Compare Matches With Mutual Opponents: Bret And Shawn

[RIPbossman]

In Ric Flair's autobiography he said "Shawn Michaels is much better than Bret Hart. There really is no comparison." I've seen many other people say HBK is much better than Bret.

I feel the most fair way to compare these two, since they wrestled in the same era and wrestled many mutual opponents, is to compare the matches they had with the same wrestlers.

Which wrestler, Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart, had the better matches with these opponents: (Note: You shouldn't factor in no dq matches unless both wrestlers had no dq matches with the same wrestler. These types of matches make it far easier to be entertaining. Even Great Khali was significantly better in gimmick matches.)

Mr. Perfect
Owen Hart (Summer Slam Cage Match not factored in)
Diesel (both had no dq matches with him, it all gets factored in)
Sid
Undertaker (HIAC and Casket matches not factored in)
Steve Austin (Submission match not factored in)
British Bulldog
Vader
Chris Benoit
Razor Ramon (Ladder matches not factored in)

Here are my thoughts.

Mr. Perfect: I say Bret had better matches against Hennig. I know Perfect's back was in bad shape against HBK at Summer Slam 93, but his back was also in bad shape against Hart at Summer Slam 91. Bret wrestled Perfect less than 3 months before Shawn did at KOTR and both Hart/Perfect matches are classics. Shawn's match was nothing special.

Owen Hart: I give this to Bret. I'm not counting their cage match. Shawn had a really good match with Owen at IYH February 96, but nothing Shawn did with Owen is as good as the WM 10 match.

Diesel: Tie. Here both wrestlers each had a high profile no dq match against him. Both, imo, were equally spectacular. Both had very good but not great standard matches with him.

Sid: Shawn. Bret had a pretty good match with Sid at IYH December 96. But imo Shawn's matches at Survivor series 96 and Royal Rumble 97 were better.

Undertaker: Not enough sample size to determine. I can't count Shawn's HIAC match or his casket match because they are no dq matches. To my knowledge Bret never had a no dq match with Undertaker. I also can't count Shawn's WM matches because by then Taker had improved dramatically as a worker, and that's not a fair comparison.

Steve Austin: Bret. Based on their televised matches, I say Bret. I don't factor in the WM 13 match, and I won't count the WM 14 match because Shawn's back was in terrible shape. Going by the KOTR match Shawn had and the other ppv matches Bret had with him, I say Bret.

Bulldog: Bret by a little bit. Shawn had some really good matches with him like on SNME and One Night Only, but Bret also had really good matches with him at Summer Slam and IYH December 95. This could go either way, but I think Bret edges him out.

Vader: Haven't seen Bret wrestle Vader. N/A.

Benoit: Both had lengthy standard singles matches with Benoit on free tv. In my opinion, Shawn had the better match with him. Benoit is all about wrestling at a fast pace and non stop action, and I feel Shawn complimented him more. Bret's match with Benoit that was a tribute to Owen on Nitro was still great.

Razor Ramon: Bret. I'm can't count the ladder matches Shawn had with Razor, so I'm going by Shawn's Raw matches with him and Bret's Royal Rumble 93 match and his KOTR match. Shawn had some really great, edge of your seat matches with Razor, but Bret's Royal Rumble match with him was excellent and well crafted. This is very close and could go either way.


So in my opinion, based on what I've seen, when Bret and Shawn had mutual opponents, under the same circumstances, Bret usually had the better match.

 

[FromGlasgowScotland]

Both two of the greatest of all time I won't get into every match but overall I would have to go with Bret having a very slight advantage over Shawn if it's being judged on how much I enjoyed watching them perform.

 

[Aquaman6686]

For me, it comes down to this. Bret is a better technical wrestler. Shawn is more charismatic, a better talker, and can have better matches with a wider variety of opponents. Michaels is the overall #1 top all-time WWE Superstar for me. Bret is top 10.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Interesting way to compare the two. I like it but I don't think you can pick who's better just based on this.

Based upon your list, I think Bret gets the nod with those workers. The problem is, you can't just compare the matches. You have to look at the whole situation.

Curt Henning: He wasn't as good as he was in 93 when he wrestled Shawn as he was in 91 when he wrestled Bret.

Owen Hart: This one is pretty fair. They both got a high level ppv match with Owen.

Diesel: Also a pretty fair comparison, they wrestled main event matches in the same time frame. I mean even give the nod to Bret here just for their SurSer 1995 match

Sid: Shawn wrestled him in two main ppv events. Bret got 10 minutes with him on Raw. I just can't justify a comparison here.

Taker: I think you have to count HIAC because Bret also had a main event match against Taker. I give this one to Shawn.

Austin: I know your not counting WM13 but Austin had two make it or break it opportunities with Bret. Even though, Shawn and Steve main evented WM, Shawn was in no condition to make this a top match. All this being said, I think its still fair to give it to Bret since they had such great chemistry together.

Bulldog: They both had great matches with Bulldog. Its fair to give to Bret here.

