David Sammartino. What happened?

[@smarkmouth]

I recently watched the inaugural Wrestlemania for the first time in a long while. Of course, the headline was the tag team match of Mr. T/Hogan vs Piper/Orndoff. Off the top of my head, I don't think any other matches from the event are celebrated as that one is, but I found myself fascinated watching the fourth match. Brutus "Not yet the Barber" Beefcake w/John Valliant versus David Sammartino w/Bruno.

If you haven't watched this match, I suggest you do. I can't find it on youtube. Now, I'm just shy of 28, so I didn't see the "Rock & Wrestling" era live. Reading his story on wikipedia, it doesn't paint a great picture. It makes him seem like a whiner, quitting whenever he didn't get his way (uh-oh, I've built a bridge to another topic). It's a shame, because as said, the match with Beefcake is quite good, and I would have liked to see more old David Sammartino matches.

Does anyone have any context to offer regarding the son of Bruno Sammartino?

 

[klunderbunker]

David just wasn't very good. The Beefcake match is passable at best, but the only reason it's on Wrestlemania is Bruno appeared at the Garden again. Vince kept David around so he could get a few more appearances out of his dad and get some nostalgia ticket sales. It's happened before and it'll happen again with some other legend who wants to get into wrestling. There really isn't much more to it than that.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

KB is pretty much on the nail... I seem to remember Bret Hart was originally due to face Beefcake but Bruno wouldn't appear if David didn't get the spot...it was the beginning of that period.

There have always been 3 types of 2nd gen stars... the ones who had innate talent and those who got where they are cos of the name... Orton, The Rock, Bret, Owen and the like did via the first... guys like David Flair, The latter Von Erich Boys, Erik Watts and of course David Sammartino are the second type.

There is a 3rd type, somewhere in the middle where they actually got into the business while their pops was active or recently out of the ring or being in a position of power but talented enough that it doesn't really matter. Guys like Greg Valentine and Ted DiBiase and Kerry Von Erich had talent, but got their breaks arguably due to their father's tragedies (Greg's dad lost his career in the Flair plane crash and "Iron Mike" DiBiase died in a WWWF ring) so they had some "sympathy" and goodwill that got them further than they might have earlier in their careers. Later on the talent they had meant they got to where they should have been and people didn't think it was for any other reason...but I am sure Ted Sr. got a lot of leeway from Vince Sr and thus Jr. off the back of his dad being a "casualty" of the promotion in that late 70's North American Title run he had.

Sammartino didn't ever have that, he just had Bruno, who was already leery of Vince Jr. and how he was doing things and a massive name to uphold. Guys like that often would have benefitted more from a different name/gimmick. Look at Shane McMahon... he reffed as Shane Stevens... if he could have kept the McMahon connection secret, say wrestled in the Attitude era but under a mask, he was a top level talent... it was the name that held him back.

In David's case he was never worthy of the push but got it based on Vince trying to keep Bruno on board, once that failed there was no more need for his son.

Looking back I'd much rather have seen Bret Hart get a shot at Mania 1 against Beefcake, but to draw those old school fans it needed Bruno, they had to make up a large number of those buyers of the PPV and in the crowd at the time.

 

[@smarkmouth]

Thanks for the info, guys. I assumed nostalgia was a factor, and I should have figured McMahon/Sammartino heat was a factor.

I knew my perspective of him would be skewed, as I only watched the one match which, KB, I have to respectfully disagree. I'm not saying they tore the roof off of the garden (at least not until Bruno got physically involved), but I found it to be a nice technical match up.

 

[Bruno's Sanctimony]

A serious push for David was promised to Bruno for getting involved in that WM match and, thereafter, putting the tights back on for a tag team run around the circuit.
But that push never really materialized, contributing to Bruno's heat with E and McMahon.
They had their tag bouts with Valiant & Beefcake, then David was sent back down the card while Bruno was consistently asked to be involved in the upper card.
David didn't help his own case, either....by his lousy attitude, by his fight with fans at arenas and, finally, with his incident at the Spectrum with Ron Shaw where he pulled a screwjob finish...on himself...against the script.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

David just wasn't very good. The Beefcake match is passable at best, but the only reason it's on Wrestlemania is Bruno appeared at the Garden again. Vince kept David around so he could get a few more appearances out of his dad and get some nostalgia ticket sales. It's happened before and it'll happen again with some other legend who wants to get into wrestling. There really isn't much more to it than that.

