Could this be the problem with the WWE?

[Matt7584]

We all know that boxing and wrestling have seen major decline of interest over the last 10 years or so. The major issue for boxing is the lack of legitimate fighters and lack of effort by boxers at big ppv's. The fighters are more interested in the money then they are in the titles. We could discuss boxing from here until tomorrow but this is a wrestling forum.
Could the problem with the WWE be that its wrestling is fake and boring? i know i know all professional wrestling is fake but the WWE and WCW got away with it in the 90's becuase of the storylines. They also put togther matches that made you wonder how could this be fake. You had TLC's where jeff hardy nearly died at the sight of his moves, you had guys going through tables, and shane mc jumping off 25 feet in the air. I have been a fan of wrestling for nearly 20 years and find most matches boring. The storylines arent like the attitude era but they are still solid. The problem is that the matches are slow and sloppy. The attitude era put on fast paced 25 minute matches. where today we 15 minutes of slow paced matches.

So do you agree that the matches are too slow and boring and do you think the fakeness contributes to declining ppv sales and tv ratings?

 

[ABMorales787]

No, I don't think that's the problem. The formula for most matches has been the same for decades in WWE. I don't believe the matches are the problem as it is more WWE's inability to create a true stand out figure. You can point to John Cena, but he's just one man. Back in the 90's WWE had Steve Austin, The Rock, Mankind and Triple H. WCW had Sting, Goldberg, Ric Flair, Randy Savage. Point is WWE doesn't offer much that stands out to the world outside of it's already established fanbase. Look at UFC. Silva, Lesnar, Liddell, Velasquez. Key figures come, go and return all the time. Which keeps the company looking fresh, new and appealing to anyone. We can't say that about WWE these days.

 

[ptsheridan]

The WWE is in a state of rebuilding right now. As guys like Ziggler, Morrison, maybe Mcintyre and others grow and mature as entertainers, the storylines will get more personal and then you'll have the three or four top new wrestlers in the business again.

Give it 4 to 5 years.

I do, however, think that WWE needs to decide sooner rather than later which young guys they will push into the main even picture. They need to stop fooling themselves into thinking a guy like Kofi Kingston can be a future world champion. He doesn't have the mic skills and his gimmick is already old and tired. Only little kids like Kofi with his boom boom boom crap and his bright colors.

If he ever does become champion, it'll definitely be smackdown champion for him and only for a short period of time.

 

[TheMainMan32]

The state of rebuilding line is an excuse. Look at guys like Kurt Angle, The Rock, Jericho, Stone Cold, HHH, Big Show, Mankind, John Cena, the Dudley Boyz. These guys came in and got over in a year or less. Not the 3 year path that most of the current roster seems to be on. Even guys that took longer to catch MAJOR heat like Edge, and Christian, still put on fantastic matches in the mid card on just about every show.

I think that before The Rock went to Hollywood, guys were more concentrating on being the biggest star on the roster. Now, you have guys like Ted Dibiase starring in his own straight-to-DVD movie. These guys either already feel like they are big stars so don't feel the need to be the man on the roster; or are more interested in using the WWE as a stepping stone to other entertainment opportunities.

Another problem is the devaluing of the WWE Championship. It doesn't mean as much to be WWE Champ anymore. It doesnt automatically mean that you're the man any longer, and the wrestlers act like it. I.E. The Miz and Jack Swagger.

 

[ptsheridan]

The state of rebuilding line is an excuse. Look at guys like Kurt Angle, The Rock, Jericho, Stone Cold, HHH, Big Show, Mankind, John Cena, the Dudley Boyz. These guys came in and got over in a year or less. Not the 3 year path that most of the current roster seems to be on. Even guys that took longer to catch MAJOR heat like Edge, and Christian, still put on fantastic matches in the mid card on just about every show.

I think that before The Rock went to Hollywood, guys were more concentrating on being the biggest star on the roster. Now, you have guys like Ted Dibiase starring in his own straight-to-DVD movie. These guys either already feel like they are big stars so don't feel the need to be the man on the roster; or are more interested in using the WWE as a stepping stone to other entertainment opportunities.

