATTER WHAT) so they just forget about them and try to appeal to the masses. Even if the IWC has a much better grasp on the product than the casual fan, or even if the IWC has better grasp than TNA or WWE writers, it doesn't matter because the ideas appeal to the IWC and not to the casual fan who TNA and the WWE are trying to reach. Casual fans don't know and don't give a shit about wrestling, they just want to be entertained (and no, they are not entertained by great matches, intriguing storylines and smart booking. The casual fan wants to watch people flex (Hulk Hogan), watch people beat on their bosses (Austin), or watch 15 minutes of someone tearing into their opponents (Rock Promo's)).

Well, that's part of the problem. I consider myself to be a part of the IWC, as I post on the forums daily and I check out the newsboards several times a day.

However, at the end of the day, yes I want to be entertained. And I don't care how WWE does it, as long as I am entertained. And what is going on today is NOT entertaining me in the slightest.

And I disagree with casual fans not being interested in "intriguing storylines". I think they most definitely are interested in "intriguing storylines". However, the problem is that today's storylines are anything, but intriguing. Today's booking is anything, but smart booking. Case and point with how Big Show was booked heading into Mania.

So if me being entertained is seeing Austin come in and get in conflicts with his boss week in and week out ... then so be it. If I am entertained by the fact that an 80 year old white woman is having an affair with a black man less than half her age ... who calls himself "Sexual Chocolate", then so be it.

What is not entertaining is the amount of wrestling that is on TV today. Because today's shows are comprised of entirely too much wrestling, as it is, and not enough storyline. What makes it even worse is Vince expanding the number of shows he does and putting even more wrestling on TV. And I'll explain.

There is an old saying that "Less is More". And it is most definitely true in the wrestling business, as well.

Many in the IWC have demanded "more wrestling, more wrestling, more wrestling" ... and Vince has given you now more wrestling than ever before on his shows. Now, what has that done, exactly? I'll answer that. What it has done is long-term damage to the business.

He now essentially gives you PPV matches for free each and every week. And now, people hardly look forward to the PPV's anymore, because all they are, are more of the same of what they already get on weekly TV for free. Same thing with the House Shows ... more of the same of what they already get for free on weekly TV.

With the amount of wrestling you have on the weekly shows today, this has led to repetitive matches done over and over and over again .... so that when any two superstars fight on PPV, few people really look forward to it, because chances are they have already seen the two talents wrestle a dozen times already on Free TV.

So I blame the IWC in general, for the state of the wrestling business. But, of course, I also blame Vince McMahon for listening to the IWC, and giving you more wrestling ... when he made the mistake of deviating from his formula of success-- which was to use the weekly shows to build up and sell the storylines, so people are actually interested in the PPV feud. Now, there is so much wrestling on the weekly shows, they don't spend nearly the time they used to in investing in and building quality angles for television, like they used to.

Matches have gone from 6-8 minutes on TV to most now running 12-15 minutes. Again, more match time (and more rest holds during these matches) have taken away valuable time to build PPV angles, all because people in the IWC can't grasp the big picture of the amount of damage this has done to the product. Matches on Free TV of two superstars wrestling, won't sell another match on PPV of the same two superstars wrestling. Why? Common sense dictates that seeing these two superstars wrestle for 15 minutes or so on Free TV has taken away the intrigue of seeing the same two superstars wrestle on the PPV. So why should people bother for paying for the match, if they are only going to see it for free on TV?

With that being said, don't make it out to be that I "don't support wrestling". I have been a fan of this business for two decades now and have loved it, up until about 2005 and 2006, when WWE really began changing for the worst, as far as I am concerned.

I simply feel that it is the whole package that sold me as a fan. What that includes is:

> The wrestling
> The characters and gimmicks
> The intriguing storylines
> The Ringside Managers, who added to the drama of the matches substantially
> The humor in Face/Heel Broadcast teams
> The hype of seeing new, Big Matches on PPV's
> Audience Participation in angles


All of that stuff and more. Not JUST the wrestling, itself. What Vince has essentially turned his company into is what I view as a cross between WCW, with its lame storylines with little to no effort put into them ... and the original Ring of Honor, which was heavily wrestling-oriented. And that was not the product I fell in love with, and have been a fan of for close to two decades.

