Disciplining your children

[Freddy4190]

How do you/would you do this? I know there's that whole "Oh, we shouldn't spank our kids because it might scar them further in life" bullshit. But no. I firmly believe in a good ass whoopin'. Only when necessary though. If the kid breaks a crayon or doesn't finish his cereal, i'm not gonna break out a belt or nothing. I had my ass whooped as a kid and it helped me. I don't expect things to be handed to me and I know respect for adults. All that jazz. I'm not talking about locking horns with your kid or punching him/her in the face or nothing. Smacking them on the ass or whatever won't scar their future. I never believed in the time out. Or grounding them even. Most kids have TVs, cell phones, video games, and all kinds of shit in their room. When I was grounded, IF I was grounded. My mom took everything out of my room. She even hid the keyboard. So what about you? Were you given a ol' school ass whooping as a child, or whatever else? How would you handle a child discipline wise?

 

[Ferbian]

Now I'm no parent yet, but I believe I've been raised fairly well, having the line drawn fairly quickly when I was doing stuff I most definatly should NOT have done.

I choose not to believe in spanking or hitting your kid, sure it might beat some damn respect into the kid, but to me it's done in the wrong way.
If you ask me, you should be able to sit down, tell the kid not to do the things he/she just did that was obviously a wrong move, explain to the kid why he/she shouldn't be doing these things, and try to make them see things from your point of view, but ofcourse there's times where you cannot take the time to get the kid to sit down and talk with him, where you have to react quickly and set the kid in his/her place instantly and impactfully, but verbally, not physically.

Edit: Damn I've had to rewrite words alot here, mainly having said "he" or "him" throughout the most places that now says "the kid" or "he/she" I'm probably living in the world where boys instantly means brat..

 

[Big Sexy]

All these people who think that there is ONE way to discipline all children are fooling themselves. Every kid responds differently to different kinds of discipline. Some kids respond to being spanked, some to being grounded, some to having certain items or privileges taken away. As a parent you have to figure out what is best for YOUR kid. There isn't one universal way to discipline every kid that works. When you find something that works, use it.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Beating your kids is the wrong way to go about things, If my memory serves me correctly, the main reason people used to beat their kids was to beat the "evil" or the "devil" out of them, and I'm sure the very same thing still goes on today.

Beating your kids serves no purpose, unless you want them to fear you, and if raising your child with fear is how you want to go about it, than so be it. Its the wrong way to go about things, its 2010 people, there are much better ways to go about disciplining your children. If anything beating your kids, especially at a young age is only going to do harm to their development.

let the crazy southern baptists beat the devil out of their children, their stuck in the past anyway, why not try being a parent, instead of beating your kid with a belt.

It seems to me most people who don't have a problem beating their kids also don't have a problem beating their spouse's either, there's a reason schools can't beat your kids anymore, catch up with the times and start parenting your child.

 

[Ferbian]

Every kid responds differently to different kinds of discipline.

You may be right about that Big Sexy, but to me there's still things that would probably be a little wrong, atleast the part where your actually spanking your kid, perhaps a personal opinion about the fact that hitting your kid should be highly frowned upon

There isn't one universal way to discipline every kid that works. When you find something that works, use it.

Again, you may be right about that, but somehow I think it's perhaps gonna take too much time finding out how the kid reacts to the way of disciplining.
Again taking spanking as an example, first time your kid does something wrong, you spank him/her, in hope that he/she learned his/her lesson, but first of all, its inevitable that the kid stops doing things you would have to discplinate him about, hence you wouldn't instantly know if the spanking had an impact, therefore you would have to either spank him/her again, or numerous times to watch the progress of impact, or you would switch to another method, which you again would have to watch progress over several disciplination "sessions" and there by wasting your time when you could adjust him/her to one specific thing to expect, which he/she (if progressed properly) will eventually grow to hate, want to avoid, and ultimately respect it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

You should never be allowed to hit your child and a good parent wouldn't need to. You think disclipline is about fear and violence? Causing pain? Yeah, I wouldn't get on with any parent who thinks that. Discipline is about being firm, yet calm, it's about teaching a child right from wrong. Kids can make you want to scream and rip your hair out at times, but all hitting them does is cause more commotion by having them screaming, and I'd feel absolutely terrible after doing it. You want to punish a child? Take away their sweets or favourite toy. There's enough violence in the world without you projecting it onto your kids from a young age.

 

[Loveless]

You should never be allowed to hit your child and a good parent wouldn't need to.

Nailed it. Violence only leads to more violence. Smacking your kids will only teach them that that's the way to get people to do what they want. Really, a good parent only needs to be smarter than their kids and will learn how to manipulate them into behaving.

You want to punish a child? Take away their sweets or favourite toy.

Flawless

 

[Tastycles]

Teaching children that violence is the solution to problems probably isn't the best social message. I don't care if people adminster a slap on the arse here and there, because it does work, and it isn't detrimental, but it is really unecessary. You can discipline a child by calmly talking to them and making them sit somewhere boring for ten minutes. They will definitely respond to that, because children react to stimulus a lot more readily than we do, it's why cartoons happen at a million miles an hour, and programmes for tiny kids have all sorts of weird shit going on. I'm not planning on having children, but if I did, I don't think I'd ever smack them. I was smacked once in a blue moon though, and it didn't do me any harm.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Nailed it. Violence only leads to more violence. Smacking your kids will only teach them that that's the way to get people to do what they want.

I was spanked as a child, mainly because i couldn't be locked in my room because i broke the bedroom door, and didn't have a huge variety of toys i cared about anyway, so physical punishment was how my parents disciplined me.

I'm now 24 and haven't been involved in an actual fight in nearly 9 years, and believe me there's been plenty of opportunities, so i'm afraid that your 'violence breeds violence' theory is not as absolute as you think.

I am frequently praised for my courtesy and manners by people who are older than me, and have a better relationship with my family than the majority of my friends, and that's after about 10 years of being smacked on the ass whenever i stepped out of line.

In the UK, you're no longer allowed to hit your children, and now we're suffering probably the worst generation of youngsters our country has ever seen. Kids are getting worse, and worse, and worse. We've now got 12 year olds calling each other *****, stabbing each other left and right, and most of them can't wait to take drugs. We don't give birth to children anymore in the UK, we spawn anarchistic demons instead.

Sitting down and talking to them all nice and friendly doesn't work with fuckin' adult criminals, so why do you think it's going to work with children who have no idea of how to behave?

