Dana White likens Frank Mir to the Grinch

[ITurnGirlsGay]

A quote from Dana to ESPN after his fight at UFC 119 with Mirko Cro Cop.

I have no clue about Frank. To talk the stuff he does, and then fight like he fought, that's a little frustrating. Once "Cro Cop" stuffed his takedown attempt, his heart fell out on the floor. If Frank Mir can't bully you, his heart shrinks to the size of the Grinch's. If he can't take you down, his heart shrinks to the size of a pea.

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/9/27/1715108/ufc-quick-quote-dana-white-likens-frank-mir-to-the-grinch

A really dick thing to say, in my opinion. Frank has 2 fucking decisions in 19 professional fights. I'd hardly say that Frank doesn't give it his all. He either gets knocked out, or wins via submission or KO. 2 decisions does not show lack of heart by a fighter.

Dana says a lot of things and, while I (and everyone else), realize that was a very lame fight prior to Mir's KO, the fact remains that Mir only has 2 decisions. Cro Cop is a dangerous striker. Mir fought his fight (as boring as that may be), and when the opportunity opened itself up, he delivered an amazing KO.

Boring fight? Yes. Worth the finish? Eh...maybe, Mir lacks heart? Not by a long shot.

 

[Via Armbar]

I think you are misunderstanding what White is saying ITTG. He never said Mir's heart shrink due to Mir fighting boring or fighting to a decision. Clearly that would be a dumb statement since Mir has never been a ''win by points'' kind of fighter. I believe that he was referring to the fact that when something doesn't go Mir's way immediately, he checks out of the fight. Not to say he gives up, but he doesn't fight at the level he could/should after he hits a roadblock.

You can look at a lot of his fights and see that. Watch the fight with Vera, Carwin and Mirko. He seems to lose a lot of confidence when either his offense isn't working or he gets hit. Once he realized that Cro Cop has excellent take down defense and he wasn't going to get him down, he was like a deer in headlights who had no idea what to do next or at least didn't do it. It was clear by the fact that he got Mirko to the fence and did little to nothing there. Mirko has never had a killer clinch, just average, but Mir didn't look for anything when he had Mirko against the fence.

Honestly I think White was spot on with his statement. Though I dislike Mir when he opens his mouth, I do admire his drive and determination. I don't question his heart at all, I question his ability to keep his head in it when things don't go his way. There are many fighters that fight that way, Belfort being one of them and I've always been a Phenom fan. It's just a problem some fighters have.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I think you are misunderstanding what White is saying ITTG. He never said Mir's heart shrink due to Mir fighting boring or fighting to a decision. Clearly that would be a dumb statement since Mir has never been a ''win by points'' kind of fighter. I believe that he was referring to the fact that when something doesn't go Mir's way immediately, he checks out of the fight. Not to say he gives up, but he doesn't fight at the level he could/should after he hits a roadblock.

You can look at a lot of his fights and see that. Watch the fight with Vera, Carwin and Mirko. He seems to lose a lot of confidence when either his offense isn't working or he gets hit. Once he realized that Cro Cop has excellent take down defense and he wasn't going to get him down, he was like a deer in headlights who had no idea what to do next or at least didn't do it. It was clear by the fact that he got Mirko to the fence and did little to nothing there. Mirko has never had a killer clinch, just average, but Mir didn't look for anything when he had Mirko against the fence.

Honestly I think White was spot on with his statement. Though I dislike Mir when he opens his mouth, I do admire his drive and determination. I don't question his heart at all, I question his ability to keep his head in it when things don't go his way. There are many fighters that fight that way, Belfort being one of them and I've always been a Phenom fan. It's just a problem some fighters have.

I can see what you are saying, but I've never seen Dana as a "read between the lines" kind of guy. If you get what I'm saying.

I clearly think that Dana was implying (as most people probably thought), that there was a lack of heart in that fight. If you look at Dana's track record for fights like these, he generally blasts the fighters for lack of action and "playing it safe."

I do appreciate where you're coming from, thought. It's insight I hadn't previously thought about, however, I'm thinking that you've got to be in the minority in believing THAT was what he meant.

No disrespect intended. Dana just doesn't strike me as a metaphorical kind of man, but your insight was actually something I'm gonna think about.

I should say that this was something that's been discussed ad nauseum on another thread I belong to and nobody has brought this up. So, believe me when I say that it's interesting and insightful.

I still maintain, though, that I'm not too sure that this is what Dana was TRYING to imply.

 

[Via Armbar]

No, Dana is definitely NOT a read between the lines kind of guy at all. He says exactly what he thinks, whether it's going to get him heat or not. What he is though, is a guy who says things in a misdirecting kind of way. He doesn't do it on purpose, he just has a habit of not saying things the way he intends them to be understood.

