Did Dolph only get a second world title run because of his first one?

[Robert Roode Fan]

I am starting to think Dolph only won the belt last year because he became world champion the first time. Remember when he was awarded the belt, then edge won it from 7 minutes later.

I think wwe wanted to give him a real run with the gold, so they just gave it to him last year because of their mess up. Really he would have been better off being a great mid carder than a main eventer.

It is better to succeed as a mid carder than a main eventer. I am glad they got rid of two titles, makes guys work in the mid card instead of getting a title rushed on them.

 

[Headman]

I doubt one thing had anything to do with the other. I believe the WWE did it for shock value the first time around. And the second reign was a miscalculation. The title was a midcard belt, so there was no harm in putting it on a heel Ziggler. But his pop at the post Mania RAW mislead the powers that be into thinking Ziggler was more over than he actually was. They put the belt back on Del Rio to execute the double turn with the expectation that Ziggler would take off. He didn't. That's why I laugh every time somebody says the Wrestlemania and post Mania RAW crowds are "great crowds".

 

[Aquaman6686]

Dolph Ziggler got the title last year because he was THE most over guy on the roster, without a shadow of a doubt. He was on his way to becoming the top guy in the company when he was derailed by that concussion, which halted his momentum. I believe Ziggler can still come back from it and be one of the top stars in WWE. He has every tool to succeed, if only the powers that be would get behind him.

 

[Merkin353]

Dolph Ziggler got the title last year because he was THE most over guy on the roster, without a shadow of a doubt. He was on his way to becoming the top guy in the company when he was derailed by that concussion, which halted his momentum. I believe Ziggler can still come back from it and be one of the top stars in WWE. He has every tool to succeed, if only the powers that be would get behind him.

THE most over guy on the roster??? Stupidity really should be a crime. The fact that Del Rio or Ziggler ever held a title of that caliber is beyond me. I swear I think the only reason Ziggler ever got cheered in the first place was because he told fans he stole the show & they assume he did. Name a Ziggler match or move or moment that is up to par with Rock V Austin, Cena V Punk, Taker V HBK? He simple doesn't have one.

Bottom line is this, Ziggler got the belt because they threw that belt around at that time. He is a midcard jobber at best & doesn't even deserve to be a top guy in TNA.

 

[OYDK]

Do you really think WWE would put the title on a guy just because he didn't get a real title run? Look at Kane, he won the title from Austin at KOTR, lost it back to him the next night on Raw and din't win a World title again for a decade. WWE does nothing if they don't believe it will make them money, thye would not screw around with the WHC.

The fact is, he wasn't ready when he won his first title but WWE obviously thought he was when he cashed in and they wanted to test if he could be a legitimate main event player. Did he succeed? Probably not in their eyes, but he's getting a mini push again so we'll see what comes out of it.

 

[Aquaman6686]

THE most over guy on the roster??? Stupidity really should be a crime. The fact that Del Rio or Ziggler ever held a title of that caliber is beyond me. I swear I think the only reason Ziggler ever got cheered in the first place was because he told fans he stole the show & they assume he did. Name a Ziggler match or move or moment that is up to par with Rock V Austin, Cena V Punk, Taker V HBK? He simple doesn't have one.

Bottom line is this, Ziggler got the belt because they threw that belt around at that time. He is a midcard jobber at best & doesn't even deserve to be a top guy in TNA.

Ziggler has only been given one huge moment in his career thus far, and that was the night he cashed in and won the title, which got easily the biggest crowd reaction of the last 15 years. Give Ziggler feuds with main event talent and you will see huge moments out of Dolph Ziggler. It's hard to have a history-making moment when the biggest name they'll let him feud with is Big E Useless.

 

[No Count Pup]

You didn't need to be over to be WHC. It wasn't like the WWE Title. Del Rio won the WHC in WWE's attempt to get his turn over. It didn't work. Swagger won the title out of the blue to get fans talking, and the fans shrugged their shoulders. Dolph Ziggler became champion for a few minutes to give the fans a hot finish in Green Bay. His second reign was used to excite a hot crowd at the same hour as the NCAA Championship tip-off. Ziggler benefited twice from luck and timing. As we have learned since 2012, MITB doesn't guarantee a title run. Ziggler could have jobbed like Sandow or fought to a no-decision like Cena. WWE was very generous to the Dolph Ziggler character.