3 years ago during my Uni degree, we conducted a survey with about 100 people about parents being allowed to punish their children. Not one of them said that they thought spanking was a bad idea, and most of them were pissed off that the government tells them what they can and cannot do to raise their children.

Do you want to know what the most common response was to the question; 'do you agree with spanking as a form of discipline?' was?

"It never did me any harm."

My best mate has a 4 yr old daughter, and he takes her toys away, locks her in her room, takes away her TV and Wii repeatedly, and she's still a nightmare when there's lots of people around. She believes that everyone is there to see her, so she thinks she can get away with anything. Even when everyone in the room is telling her off at once, she still plays up constantly. Don't get me wrong, she apologises for being naughty, but it's obvious she's just saying it so that the adults will stop shouting at her, because as soon as they forgive her, she goes and does it again. A full on rewards and punishment system has been inforced in that household in order to get her to behave, and she still doesn't, so what do you suggest my friends do?

Of the 8 of you who've posted so far, how many of you actually have children? And on top of that, how many of you were disciplined by your parents hurting you physically? I ask because if not one of you has children or have experienced being disciplined in that manner, then you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I was spanked as a child, mainly because i couldn't be locked in my room because i broke the bedroom door, and didn't have a huge variety of toys i cared about anyway, so physical punishment was how my parents disciplined me.

I'm now 24 and haven't been involved in an actual fight in nearly 9 years, and believe me there's been plenty of opportunities, so i'm afraid that your 'violence breeds violence' theory is not as absolute as you think.

I am frequently praised for my courtesy and manners by people who are older than me, and have a better relationship with my family than the majority of my friends, and that's after about 10 years of being smacked on the ass whenever i stepped out of line.

In the UK, you're no longer allowed to hit your children, and now we're suffering probably the worst generation of youngsters our country has ever seen. Kids are getting worse, and worse, and worse. We've now got 12 year olds calling each other *****, stabbing each other left and right, and most of them can't wait to take drugs. We don't give birth to children anymore in the UK, we spawn anarchistic demons instead.

Sitting down and talking to them all nice and friendly doesn't work with fuckin' adult criminals, so why do you think it's going to work with children who have no idea of how to behave?

3 years ago during my Uni degree, we conducted a survey with about 100 people about parents being allowed to punish their children. Not one of them said that they thought spanking was a bad idea, and most of them were pissed off that the government tells them what they can and cannot do to raise their children.

Do you want to know what the most common response was to the question; 'do you agree with spanking as a form of discipline?' was?

"It never did me any harm."

My best mate has a 4 yr old daughter, and he takes her toys away, locks her in her room, takes away her TV and Wii repeatedly, and she's still a nightmare when there's lots of people around. She believes that everyone is there to see her, so she thinks she can get away with anything. Even when everyone in the room is telling her off at once, she still plays up constantly. Don't get me wrong, she apologises for being naughty, but it's obvious she's just saying it so that the adults will stop shouting at her, because as soon as they forgive her, she goes and does it again. A full on rewards and punishment system has been inforced in that household in order to get her to behave, and she still doesn't, so what do you suggest my friends do?

Of the 8 of you who've posted so far, how many of you actually have children? And on top of that, how many of you were disciplined by your parents hurting you physically? I ask because if not one of you has children or have experienced being disciplined in that manner, then you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't have children, and don't plan on it. I am the oldest of Five kids, and have been babysitting them for over fifteen years. I was also very rarely spanked as a child, and the belt and paddle where never brought out on me. I've also been an assistant tennis instructor for over five year, working with kids, ages 5-16.

I'm pretty sure that I can draw a fair assessment on how physical violence at a young age can greatly effect the future development of that said child.

As for our best friend, it sounds to me like she is spoiled rotten, and if that's the case maybe he has to give her a swift spank on the ass, but her acting the way she does is clearly a sign that she was not disciplined much as a young child. Sounds like she has always gotten what she want's, so now she throws fits when she can't get her way. A Wii, T.V, a rewards system, she she sounds as if she has been spoiled since birth, and if you spoil them young, give them what they want all the time and don't discipline your child than of course your going to run into these problems.

Are you really comparing developed Adult minds to an undeveloped child's mind, I'm not even going to go there, this is quite obvious, and I'm sure you know better.

If your violent with your child at a young age, its only going to breed more fear and violence in them. This does not mean no discipline, and let them run a muck and do as they please. It means that... wait for it...... ..

YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PARENT YOUR CHILDREN.

Imagine that, coming up with ways to parent your child, instead of coming up with new things to beat them with.

 

[HBK-aholic]

In the UK, you're no longer allowed to hit your children, and now we're suffering probably the worst generation of youngsters our country has ever seen. Kids are getting worse, and worse, and worse. We've now got 12 year olds calling each other *****, stabbing each other left and right, and most of them can't wait to take drugs. We don't give birth to children anymore in the UK, we spawn anarchistic demons instead.

Are you blaming the increase in violence on the decrease of violence in the home? How does this make sense again? First, very few crimes have actually increased, the reporting of them has. The police have got better at finding drugs, people have got better at reporting violent crimes. We find more children with knives because we perform more stop and searches on youngsters than in the past.

Secondly, where have you got this from? Stop believing the media in that we live in 'Broken Britain', the amount of children who are well behaved and don't gain a criminl record FAR outweigh the ones who do. 'Most' children go on to have normal non-criminal lives.

Sitting down and talking to them all nice and friendly doesn't work with fuckin' adult criminals, so why do you think it's going to work with children who have no idea of how to behave?

And you think BEATING them does? I will never understand how people argue a decrease of violence in the homes makes MORE violence in the street. 'Nice and friendly' doesn't do it. Firm does. Give them nothing to do, take away their favourite things, sit them somewhere boring, they'll learn. In 5 years I've never hit my little girl and she's never been in trouble at school and is top of her class.

3 years ago during my Uni degree, we conducted a survey with about 100 people about parents being allowed to punish their children. Not one of them said that they thought spanking was a bad idea, and most of them were pissed off that the government tells them what they can and cannot do to raise their children.

In Nazi Germany if you asked a majority of the people there they'd say they didn't think Hitler's plan was a bad idea. Just because it's what many people think doesn't make it right.

Also, the law on this, in the UK, is that you can physically punish your child as long as it doesn't leave a lasting mark or bruise - how are people arguing this is a bad thing? I know, let's allow you to give your child a black eye, scars and a bad back from the beatings.