Another problem is the devaluing of the WWE Championship. It doesn't mean as much to be WWE Champ anymore. It doesnt automatically mean that you're the man any longer, and the wrestlers act like it. I.E. The Miz and Jack Swagger.

What are you talking about? It took a while for Stone Cold to get over and only really happened when Bret Hart helped him do it. HHH was in the WWE for YEARS before finally getting over. He was the blue blood and got a cigar shoved up his ass at Wrestlemania for Christ's sake and had to pay his dues jobbing to guys of lesser talent because of the part he played in the curtain call.

Everyone HATED The Rock when he came into the WWE as Rocky Maivia and only after a while of being there when he turned heel and joined the Nation and eventually dethroned Farooq's position and feuded with the DX did The Rock finally get over.

Guys like Jericho and the Dudley Boyz are different because they were already established before debuting in the WWE and even then, after initially interrupting The Rock during a promo, Jericho still just kind of stood around and did nothing until he feuded with Chyna over the Intercontinental belt.

Edge and Christian were freaking VAMPIRES with that dbag Gangrel when they first came to the WWE and nobody gave a crap about them.

So basically, in conclusion, please think before making blanket statements about how all of these superstars were so over in less than a year.

 

[shitsngiggles]

They seem to be focusing more on "names" rather than characters.

Look at these none of them stand out (except perhaps orton): evan bourne, cody rhodes, randy orton, husky harris, dolph ziggler, drew mcintyre, jack swagger, Daniel Bryan, wade barrett, david otunga, mason ryan,

The names suck because they don't provide any character. now look at these:

HHH, The Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, Sting, Goldberg, Mankind, The Rock, Kane, Mr Perfect, HULK hogan etc.

These to me provide a character and give them more weight. Going along the lines of having a bunch of guys with random names and no character is ruining the WWE

 

[TheMainMan32]

How long did it take for The Rock to become WWF champion? Jericho himself stated that it didnt take long for these guys to get over. So, maybe a year was pushing it, but at least the WWF tried different gimmicks with the wrestlers instead of ignoring the fact that most of their roster can't catch heat with a blowtorch. Right now these guys are treading water.

And as far your last cute little line, fuck you. Unless you have MOD in your title , don't tell me to do a motherfucking thing. Don't like it? Complain to someone that can do somehow about it. If not, fuck you.

 

[classicviolence]

WWE's problem is that guys are too scripted in promos. JoMo is a prime example of someone who can speak, but has cheesy WWE fed lines.

For me 2006, 2008 and the 1st half of 2009 were awesome times to be a WWE fan. Things were going on every week, Championship changes were interesting and WWE took chances with new main eventers. (RVD, Edge, Jeff Hardy, CM Punk etc.)

The IWC should all know by now that the WWE is in DESPERATION mode for new main eventers. Miz, ADR, Ziggler, Barrett and Sheamus whether we like it or not will be continued to be forced feed to us until it becomes the norm. We all know that after the AE ended WWE was trying to find the next big guy. Lesnar left WWE, Eddie passed away and Cena makes bad movies and poopy jokes.

They need a new top guy and sadly only ADR out of that group has the ability to work extremely well as a face/heel and could possibly be a big money player. Sin Cara and Daniel Bryan have strong potential to be big money players for WWE but time will tell.

To breakup the little scuffle above. Austin was hired in WWF in late 1995, by the summer of 1996 he was the sh**. It didnt take Austin long at all to become the man in WWE, after KOTR he became over because he cursed and at that time cussing in WWF was a no no.

Fans ate it up.

 

[aman7525]

i don't think that the fakeness of the matches is the problem, as i don't think that the wrestlers have to go out of their way to risk their lives to put on a compelling match. guys like ric flair, triple h, hogan, undertaker, have been able to have the longevity and success that they have had not because of falling of of ladders and doing crazy spots. they have had their success because they can make the audience care about whatever they do. for the first half of my life i believed that hogans leg drop was the only thing that scared chuck norris.

the high risk guys like RVD,Hardy,the entire ecw roster, and so on have so many health problems and can only work limited schedules because of all of the wear and tear they put on their body. but none of them are mentioned when discussing the greatest wrestlers of all time.

