Do steroids make the game of baseball interesting?

[BooCocky]

I know that's not really a topic to start a debate between two people. But I'd love more people to chime in on it when the two debaters are finished. This is where Blue Cardinal takes on...

This is the topic and it came to me while read Jose Canseco's juiced. It gave me a new view on the topic and he continues to say they are here to stay. He's a believer in home runs rule the game and people go to games to see the home run.

Without home runs people won't see the games live because who the fuck wants to see singles?. So this is a simple question, do steroids make the game of baseball more interesting?

Go ahead have fun. Keep it clean and no hitting below the belt...

 

[Eck]

This is where Blue Cardinal takes on..

He's taking on me. But yes it makes baseball more intresting. Who wants to see baseball when they barely hit at all. You watch them hit and if the ball ain't going anywhere it isn't intresting

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

He's taking on me. But yes it makes baseball more intresting. Who wants to see baseball when they barely hit at all. You watch them hit and if the ball ain't going anywhere it isn't intresting

Good luck. Any other takers are welcome when we're done.

My opponent has taken the side of steriods making the game more interesting, so I will be proving that they don't.

Baseball is better off without steriods, plan and simple. Everyone remembers the big homerun chase in the summer of 98 and I will agree that it was good for baseball in that it got people interested in the wonderful game again. But baseball was doing just fine before the strike in 94 that drove so many fans away. Baseball has always been a very historical sport that celebrates it's history and that history is viewed as the Golden Age, that Golden Age was steriod free. It really proves that steroids aren't needed to make baseball a better game when a steroid free era is commomly viewed as the greatest.

Steroids also cause more people to turn away from the game like when in 2005 Congress got involed to clean up the game. It showed the heroes of the Steroid Era in such a bad light that no one involed has gotten into the Hall of Fame to date. For a sport that is rich in history for the Hall of Fame not to accept these people is a death sentence for their legacy.

In closing steroids do not make baseball more interesting nor do they make the game better because in 100 years if none of these players are in Cooperstown who's going to remember them? As for today who is going to want to get an autograph or buy a jersey from a guy that took drugs to get where he's at? Steroids are bad for baseball. Period.

 

[Eck]

Firstly is they're any conclusive evidence that the people who where hitting homeruns during the Steriod Era all where taking steriods. I'll admitt that alot where but alot were not.And even if they where does that mean if they where taking them when the won the World Series that it shouldnt count. They're is also no proof that even before the Steriod Era that some of the people before that werent taking them at all. If they were would they just start questioning former baseball stars if they were all juiced up.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Firstly is they're any conclusive evidence that the people who where hitting homeruns during the Steriod Era all where taking steriods.

Yes, the Mitchell Report.

I'll admitt that alot where but alot were not.

No, the Mitchell Report consisted of alot of no name players and pitchers, plus all the big homerun hitters of that era save for Griffey and a few others. A-Rod, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Cansaco, Clemens, Pettite, Palmerio, and a few more big names of the Steroid Era that I can't think of have all been proven, admitted, or everyone id pretty damn sure to have taken the juice.

And even if they where does that mean if they where taking them when the won the World Series that it shouldnt count.

No, it all still counts, with a *

They're is also no proof that even before the Steriod Era that some of the people before that werent taking them at all.

Well besides the fact that they weren't invented yet....

If they were would they just start questioning former baseball stars if they were all juiced up.

Yes probably.

 

[Eck]

Ok fair enough of them not being invented. But back to my first arguement, steriods make it more intresting for a few reasons.

First reason, would anyone be getting as many homeruns with out it. Would you stay for a game where everyone hit singles.? No you would'nt everyone would just leave.

Second reason, if the coach/trainer are making the player take it should the player recieve disiplanary action or the coaches. It should be who ever is making him take it. Lets say you have to fire a person at work becuse your boss doesnt like him. It turns out he did'nt like him because he seemed like he would steal his job and the people running the company found out and your boss lied and said it was your fault who should be in trouble? Him thats who. Some of the coaches/trainers are giving them to the player with out him knowing should the player be in trouble for that? No

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Ok fair enough of them not being invented. But back to my first arguement, steriods make it more intresting for a few reasons.