Vader: Bret did wrestle him. But Shawns matches were ppv main events and Brets were 8-10 minute Raw matches.

Benoit: Shawns matches were better but we have a clear headed Shawn Michaels here in his 2nd run. Brets head wasn't in it in WCW. I don't think you can compare the two.

Razor: its fair to take the ladder out here. Shawn never had a key matchup with Razor outside of them. Bret had a ppv main event against Razor.

Also, I think this doesn't count a lot of their best work.

Shawn had great matches with Marty in 1993. Bret didn't wrestle him.
Bret had great matches with Backlund in 1993. Shawn didn't wrestle him.

Shawns best match in 1995 was with Jarrett and Brets was with Hakushi. I can't remember Shawn/Hakushi or Bret/Jarrett wrestling in similar situations.

Shawns best match in 1996 was with Mick.
Brets best match in 1996 was with Steve.
Shawn/Steve and Bret/Mick didn't wrestle each other in key matches.

 

[Goldie]

At the time Flair released his book in 2004, Flair and Bret were at loggerheads and took swipes at each other.... now they are friends Flair now praising Bret, and in a youtube video when he was doing appearances in the UK, Flair called the Bret:Bulldog match at summerlam 92, one of the greatest matches ever.
I'd take Flairs comments in his book with a pinch of salt.

Personally I think Bret was the better 'mat wrestler' and submission wrestler, whilst Shawns asset was his breath taking bumping ability.

 

[Goldie]

Kevin Nash allegedly told Bret (so Bret says in his book) that his best ever match was the Survivor Series 95 match.... which must trump his WM11 match with Shawn in Nashs opinion.

Shawn said that he always had great matches with Davey Boy... yet Brets matches with Davery were better still. '92 is still the greatest summerslam match ever.

I'd saw Shawn gets the nod with Taker due to HIAC and their Maina classics.

Bret and Curt Hnenig were great friends, and their summerslam 91 match is almost on the level of Davey:Bret the following year.... yer Shawn:Hennig at Summerlsam 93 was a slight disappointment, though it was the point in Curts career where injures were taking their toll.

Its a valid point that Bret was a shell of his former self in WCW- yet the Hitman of old shone through in his matches with Benoit..... the Owen tribute match was one of the bets Nitro matches ever.... yet its still a close call with Shawn:Benoit.

I'd give Shawn the nod for matches with Razor/Scott Hall.... the ladder match remains a classic 25years later.

Matches with Owen Hart... I'd give to Bret though... their WM10 match is likely the best WM opener ever and the cage match at summerslam remains another classic

Steve Austin?? got to be Bret for the sake of their WM13 match. Whilst Shawns back was giving out at WM14.... you can't take away the superb performance from Bret at WM13, and the double turn was wrestling strorytelling at its best

 

[RIPbossman]

Just to be clear, Bret did wrestle Sid in a ppv main event. In Your House, December 96.

Shawn had at least one lengthy Raw match with Razor which was great.

And I don't think it's fair to factor in Shawn's HIAC match with Taker because even though Bret did have ppv main events against Taker, none of them were no dq matches. We don't know what Bret could have done with Taker in that environment.

 

[Goldie]

As well as their slightly disappointing Royal Rumble 96 outing- Bret and Taker did square up on the One Night Only PPV in Sep 1997, but that was a UK based PPV.... Taker and Bret had a better match on this show, but it still had a screwy DQ finish (Taker was DQ'd for persistent choking).

In the mid 90s you rarely got a Face vs Face match - which is likely why we rarely saw them face off (though Bret was technically a heel in '97... the Hart Foundation was cheered in this UK PPV as it wasn't on American soil)... Owen even cut a promo praising the UK fans on the show to solidfy this.

 

[enviousdominous]

I used to be firmly on the side of Bret, in that Bret seemed to be more of a professional than Shawn. Now I’m on the fence, mainly because I took a closer look at what was happening during their Iron Man match.

Most of you know what I’m talking about, but for those who don’t, there were some pretty messed up things going on.

During the match, Shawn worked Bret’s arm between spots for about 40 minutes. At that point, Bret started throwing clotheslines and punches with that same arm as if to flat-out no-sell everything that Shawn had done up to that point.

Also; after the ending to the match where Shawn had become the WWF Champion, Shawn sat there with the belt and shouted “GET THE HELL OUT OF MY RING!” The camera then cut to Bret’s son marking out to seeing Shawn beat his Dad, and he was singing the Shawn Michaels theme.

My take; Shawn became better than Bret, because Bret let his attitude make him worse than Shawn.

 

[Goldie]

Bret had a worse attitude than Shawn? In the 90s Shawn was renowned for his backstage misconduct and refusal to lose matches... (yes Bret did so with Montreal but that's because it was Shawn) .... numerous wrestlers felt their careers were sabotaged by Shawn and his clique buddies.

Bret was generally very professional... except whenever it came to Shawn, whom (at the time) he detested (as did Shawn with Bret).