I'm a fan of the original ECW, but i realize that that style could not go on forever. it's career suicide. i do think that when used sparingly high spots are a great idea. shawn micheals wouldn't go near a ladder for 51 weeks out of the year but come MANIA he seems to be glued to them. and that one time a year seems so magical because its the only time you saw that from him.

i seem to be getting off topic....got to make a point so i don't get infracted again....okay here it is.

the problem with the wwe is their inability to make new stars. the seemingly purposeful shortening of matches(how am i supposed to get into a match that ends in 3 minutes???) and last but not least where have all of the story lines gone????

wrestling used to be considered soap operas for men. not the most flattering title, but pretty accurate. we watch the wrestling for the drama as much as we do the action. think back on the most memorable matches of all time and think of the stories that were attached to them. it was more than just i don't like you lets fight. give me a reason to care about the fight.

that is all.

 

[Captain Jive]

WWE's problem is that guys are too scripted in promos. JoMo is a prime example of someone who can speak, but has cheesy WWE fed lines.

Exactly. THAT is what the problem is. You can watch numerous interviews with top stars in the business, and they will all say that the best characters are when you are yourself with the volume turned up. These wrestlers aren't people who spent years in acting classes to learn how to convey emotion from a script. The best promos of all time weren't written out word for word beforehand. Take a look at last night's promo from Cena for example. The Miz has 2,000 pair of blue pants and eats toilet paper???? Cena himself would have never come up with something as corny as that. Love him or hate him, you have to admit, he is more creative than that. You can't blame that on just being PG, fucking Squidward has better insults than that.

Every now and then, you get a couple of stars that can make the script work for them, but not many. Punk is a good example of this, he stays in the PG realm, but the way he delivers his promos, just make it awesome. Cena on the other hand, is pretty good when he's being himself, but his scripted stuff is horrible. I don't know how the writing staff is broken down and who writes for what storyline, but whoever does Cena's stuff needs to be fired. I know I've mentioned him a lot, and I am by no means bashing HIM, just the writing.

Basically, they're grown ass men, let them go out there and do what they do, and if they fail then they weren't meant to make it, if they succeed, then yay for everyone. If Stone Cold had to stick to a script, we probably never would've gotten Austin 3:16. I say just give the guys a few bullet points to hit, and let them do the rest.

 

[achromat666]

A big part of it is the WWE's own fault. For decades most of the wrestling promotions (AWA, NWA, and many others) were able to develop talent and the WWE could simply scout and have their pick to come up to the big time and try to make a name for itself.

Fast forwarding a bit, when it came down to WCW, and ECW (both from older promotions) competing directly with WWF (at the time) wrestling was seemingly at it's healthiest because the shows were so different, interest was through the roof, and business was booming big. But all of these promotions came from far older ones (WWWE, NWA, Eastern Championship Wrestling) and clearly many of these promotions were already on the way out.

When Vince acquired both WCW and ECW, he lost the ability to draw from them for talent. And around the time the frustrated talent started coming over from WCW (Jericho, the Radicalz, many of the stars from the Invasion angle) and of course the ECW wrestlers Vince had a plethora of talent to choose from and rounded out his shows with them and let the rest go. A lot of this talent had made up a great deal of the WWE's pool for a good while after that.

But between talent getting fired, leaving or retiring, and over a good deal of time without competition the WWE started trying to create its own. Breaking the shows into different brands and creating drafts and giving titles to each show to emphasize the brands. Bringing ECW back was a mixed bag of trying to focus on another brand and simply bring in new talent, which was mismanaged a bit and only succeeded in creating a few real names.

Now, no ECW brand, nowhere to draw talent from but ROH and TNA, neither of which have the history or the depth of talent to draw from the other promotions had. In TNA's case, the most over talent being promoted used to work for them, and the TNA bred that have come to the WWE have not lasted long.

The problem is the WWE itself, a juggernaut force in the business with no one to draw from or to compete with so it's slowly losing its way, not having talent with the experience coming into the company many of the previous big stars have had (Austin, Undertaker, Lawler, Hennig, Rude, this is a long list) So it takes longer to develop talent and there isn't always guaranteed results.

