Did HHH ever deserve to close Wrestlemania?

[AegonTargaryen]

Hey guys(and girls).

I was watching Randy Orton Vs Cesaro from Smackdown before Elimination Chamber 2014. Anyhow, images of HHH putting over/losing to Shelton Benjamin passed before me, from April 2004. And then HHH NOT putting over CM Punk in their one and only match at NOC(or was it Vengeance?) 2011. It got me thinking: Obviously, The WWE made a mistake back then since HHH vs Punk would've been better as a first-timer AT Wrestlemania. And so on. And then I thought of how Punk resented the fact that even though he WAS one of the mainevents of Wrestlemania 28 as a defending champion, he never got to close the show..and I wondered if he ever would have gotten to end Wrestlemania, had he been around still...it could've been against anyone...HHH, Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins, even the dreaded and godforsaken Roman Reigns.

But but but, thinking/unconscious memories are rather swift and before even a minute passed, I'm thinking..HHH did actually close Wrestlemanias- 25, 18..and so did Austin, Rock, Taker, among others.

However, I seemed to believe(in my own thoughts), only the biggest matches end Wrestlemania or ought to..including Hogan vs Rock, Rock vs Austin(WM15 and 17)..and even 19, though I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar vs Angle closing the show. But did any HHH match that wasn't the biggest match on that said WM deserve to? If Punk wasn't allowed, or gonna be allowed(which Punk himself said and resented) to close it despite being champ, did HHH?

This isn't specifically an anti-HHH or hate-HHH and all his politics thread. But I really thought of it and clarity on this question still eludes me.

Simply put, what do you guys think? Did he deserve to close the Wrestlemanias he did actually close? You can even specify particular Wrestlemanias, the contexts, the backstage news' from those times if you like. Ciao.

EDIT:-

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.

 

[Lord_Frish]

He deserved it in Wrestlemania 2000, easily the best heel at the time, he just went over Cactus Jack in one of Foley's last matches of his main career.

Wrestlemania 18 should have been Hogan Rock as the main event. I think the reason why it wasn't the main event was up until mania weekend Hogan was meant to stay heel. They changed it to a Hogan face turn and (pretty much) killed the WWE NWO. However, Hogan returning to his Hulkamania roots while wrestling The Rock deserved the main event spot.

Triple H was the best person to put over Benoit in Wrestlemania 20, once again he deserved to be there.

21 is a hard one, all four of JBL, Cena, Batista, and HHH deserved the main event. In hindsight Cena and JBL probably deserved it more. But at the time it seemed as if Batista would be the bigger star. Cena was a guy who got huge fan reactions but was mostly featured on the B show.

22 Cena and HHH deserved it. The match wasn't great but that is the kind of headline that sells tickets and closes a show.

24 Edge and Taker definitely deserved that one. I believe it was their first singles match. At this point Cena, Orton and HHH had matched up fairly often, it was nothing new. Taker vs Edge is a headline that can bring back attitude era fans for one show at least.

25 HHH and Orton should have been a match or two before the main event. It should have lasted 5 minutes. HHH should have run in there and killed Orton with a sledgehammer for what he did to Stephanie. The whole build up was that HHH wanted to avenge her more than he wanted the title. They went and had a normal match. HHH destroys Orton with the sledgehammer. Give the main event to HBK and Taker.

 

[Checkmate]

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.

Of the matches in question, 18, 21, 22, and 25 are the ones that really have some case to be made, even if the case is small.

18: This is a case of hindsight being 20/20. Okay, so maybe they all are, but Hogan was getting on in years then, hadn't worked a big match in some time (or any match, really. He worked a 3 on 2 handicap match the RAW before. That's it). This was the first Wrestlemania where the Undisputed Title would be defended, and the Jericho/Triple H angle had a ton of time invested in it. This was also red hot babyface Triple H who had just returned from injury. At the time, it made sense for this to be the main event.

21: You could argue that Cena/JBL could have been the main event instead. Regardless, this was the big payoff for both Batista and Cena's rise to the top of the card. But, Batista was a bit hotter, his build was a bit bigger, and he was on RAW while Cena was on Smackdown. Also, the Royal Rumble winner meant more at the time than it does now. It's like a 70/30 coin flip in Triple H's favor.

22: The only other match on the card to overtake Triple H/Cena would have been Rey Mysterio/Kurt Angle/Randy Orton. Could it have happened? Maybe. It would have been the big payoff to the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero's memory angle, but it would have needed more match time, as that triple threat flew by. Cena was a much bigger deal by this time, and they were putting him over everybody. A clean win over Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania would have needed an Undertaker/Kurt Angle match to possibly bump it down the card.