I like Ziggler. But I feel that the "B-plus" promo that Triple H used on Daniel Bryan was directed to other wrestlers that are talented but don't have "it". They need to either get "it" or be satisfied with the midcard. Ziggler had his world title moments. He may have already over achieved. But if he wants to be a headliner, he needs to convince WWE brass that he is on par with John Cena, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan, Batista, CM Punk, and Brock Lesnar. The problem is, Ziggler isn't even on the same page as Triple H, Sheamus, Bray Wyatt, Cesaro, or the Shield! He should be overjoyed that in the history of wrestling, his accolade as world champion is etched in stone. If he never wins one again, it's okay.

Note: I'll bet Ted DiBiase wishes he BS "reign" was recognized the same way Ziggler's BS "reign" was.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

But his pop at the post Mania RAW mislead the powers that be into thinking Ziggler was more over than he actually was. They put the belt back on Del Rio to execute the double turn with the expectation that Ziggler would take off. He didn't.

This is just total malarkey. Every time a guy who is over is de-pushed, lots of people on the internet just start making up reasons as to why his push failed, and completely ignoring the fact that it didn't fail, it was just STOPPED.

Alex Riley.
Zack Ryder.
Dolph Ziggler.
The Miz.
John Morrison.
Jack Swagger.
Ryback.

Etc, etc. None of these guys FAILED. They were all over when they were being pushed. They all had the crowd eating out of their hands, until the moment their pushes were just halted.

Ryback didn't "fail" as a top face. The crowd was behind him until he lost at Mania, turned heel the next night, pulled a 180° in character, and jobbed for the next few months. It was bullshit.

Same goes for Dolph Ziggler. He was pushed as Mr. Money in the Bank because he was the most impressive heel on the show. He had 2 world title shots at Royal Rumble back-to-back because he was great at what he does. He main evented TLC with John Cena and the audience response was amazing. I'm not saying Dolph had HBK-levels of superstardom, but he was definitely a great main eventer when paired with other main eventers. A solid (and consistent!) main event run would have catapulted him to where he needed to be.

And then his push just STOPPED. He didn't "fail". He was just pushed down the card. The report was that he had attitude problems and spoke too candidly on interviews. We'll never know for sure. But to say he just failed and his push was a miscalculation is b.s. We'll never know how it would've went because WWE pulled the plug while it was still going strong.

 

[Caldwell205]

That was just a bad run period. Im not sure the bad booking of him during his reign would have been any better even if he had not been injured.

 

[GoatfaceKiller]

Afraid I'm gonna have to agree with Feedback on this one. The Ziggler (and many others) de-push is/was/always will be complete and total bullshit. How do you know a guy can succeed with an accolade if you never give him a full opportunity (on the mic and in the ring) to do so? If you're gonna pass the ball to somebody, let them run with it for a while before forcing them to pass it back. WWE booking has been "ok" the past couple months...but as far as the past few years overall goes...they should be ashamed of themselves in a big way.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

To all those who say that Ziggler never had moments like the Rock vs Austin and stuff like those are really stupid. Don't be upset by that, but how are you gonna create moments when they pair you with Alberto Del Rio, or they have you face Punk in a filler feud at the Royal Rumble? Ziggler was never given a solid chance to show his main event potential. He was so over at some point. Oh and hey, the only time he had a main event, against Cena, the entire place was cheering Ziggler and they put on an amazing match.
WWE is to blame for Ziggler's failure and, partially, his concussion. Ziggler came back, and had a good match in front of an amazing crowd. The people wanted to see him. Then, the WWE just took the WHC off him, gave it to Del Rio, whom no one cares for, and made Ziggler job to him, and then to Lang.. eerhm Big E and then every further down the jobber status. If you think this is Ziggler's fault, then you have mental problems.