When Shawn came back in 2002 he had his 'I'm a good Christian boy now' image... but elements of the old Shawn still surfaced form time to time (remember Shawn purposely over selling in his match against Hogan?).

 

[relentless1]

Shawn is SO overrated its not even funny... the WWE Machine has tried to elevate he and Taker to Hogan/ Austin levels when that's just not the case, as for your question here goes:

Mr. Perfect - Bret Hart, SummerSlam '91

Owen Hart - Bret Hart, WrestleMania X

Diesel - Bret Hart, Survivor Series '95

Sid - HBK, Survivor Series '96, Royal Rumble '97

Undertaker - HBK, WrestleMania 26

Steve Austin - Bret Hart, Survivor Series '96, WrestleMania 13

British Bulldog - Bret Hart, SummerSlam '92

Vader - Tie, both had underwhelming matches with Vader

Chris Benoit - Bret Hart, WCW Nitro October '99

Razor Ramon - Bret Hart, Royal Rumble '93 (HBK would win if ladder matches were involved)

Bret Hart - 7
HBK - 2

Its a landslide for Bret and its not really close when you do a comparison like this; Shawn was much more athletic but Bret was the much better wrestler; he had better matches across the board, he knew how to tell a story in the ring a lot better than Shawn ever did and its not even a debate really.

 

[Goldie]

That post is spot on Relentless1.

Whilst I appreciate that Shawn was a fantastic worker and a bumping machine..... Bret is the 'wrestlers wrestler' here. He was impeccable at structuring his matches and timing his comebacks.

And that's also a good point about WWE showcasing the stars they are on good terms with.
Taker is rammed down our throats as the greatest of all time in WWE television and media.... but he is NOT Hulk Hogan. Hogan was a master at working the audience.
Austin and Rock of course... were also much bigger stars at their peaks.... Takers stake is his longevity.... but he was never at any given point the biggest star in the company.
Neither Shawn or Bret were box office gold either .... Hogan, Austin, Rock... and also Bruno are on that highest pedestal.

 

[Bernard de Hattrix]

Not sure how much Ric Flair's opinion means here, considering the fact that he was positively imbued with this childish axe to grind with Hart. Flair resented Hart for being given the nod over him to take the WWF title in 1992 in Saskatoon, but I think actually hated him more for a backstage incident that happened shortly after, when Flair decided that he was going to call a match with Bret because he's Ric Flair, and Hart told him, "Nuh-uh, I'm calling the match because I'm the mother fucking champion."

Whether Hart was more accomplished or whether it was Michaels is almost impossible for me to decide, as both Hart and Michaels played a roughly parallel role in wrestling history. They were two of the earliest champions to be dominant titleholders despite not being overmuscled roiders, they were the avowed top two heavyweight work horses in the mid-90s, their individual acsensions coincided with a period of poor business for the WWF in comparison with the rival WCW, and they both led two of the more noteworthy factions in wrestling at that time, The Hart Foundation and DeGeneration X.

Where their paths diversify is where Hart left the WWF for WCW (and later won a pair of WCW championships), while Michaels chose to stay put in the WWF. Hart also had a higher number of world championships to his credit overall that had Michaels. It is on the earlier outlined basis that I would give the nod to Hart as the more accomplished wrestler, although not by much.

Of course, if we're talking strictly work ratio, there really is no objective criteria that can give either man a decisive edge over the other.

 

[ElDuderino]

I don't think the comparison of the British Bulldog matches were close at all. Bret's matches with Davey at Summerslam & In Your House were far better than Shawn's.

When it comes to Taker and Austin, I think it's a flawed comparison to not include the special matches, even it's out of fairness. Bret & Austin @ WM13 was a special match driven by a compelling storyline with some incredible moments and one of the greatest double turns ever. There's no way HBK would have been capable of pulling this off, he just wasn't as collaborative a performer as Bret. Shawn's matches were all about Shawn. In this instance, even though Bret won, Austin looked like the hero. There's no way HBK could have pulled that off.

Shawn's HIAC match with Undertaker on the other hand is incredibly impressive and if I'm being honest, would not have been as good if you replaced Shawn with Bret. I understand matches can't be all highspots but I feel like Bret was a little too risk-averse sometimes. If you watch his cage matches, for example, they're great but they seem to lack the highspots that Shawn's had. It's worth pointing out that Shawn & Undertaker had a compelling feud in large part thanks to Bret's involvement with both guys.

It's a close call and comes down to personal preference really. For me, it was Bret. Shawn's athleticism was impressive but he seemed like an over-actor when he sold for other guys and most of his matches just seemed to be about him showing off. Bret on the otherhand told great stories in the ring and was a grittier more realistic looking performer. His no-DQ matches lacked highspots but didn't really need them to be thrilling because they were grueling and punishing.

Truthfully, they brought out the best in each other and it's shame we didn't get a cage match, no DQ or a proper ladder match between the 2. They would have been fantastic.

** The ladder match they did have was just from a house show and only done to show the potential of ladder matches.