25: I think your best case is here. HBK/Taker was huge. The build was huge. Granted, the Orton/HHH build was big too, but felt lackluster in comparison. Also, the payoff was pretty weak. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew how good HBK/Taker would be. Nobody knew they'd gas out the entire crowd. All things considered, if Rock/Hogan didn't get to main event, then HBK/Taker is understandably not the main event either. And the other title match of Cena/Edge/Big Show didn't have a shot in hell.

So, I'd have to say that Triple H belonged in each of those scenarios, though sometimes it was because of who he was in the ring with. At 16, it was the storyline, and he was a big part of it. At 18, it was him. At 20, it was both Benoit's moment and another step in the HHH/HBK rivalry. At 21, it was Batista's moment. At 22, Cena's. I guess 25 was his weakest main event slot, but still, it was probably the right thing to do at the time.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Wrestlemania 16/2000 - Yes he was the top heel at the time. Unfortunately the main event was crap. WWE should just have either made it a straight up Triple H vs. The Rock main event or Triple H vs. Mick Foley vs. The Rock in a Triple Threat with a special stipulation (like a Hell in a Cell) if they wanted to play the Foley retirement/WM main event angle. Though having Triple H go over is just dumb regardless. If it was Triple H vs. Rock, Rock should have won. If it was a Triple Threat Rock or Foley should have won it.

Wrestlemania X8 - I am going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I am sure Triple H used his politics to close WM but I am also sure WWE didn't realize how big Hogan/Rock match was going to be. I remember someone in the WWE at the time that said they didn't anticipate Rock/Hogan to get the reaction it did. Remember this was the first match like it at the time since WCW recently just went under, I think many expected Rock/Hogan to be a big match but not the epic match it later became.

Wrestlemania XX - Yes since this was mostly because of Benoit's moment than anything.

Wrestlemania 21 - Batista/HHH was a pretty hot angle so yeah plus Batista was going to go over and WWE has trying to push Batsita as one of the next big stars.

Wrestlemania 22 - If WM22 has Taker/Angle instead, I probably would have had them close WM. Otherwise HHH/Cena was fine.

Wrestlemania 25 - Nope. Taker/Shawn Michaels should have closed this. Or at least if they made Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H the main event giving Jeff Hardy his WM moment I could see it closing WM. I would have preferred Orton/Cena and HHH/Hardy as the WM Title Matches TBH. Perhaps I was biased because I never got into the HHH/Orton feud.

 

[The Samoan Heritage]

Of the matches in question, 18, 21, 22, and 25 are the ones that really have some case to be made, even if the case is small.

18: This is a case of hindsight being 20/20. Okay, so maybe they all are, but Hogan was getting on in years then, hadn't worked a big match in some time (or any match, really. He worked a 3 on 2 handicap match the RAW before. That's it). This was the first Wrestlemania where the Undisputed Title would be defended, and the Jericho/Triple H angle had a ton of time invested in it. This was also red hot babyface Triple H who had just returned from injury. At the time, it made sense for this to be the main event.

21: You could argue that Cena/JBL could have been the main event instead. Regardless, this was the big payoff for both Batista and Cena's rise to the top of the card. But, Batista was a bit hotter, his build was a bit bigger, and he was on RAW while Cena was on Smackdown. Also, the Royal Rumble winner meant more at the time than it does now. It's like a 70/30 coin flip in Triple H's favor.

22: The only other match on the card to overtake Triple H/Cena would have been Rey Mysterio/Kurt Angle/Randy Orton. Could it have happened? Maybe. It would have been the big payoff to the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero's memory angle, but it would have needed more match time, as that triple threat flew by. Cena was a much bigger deal by this time, and they were putting him over everybody. A clean win over Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania would have needed an Undertaker/Kurt Angle match to possibly bump it down the card.

25: I think your best case is here. HBK/Taker was huge. The build was huge. Granted, the Orton/HHH build was big too, but felt lackluster in comparison. Also, the payoff was pretty weak. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew how good HBK/Taker would be. Nobody knew they'd gas out the entire crowd. All things considered, if Rock/Hogan didn't get to main event, then HBK/Taker is understandably not the main event either. And the other title match of Cena/Edge/Big Show didn't have a shot in hell.

So, I'd have to say that Triple H belonged in each of those scenarios, though sometimes it was because of who he was in the ring with. At 16, it was the storyline, and he was a big part of it. At 18, it was him. At 20, it was both Benoit's moment and another step in the HHH/HBK rivalry. At 21, it was Batista's moment. At 22, Cena's. I guess 25 was his weakest main event slot, but still, it was probably the right thing to do at the time.

I completely agree with just about everything you said except for the part about WM 25. Michaels and Taker was great and as great of a build they had, the Orton vs. Triple H feud was build just as good. Also Orton won that year's Royal Rumble(last eliminating....yep, TRIPLE H) which gave him the main event of WM 25.