Sure, he bad mouthed WWE in an interview, so he was buried. Again, same thing. WWE to blame.

 

[Rjw2688]

Saying Ziggler wasn't over is ridiculous. I attended the Night of Champions PPV in Boston in 2012 and for the most of the night the crowd was kind of dead. However their was one superstar and one superstar only who was getting crowd reactions that night and that was Ziggler. During his match against Orton people were chanting lets go Ziggler the whole match (while he was heel). During the Sheamus WHC match people were chanting we want Ziggler the whole match. Everyone wanted Dolph to cash in that night and were disappointed it didn't happen. Even during the Cena-Punk match we want Ziggler chants were being made. Guy was over and I still think he is over, he still gets his pops.

 

[MCMG]

His first title reign was odd. It was short and almost unfair on him. That being said, he and Edge had a great match at the Royal Rumble.

Ziggler deserved his chance. His mid-card runs were of a very high quality. Him and Vickie worked as a duo and he was putting on entertaining matches even when he wasn't given a lot of time. TV or PPV he always did well which I feel is important. MITB was a logical step and Ziggler should have become one of the top guys. He has the in-ring talent. He has had some great matches with guys like Rey, Kofi, Orton, Edge, Punk, Cena, Sheamus and Del Rio. He can definitely wrestle and that becomes clear when he gets more than 5 minutes.

On the mic, he isn't the best. His mic-skills are improving but he could have got away with it. The reaction when he won the belt was immense. People wanted to see him succeed and his run was cut short. I personally think Dolph should have been champ for longer (or given another run) but that isn't the point. He is a very talented wrestled and earned his second world title.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Really he would have been better off being a great mid carder than a main eventer.

That was true back then....and still is now.

I think they gave him the second title for the same reason he got the first one: Vince McMahon sees the need to create the stars of tomorrow and, for reasons of his own, decided that Dolph Ziggler was gonna be one of them .....come hell or high water. I got the feeling Vince told his creative people: "The fans will get behind who we tell them to get behind" and then proceeded to push the living hell out of Dolph, giving him airtime on every single Raw and Smackdown for a very long time.

Eventually, Vince appeared to change his mind and Dolph dropped back down to the mid-card. Just when you think his main event days are over, though, we're now seeing him win a few matches in a row.....so who knows what Vince has in mind this time?

I think Dolph Ziggler belongs on the mid-card; it's a very good place to earn a living......although I do find myself wondering what Dolph himself thinks of his career path to this point.

 

[MC_Live]

Any of y'all saying Dolph isn't over and he isn't a main eventer need to go to the otolaryngologist (fancy word for ear doctor) as well as the optometrist. The crowds are going pretty crazy for him. I was at Raw in Brooklyn when he was in the fatal four way, and that match was all Ziggler chants. WWE has never given him a proper chance to shine. If you win a title, get a concussion two weeks later, only make pre-recorded videos from home while you're out instead of actually making in person promos, and then lose the belt to Alberto Del not over (and he's not over due to the common lack of care crowds have given him the entire time he's been around) then yeah, you're going to look like crap. And seriously, to compare Ziggler to Rock vs. Austin, Cena vs. Punk, and Taker vs. Shawn you have got to really rethink what you say? How can you knock a guy for not having a big moment like the ones you compare him to, when you compare him to maybe the three biggest matches of this millennium that included 6 of the biggest stars of the millennium. Of course Dolph won't have a moment like that, because WWE hasn't given him the chance to do so. Besides, how long were all those guys around before they got those moments? Dolph is now about 10 years into his career, 5 and a half years as Dolph Ziggler. We've only seen him scratch the surface. He has all the tools, and when he's given the chance, he will shine as bright as anyone. One thing never lies, and that's crowd reaction. As long as WWE doesn't edit it out, Dolph gets crowd reactions. And as proven by Daniel Bryan last Sunday night, crowd favorites can be the biggest and best stars in the industry when the company gives them the chance. Just wait.

 

[Headman]

This is just total malarkey. Every time a guy who is over is de-pushed, lots of people on the internet just start making up reasons as to why his push failed, and completely ignoring the fact that it didn't fail, it was just STOPPED.