No they don't. Not if everyone knows they're on them. People praise pure players. Griffey is held in the highest regard, Pujols aswell, and A-Rod, even though alot of people didn't like him because of the money the respected him for being pure(up until his steroid admission).

First reason, would anyone be getting as many homeruns with out it. Would you stay for a game where everyone hit singles.? No you would'nt everyone would just leave.

Yes they would, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey Jr., Albert Pujols, just a few names there, nothing special. As for a singles game yes I would, and people have before. The baseball survived the deadball era didn't it? People want to see dominence, whether that's by the hitters or the pitchers people want to see it. A perfect game is held in a much higher regard than a 4 homerun game or the cycle, it's not just about the longball, even though chicks dig it.

Second reason, if the coach/trainer are making the player take it should the player recieve disiplanary action or the coaches. It should be who ever is making him take it. Lets say you have to fire a person at work becuse your boss doesnt like him. It turns out he did'nt like him because he seemed like he would steal his job and the people running the company found out and your boss lied and said it was your fault who should be in trouble? Him thats who. Some of the coaches/trainers are giving them to the player with out him knowing should the player be in trouble for that? No

First off, I don't know of any player that doesn't know what their trainers is putting in their bodies, none. Secondly if a player is dumb enough to not know what they're taking or being injected with they deserve any punishment that comes their way for being a dumbass. Either way it doesn't pertain to whether or not roids make baseball a better, more interesting game. Like I said before a guy on the juice may be exciting to watch hit homeruns and all, but the second people know he was cheating they turn their backs on them and want no part of that player. People want greatness, not cheaters.

 

[Eck]

Yea u kno what u have actully prooved to me im actuly thinking you right. I hate to admit it but im wrong you where right. I like your arguement

 

[gd]

Probably does make it more interesting. Look at the ratings nowadays, pretty shit, I'd say. Personally, my interest has been waning steadily. However, I fondly watching the chase of 98 with my dad. Good times.

At this point, people just need to accept things happened and not try to forget them or sweep them under the rug. The fact of a matter is, all of this stuff happened, a bunch of people were using and it's impossible to know exactly who was using what and how much it affected things. Sure, it taints things a little, but we can't just completely foget the Steroid Era. It was a period of baseball just like any other time, we may as well emprace it.

 

[BooCocky]

Yes, the Mitchell Report.



No, the Mitchell Report consisted of alot of no name players and pitchers, plus all the big homerun hitters of that era save for Griffey and a few others. A-Rod, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Cansaco, Clemens, Pettite, Palmerio, and a few more big names of the Steroid Era that I can't think of have all been proven, admitted, or everyone id pretty damn sure to have taken the juice.



No, it all still counts, with a *




Well besides the fact that they weren't invented yet....



Yes probably.

This is what I want to attack on top over several other things. I'm not saying I'm the most knowledgeable person when it comes to steroids, because I'm not. But you can take steroids in a cycle. And I don't even know much about the report. But those 89 MLB players were unfortunate. I can't recall all the names but I'm pretty sure people like Brian Giles and Brady Anderson weren't included on the list. And if you don't believe they were on steroids, you're on something. There numbers sky rocketed from mediocre numbers to all star numbers in like one year. And Giles pretty much did the same thing.

And I remember in another post where you said baseball was doing just fine. Which is incorrect. Going into 1998 baseball was a dying interest. It took three roided up freaks to drive interest back into the game we once loved. The home run chase of 1998 was probably the biggest thing to hit the sport in many years. Without McGwire and the fun loving Sosa and Griffey baseball wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Baseball could have been extinct in 2010 if it wasn't for that glorious summer of 1998. You can say what you want about steroids and destroying the game, which is fine by me, but you can not disregard the effect that year had on the game.

Now baseball is a game of the long ball. When I go to a game I want to see a homerun. Every one is the stadium cheers for a homerun, the same thing can not be said for something like a double. Home runs are great. When I go to Pirate games I sit in right field hoping to see a power hitter, hit it into the river.