I didn't even realise Triple H main evented this many WM. It just goes to show how great he can really be. There's not one match on here that I can honestly say Triple H wasn't the best choice for his opponent. How some the matches themselves were booked is a different story but the build and match placement is spot on.(Granted I can't remember much of the road to WM 18)

 

[kris8524]

Aside from rare matches like hbk vs Undertaker the WWE title and Royal Rumble winner should main event WM. The better question should be was HHH deserving of the Title or rumble win.

 

[LynchCats]

There have been numerous interviews regarding WM 18 in which both Triple H and Chris Jericho lobbied for Rock/Hogan to be the main event, because they didn't want to follow that matchup. Vince told them both no because the title had to be the main event.

 

[TheLittleOne]

i can totally understand where you are coming from, WrestleMania always put the Main Event / top match / biggest attraction / world title on the line.. as the final contest.. started that way at the inaugural wrestlemania with the biggest attraction / most hype / reason why event sold out not only msg but arenas all over america with closed circuit viewing.. can u imagine today - no ppv, no network, u wanna watch MANIA, buy ticket, go to arena, dark, look up at the big tv screen & it wasn't HD or LED tech!!!
back to topic!
then @ 2, again hogan v bundy, 3 the most iconic main event in wm to date still. still!
4 ehh different concept, 5,6,7 all had final match again as biggest attraction & title, 8 was first mania to advertise " double main event" and the title match was pre- break w/ macho man v flair giving the fans time with a popcorn match & i 4 get how many more before final contest hogan v sid which was no where near as good as flair v savage but it was OVER, & just watch it ended w/ uber long & loud pops for hogan & warrior... then 9 lil weird but yoko beats bret for belt in advertised MAIN then hogan defeats yoko for belt in improptu bout, even tho bret v yoko didnt have a big feel to it it still was the biggest attraction that night.. but it was rushed they could have had HUGE ICONIC battle with Hogan vs Bret but we know whats up w/ that,

10 gave us the most hyped match and title bout last w/ bret vs yoko 2, after yoko beat luger earlier.. but HBK v RAZOR in the 1st ppv Ladder Match stole the show in most opinions - but imo BRET v OWEN in the opening contest stole that show even tho both 2 matches tore it up, the hype was done right no matter how good the work rate in past Bret Yoko needed 2 b last
11 had diesel hbk for title but had bigelow v NY Giants' L. Taylor close the show which i can understand but LT vs BAM BAM should have been been on then popcorn match then hbk v diesel which does deserve me to say it was a great match and for wwe that year moty candidate but i give that to davey v bret from i think iyh dec..

12 one of my fav ppvs which i know is strange, return of the warrior was freakin HUGE for me & my friends since we loved WARRIOR in 88,89,90,91,92 it was more fun to watch his entrance then his match w/ HHH.. well its a non convo, Bret v Shawn had the hype, the title, and it delivered.. yea we had GREAT matches in years past ( 7 savage/warrior, 8 bret/piper, 10 bret/owen) but imo this was the first Main Event to be a GREAT wrestling match and the first main event / final contest to be most exciting / historic since 6 hogan/warrior...
~~ 13 is a Mania that i wish BRET vs AUSTIN was a title match and Last, it wasn't just the match of the night & match of the year but it had the hype, fans "bought into" the feud they went hard & it was pre austin's neck which he was never the same after, UNDERTAKER vs SID needed the title only for it to be main event / final.. but put it on 2 matches earlier w/ a gimmick like casket match or mayb cage or falls count any where it would have worked.. too bad hbk sat out w/ his " my knee hurts" gimmick ( love the way bret used to mock him bout that remember!!!
___14-_____ awesome event to usher in the attitude era full force, with out a doubt AUSTIN vs HBK was a very good match considering the horrific pain hbk was suffering through, i had the same injury in 06, i couldnt even run ring drills cant imagine 20 min main , BUT HBK did what hogan should have done for bret, and cleanly put over the next top guy ( i know hulky did it for warrior but hbk didnt kick out at 3!).. 14 had very good match w/ OWEN HART v HHH which i really wanted/felt owen should have won, very good tag match w/ outlaws v Foley & Funk, shamrock vs rock was good as they were 2 of the best top mid carders along w/ hunter&owen..

well i wanted to cover these as related to ur topic, i say WM4-14 all LIVE at home on ppv, very proud to be a long time fan, i started watching in 87 but saw 1,2,3 on VHS..

so yes i feel HHH deserved to main event / close wm16, not 18 which i was sitting 4th row at SKYDOME and shocked words cant explain the electricity for HULK.. i literally saw a huge sign near me that i remembered seeing on ppv.. but the E had no idea that was gunna happen, and with that much passion, so i prob would have booked hhh v y2j for title the same..

he desevered & delivered at XX (20) along w/ hbk & scumbag addict who was one of the freakin greatest in ring workers of all time def in top 5, & top 3.. but two words : a child ?...