I think they'll get better by continuing to invest in newer talent, but in a few years they won't have a choice. HHH, Taker, Edge, Mysterio, Kane, Show, Henry, and the like can't have too many more years in the ring. And if beyond that all we have is Cena, Orton, and Punk to get the rest of the talent over they'll be in trouble. So the youth movement is vital.

But in my view, Vince screwed Vince.

 

[Yrrab]

Hold on.

There's a problem in WWE? Ever since Bret Hart's return last year, I've seen consistent programming, solid ratings, and have been entertained on a weekly basis. They have a fantastic set of newcomers, they have incredible champions, and they're pulling out even more stops on the road to wrestlemania. They brought back The Rock, Triple H, The Undertaker, and next week, Stone Cold.

Where's the problem?

 

[billm75]

I think the biggest thing working against any pro wrestling, WWE specificially, is that they don't allow the performers to connect with the audience in any meaningful way.

They don't get camera or mic time hardly at all. I know many will say "Yeah but so-and-so doesn't have mic skills", but hell, you can't perfect mic skills unless you get a chance to be on the mic in the first place. We know absolutely nothing about Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne, Daniel Bryan, etc. Yeah, they're good in the ring, but fans need to care about these guys beyond winning and losing. And no, every promo doesn't need to bring the house down, but focus on these guys as people a little bit. Let the fans learn to love them or hate them.

Feuds are thrown together so haphazardly anymore that you don't really give a damn who wins or loses. Punk vs. Orton, really? Why? Because of a 2 or 3 year old punt to the head? Come on. Let's build this thing up a little. Let Punk and crew screw Orton over. Cena vs. Miz? Where's the conflict? Miz is an ass and Cena is the superhero. Whoopty doo.

 

[JaylisJayP]

It's 50% talent issues and 50% lack of creativity with storylines. You can have the most charistmatic wrestlers in history but if there's no compelling storylines, nobody is going to care.

 

[yellowdog22]

I believe that it's up to the wrestler to internalize the character and come up with ideas to make it better. I've read numerous books/articles that sum it up. From Y2J to Mankind to Dawn Marie... Mankind said his name was going to be Manson The Mutilator and he suggested Mankind The Mutilator, which in turn became Mankind. What about Steve McFreeze changing to Stone Cold at the suggestion of Steve's wife? What about Dawn Marie saying that she had an outfit that the producers didn't want her to wear but Vince said to her, "That's the thing I love about You, Dawn, you take something so small and try to make it into something bigger.

If you can show people what you want, there's no stopping you.

Billy Gunn was on commentary when he said, "We're like a new age outlaw" and the gimmick stuck! "Rock-A-Billy" and The Road Dogg was not supposed to work!

WWE is not at the mercy of creating stars that they were in 1998. They are "The Man" and until TNA can start having wrestlers that aren't WWE-Rejects and concentrating on homegrown gimmicks WWE doesn't have anything to worry about.

 

[TheGamea]

We all know that boxing and wrestling have seen major decline of interest over the last 10 years or so. The major issue for boxing is the lack of legitimate fighters and lack of effort by boxers at big ppv's. The fighters are more interested in the money then they are in the titles. We could discuss boxing from here until tomorrow but this is a wrestling forum.
Could the problem with the WWE be that its wrestling is fake and boring? i know i know all professional wrestling is fake but the WWE and WCW got away with it in the 90's becuase of the storylines. They also put togther matches that made you wonder how could this be fake. You had TLC's where jeff hardy nearly died at the sight of his moves, you had guys going through tables, and shane mc jumping off 25 feet in the air. I have been a fan of wrestling for nearly 20 years and find most matches boring. The storylines arent like the attitude era but they are still solid. The problem is that the matches are slow and sloppy. The attitude era put on fast paced 25 minute matches. where today we 15 minutes of slow paced matches.

So do you agree that the matches are too slow and boring and do you think the fakeness contributes to declining ppv sales and tv ratings?

ok raw got a rating of what 3.8 and it was higher last week who said there IS a problem...