David Sammartino falls into the same category as Greg Gagne, Scott Putski, and Ted Dibiase, Jr.... they simply didn't have the same stuff as their dad and it was nearly impossible for them to have a solid career while being compared to their fathers, who were trailblazers and good hands in the ring.

But like KB said, if giving one's son a chance to be something to make more money down the road... then why not right?

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

David Sammartino falls into the same category as Greg Gagne, Scott Putski, and Ted Dibiase, Jr.... they simply didn't have the same stuff as their dad and it was nearly impossible for them to have a solid career while being compared to their fathers, who were trailblazers and good hands in the ring.

But like KB said, if giving one's son a chance to be something to make more money down the road... then why not right?

Yup, it's not like the WWF was Sammartino's only stop in his career. He went over to the AWA after he left WWF, but did little of interest. I wouldn't say he was living off his Dad's name intentionally, but that was the net effect. People were only interested in David as long as Bruno came along as part of the package.

The guy who nearly fell into this same trap was Dustin Rhodes. Rhodes was talented but got little respect unless he was paired with Dusty or later, Barry Windham, as a sort of proxy for Dusty. The difference was that Rhodes had obvious talent and his charisma wasn't really shown until he really went outside the box as Goldust. I think Gagne might've been in this same group...not without ability, lacked charisma, and with a radical change maybe could've worked in the NWA. But why fly the nest when Dad is the promoter?

 

[thebarber]

Vince only gave David a job and push to try and get Bruno to have one final run in the WWF. Bruno had ideas of how his run should go, where Vince wanted him putting talent over, which Bruno wasnt up for. David was hopeless in the ring and only got a gig because of his surname. Ironically, after David quit the Federation, Bruno stuck around for a good 12 months on commentary, appeared at Mania 2 and had house show runs against Savage and Piper

 

[justtxyank]

Lots of bad information going on around here.

First, David Sammartino had talent. He just wasn't as good as Bruno and the problem with being second generation to a legend is that it will never matter how good you are unless you are better. No one will ever call a match with a Flair kid in it where they don't say or you don't think about Ric.

It's why it can help to change the name of some of the 2nd generation guys.

Back then, 2nd gen guys really didn't even get a fair shake. The last name was used to draw nostalgia and the guy wasn't even given a shot to stake out his own place most of the time.

On David in particular, he got a lot of opportunities, including with the UWF (Herb version) and even late 90s WCW as a cruiserweight.

I also take exception to the Greg Gagne not talented narrative. It's just false.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

KB is pretty much on the nail... I seem to remember Bret Hart was originally due to face Beefcake but Bruno wouldn't appear if David didn't get the spot...it was the beginning of that period.

There have always been 3 types of 2nd gen stars... the ones who had innate talent and those who got where they are cos of the name... Orton, The Rock, Bret, Owen and the like did via the first... guys like David Flair, The latter Von Erich Boys, Erik Watts and of course David Sammartino are the second type.

There is a 3rd type, somewhere in the middle where they actually got into the business while their pops was active or recently out of the ring or being in a position of power but talented enough that it doesn't really matter. Guys like Greg Valentine and Ted DiBiase and Kerry Von Erich had talent, but got their breaks arguably due to their father's tragedies (Greg's dad lost his career in the Flair plane crash and "Iron Mike" DiBiase died in a WWWF ring) so they had some "sympathy" and goodwill that got them further than they might have earlier in their careers. Later on the talent they had meant they got to where they should have been and people didn't think it was for any other reason...but I am sure Ted Sr. got a lot of leeway from Vince Sr and thus Jr. off the back of his dad being a "casualty" of the promotion in that late 70's North American Title run he had.

Sammartino didn't ever have that, he just had Bruno, who was already leery of Vince Jr. and how he was doing things and a massive name to uphold. Guys like that often would have benefitted more from a different name/gimmick. Look at Shane McMahon... he reffed as Shane Stevens... if he could have kept the McMahon connection secret, say wrestled in the Attitude era but under a mask, he was a top level talent... it was the name that held him back.

In David's case he was never worthy of the push but got it based on Vince trying to keep Bruno on board, once that failed there was no more need for his son.

Looking back I'd much rather have seen Bret Hart get a shot at Mania 1 against Beefcake, but to draw those old school fans it needed Bruno, they had to make up a large number of those buyers of the PPV and in the crowd at the time.