21 him & batista was A. better than cena/JBL, B. had more hype & def felt like the more important match

22 although i did not enjoy it, and i would have changed both main events, for what it was, cena / hhh deserved to be final & i can see since Trips was the man and the only current Heel who had ten + years in the E & was on top, he helped make batista put him over clean, it was like saying ok JBLput u over which placed u at a high cliff so the game will do it next & put u on top of the mountain..

and great decision by Triple H in 2006 cause ten years later, CENA is on top , just watched him on tonight show & he got huge pops & put over WWE besides the new tina fey & leslie knope flick..!..

i will leave it here.. wait must mention WRESTLEMANIA 23 was my favorite WM to be honest taker v batista was awesome & could have main'd / final but HBK v CENA was awesome as well & for title easily deserved & delive.. over delivered in both matches they did, i love 2 main events with the biggest stars of today & yesterday & i wasn;t 100% sure who was gunna win each match which is prob #1 reason why i love those matches & that Event..

hunter earned those spots, and he delivered each one.

i understand if i went too deep, but u dont have to read it all , i enjoyed explaining a topic that i feel strongly about,

its a good topic as the " Main Event of WrestleMania" is such a iconic event in itself, memories, history, legends, immortals, yet some / most of the events - it wasnt the main event that provided the best example of those positive attributes.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Hey guys(and girls).

I was watching Randy Orton Vs Cesaro from Smackdown before Elimination Chamber 2014. Anyhow, images of HHH putting over/losing to Shelton Benjamin passed before me, from April 2004. And then HHH NOT putting over CM Punk in their one and only match at NOC(or was it Vengeance?) 2011. It got me thinking: Obviously, The WWE made a mistake back then since HHH vs Punk would've been better as a first-timer AT Wrestlemania. And so on. And then I thought of how Punk resented the fact that even though he WAS one of the mainevents of Wrestlemania 28 as a defending champion, he never got to close the show..and I wondered if he ever would have gotten to end Wrestlemania, had he been around still...it could've been against anyone...HHH, Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins, even the dreaded and godforsaken Roman Reigns.

But but but, thinking/unconscious memories are rather swift and before even a minute passed, I'm thinking..HHH did actually close Wrestlemanias- 25, 18..and so did Austin, Rock, Taker, among others.

However, I seemed to believe(in my own thoughts), only the biggest matches end Wrestlemania or ought to..including Hogan vs Rock, Rock vs Austin(WM15 and 17)..and even 19, though I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar vs Angle closing the show. But did any HHH match that wasn't the biggest match on that said WM deserve to? If Punk wasn't allowed, or gonna be allowed(which Punk himself said and resented) to close it despite being champ, did HHH?

This isn't specifically an anti-HHH or hate-HHH and all his politics thread. But I really thought of it and clarity on this question still eludes me.

Simply put, what do you guys think? Did he deserve to close the Wrestlemanias he did actually close? You can even specify particular Wrestlemanias, the contexts, the backstage news' from those times if you like. Ciao.

EDIT:-

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.

He should have closed the show against The Rock for WM2000. That Fatal 4 Way was ******ed-ass.

This is a situation in which Rock v Hogan should have gone over, both were MUCH bigger draws than HHH or Jericho at the time. Also, the story of HHH lobbying to not be in the main event is bunk, and is something that he says NOW, but did not say at the time. There are interviews where he states adamantly that the title should go on last.

I'm fine with them closing WM XX, HHH v HBK v Some Other Guy was a good match.

Undecided on 21, I guess it's a fine match to put on last. Maybe put Cena on last, as that felt like a bigger moment? Either way, I don't fault it too much either way.

22 was the right call, given the matches that actually happened. I actually liked the HHH v Cena match for what it was. It underperformed, but that's kinda typical of WM main event HHH matches save for WM XX.

25 HBK v Taker should not have been the last match. It was a midcard match that SUPER over-performed. It was just a match between two legend guys who, status wise and draw wise, were about on par with the guys in the main event. The HHH v Orton match had an amazing build, but super underperformed. It still should have closed the show, regardless of how amazing Taker v Shawn was.

 

[OYDK]

Mania 2000: Really no debate here. The show had really began to revolve around HHH once his program with Steph began, and he was simply on fire. After just coming off of two incredible matches with Foley and with his long-time rivalry with The Rock (who was also on fire) at an all-time high, there was nobody else that should have closed that event. Just a shame they didn't leave it Rock/HHH though.

Mania 18: Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say that Rock/Hogan should have gone on last, but at that point, the title was almost ALWAYS the last match on the card. There was also no indication that the crowd would turn on The Rock and embrace Hogan like they did... I don't think anybody was expecting that, not even the two guys in the ring at the time. After the fact, we can scold WWE for not putting that match on last, but in this position, I probably do the same thing. Primarily because there was a strong possibility that as a wrestling match, Hogan/Rock would have stunk up the building.