Do you want to know what the most common response was to the question; 'do you agree with spanking as a form of discipline?' was?

"It never did me any harm."

It may have done them harm, who knows? Unless we look at their lives, and there's an indepth study into the effects, who knows if it has affected their lives?

My best mate has a 4 yr old daughter, and he takes her toys away, locks her in her room, takes away her TV and Wii repeatedly, and she's still a nightmare when there's lots of people around. She believes that everyone is there to see her, so she thinks she can get away with anything. Even when everyone in the room is telling her off at once, she still plays up constantly. Don't get me wrong, she apologises for being naughty, but it's obvious she's just saying it so that the adults will stop shouting at her, because as soon as they forgive her, she goes and does it again. A full on rewards and punishment system has been inforced in that household in order to get her to behave, and she still doesn't, so what do you suggest my friends do?

She's 4 and she has a Wii and she thinks everyone's there to see her? She sounds like a spoilt brat, if I'm honest. The fact everyone in the room tells her off at once is bad parenting. I mean, it's confusing, and they're showing her that the tantrums actually GIVE her attention. One adult needs to take her aside, and be firm. Explain the situation formly, yet calmly, tell her she has to stay in her room/on a chair for 5 minutes silently, and she can rejoin the room/party when she's calmed down. They should try and involve her in conversations, or allow her to listen and talk also, to give her attention and a feeling of worth in a subtle, calm way. If she continues with the screaming, the time alone, bored, continues. Soon she'll associate tantrums and screaming with that boredom, and change her behaviour.

Of the 8 of you who've posted so far, how many of you actually have children? And on top of that, how many of you were disciplined by your parents hurting you physically? I ask because if not one of you has children or have experienced being disciplined in that manner, then you don't know what you're talking about.

I have a child, I've never hit her, and she's never been in any trouble at school. When she does have a temper tantrum as all young children do, I do everything I've said in this thread, don't use physical punishment, and the behaviour stops.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I don't have children, and don't plan on it. I am the oldest of Five kids, and have been babysitting them for over fifteen years.

And? What's your point?

I was also very rarely spanked as a child, and the belt and paddle where never brought out on me.

But you were spanked, and unless you're going to admit to being unruly, discourteous and violent, then you're only proving my argument.

I've also been an assistant tennis instructor for over five year, working with kids, ages 5-16.

So therefore you're only means of discipline are giving 'time outs' and verbal warnings, whereas a parent should be able to raise their child however they see fit.

I'm pretty sure that I can draw a fair assessment on how physical violence at a young age can greatly effect the future development of that said child.

Because you teach tennis and babysit? I hope you've got something more substantial than that to back up your claim.

As for our best friend, it sounds to me like she is spoiled rotten, and if that's the case maybe he has to give her a swift spank on the ass, but her acting the way she does is clearly a sign that she was not disciplined much as a young child.

First of all, she still is a young child, secondly her father was in prison for the first 3 years of her life, so yes she's spoiled to some degree, because she's been without a father for 75% of her life, but when he lays down the law, that's it, discussion over, and while she's more obidient with him, she's still difficult to handle.

Sounds like she has always gotten what she want's, so now she throws fits when she can't get her way. A Wii, T.V, a rewards system, she she sounds as if she has been spoiled since birth, and if you spoil them young, give them what they want all the time and don't discipline your child than of course your going to run into these problems.

Did you not have a TV as a kid? In this day and age it's a basic thing that just about every child has regardless of attitude or behaviour.

When i said a reward system, i mean a chart where she gets a smily face added every time she behaves throughout the entire day. If she's naughty once, she gets no smily faces. In order to receive any treats or pocket money, she has to get 50 smiley faces. So far, in 3 weeks, she's gotten 5.

Really dude, you should try asking more questions before responding, instead of talking like A) you know me, and B) you know my friends, because it only makes you look stupid overall.

Are you really comparing developed Adult minds to an undeveloped child's mind, I'm not even going to go there, this is quite obvious, and I'm sure you know better.

I'm not comparing them at all. Adults have developed minds right? Yet a fair percentage of them still beat the hell out of each other on a regular basis, discriminate against other social groups purely because other people they know discriminate against those same social groups, have no regard for other people's property etc etc, and these aren't even the people who end up in prison, this is your typical person within modern day society.

I'm not even talking about murderers, kiddie fiddler's, masochists, drug dealers or any of the real scum of the earth. It has been proven that rehabilitation and sitting people down and talking to them, does nothing to prevent from re-offending 90% of the time.

So what i'm saying is, if a large percentage of adults don't behave the way they want their children to, EVEN when they've been incarcerated for their behaviour, why would you expect the kids to behave using that same methodology?

If your violent with your child at a young age, its only going to breed more fear and violence in them. This does not mean no discipline, and let them run a muck and do as they please. It means that... wait for it...... ..

YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PARENT YOUR CHILDREN.

Suggestions? You've talked about the reasons why you think you know so much about raising kids, and criticised my friends parenting, but you've not given a single suggestion as to how you think kids should be disciplined.

Your first post also just banged on about antiquated superstitions and beating kids with weapons, something that no other poster actually mentioned. Are you sure you don't beat your siblings, or line your tennis students up and shoot at them with the ball dispenser?

Imagine that, coming up with ways to parent your child, instead of coming up with new things to beat them with.

Well so far, you haven't, so perhaps you're lacking somewhat in the imagination department, Smoothie.

And before you say it, yes i know i'm a cunt.

 

[Loveless]

I was spanked as a child, mainly because i couldn't be locked in my room because i broke the bedroom door, and didn't have a huge variety of toys i cared about anyway, so physical punishment was how my parents disciplined me.

Toys is just one way of doing it and you're right, it wouldn't work for some kids. I never cared for my toys either so my mum took away something I did care about. It's not 1 rule for every kid but it helps if you stop bad behaviour before you end up with kids kicking down doors.
I've only been smacked once and it was by my mums twat of a boyfriend, not only did it not work, it majorly pissed me off and caused nothing but problems between us until the day he died. I'm not exactly a forgiving person.

I'm now 24 and haven't been involved in an actual fight in nearly 9 years, and believe me there's been plenty of opportunities, so i'm afraid that your 'violence breeds violence' theory is not as absolute as you think.