Steroids are apart of baseball and they are here to stay. It's all about a competitive edge, even if it means serving a fifty game suspension. Besides, they test in cycles so it isn't like they couldn't beat it. So, like I said I think steroids are an excellent thing. They drive interest into the game. Which should happen more often, now that the major leagues seem to be turning into a pitchers league. I don't know about you, but I'm not a huge of pitching duels. Unless it involves my Bucs. And everyone knows we can't pitch, so i go to see the dingers, the longball and every other shit name they have for the homerun.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

This is what I want to attack on top over several other things. I'm not saying I'm the most knowledgeable person when it comes to steroids, because I'm not. But you can take steroids in a cycle. And I don't even know much about the report. But those 89 MLB players were unfortunate. I can't recall all the names but I'm pretty sure people like Brian Giles and Brady Anderson weren't included on the list. And if you don't believe they were on steroids, you're on something. There numbers sky rocketed from mediocre numbers to all star numbers in like one year. And Giles pretty much did the same thing.

I'm sure there were names not on the list that used the juice, I'm not denying that, also isn't the report still secret? I thought all the names that came out were leaked or something like that.

And I remember in another post where you said baseball was doing just fine. Which is incorrect. Going into 1998 baseball was a dying interest. It took three roided up freaks to drive interest back into the game we once loved. The home run chase of 1998 was probably the biggest thing to hit the sport in many years. Without McGwire and the fun loving Sosa and Griffey baseball wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Baseball could have been extinct in 2010 if it wasn't for that glorious summer of 1998. You can say what you want about steroids and destroying the game, which is fine by me, but you can not disregard the effect that year had on the game.

I said baseball was doing fine until the strike happened in 94. Now I know the numbers were not amazing, but pre strike baseball wasn't in any real danger of shuting down. The strike drove people away from the game, I know it made me not watch for a few years. I too started to get interested again in 98, actually the trade for Big Mac in 97 is what got me watching again. Griffey, well you and I have been over our feelings on him so no need to start that again.

Now on to that season, the Summer of 98, it was a great year wasn't it? Stone Cold and the Rock, Cubs and the Cardinals in a homerun race for the record. It was great. The point I'm trying to make is people either didn't know, or didn't care they where juiced up that year, but when it came out that they were everyone turned their back on them and it hurt baseball. People realized/got outed, cheering for cheaters and felt embarassed. No one wants to be associated with cheaters.

Now baseball is a game of the long ball. When I go to a game I want to see a homerun. Every one is the stadium cheers for a homerun, the same thing can not be said for something like a double. Home runs are great. When I go to Pirate games I sit in right field hoping to see a power hitter, hit it into the river.

I enjoy homeruns as much as the next guy, you don't need roids to do that though. I said early look at the Babe and Hammerin' Hank, as for today we have Albert. There are guys that crush the ball that don't need juice to do it. Maybe roids would produce a few more dingers a year but is it really necessary? I don't think it is. People want to see great players doing great things, but without the aid of drugs.

Steroids are apart of baseball and they are here to stay. It's all about a competitive edge, even if it means serving a fifty game suspension. Besides, they test in cycles so it isn't like they couldn't beat it. So, like I said I think steroids are an excellent thing. They drive interest into the game. Which should happen more often, now that the major leagues seem to be turning into a pitchers league. I don't know about you, but I'm not a huge of pitching duels. Unless it involves my Bucs. And everyone knows we can't pitch, so i go to see the dingers, the longball and every other shit name they have for the homerun.

I agree they are apart of baseball, I don't have to love it but I accept it. I'd still rather see a guy that's clean do something great than see a guy that's jacked on drugs and high off his ass do it.

 

[The Crock]

Steroids don't make the game interesting, they just make it more powerful. Sure people love the long ball but at the end of the day... that's not why I, and many other fans, tune in to baseball games. There are many other interesting aspects of baseball, and they should be focused on... not the steroid part of the game.