Another one from that era who comes to mind is Sam Houston. He was a decent mid-card performer. Had the youth and energy, the look, but was saddled with a generic in-ring character. He was another in the long line of cowboys from that era.
Sam Houston had the lineage - half-brother of Jake the Snake, and son of Grizzly Smith. I remember watching him and thinking he was talented, yet lacked something. Probably it was due to being overshadowed by the giants like Hogan, Andre the Giant, Bundy, John Studd, etc. As such, he rarely had any promos to speak of, so he was more or less enhancement talent to be fed to the giants by the end of it.
If I'm not mistaken, his career fizzled out almost as fast as it started, due to the same sort of demons that his half-brother succumbed to. I think he fits in somewhere between the "Innate Talent" 2nd generation wrestlers, and those who were given spots only because of their name. The Rock n' Wrestling era actually featured a lot of mid-card talent, but they were hardly noticeable because of the big names of the day.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I also take exception to the Greg Gagne not talented narrative. It's just false.

I think Jim Brunzell did a lot to carry their team during the 70s and early 80s, and Verne Gagne did the rest. He was about as vanilla as you get.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I like that we've touched on a few different second gen guys here. Here's what I think about them:

David Sammartino - He's a guy that would have been a lot better off if he'd tried making a name for himself first outside of the WWF. I know he had been working in places for a few years before the WWF in 1985, but he wasn't established beyond being Bruno's kid... and with nothing but that label to go with, he was never going to be anything else once Bruno became part of the act. He was decent in the ring, but he never did anything that stood out. And he had a bad attitude. His most memorable runs were in the WWF and later in the UWF... and both of those had his dad alongside him. That says something right there.

Sam Houston - Heh, that is a name I haven't thought of in years. He was a good worker, but his biggest problem was his appearance. The guy was rail thin. It was the steroid era of the WWF, and a guy with Houston's look never stood a chance.

Greg Gagne - I echo the sentiment that Gagne was as vanilla as they got, and that his greatest success (The High Flyers), was due in large part, to the excellent work of Jim Brunzell (whom the WWF never used properly). I think it says a lot that even near the end, when the AWA had very little talent it could count on, his dad still wouldn't put the title on Greg... instead creating that TV title for him to hold instead. Without his dad... he's probably mid-card at best to enhancement talent, with a career that only lasts maybe half as long as it did. He wasn't George Gulas bad, but he wasn't anything special.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I'll say one other thing about Sammartino - the dude got monstrously 'roid ripped a few years later. Around WrestleMania, he was a short, somewhat pudgy kid. By about 1990 or so, he had added a huge amount of muscle and was probably < 10% body fat. So physique wise, he radically changed, but didn't really get him anywhere.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Yeah I remember that. It was such a drastic change he didn't even look like the same guy.

Only thing it ever did for him though was create a slight curiosity around him... "hey is that Bruno's kid? Nah!!!"

 

[FromGlasgow]

I always thought he was ok and even a little underated, Theres been worse in the WWE over the years.
maybe his style and look was too much like his father to the point where he could never live up to it.

 

[justtxyank]

Greg Gagne - I echo the sentiment that Gagne was as vanilla as they got, and that his greatest success (The High Flyers), was due in large part, to the excellent work of Jim Brunzell (whom the WWF never used properly). I think it says a lot that even near the end, when the AWA had very little talent it could count on, his dad still wouldn't put the title on Greg... instead creating that TV title for him to hold instead. Without his dad... he's probably mid-card at best to enhancement talent, with a career that only lasts maybe half as long as it did. He wasn't George Gulas bad, but he wasn't anything special.

Greg actually had control of the book at the end and chose not to put the title on himself. Greg could have had the title any time he wanted to, and in fact, was considered the favorite to win the battle royal for the gold towards the end.

He was certainly vanilla, no denying that, but he wasn't bad. He was just small. David had the same problem. Small.

 

[rmp0012002]

David just wasn't his father and who is. He would have been better off not using the Sammartino name and building up his own credentials. He was trying to ride the coat tails of his father and Bruno even came out of retirement to help him but he just didn't get the push he wanted and essentially blames his father. As far as I know they have a strained relationship and don't talk to this day. David was also in Georgia and got a small push not to the upper card but seemed like his poor attitude preceded him.
Greg came out of his fathers school so he knew how to wrestle but didn't have the size or charisma to advance. Greg was also wrestling in a different era. He did try hard to help the company survive because he had a good wrestling mind but Verne was old school and never changed with times.