Good for you but the very fact you're arguing the case for smacking kids kind of proves my point. Even if it's not you getting into a fight, you kids might not react so well to being smacked, this is assuming you're that kind of parent.

I am frequently praised for my courtesy and manners by people who are older than me, and have a better relationship with my family than the majority of my friends, and that's after about 10 years of being smacked on the ass whenever i stepped out of line.

Different people react different ways. Obviously it's not as simple as

Smacking = Well behaved child

I think it really comes down to the parents. Some can smack their children but they do it in a way that's explained and not abitrary. Unfortunately some parents will do it simply out of frustration and anger which is less than ideal.

In the UK, you're no longer allowed to hit your children, and now we're suffering probably the worst generation of youngsters our country has ever seen. Kids are getting worse, and worse, and worse. We've now got 12 year olds calling each other *****, stabbing each other left and right, and most of them can't wait to take drugs. We don't give birth to children anymore in the UK, we spawn anarchistic demons instead.

Ah you're not one of those Daily Mail readers by any chance are you? Thing's really aren't as bad they seem. It's unfortunate that it's always the bad kids that get the attention and I really do believe they're the minority. What has happened is that the worst kids are now worse than ever and for that I totally blame the parents.
You're kind of on the right track about kids being spawned instead of raised. So many parents are just so unbelievably lazy, self-righteous and greedy. I've been calling them the Warhol Generation for years because they've been suckered in by this "famous for 15 minutes" society that tells them that they can have everything, perfect marriage, kids, job, social life and not have to work or sacrifice a damn thing to get it "just lyke dat Jordahn on da telly" you probably know the type, 4 or 5 kids but still out clubbing until the early morning and gettting off their face. I fucking hate those people.

Sitting down and talking to them all nice and friendly doesn't work with fuckin' adult criminals, so why do you think it's going to work with children who have no idea of how to behave?

You're right, it doesn't work with adults, the idea is you teach them how to behave before they turn into criminals. They don't come out the fucking womb waving knives, everything they learn is from the people they're surrounded by. Kids really aren't difficult, once you've broken their idea of "I'm in charge" they're quite malleable. I hate to cite the TV on this but Supernanny has got it spot on. You stick them in one spot as punishment, they'll fight you like hell for hours on end but you just has to keep reasserting your dominance, eventually they'll submit and you've won. That's where lazy or weak parents fail and it's why their kids run riot.

3 years ago during my Uni degree, we conducted a survey with about 100 people about parents being allowed to punish their children. Not one of them said that they thought spanking was a bad idea, and most of them were pissed off that the government tells them what they can and cannot do to raise their children.

Parents, by their nature are self-righteous pricks. Moreso than anyone else, they hate being told what to do because they feel that, as parents, they're past that stage. Public opinion really doesn't mean shit, especially not on this subject.

Do you want to know what the most common response was to the question; 'do you agree with spanking as a form of discipline?' was?

"It never did me any harm."

Do you honestly think that anyone approached in the street about this is going to tell a stranger with a clipboard if it did affect them negatively. That's assuming they even know how it's affected them.

My best mate has a 4 yr old daughter, and he takes her toys away, locks her in her room, takes away her TV and Wii repeatedly, and she's still a nightmare when there's lots of people around. She believes that everyone is there to see her, so she thinks she can get away with anything. Even when everyone in the room is telling her off at once, she still plays up constantly. Don't get me wrong, she apologises for being naughty, but it's obvious she's just saying it so that the adults will stop shouting at her, because as soon as they forgive her, she goes and does it again. A full on rewards and punishment system has been inforced in that household in order to get her to behave, and she still doesn't, so what do you suggest my friends do?

Let's see

She likes attention
She misbehaves to get attention
Everyone gives her attention by telling her off

Positive reinforcement of bad behaviour. Taking away her toys won't bother her because the people around her are her toys in that moment. You can either ignore her (which is admittedly very difficult in a group) or you can put her to bed or out of the way until she behaves. What would then happen would be she'd behave for a few minutes and start again, at which point she's put right back in bed again. Rinse and repeat until she gets the message. Personally though I'd say it'd be a hell of a lot easier to train that out of her when the house isn't so busy.

Of the 8 of you who've posted so far, how many of you actually have children? And on top of that, how many of you were disciplined by your parents hurting you physically? I ask because if not one of you has children or have experienced being disciplined in that manner, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Had a child, my ex's for 3 years. Never had a problem, mainly because the child knew neither me or her mum put up with any nonsense. I've also had care of my cousins, one of which has something like aspbergers or ADHD (Dr's still unsure) and my sister who is mentally disabed. Aaaaaaaaand as if that's not enough, I've got a qualification in child psychology.
You've only got your own experience, just like the rest of us I suppose so, turning your last statement on it's head, how would you know if non-violent discipline works if you've not experienced it?

Long reply, I need a drink

 

[ABMorales787]

As an older brother by a 12 year difference, I've had to babysit quite often. My baby sister isn't exactly "disciplined". She tends to grab food without permission (eating my lunch of all things) and continuously talking back whenever spoken to. She spends much of her time grounded. Its not doing much. Spanking her and then explaining why does for a while, but its not effective. The reason she acts this way is because while I was in school and my parents were working, she stayed at her grandma's. She had no control. Letting her eat whatever she wanted and run around basically unsupervised. Of course we stopped sending her there. But whats done is done. She learned to behave that way.

The problem is finding a way to fix it. Unless you can prevent your child from learning a bad habit, its gonna be hard for them to "unlearn" them. Every kid is different. they learn differently. The same goes for losing bad habits. Its up to us as parents and siblings to learn how to control our children. Some learn by simply telling them and for others its harder. Its never the same. So we have to find a different method for each.

As for actually spanking them, I'd be careful. You want your kid to understand that you don't like what they're doing and just that. You want to get their attention, not hurt them. Its tough. Try not to go all "Matilda" on them.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Are you blaming the increase in violence on the decrease of violence in the home?

No, i'm not.

How does this make sense again? First, very few crimes have actually increased, the reporting of them has. The police have got better at finding drugs, people have got better at reporting violent crimes.

But that doesn't mean anything regarding the average child does it? Those statistics are based on the country as a whole, not just people under the age of 16.

We find more children with knives because we perform more stop and searches on youngsters than in the past.

After we started finding more stabbed kids.