Personally I love when a player can hit singles, doubles, triples, and really just knock in runs... it doesn't matter if he hits home runs. For example, Joe Mauer hits the ball all over the place and it entertains me. I'd much rather see a smart batter pull the ball opposite field or try to just get some contact rather than just swinging for the fences... which is what steroids are all about. Without steroids, 3 of the guys in the 600 Club wouldn't be there, and it would be a much more amazing feat. It would make me want to watch even more.

In my opinion, steroids actually make the game less interesting. Steroids make the game less prestigious and they tarnish the legacy of the game. To me it's not entertaining to see a bunch of players, who are known "juicers", just go out there and smack the ball out of the park. That just makes the game monotonous. I wish that steroids never would have been brought into the game, because there would be more people passionate about the beautiful game of baseball.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Remember when homeruns used to be really special? I prolly don't since I didn't start watching baseball heavily until I moved to Arizona in 2003. lol

I don't know much about steroids outside of being a pro wrestling fan, I admit. But if it deemed "cheating" in baseball, it seems a little hypocritical considering stealing bases or having secret signals between players and managers is encouraged.

As far as making it more interesting.. Prolly not. I can really do without sport writers and fans adding a * by certain players' accomplishments or records. Just comes across as being too bitchy to me.

 

[BooCocky]

I'm sure there were names not on the list that used the juice, I'm not denying that, also isn't the report still secret? I thought all the names that came out were leaked or something like that.

They were supposedly leaked, but I have my doubts. I believe baseball did it to try and save the game. You keep it a secret and nothing comes from this. Steroids in my opinion didn't cause this. Stupidity in upper management did.

I said baseball was doing fine until the strike happened in 94. Now I know the numbers were not amazing, but pre strike baseball wasn't in any real danger of shuting down. The strike drove people away from the game, I know it made me not watch for a few years. I too started to get interested again in 98, actually the trade for Big Mac in 97 is what got me watching again. Griffey, well you and I have been over our feelings on him so no need to start that again.

Yeah pre strike. Then the strike hit. And we all know the strike didn't come from steroids. It happened because people wanted a salary cap because of a bad financial time. And baseball wasn't progressing until McGwire and Bunch decided to hit a few jacks. The summer of 1998 was a key part in driving interest back into the game.

Now on to that season, the Summer of 98, it was a great year wasn't it? Stone Cold and the Rock, Cubs and the Cardinals in a homerun race for the record. It was great. The point I'm trying to make is people either didn't know, or didn't care they where juiced up that year, but when it came out that they were everyone turned their back on them and it hurt baseball. People realized/got outed, cheering for cheaters and felt embarassed. No one wants to be associated with cheaters.

That could be the case but people don't miraculously grow a huge amount of muscles over night. Mac was always big but he wasn't a mammoth. McGwire didn't need roids. Roids were brought into the picture after his rookie season. The same season he hit 49 homeruns. You were probably young. But I'm pretty sure the older fans knew something was up when they all decided to go on a homer tear, during the same year.

I enjoy homeruns as much as the next guy, you don't need roids to do that though. I said early look at the Babe and Hammerin' Hank, as for today we have Albert. There are guys that crush the ball that don't need juice to do it. Maybe roids would produce a few more dingers a year but is it really necessary? I don't think it is. People want to see great players doing great things, but without the aid of drugs.

Yeah, but natural power hitters are few and far between. One can't change the game but a few good ones can. Ala Mcgwire Griffey and Sosa.

I agree they are apart of baseball, I don't have to love it but I accept it. I'd still rather see a guy that's clean do something great than see a guy that's jacked on drugs and high off his ass do it.

Who wouldnt but people you think are clean get caught. People like Manny and A-Rod. I thought they were natural power hitters but they got caught. A pure player is few and far between. Pujols is supposedly clean. I guarantee you Fielder isn't clean. When Ramirez got caught his numbers came down. Becoming a vegetarian my ass. He was scared to get busted.

So I stand by the thing that steroids are good for the game. They drive interest to ever stadium in the world. Well most baseball cities in America. When A-Rod was on the chase for 600, how many people were going to games? A bunch. Why? Because they wanted to see his roided ass get to 600. People love the big sticks and most big hitters aren't natural power hitter.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

They were supposedly leaked, but I have my doubts. I believe baseball did it to try and save the game. You keep it a secret and nothing comes from this. Steroids in my opinion didn't cause this. Stupidity in upper management did.