The main reason why I believe he only means that Mir's heart doesn't stay strong and stick to gameplans is because he has never accused Mir of this in the past. He has stated though, as had fighter Frank has fought, that once he realizes things aren't going his way he shrivels up. I don't think Dana is saying at all that Mir has a problem with having his heart in the fight game, or a problem with drive and desire. Just sticking to the gameplan and place that his heart and determination had gotten him to in the first place.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Surely, he can't get every fighter to the ground, though. Let's be real, Cro Cop has only been submitted twice in his career. Once was an eye injury. As a veteran of an eye injury, I would have tapped out, too. They are VERY serious and not worth the paycheck of winning.

Guy has seen a picture of my injury and it was BEYOND serious.

Sometimes, you have to grind out a win. Fight the good fight and take your openings when you see them. Even your boy couldn't submit Cro Cop. What Frank fought was a war of attrition. Granted it was boring, but I wouldn't leap in there with Cro Cop and engage knowing what he was capable of doing.

Nor would I try to take him down knowing that I had a low percentage chance of submitting him and people saying the same thing about the fight.

Fans bitch about LnP and Wall and Stall. Either way, they're generally unhappy. Mir gave a highlight reel KO to Cro Cop. Once he saw the opening he jumped all over it like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat.

The presumption in your comment is that Dana KNEW what Mir's gameplan was. I highly doubt he did. About the only time Mir hasn't shown evolution as a fighter has been against Carwin and Lesnar.

He's knocked out/down Kongo, Cro Cop and Nog. Nog had never been finished before that.

 

[Via Armbar]

Surely, he can't get every fighter to the ground, though. Let's be real, Cro Cop has only been submitted twice in his career. Once was an eye injury. As a veteran of an eye injury, I would have tapped out, too. They are VERY serious and not worth the paycheck of winning.

Agreed here. If the eye injury he sustained would have only led to more serious, permanent damage then it was a good call. I don't think this has anything to do with Mir's heart or lack thereof.

Sometimes, you have to grind out a win. Fight the good fight and take your openings when you see them. Even your boy couldn't submit Cro Cop. What Frank fought was a war of attrition. Granted it was boring, but I wouldn't leap in there with Cro Cop and engage knowing what he was capable of doing.

First off, I cannot stand when people think it's okay for one fighter to fight for a decision and not another. I'm not saying you are a culprit of this, just pointing out that mma fans can be extremely hypocritical at times with this kind of stuff. Dunham had fought for a finish through out his fight with Sherk. Mir did not. Neither did Mirko, I'm not showing any favoritism. I know the difference between aggressively fighting for a decision (see Sonnen/Silva) and grinding it out because you have nothing to give offensively. Mir had completed step one: Get Cro Cop against the cage. He did very little offensively once they were there. He only utilized his knees in the first when he could have used them a lot more. He was fighting more to not get hit then to win. Anytime a fighter fights like that it should be looked down upon.

Nor would I try to take him down knowing that I had a low percentage chance of submitting him and people saying the same thing about the fight.

Low percentage? His chances at submitting Mirko were just as good if not better than him knocking him out. I don't mean to take anything away from Mir, but that knockout could be contributed more to a mistake by Mirko rather than excellent offense by Mir. Clearly Mir thought he had the advantage on the ground since he tried to get him there so I don't see why that wouldn't be something you would try to do.

Fans bitch about LnP and Wall and Stall. Either way, they're generally unhappy. Mir gave a highlight reel KO to Cro Cop. Once he saw the opening he jumped all over it like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat.

Highlight reel? I strongly disagree with that. Maybe I have to rewatch it but I was very unimpressed by it and not just because everything before that fight was boring. I don't mind any aspect of the sport whether it be wrestling, grappling, striking, working the clinch, anything really. I don't bitch when fighters are active, no matter where they're at in the octagon as long as they're fighting. But yeah, fans bitch either way for the most part.

The presumption in your comment is that Dana KNEW what Mir's gameplan was. I highly doubt he did. About the only time Mir hasn't shown evolution as a fighter has been against Carwin and Lesnar.

So you're saying that Mir's gameplan was to not engage? That makes no sense. And clearly Mir's gameplan was to eventually get him down or else he wouldn't have shot for the take downs. Even if getting it to the ground wasn't the original plan, the fact that he shot for the take downs shows that he gave up on his original plan and decided to try and get in guard. Only when that didn't work did he go back to clinching and not working offensively. Herd Dean is the best ref in the game outside of Big John and every separation he called for was warranted.

He's knocked out/down Kongo, Cro Cop and Nog. Nog had never been finished before that.