Secondly, where have you got this from? Stop believing the media in that we live in 'Broken Britain'

I don't believe anything unless it actually happens in front of me. I don't read the paper or watch the news ever, so yes i'm uninformed, but 2 years ago, i couldn't go 3 days without hearing about someone being violently attacked by youngsters. Fuck, in eastleigh last year, a taxi driver was set on fire by kids! Imagine that, you're sat listening to the radio waiting for a fare, and suddenly some 15 year olds set you ablaze for the crack of it. Don't recall hearing about that happening before hand.

the amount of children who are well behaved and don't gain a criminl record FAR outweigh the ones who do.

See, now where did you get that from? Those 'statistics' i mean.

'Most' children go on to have normal non-criminal lives.

I'm talking about people who are kids now, so how can you say most of them grow up to be decent members of society when they haven't got there yet?

And you think BEATING them does?

See, now you're blowing what i said out of proportion. I said 'spanking', not 'beating'. A single, open hand slap on the backside is the other end of the violence spectrum to repeatedly punching someone until they submit, don't you think?

Amazing how i say 'spank' and i have you read 'beat' and SSC read 'pick up a bat and go to town on the kid's skull'.

I will never understand how people argue a decrease of violence in the homes makes MORE violence in the street. 'Nice and friendly' doesn't do it. Firm does.

I agree, but when that STILL doesn't work, you need to up the ante somehow, and a large number of people think that spanking (that's spanking not beating) would be the next logical step in disciplining their child.

Give them nothing to do, take away their favourite things, sit them somewhere boring, they'll learn.

Or, they don't and the cycle of awful behaviour continues. I appreciate that that is how you probably discipline your child, and obviously it works for you, but as Big Sexy said, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for others. Each child will be an amalgamation of their parents through their genes, so if one parent is a mild mannered, friendly person and the other is a raving psychopath, then the child is going to go grow up to be something in between. Add in any psychological effects that any medication you give young children may have, plus any shit the mother may have taken during pregnancy, medicinal or otherwise, and you've basically pulling a random drawing for how you're child will turn out, and then you've got to try and mold them the way you want them to be, which isn't always going to work if you follow one person's step by step guide on how to be a parent.

In 5 years I've never hit my little girl and she's never been in trouble at school and is top of her class.

Kudos to you, i imagine you must be very proud of her. How old is she out of interest?

In Nazi Germany if you asked a majority of the people there they'd say they didn't think Hitler's plan was a bad idea. Just because it's what many people think doesn't make it right.

Actually, in the majority of post-Nazi Germany interviews i've seen in the 8 years of studying it, they said they knew damn well there was no good reason to kill the Jews etc, but were so angry over what happened to their country after WWI, and had such faith in Hitler's determination to restore their former glory, that they simply went along with it. Fucked up huh? But when the whole world lumps you in debt so high you'll never repay it as well as taking everything of value from the entire country leaving it in absolute ruin, you'd do anything or follow anyone who could make it all better, and before the death camps started cropping up, Hitler did exactly that. You've got to love the Germans for their efficiency and determination. They rebuilt their country from ruins twice in the space of 40 years. They certainly don't deserve to be branded as 'evil' because an Austrian convinced them to elect him as their leader and then made it so that no one could make him relinquish the position. Anyway......

Also, the law on this, in the UK, is that you can physically punish your child as long as it doesn't leave a lasting mark or bruise - how are people arguing this is a bad thing? I know, let's allow you to give your child a black eye, scars and a bad back from the beatings.

See, again, i said spanked, you said beating the kid black and blue.

It may have done them harm, who knows? Unless we look at their lives, and there's an indepth study into the effects, who knows if it has affected their lives?

Well we interviewed a wide variety of people, including people in their 50's with well paid positions of responsibilty, so it obviously didn't send them off the deep end did it?

She thinks everyone's there to see her?

I'm no psycho analyst, but that's the impression i get. It's not like she says 'look at everyone who's come to see me or anything', but she definitely acts up more depending on how many people they are present, and if none of them are her own age group. When she's with other kids she's an angel, when she plays on her own or is around adults, she's not always as well behaved.

What i should have also stated is that they have just had a 2nd child, and it is only recently that her behaviour has gotten worse, which i would expect considering the induction of a new born into the family.

They should try and involve her in conversations, or allow her to listen and talk also, to give her attention and a feeling of worth in a subtle, calm way. If she continues with the screaming, the time alone, bored, continues.

That's what they do now, it doesn't really work.

Soon she'll associate tantrums and screaming with that boredom, and change her behaviour.

You say that as if it's time tested methodology with a 100% success rate, which obviously isn't the case.

I have a child, I've never hit her, and she's never been in any trouble at school. When she does have a temper tantrum as all young children do, I do everything I've said in this thread, don't use physical punishment, and the behaviour stops.

That's fair enough. You didn't state whether you were spanked as a kid or not though.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

And? What's your point?

Well I was answering your question that you posed right here.

Of the 8 of you who've posted so far, how many of you actually have children? And on top of that, how many of you were disciplined by your parents hurting you physically? I ask because if not one of you has children or have experienced being disciplined in that manner, then you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you remember now??

But you were spanked, and unless you're going to admit to being unruly, discourteous and violent, then you're only proving my argument.

Well I'm a total Pot head, I break the law anywhere from 2 to 10 times a day because of it.

So therefore you're only means of discipline are giving 'time outs' and verbal warnings, whereas a parent should be able to raise their child however they see fit

.

Some parents may see it fit to lock their children in a fucking crate, but let em do what they want, They combined their penis and vagina so they have the right.

Because you teach tennis and babysit? I hope you've got something more substantial than that to back up your claim.

Four younger siblings that I have helped raise, and helping to discipline children that are not even mine.. What was your experience again?

First of all, she still is a young child, secondly her father was in prison for the first 3 years of her life, so yes she's spoiled to some degree, because she's been without a father for 75% of her life, but when he lays down the law, that's it, discussion over, and while she's more obidient with him, she's still difficult to handle.

So she was spoiled at a young age, Thank you for that point.

Did you not have a TV as a kid? In this day and age it's a basic thing that just about every child has regardless of attitude or behaviour.

Yes, but at four I didn't get to choose when I watched it, I also didn't have any video game systems at that age

When i said a reward system, i mean a chart where she gets a smily face added every time she behaves throughout the entire day. If she's naughty once, she gets no smily faces. In order to receive any treats or pocket money, she has to get 50 smiley faces. So far, in 3 weeks, she's gotten 5.