Mania 20: HHH was at the peak of his career in 04 and he and HBK were perfect fodder for Benoit. Again, I see no problem with HHH in this scenario. He made more sense than anybody else considering how hot of a face Benoit was.

Mania 21: I really liked the build to this match and at the time, I was fine with it going on last. Back to hindsight being 20/20 again, in 2005 HHH was the top heel and Batista was being groomed as the next face of the company. Nobody was expecting Cena to explode the way he did following his title win against JBL. Plus, I think Batista/HHH was a lot more intriguing for the fans given their history in Evolution. I have no problem with this either.

Mania 22: There wasn't many other options for WWE worth considering. Cena/HHH as the headliner was a no-brainer for this card.

Mania 25: This is a tough argument to make. I would say that the Orton/HHH build heading into the event was just a tad better than the Taker/Michaels build, plus it was for the title. Again, now that we know how both matches turned out, it's easy to say that we would have made a different decision at the time. It's hard to remember that until their match at Mania 25, Michaels/Taker was just another feud. There was no indication that they would make magic.

So all in all, I think HHH was deserving of all of his Mania main events. Looking back at how things have played out, maybe it was a mistake to have HHH headline a few of those Manias, but if you put it into the proper context, it all made logical sense.

 

[Lord_Frish]

For those of you who are saying that Hogan's Mania 18 turn wasn't planned. Both Hall and Nash have said in interviews that it was a planned turn. I believe the original plan was to have the NWO go over Austin and the Rock, or possibly just one of the two. The plans changed on the weekend to the Hogan face turn and Hall losing to Austin. Hall was clean at the time and raising his son, he said the changing of the NWO booking was the moment he started drinking again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EMdazmBM6A skip to the 4 minute mark to hear Nash talk about it

 

[OYDK]

For those of you who are saying that Hogan's Mania 18 turn wasn't planned. Both Hall and Nash have said in interviews that it was a planned turn. I believe the original plan was to have the NWO go over Austin and the Rock, or possibly just one of the two. The plans changed on the weekend to the Hogan face turn and Hall losing to Austin. Hall was clean at the time and raising his son, he said the changing of the NWO booking was the moment he started drinking again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EMdazmBM6A skip to the 4 minute mark to hear Nash talk about it

Do not, under any circumstances listen to what Scott Hall and Kevin Nash say. These guys are notorious for either stretching the truth, or just straight out lying about anything and everything asked to them. Scott Hall also said that he was supposed to go over Austin at Mania 18, but Austin refused to do the job. Do you really believe that?

Personally, judging from the fact that Hogan went out there and completely heeled it up UNTIL he realized the crowd was going nuts for him, showed me that they were sticking with this NWO thing. Remember, the NWO was still going strong at this point and it only really collapsed because of Hogan's turn. I'm not going to say that it's not true at all. I'll just say that from my viewpoint, I saw no indication of Hogan turning until the crowd forced a double turn halfway through the match. For one, Hogan tapped to the Sharpshooter when the ref was down and than low blowed Rock after he went to check on him. He whipped him with a strap. Poked his eyes, etc. would a face do this? Plus he's also come out and said that they changed directions on the fly. But Hogan's also a notorious BS'er too, so who knows.

All I'm saying is that this is one of those scenarios where it's difficult to claim one or the other because there are so many different conflicting accounts out there, even from the ones involved in the damn angle.

 

[Lord_Frish]

Do not, under any circumstances listen to what Scott Hall and Kevin Nash say. These guys are notorious for either stretching the truth, or just straight out lying about anything and everything asked to them. Scott Hall also said that he was supposed to go over Austin at Mania 18, but Austin refused to do the job. Do you really believe that?

Personally, judging from the fact that Hogan went out there and completely heeled it up UNTIL he realized the crowd was going nuts for him, showed me that they were sticking with this NWO thing. Remember, the NWO was still going strong at this point and it only really collapsed because of Hogan's turn. I'm not going to say that it's not true at all. I'll just say that from my viewpoint, I saw no indication of Hogan turning until the crowd forced a double turn halfway through the match. For one, Hogan tapped to the Sharpshooter when the ref was down and than low blowed Rock after he went to check on him. He whipped him with a strap. Poked his eyes, etc. would a face do this? Plus he's also come out and said that they changed directions on the fly. But Hogan's also a notorious BS'er too, so who knows.

All I'm saying is that this is one of those scenarios where it's difficult to claim one or the other because there are so many different conflicting accounts out there, even from the ones involved in the damn angle.

For me, the reasons why I think it was preplanned is that the commentators were hyping Hogan up as an icon. Hogan and the Rock had a staredown the week before on Raw and Hogan was getting more of the cheers then as well. Plus the post match stuff is one hell of an audible to call 10 minutes beforehand. The Rock and Hogan shake hands, Nash and Hall run in and beat down Hogan before Rock does the save.