I completly agree with you on this.

Yeah pre strike. Then the strike hit. And we all know the strike didn't come from steroids. It happened because people wanted a salary cap because of a bad financial time. And baseball wasn't progressing until McGwire and Bunch decided to hit a few jacks. The summer of 1998 was a key part in driving interest back into the game.

I agree the Summer of 98 got the game back to what it was pre strike, the point I was trying to make was baseball was doing fine until that strike hit and drove the fans away, the homerun chase brought them back. Now the steroid admissions are putting a dark shadow over thew game, I don't necessarily agree with it but it's happening. People are turning away because the players they cheered for roided up and cheated their way to the top. I don't have a huge problem with the steroid era, I wish it would have been clean, but it happened and I accept it. I wish the Hall would just accept it for what it was too instead of blackballing them, but it's their choice.

That could be the case but people don't miraculously grow a huge amount of muscles over night. Mac was always big but he wasn't a mammoth. McGwire didn't need roids. Roids were brought into the picture after his rookie season. The same season he hit 49 homeruns. You were probably young. But I'm pretty sure the older fans knew something was up when they all decided to go on a homer tear, during the same year.

It's funny that he was a Gold Glover that year and then later in his career he became a liability at 1st. But you see what happened, he hit 49 his rookie season, he might have been on juice then too but I'm not positive. The guy would have been a first ballot guy if not for the roids.

Yeah, but natural power hitters are few and far between. One can't change the game but a few good ones can. Ala Mcgwire Griffey and Sosa.

Well we have Pujols, Han-Ram, Howard, and Cabrera off the top of my head right now. Will they go on a huge tear? Maybe, but 98 was really a perfect storm and shouldn't be what we compare all homerun seasons to, it really had everything fall into place and ended up magical.

Who wouldnt but people you think are clean get caught. People like Manny and A-Rod. I thought they were natural power hitters but they got caught. A pure player is few and far between. Pujols is supposedly clean. I guarantee you Fielder isn't clean. When Ramirez got caught his numbers came down. Becoming a vegetarian my ass. He was scared to get busted.

I'm with you, I thought they were clean too, but it doesn't change the fact that we still want them or any of our favorite players to do it the right way and be clean. If you knew a guy was roiding up andf jacking bombs would you still cheer for him? I don't know if I could, and I'm basing my arguement on the assumption that most people wouldn't cheer for someone that was juiced.

So I stand by the thing that steroids are good for the game. They drive interest to ever stadium in the world. Well most baseball cities in America. When A-Rod was on the chase for 600, how many people were going to games? A bunch. Why? Because they wanted to see his roided ass get to 600. People love the big sticks and most big hitters aren't natural power hitter.

People love excitement and fun games, not steroided players. A player on roids might give those people what they want, but if the people find out their guy cheated to do it I'm sure they would turn away.

 

[Big Sexy]

At certain times maybe, but for the most part no. Obviously everyone enjoyed the 1998 home run race and enjoyed watching Bonds hit 73 homers in 2001 but now all we hear about is steroids. I'm sick of all the coverage everyone gets when a positive test they had leaks out. I'm sick of having every single power hitter of the modern era be questioned/accused of taking steroids. Things like that take away from the excitement because every major feat is questioned.

Just talking about the games themselves, although we're not getting as many huge home run seasons by individual players, there are still plenty of home runs being hit on the whole in MLB. There hasn't been a major drop in home runs from the recent seasons compared to the major steroid years.

Guys like Pujols, Ryan Howard, and Prince Fielder are still hitting plenty of home runs and having great years in the high 40's and sometimes even 50's in terms of home run totals. The game as a whole does not change much from steroids, it's more of individual performances that change. Although those performances are sometimes exciting, the baggage that comes along with it has taken away some enjoyment from the game of baseball. Because of that I say steroids do not make baseball more exciting.