I comprehend that

Really dude, you should try asking more questions before responding, instead of talking like A) you know me, and B) you know my friends, because it only makes you look stupid overall.

You gave me the description I had to work with, and I stand by what I said.

I'm not comparing them at all. Adults have developed minds right? Yet a fair percentage of them still beat the hell out of each other on a regular basis, discriminate against other social groups purely because other people they know discriminate against those same social groups, have no regard for other people's property etc etc, and these aren't even the people who end up in prison, this is your typical person within modern day society.

actually you where, and here is your quote

Sitting down and talking to them all nice and friendly doesn't work with fuckin' adult criminals, so why do you think it's going to work with children who have no idea of how to behave?

You want more, that percentage of adults you speak of, that beat the hell out of each other, probably had dads that beat the shit out of them when they where little.

I'm not even talking about murderers, kiddie fiddler's, masochists, drug dealers or any of the real scum of the earth. It has been proven that rehabilitation and sitting people down and talking to them, does nothing to prevent from re-offending 90% of the time.

Because you develop as a child, they are adults, maybe they situation would be different if they where talked to as children instead of being beaten??

So what i'm saying is, if a large percentage of adults don't behave the way they want their children to, EVEN when they've been incarcerated for their behaviour, why would you expect the kids to behave using that same methodology?

sounds like a bad example being set

Suggestions? You've talked about the reasons why you think you know so much about raising kids, and criticised my friends parenting, but you've not given a single suggestion as to how you think kids should be disciplined.

I gave a suggestion, not to beat your kids and think of something better. There is a world of possibilities. You admitted she was spoiled, so in turn you admitted I was right.

Your first post also just banged on about antiquated superstitions and beating kids with weapons, something that no other poster actually mentioned. Are you sure you don't beat your siblings, or line your tennis students up and shoot at them with the ball dispenser?

Someone is out of material, I'm on here saying not to beat your kids, and all you can do is suggest that I beat my siblings with weapons, and blast my students with the ball machine.

Humor me more good sir.

Well so far, you haven't, so perhaps you're lacking somewhat in the imagination department, Smoothie.

I don't have kids to worry about, and I'm not getting payed to parent your friends kid, no need to be imaginative, just basic, simple discipline.

And before you say it, yes i know i'm a cunt.

That's a little harsh, I like to use the term prick for people who beat their kids

 

[HBK-aholic]

But that doesn't mean anything regarding the average child does it? Those statistics are based on the country as a whole, not just people under the age of 16.

Children under 16 are part of the country as a whole.

After we started finding more stabbed kids.

No, after reporting of crime increased, stop and search increased. Stereotypes of young hoodies and black people being more likely to be criminal have lead to more stop and searches, which have led to more knife convictions. I'm not necessarily arguing knife crime hasn't increased, I think it's one of the few crimes that HAS, I just think the increase in looking for these things renders the comparisons pretty useless.

I don't believe anything unless it actually happens in front of me. I don't read the paper or watch the news ever, so yes i'm uninformed, but 2 years ago, i couldn't go 3 days without hearing about someone being violently attacked by youngsters. Fuck, in eastleigh last year, a taxi driver was set on fire by kids! Imagine that, you're sat listening to the radio waiting for a fare, and suddenly some 15 year olds set you ablaze for the crack of it. Don't recall hearing about that happening before hand.

Bad things have happened in the past. Have you spoke to these children and found out whether they were physically punished as children? The case could be that they WERE hit and that's lead to the behaviour.

See, now where did you get that from? Those 'statistics' i mean.

Look at the amount of youths in Young Offenders Institutions, and the ones who aren't. Look at the amount of youngsters with ASBOs, look at the ones who don't.

See, now you're blowing what i said out of proportion. I said 'spanking', not 'beating'. A single, open hand slap on the backside is the other end of the violence spectrum to repeatedly punching someone until they submit, don't you think?

Sure, you might spank your child. How many others take that too far? The guidelines are quite simple, don't leave a mark, or bruise on your child. However, personally, I see both as violence towards a child, something I would never do.

I agree, but when that STILL doesn't work, you need to up the ante somehow, and a large number of people think that spanking (that's spanking not beating) would be the next logical step in disciplining their child.

It's not logical to think violence will stop violence and aggression.

Or, they don't and the cycle of awful behaviour continues. I appreciate that that is how you probably discipline your child, and obviously it works for you, but as Big Sexy said, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for others. Each child will be an amalgamation of their parents through their genes, so if one parent is a mild mannered, friendly person and the other is a raving psychopath, then the child is going to go grow up to be something in between. Add in any psychological effects that any medication you give young children may have, plus any shit the mother may have taken during pregnancy, medicinal or otherwise, and you've basically pulling a random drawing for how you're child will turn out, and then you've got to try and mold them the way you want them to be, which isn't always going to work if you follow one person's step by step guide on how to be a parent.

There is no guide, any parent will tell you that. But there are things not to do, and I think physically harming them is one of them.

Kudos to you, i imagine you must be very proud of her. How old is she out of interest?

She was 8 on Tuesday.

Actually, in the majority of post-Nazi Germany interviews i've seen in the 8 years of studying it, they said they knew damn well there was no good reason to kill the Jews etc, but were so angry over what happened to their country after WWI, and had such faith in Hitler's determination to restore their former glory, that they simply went along with it. Fucked up huh? But when the whole world lumps you in debt so high you'll never repay it as well as taking everything of value from the entire country leaving it in absolute ruin, you'd do anything or follow anyone who could make it all better, and before the death camps started cropping up, Hitler did exactly that. You've got to love the Germans for their efficiency and determination. They rebuilt their country from ruins twice in the space of 40 years. They certainly don't deserve to be branded as 'evil' because an Austrian convinced them to elect him as their leader and then made it so that no one could make him relinquish the position. Anyway......

Anyone who was involved in any type of violence or murder of Jewish people are 'evil' in my book. The same for those who let it happen.

See, again, i said spanked, you said beating the kid black and blue.

I'm not saying YOU said that. You said other people have said they hate the Government thinking they can tell; you what to do with a child. I said the guidelines which state you can't leave a bruise are very straightforward guidelines, and anyone who thinks bruising your child is accceptable shouldn't have one.

Well we interviewed a wide variety of people, including people in their 50's with well paid positions of responsibilty, so it obviously didn't send them off the deep end did it?