So if my philosophies are those of a Casual Fan, then so be it. But where as many in the IWC roll their eyes at some of the storylines and characters done in the past ... I roll my eyes at the IWC in return, in wanting more wrestling, wrestling, wrestling. How much actual wrestling, and the same matches done over, and over, and over, and over again can you possibly watch without getting sick of it? How many times does Randy Orton need to wrestle Triple H or does Edge have to wrestle John Cena for you to get sick and tired of it?

You can't have a wrestling product at peak performance without quality storylines and characters to help sell the product. That being said, I have no problem with what Hogan did to get over. I have no problem with what Austin did to get over. And I have no problem with what Rock did to get over. Because they ALL worked, and they all made for a Hell of a lot more entertaining show than we have today. Who do you see in today's heavily-wrestling-oriented WWE that has shared the same degree of success that those other 3 names did?

Today, the IWC got their wish and now have more actual wrestling than ever before ... and yet I have never seen the amount of people disgusted with today's product that I see today. Very telling.

 

[The Catacomb]

Take the number of hits that your average wrestling site gets in a day, ie wrestlezone.com. Compare this with the number of households that watch WWE, TNA, ROH, programming on a weekly basis. Some times it may be more than 10% sometimes less. What my point is the amount of views that actively view and participate in wrestling discussion boards is a very small percentage of the actual audience.

Even if you take the number of hits that all the various wrestling forums average out, you still have no way gauge all who watch wrestling. The nielson ratings are out-dated and tainted anyway. I know at least 25 people who watch wrestling that don't have a nielson box in their home and each of those friends in turn have several friends who watch that are never counted, plus 12 of those 25 go on wrestling sites and forums. So if you play out the laws of averages on that, the number is 49%.

That along with TIVO and the ability to download shows off the internet and bars that buy PPV's for customers and other such wacky things, you can't get a true number. I also think the number is greater than 10%. More like 25%. But, who knows.

I think WWE does look at the sights, but, I don't think Vince personally does.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I always saw the 'IWC' as such a pointless term, due to the amount of difference in the opinions of fans who use the itnernet. Just looking at the debates on these forums, you can see it's true. Anyway, I don't think we have much power at all. The WWE doesn't really have to worry about us...millions of fans watch the WWE every week, yet there aren't millions of people who use internet forums to discuss to show. I don't know the exact figures, but in comparison to the amount of people watching the show, I'd say we're definately the minority. To say we're 'powerful' is over-exaggerating something which I don't really think is an issue.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Sidious, from a IWC member standpoint I couldn't agree with you more. You definetely hit the nail on whats wrong with the wrestling industry (FYI, I don't think the WWE does smart booking or intriguing storylines, I was just trying to point out the differences between the IWC and the casual fan. My apologies for my shitty grammar). I personally don't watch alot of wrestling anymore, I love wrestling but I don't love what it has become (Frankly, I think its shit).
With my original post I was just trying to point out that the IWC has no power because at the end-of-the-day, we just don't matter because no matter how bad the product gets, the majority of us will still watch it (not myself personally, but most of us). With the casual fan, they may enjoy watching an "Intriguing Storyline" but the Austins and Rocks of the world are what make them tune in every week, something like Mae Young going out with Mark Henry may be entertaining, but its not enough to bring the casual fan back each week.

 

[Decarow]

maybe CM Punk won the title because he is over with the audience? He had the briefcase and was doing nothing with it, and Raw was without a champion. The title reign ended up being HORRIBLE, as well as Jeff Hardy's.

And no, i do not think that the IWC is in complete control of the WWE. Are they reading the forums? I think so. Is it a big impact on them? Not really.

People on here are ALWAYS trashing Cena. If WWE cared, they would have done something about him. ECW isn't extreme anymore, despite the fact that the IWC pisses all over the new ECW.

I'm sorry, but I do not think the IWC is that influencial with WWE.