It could be that all of it was changed during the match, I don't deny that, but from the stories I hear about McMahon and the control he likes to have over everything. I can't help but feel the change was made before Mania started.

Of all the matches listed, this is probably the hardest to call whether it should have been the main event or not compared to HHH's match.

EDIT: I believe that part of the story was that Hogan wanted to see if he could beat The Rock by himself, as in no interference from Nash or Hall. That is a fairly common heel to face turn trope.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

Of the matches in question, 18, 21, 22, and 25 are the ones that really have some case to be made, even if the case is small.

18: This is a case of hindsight being 20/20. Okay, so maybe they all are, but Hogan was getting on in years then, hadn't worked a big match in some time (or any match, really. He worked a 3 on 2 handicap match the RAW before. That's it). This was the first Wrestlemania where the Undisputed Title would be defended, and the Jericho/Triple H angle had a ton of time invested in it. This was also red hot babyface Triple H who had just returned from injury. At the time, it made sense for this to be the main event.

21: You could argue that Cena/JBL could have been the main event instead. Regardless, this was the big payoff for both Batista and Cena's rise to the top of the card. But, Batista was a bit hotter, his build was a bit bigger, and he was on RAW while Cena was on Smackdown. Also, the Royal Rumble winner meant more at the time than it does now. It's like a 70/30 coin flip in Triple H's favor.

22: The only other match on the card to overtake Triple H/Cena would have been Rey Mysterio/Kurt Angle/Randy Orton. Could it have happened? Maybe. It would have been the big payoff to the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero's memory angle, but it would have needed more match time, as that triple threat flew by. Cena was a much bigger deal by this time, and they were putting him over everybody. A clean win over Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania would have needed an Undertaker/Kurt Angle match to possibly bump it down the card.

25: I think your best case is here. HBK/Taker was huge. The build was huge. Granted, the Orton/HHH build was big too, but felt lackluster in comparison. Also, the payoff was pretty weak. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew how good HBK/Taker would be. Nobody knew they'd gas out the entire crowd. All things considered, if Rock/Hogan didn't get to main event, then HBK/Taker is understandably not the main event either. And the other title match of Cena/Edge/Big Show didn't have a shot in hell.

So, I'd have to say that Triple H belonged in each of those scenarios, though sometimes it was because of who he was in the ring with. At 16, it was the storyline, and he was a big part of it. At 18, it was him. At 20, it was both Benoit's moment and another step in the HHH/HBK rivalry. At 21, it was Batista's moment. At 22, Cena's. I guess 25 was his weakest main event slot, but still, it was probably the right thing to do at the time.

I'm glad so many of the posters are saying it, because now I don't have type a huge drawn-out response. The above quote summarizes it better than any other post I've seen or can imagine. Even in the scenarios where "it was because of the other person" he made sense as the foil because he was either: A)top heel in the company or B)a respected legend in the business.

And to defend WrestleMania 25, there was no reason to have Taker/HBK headline the event. At that point, there had only been two matches in the history of WrestleMania deemed good enough to headline WM without a title involved and the last one occurred 14 years before this one. Was Taker/HBK going to be a huge match? Absolutely. But there have plenty of well-built non-title matches with big stars that didn't go on last (Bret/Austin, Hogan/Rock, HBK/Angle just to name a few) and the build to HHH/Orton was great. The heat for the match was scorching, the match itself just didn't deliver. In hindsight, I guess Taker/HBK is the call but for that time, you have to end with the world title match; especially since that world title match had the incredible build that it did.

 

[Checkmate]

And to defend WrestleMania 25, there was no reason to have Taker/HBK headline the event. At that point, there had only been two matches in the history of WrestleMania deemed good enough to headline WM without a title involved and the last one occurred 14 years before this one. Was Taker/HBK going to be a huge match? Absolutely. But there have plenty of well-built non-title matches with big stars that didn't go on last (Bret/Austin, Hogan/Rock, HBK/Angle just to name a few) and the build to HHH/Orton was great. The heat for the match was scorching, the match itself just didn't deliver. In hindsight, I guess Taker/HBK is the call but for that time, you have to end with the world title match; especially since that world title match had the incredible build that it did.

1. Thank you for your (edited out of my quote) compliments.

2. After further thought, it makes even less sense in retrospect to have anything but a title match main event Wrestlemanias 19-29. There were 2 world titles for that stretch of time. Anything being booked above that had to be huge, and it only happened twice, one being HBK/Taker II, where either the streak gets broken or Shawn retires, and Cena/Rock I, where the Rock returns and faces the top guy in the business at the time. Looking at both of those matches, Cena/Batista could have been booked over HBK/Taker at 26, but both Punk/Jericho and Sheamus/Bryan lack any punch to be booked over Cena/Rock.