There is no way we can sit here and say that Nog was or is the fighter he used to be. Or that he looked like the Big Nog of yesteryear in that fight. Again, not to take anything away from Frank but Nog was not the same fighter. He did look good in the Kongo fight but look at it; his gameplan went accordingly right away. He worked his improved standup and landed a shot immediately. He went right for the sub, something he's comfortable with. His plan worked, he looked good. We come full circle to Dana's original comment; when things don't go his way right off the bad he seems to lose desire and drive.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Agreed here. If the eye injury he sustained would have only led to more serious, permanent damage then it was a good call. I don't think this has anything to do with Mir's heart or lack thereof.

(Not being a dick) Cro Cop, not Mir. CC tapped to JDS because of an eye injury. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

First off, I cannot stand when people think it's okay for one fighter to fight for a decision and not another. I'm not saying you are a culprit of this, just pointing out that mma fans can be extremely hypocritical at times with this kind of stuff. Dunham had fought for a finish through out his fight with Sherk. Mir did not. Neither did Mirko, I'm not showing any favoritism. I know the difference between aggressively fighting for a decision (see Sonnen/Silva) and grinding it out because you have nothing to give offensively. Mir had completed step one: Get Cro Cop against the cage. He did very little offensively once they were there. He only utilized his knees in the first when he could have used them a lot more. He was fighting more to not get hit then to win. Anytime a fighter fights like that it should be looked down upon.

So why hasn't Dana shit on GSP for his recent efforts?

Low percentage? His chances at submitting Mirko were just as good if not better than him knocking him out. I don't mean to take anything away from Mir, but that knockout could be contributed more to a mistake by Mirko rather than excellent offense by Mir. Clearly Mir thought he had the advantage on the ground since he tried to get him there so I don't see why that wouldn't be something you would try to do.

Doubtful, Mir stands a better chance against a man who hasn't looked like he's wanted to pull the trigger on his punches since 2006 than he does against a man who's only been submitted twice in his entire career. I'm only thinking as a planner.

Were I his coach, I would have opted to stand with CC because he's looked lack luster recently, but he's only been OFFICIALLY tapped once in his entire career.

Highlight reel? I strongly disagree with that. Maybe I have to rewatch it but I was very unimpressed by it and not just because everything before that fight was boring. I don't mind any aspect of the sport whether it be wrestling, grappling, striking, working the clinch, anything really. I don't bitch when fighters are active, no matter where they're at in the octagon as long as they're fighting. But yeah, fans bitch either way for the most part.

I said "WOW" when it happened. Maybe because the fight was so boring I didn't see it (or anything) coming. Is that a fair compromise?

So you're saying that Mir's gameplan was to not engage? That makes no sense. And clearly Mir's gameplan was to eventually get him down or else he wouldn't have shot for the take downs. Even if getting it to the ground wasn't the original plan, the fact that he shot for the take downs shows that he gave up on his original plan and decided to try and get in guard. Only when that didn't work did he go back to clinching and not working offensively. Herd Dean is the best ref in the game outside of Big John and every separation he called for was warranted.

Not engaging with a HIGH level striker isn't a bad plan. People used to fear Chuck Liddell because of his ability to end a person with one punch, however, eventually people slowly imposed themselves and then began to pick him apart in their own ways and get the win.

Maybe Chuck might be a bad example. I guess here's something better. Rashad didn't do anymore than what Frank did. Matter of fact, he did less against Rampage. As that fight went the distance, but Dana awarded him with a title shot. Lyoto (my favorite guy) was also known as a king of people that backed off when things weren't playing into what he liked.

I honestly believe Dana is directing his frustrations toward the wrong person. Mir has never been the ultimate aggressor. Cro Cop has been the let down. I think he's just pissed that, either, Mir didn't BLAST CC early, or CC didn't blast Mir.

There is no way we can sit here and say that Nog was or is the fighter he used to be. Or that he looked like the Big Nog of yesteryear in that fight. Again, not to take anything away from Frank but Nog was not the same fighter. He did look good in the Kongo fight but look at it; his gameplan went accordingly right away. He worked his improved standup and landed a shot immediately. He went right for the sub, something he's comfortable with. His plan worked, he looked good. We come full circle to Dana's original comment; when things don't go his way right off the bad he seems to lose desire and drive.

I don't think he loses his drive, I think Mir has learned that, through Lesnar and Carwin, he shouldn't engage in his opponents' strengths. Everyone criticized Mir for wanted to engage Carwin and Lesnar in their strengths. So, he backs off from that strategy and he still receives the same.

Look, I hate the fucker, but I can defend what he did in this instance. I'm not arguing this from a "pro-Mir" standpoint. I wanted Cro Cop to put his head through a wall.