You don't know the effects, that's my point. You think some stupid questionnaire could find that out? It would need to be a completely indepth, longitudinal study using a variety of methods and then a comparison to find out if people really were 'affected'.

What i should have also stated is that they have just had a 2nd child, and it is only recently that her behaviour has gotten worse, which i would expect considering the induction of a new born into the family.

True, the parents should make sure she gets just as much POSITIVE attention as she did previously, or as close to it as possible.

That's what they do now, it doesn't really work.

If they team it with the other things you said, I understand why.

You say that as if it's time tested methodology with a 100% success rate, which obviously isn't the case.

Neither does smacking. I'd much rather my child learn through positive means than by causing her physical pain.

That's fair enough. You didn't state whether you were spanked as a kid or not though.

Never as a child. Maybe once as a teenager.

 

[Phoenix]

Thing is, when I think back to over a decade a go, I remember getting a smack on the bottom if I done something extremely naughty or bad, it taught me to behave and that was wrong because that's what my parents showed me, that I would have a sore arse for doing something wrong and it worked, I didn't do it again. But what also occured is that it was a rare occurance, it had to be something extremely bad. In the end, I have avoided fistfights and been quite a disciplined person.

But then we think of how "it's wrong" for children to get smacked, our parents got caned by their TEACHERS over 40 years ago and they think we've taken domestic violence too far? The real problem is discipline, especially self-discipline in children has really eased up and basically no-one gives a smeg anymore. The best two examples I can come up with are, firstly, at ATC. Outside of the sargeants and warrant officers, only so few lower rank or general cadets were self disciplined, more so in the later years in comparison to when I joined. They're mainly think it's a piss take yet I got benefits from being self disciplined and got some of the best honours available during my time there.

The other is with me and my brother, my age group was the last of "being self disciplined" before the wild bunches came in and my brother was amongst them. Out of the three of us, my brother had the most for detentions and discipline actions, he just simply was a little shit. The problem I felt was that while he had a terrific parent in our mother, it's the influence of the other children that caused him to be worse than anything. Naturally things like being grounded or detention just encouraged more rebelling which is what is happening more often than anything. While detention is like confinement for some, they see it as a way of getting out of class.

Back to the point, you can see how because of the law, peer pressure and general attitudes in life today, children are getting worse because they lack self discipline due to their parents being restricted on how to discipline them. I don't have children, but come the day I do, I would most likely implement a similiar method my parents did where you have weak disciplines and extremes, so pending on how bad my child does, they will receive a punishment in a similiar fashion. I want my child to know how to be self disciplined and regardless of the peer pressure of being "cool", it's better to stayed focused and grow up responsibly and respectfully.

 

[Jonnie Walker]

I think you should be allowed to hit your kids. Not beat them, just smack their ass if they act up. Some kids need to be corrected. My younger brother thought he was cool mouthing off to my mom in front of his friends and my mom gave him a little slap in the face. Damn sure corrected him. Telling people to do stuff doesn't mean they'll do it, that's what rebels are for. But if you show your kid you mean business and you aren't taking no shit, yeah, smack him.

 

[LamaNamaneumi]

My parents were hippies and should not have been parents. We got to do whatever we wanted as long as the cops did not come to our house, so what did Lama do....that's right I was in all kinds of trouble with the law. Every now and then my dad would take out the belt and whoop my ass. As I got older I learned from my mistakes and do not get in trouble any more.
My girl has a son who is 13 now and has only been spanked once in his life. he was taught at a young age what was acceptable and what was not. You just give him a look and he will get his shit together. we would make him go to the "naughty boy chair" when he was a kid, he would get The number of minutes as his age(5=5 min,6=6 min and so on) Then we would ask him if he knew why he was in the chair and explain to him what he did wrong.
That is the main thing explain to the kid why they are in trouble so they know what they did wrong. The only problem I have with parents are the ones who do that count to 10 shit and always go 1...2...3...3 and a 1/2....3 and 3/4...and so on what is that teaching??? Or the ones who say wait until your dad/mom gets home, thats good make them fear one parent and disrespect the other.

But hell I don't have any kids of my own, I got a cat you can beat them........kidding.

 

[The Gribbler]

Beating your kids is the wrong way to go about things, If my memory serves me correctly, the main reason people used to beat their kids was to beat the "evil" or the "devil" out of them, and I'm sure the very same thing still goes on today.

Beating your kids serves no purpose, unless you want them to fear you, and if raising your child with fear is how you want to go about it, than so be it. Its the wrong way to go about things, its 2010 people, there are much better ways to go about disciplining your children. If anything beating your kids, especially at a young age is only going to do harm to their development.

let the crazy southern baptists beat the devil out of their children, their stuck in the past anyway, why not try being a parent, instead of beating your kid with a belt.

It seems to me most people who don't have a problem beating their kids also don't have a problem beating their spouse's either, there's a reason schools can't beat your kids anymore, catch up with the times and start parenting your child.

Beating your kids and smacking them on the ass are two completley different things. My mother and father never beat me but when i was outta line they smacked my ass. It hurts, it leaves no scars, it stops hurting after about 2 minutes. Its not cruel or anything like that.

I think you need to try the non physical ways of dealing with shit first but spanking needs to be held in reserve.

I was spanked when I did some really bad shit (broke my brothers nose once...i swear it was an accident) and I learned to not do it again.

Just My Opinion

 

[FromTheSouth]

You should never be allowed to hit your child and a good parent wouldn't need to.

So my parents are bad parents? That's fucking bullshit. Parents should hit their kids more. Have you seen kids today? They run roughshod over adults. This is the first generation of parents who think spanking is a bad idea, and look at the kids they have raised. They are disrespectful little punks who rebel against everything because no one ever took the time to remind them that there is always someone bigger and badder than they are. They have no manners and think the world owes them something. I say parents that don't spank their children are unfit.

You think disclipline is about fear and violence? Causing pain?

Do you think that spanking is about fear and violence? In nature, animals constantly check their children. It's about discipline and putting a kid in their place. We could bite them on the neck like wolves, but a little civility would be nice. Children have been spanked for years, and now, that there is some ******ed idea that spanking is bad, kids are worse than ever. Connection? I think so.

Yeah, I wouldn't get on with any parent who thinks that. Discipline is about being firm, yet calm, it's about teaching a child right from wrong. Kids can make you want to scream and rip your hair out at times, but all hitting them does is cause more commotion by having them screaming, and I'd feel absolutely terrible after doing it.