I know I digressed from the initial point, which was, in order to main event, you'd have to be a bigger match than the title match, which is automatically a big match BECAUSE of the title. And in those years, you'd have to compete with 2 titles matches instead of one. Granted, one title was usually on a lower tier guy, but still, it's difficult to justify booking HBK/Taker I over Orton/HHH with that idea in mind.

 

[The Brain]

I thought of how Punk resented the fact that even though he WAS one of the mainevents of Wrestlemania 28 as a defending champion, he never got to close the show..and I wondered if he ever would have gotten to end Wrestlemania, had he been around still...it could've been against anyone...HHH, Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins, even the dreaded and godforsaken Roman Reigns.

Not going to go off topic but

This isn't specifically an anti-HHH or hate-HHH and all his politics thread.

It kind of seems like one. Maybe without the usual hate but you are questioning his ability and accomplishments because of politics.

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

And he deserved it anyway. He was easily the hottest heel and was probably at his best in 2000.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

This is the only one that I think can really be debated. Obviously Hogan vs. Rock was a dream match. Their name power alone justifies them closing the show, not to mention it was Hogan's first mania in nine years. On the other hand HHH was going for the title and that reaction he got when he returned at MSG showed he deserved that spot.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

So Chris Benoit deserved to close the show but HHH is in doubt?

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

Maybe Cena should have main evented over Batista at 21. That is debatable. However, HHH deserved it way more than JBL. I love JBL in 04/05 but he shouldn't have closed mania over HHH.

As for 22 I strongly disagree. HHH vs. Cena was a great mania main event. I think it could have had a better build but the name power was there, it was the first time the wrestled each other, and I thought it was a great match. I'm surprised to see you call it dreadful but to each his own. You should watch it again if you haven't seen it in a while. Good stuff. That was the clear main event even if Angle vs. Taker took place on that show.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly

You remember correctly but the triple threat match with HHH probably should have closed it. Well, maybe not, but I think that had the stronger build and seemed more like the main event going in. I was surprised when that match came on when it did. I assume the only reason it didn't close the show is because Orton won.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many
believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.

Many people are wrong. Nobody would have thought about Taker vs. HBK closing the show going into it. It was only after they had a great match that wore out the crowd that people decided it should have. Should Steamboat vs. Savage have closed WM3? Of course not. I'm not saying HHH vs. Orton is anywhere near Hogan vs. Andre but it's the same idea. HHH vs. Orton was clearly built as the main event of the show.

So out of all the times HHH closed the show I would say the only one he arguably shouldn't have is WM18 and even that is debatable.

 

[Burritocover]

First off I think generally the main event should be a world title match. I think at 28 CM Punk totally deserved to main even the show but I get it. It wouldn't have made sense for the rock to be anywhere but the main event. But in that year I didn't think anyone was better than Punk and he was champ so he for sure deserved that spot. On rare occasions I think it's ok to close with a non title match like at 26. I'd have been ok with Flair and HBK closing 24 also. As far as Triple H

2000- absolutely he should have been in the main event. He was by far the top heel at the time and was right in the middle of the whole McMahon family feud. It probably should have been just him and the Rock like other people said but I actually like the match a lot and having a 4 way made it seem huge and made sense wit the McMahons

18- he was probably the hottest he'd ever been after coming back from the quad injury. In hogans book he said they were back and forth all week about him turning face that weekend. He said at one point he even flew home to get his Hulkamania gear but ended up not using it. I was there and as soon as I got into town I knew he was gonna turn face. He had a buzz like I've never seen leading up to the show. Toronto was definitely Hogan territory. Anyway as big as that match was I don't think anyone expected it to be as good as it was and kill the crowd for the rest of the show and Triple H and Jericho for sure deserved to go on last.

20- no brainer. The main event was about making Benoit the man and there was no one better than Triple H to make that happen.

21- like other people said I think this was more about Batista headlining. But I also think it had more heat than Cena and JBL and the story went back over a year so it made sense. Also Triple H was a bigger star than JBL.

22- I think this was like 21 in that it was more about Cena than Triple H. Also like 21 Triple H was bigger than anyone in the triple threat.

25- as good as HBK and Taker was its really irrelevant. Triple H and Orton was for the title and had an awesome story behind it. The crowd was blown up by the time they went on and it didn't deliver the way I think it could have, although it's much better on tv than it was live because being there it was almost hard to care anymore after the HBK match. I'm surprised so many people said no one knew HBK and Taker would be so good though. I knew it was gonna be amazing. But anyway, the title match absolutely should have gone on last.

So yeah I think he deserved every main event match he was ever in.

 

[yourdamnluck]

Except for mania 25 where HBK/Taker should have been the main event, he deserved to close the show every single time.
His last two matches vs Taker also more than deserved to close the show.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

WrestleMania 2000, WrestleMania XX, and WrestleMania 21 - yes, he deserved to close all three of those PPVs.

2000 - He was the biggest heel in the business at this time. No one else could have been put in his spot.