Alex Riley.
Zack Ryder.
Dolph Ziggler.
The Miz.
John Morrison.
Jack Swagger.
Ryback.

Etc, etc. None of these guys FAILED. They were all over when they were being pushed. They all had the crowd eating out of their hands, until the moment their pushes were just halted.

Ryback didn't "fail" as a top face. The crowd was behind him until he lost at Mania, turned heel the next night, pulled a 180° in character, and jobbed for the next few months. It was bullshit.

Same goes for Dolph Ziggler. He was pushed as Mr. Money in the Bank because he was the most impressive heel on the show. He had 2 world title shots at Royal Rumble back-to-back because he was great at what he does. He main evented TLC with John Cena and the audience response was amazing. I'm not saying Dolph had HBK-levels of superstardom, but he was definitely a great main eventer when paired with other main eventers. A solid (and consistent!) main event run would have catapulted him to where he needed to be.

And then his push just STOPPED. He didn't "fail". He was just pushed down the card. The report was that he had attitude problems and spoke too candidly on interviews. We'll never know for sure. But to say he just failed and his push was a miscalculation is b.s. We'll never know how it would've went because WWE pulled the plug while it was still going strong.

The pushes stopped because the reactions stopped. Alex Riley had nothing going on past his feud with the Miz. Honestly, one of the biggest question marks I've ever had is why in the hell were people going so crazy for such a vanilla scrub? Ryback's push ended because of brain dead booking. But even as a face he was getting mixed reactions. The Goldberg chants killed Ryback as a face. And Ryback as a heel served his purpose in a matter of months and was left with no where else to go. The Miz? You mean the guy who got overshadowed at Wrestlemania 27? Edge wouldn't have let himself be overshadowed. CM Punk wouldn't have allowed that either. Miz just couldn't hold his own so he was irrelevant in a match that he won. Zach Ryder was a one trick pony / comedy jobber. And during the biggest push he ever got all the people complained that he was being misused. How else do you use a comedy jobber? John Morrison sucked. He looked like a heel, wrestled like a face and had a reputation for being a bitch in real life. Jack Swagger got every chance to do something with his reign. He sucked so his push ended. Then he got a second chance with a brand new mouth piece. Well he screwed that up in a hurry didn't he? As for Ziggler, he was never that over. His promos are awful. He got hot for a minute while AJ was in his corner but that's because she's a REAL heel. The concussions were the final nail in the coffin, and you can disagree all you want but everyone on your list failed to get over.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Dolph only getting another World Championship run due to the odd situation concerning his first one is a safe assumption. He deserved to get a real shot at a title run, so they gave him one. He didn't really deliver. That's not something I hold against Ziggler, I'm still a fan of his. I just think he isn't necessarily World Championship material. He never really was. You need more than great in-ring ability and ranting in promos about how you're wanting to steal the show. His promo skills were never great and his matches rarely seemed like that big of a deal. He got his chance and I believe it will be his last. There's always the midcard belts. He can still be "The Showoff" as Intercontinental Champion.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Dolph only getting another World Championship run due to the odd situation concerning his first one is a safe assumption. He deserved to get a real shot at a title run, so they gave him one. He didn't really deliver. That's not something I hold against Ziggler, I'm still a fan of his. I just think he isn't necessarily World Championship material. He never really was. You need more than great in-ring ability and ranting in promos about how you're wanting to steal the show. His promo skills were never great and his matches rarely seemed like that big of a deal. He got his chance and I believe it will be his last. There's always the midcard belts. He can still be "The Showoff" as Intercontinental Champion.

A bunch of hooey. He delivered. He just got a concussion right after becoming champ. And when he came back, he immediately dropped the title. And the day he lost the title was at Money in the Ban when he turned face.

You can't tell me he failed to deliver when he wasn't even there for his short reign and then dropped the title before he turned face. He wasn't given a proper main event run for you to say he delivered. His last big match where they trusted him was that double-turn and both he and Del Rio executed it flawlessly.