Not as bad as the people around you that have to put up with insolent little children. People who don't spank have no consideration for the people around them. They think letting a kid cry their eyes out in public will get a message across.

You want to punish a child? Take away their sweets or favourite toy.

And when that doesn't work?

There's enough violence in the world without you projecting it onto your kids from a young age.

The fact that you mistake discipline with violence shows naivete. It's the natural order of things.

 

[HBK-aholic]

So my parents are bad parents? That's fucking bullshit. Parents should hit their kids more. Have you seen kids today? They run roughshod over adults. This is the first generation of parents who think spanking is a bad idea, and look at the kids they have raised. They are disrespectful little punks who rebel against everything because no one ever took the time to remind them that there is always someone bigger and badder than they are. They have no manners and think the world owes them something. I say parents that don't spank their children are unfit.

People keep using this argument, but, first, has their been a recent study into these delinquents? How do you know they didn't get smacked? You don't, you just think it helps your argument. You act as if they act like this because they weren't physically punished, when in reality, in could be that that has caused them to act this way, don't you think?

And my daughter is well behaved and happy without me ever physically punishing her, but damn me for being an unfit parent .

Do you think that spanking is about fear and violence? In nature, animals constantly check their children. It's about discipline and putting a kid in their place. We could bite them on the neck like wolves, but a little civility would be nice. Children have been spanked for years, and now, that there is some ******ed idea that spanking is bad, kids are worse than ever. Connection? I think so.

I think not. There have been delinquent youth cultures in England since after the Second world war, and when secondary education became compulsary. Religion used to play a big part in people's behaviour, and now recently, that's declined - people no longer fear 'hell'. I think you're making too much of an assumption without looking at other factors, or knowing whether those who have a criminal record were punished as a child physically. Also, many parents still do smack their children; less than you think have stopped it and they're mostly from the middle classes - where the crime rate is LESS.

(This covers England only, I haven't looked at this in America, so our opinions may never match up here for cultural reasons)

Not as bad as the people around you that have to put up with insolent little children. People who don't spank have no consideration for the people around them. They think letting a kid cry their eyes out in public will get a message across.

If I hit my daughter you think she'd STOP crying? She'll scream more! You're one of those people who'd stand with their nose turned up thinking you know better if a child is throwing a tantrum in a supermarket. Do you have kids, by the way?

And when that doesn't work?

There are many, many parenting techniques that don't involve smacking a child, people will have to look around to see which helps their child. I'm sure you'll come back with asking what to do when none work? But if you look at programmes like Supernanny, some of the children on their are little brats who do wrong. At the end of a show even the rudest child is polite, and not one ounce of physical punishment was used.

The fact that you mistake discipline with violence shows naivete. It's the natural order of things.

Sorry, in what world is a smack or slap not violence?

 

[NSL]

Beating your kids is the wrong way to go about things.

"Beating"...Yes, wrong. Spanking your child to discipline them...Completely OK.

As a father I laugh at anyone who says they don't need to hit their kid for them to listen, because 99% of the time, their kid seriously needs a hand across their ass to get their attention. Ever walk through Wal Mart, here a kid screaming because mommy won't buy his favorite toy, and you think to yourself "Spoiled brat...I'd shut him up.."?

No? Well, sorry to hear that. I love my son, and would never hurt him, but there are times (less frequently now than say, 3 years ago) that the best thing to get his attention and calm him down is a swat on the ass. It's not to injure him, maim him, or scar him for life. It gets his attention, lets him know I meanb business, and within 30 seconds he's his usual playful self. He doesn't scream out in pain, he doesn't cry, he doesn't throw a tantrum, he just knows he needs to stop, and does so.

Big sexy said it best, that there is no "right" way to discipline a child. In a perfect world, there's no need to, but that's not how it is. some kids react to being spanked, some react to a stern lecture, and some react to you screaming and pulling your hair out. My son just happens to be one where a smack on the ass and a look are enough for him to know what I'm saying without actually opening my mouth.

 

[Loveless]

"Beating"...Yes, wrong. Spanking your child to discipline them...Completely OK.

There's no difference. Absolutely none. It's violence to gain control of a situation that you should have gotten control of far before that point.

As a father I laugh at anyone who says they don't need to hit their kid for them to listen, because 99% of the time, their kid seriously needs a hand across their ass to get their attention. Ever walk through Wal Mart, here a kid screaming because mommy won't buy his favorite toy, and you think to yourself "Spoiled brat...I'd shut him up.."?

So now it's to get their attention as well as discipline? Would you like to add anything more to the list of reasons to smack your child when they're not doing what you want?
I laugh at anyone who say it's necessary to smack their children. It's totally avoidable and is only an option to those people who don't have the patience to do things properly.

No? Well, sorry to hear that. I love my son, and would never hurt him, but there are times (less frequently now than say, 3 years ago) that the best thing to get his attention and calm him down is a swat on the ass. It's not to injure him, maim him, or scar him for life. It gets his attention, lets him know I meanb business, and within 30 seconds he's his usual playful self. He doesn't scream out in pain, he doesn't cry, he doesn't throw a tantrum, he just knows he needs to stop, and does so.

Does best mean quickest? The fact is that despite you discipling him in this way for at least 3 years, you're still having to use this method occasionally which suggests it only works to a point anyway and isn't educating the child in the right way to behave, only telling him how not to.
My feeling is that if you've got the moment where you feel that you have to smack your child the likelihood is that you've already failed to discipline them adequately in the past which has lead you here.
I don't mean you specifically here by the way, I'm talking in general terms.

Big sexy said it best, that there is no "right" way to discipline a child. In a perfect world, there's no need to, but that's not how it is. some kids react to being spanked, some react to a stern lecture, and some react to you screaming and pulling your hair out. My son just happens to be one where a smack on the ass and a look are enough for him to know what I'm saying without actually opening my mouth.

It's all a matter of opinion and it'll never be resolved, which was something I found terribly frustrating about psychology. All any of us can do is argue our case.
This idea that some children react better to discipline than others doesn't wash with me. Except for those with mental illness, they all come out as blank slates and everything you do from that moment is the cause of how they react. If you've done things the right way from that moment then you'll never reach that point of needing to smack them. On the other hand if you've fucked up and not enforced non-violence properly you'll find yourself with no faith in it and feeling you need something stronger.

Is anyone here actually going to argue that fear is preferable to respect?