XX - The triple threat match was fantastic, and finally tapping to Benoit to end the reign of terror is something that no one thought would actually happen. Unbelievable moment, due to HHH's work as a heel everyone wanted to see lose.

21 - Similar to above.. Batista being as over as he was as a babyface had more to do with HHH being a heel. Plus JBL/Cena had almost no star power at that point.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

WrestleMania 2000, WrestleMania XX, and WrestleMania 21 - yes, he deserved to close all three of those PPVs.

2000 - He was the biggest heel in the business at this time. No one else could have been put in his spot.

XX - The triple threat match was fantastic, and finally tapping to Benoit to end the reign of terror is something that no one thought would actually happen. Unbelievable moment, due to HHH's work as a heel everyone wanted to see lose.

21 - Similar to above.. Batista being as over as he was as a babyface had more to do with HHH being a heel. Plus JBL/Cena had almost no star power at that point.

I agree with this. I'd also say he DESERVED to main event WrestleMania 18 as well, although I still would have gone with Hogan v Rock as the last match. Triple H was in the World Title feud with Jericho as hot as he ever was, coming back with that epic return from injury and winning the Rumble. Plus, it was the first time in history that the UNDISPUTED TITLE was going to be on the line at WM so it was certainly a suitable main event.

However, when you have a match like Hogan v Rock- something we never thought we'd see, that NEEDED to be the main event. It's a once in a lifetime type match, two icons from different eras finally meeting, and that easily had the most buzz about it. Having that earlier on the card was guaranteed to tire the crowd out, and they were burned out by the time HHH v Jericho went on last, and to be honest Trips/Y2J didn't give us a great match anyway.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I think he deserved all his main events, He may be the bosses son in law but he's still had a lot of talent and had loads of great matches over the years, I'm not a huge fan of his he's probably not even in my top 30 favourite ever wrestlers to watch but I can't find anything negative to say about his matches and went through playing so many different character changes over the years and played them all well.

 

[harrythem]

It's not so much if he deserved to be in the main event all those times (and I'd say, everything being equal he did) it's more a case of storyline.

WM16 had the "McMahon in every corner" shite that was dominating so that makes sense and WM21 against Batista was a well paced and structured story.....

However every other time he's been at the top the storyline has been shite. I get adding HBK to WM20 because Benoit didn't have a hope in hell of carrying the mike work for a WM main event but:

WM18 it was really Triple H vs Stephanie with Jericho relegated to dog walker and, let's face it, it was a dreadful end to a dreadful feud that set Jericho back so far

WM22 vs Cena he spent most of the build pointing out all Cena's flaws ("you happen to not be a good wrestler" "I'm not scared of a guy who's big move is pumping up his sneakers") and then had a long ass match which just seemed to be there.

WM25 - Dear god they screwed the pooch with this. Orton had destroyed the McMahons & Steph, Triple H had invaded Ortons house and they end up with a straight singles match (because of that stupid Triple H loses if he uses weapons schtick). This match was begging for an all out war. It had little chance of following Taker vs HBK but, it was just a massive fart.

Considering his wife was head of booking he's really been dealt some serious shite at mania over the years.

 

[The Warlord]

He deserved to close WM16, and it should have been one on one with the Rock for the strap. Big Show vs Foley should have happened in a cage so Mick could pull off a stunt or two to get his Wrestlemania moment. Easy to look back and change things...but this particular WM I remember driving down to the Arrowhead Pond thinking this and talking about it with my buddy. Either way...the Triangle ladder match stole the show. Its been 16 years and Im still in awe from seeing it live.

 

[Piss Bucket]

HHH doesn't deserve anything IMO.

He gets World title wins and everything else literally handed to him because he married into the McMahon Family 14 years ago nearly.

I remember how he consistently buried Owen Hart at Wrestle Mania 14 and then Unforgiven in 1998, he won both matches but were they clean? Nope.

 

[The Brain]

HHH doesn't deserve anything IMO.

He gets World title wins and everything else literally handed to him because he married into the McMahon Family 14 years ago nearly.

I remember how he consistently buried Owen Hart at Wrestle Mania 14 and then Unforgiven in 1998, he won both matches but were they clean? Nope.

This is the kind of argument I find so annoying. Some people talk about HHH as if he was Barry Horowitz and would have had zero success if not for his relationship with Stephanie McMahon. Did HHH benefit professionally from the relationship? Sure he did, but it's not like he wasn't a great wrestler anyway. He still worked hard, he still put on great matches, he still gave a great promo. It's not like he just gave up and became lazy once he married into the family.

As for the feud with Owen, HHH should have gone over. He was a star on the rise and Owen's best days were behind him. If this forum existed in 1998 people would have bitched up a storm if Owen went over the young talented HHH. And I feel I need to remind you that angle took place long before HHH and Stephanie had any kind of relationship.