CM Punk, Best Wrestler Ever?

[ScruffDog]

So I’ve been thinking. With Punk being put in this new story line I realized something, Punk is great at everything. No mater what story line he is in, whether he is a face or heel, he is always the best part of the story line, and make the story interesting. When ever he gets on the mic, we all listen intently to every word, and when he is in the ring we watch with great interest. Let’s face it, Puck just spews out wrestling gold.

With all that considers, wouldn’t that make him the best wrestler ever? What other wrestler can you say was always entertaining no mater what story line he was in? Austin, Rock, Hogan, even Undertaker have had there share of boring story lines that we couldn’t wait to end. With Punk, he makes everything interesting, and we can’t wait to see were he goes with it.

By the fact that he can take any story line you through at him, and make us instantly care about it, no mater what it is, doesn’t that make him one of, if not the, best ever? If not, what dose it take to be the best ever?

I feel that since this is an entertainment business, we should judge wrestlers on how well they entertain us. Punk is one of the most entertaining people to ever step foot in the ring, everything he dose is entertaining, so for that fact I think his name should be considers when we talk about the Best Wrestler Ever.

 

[a0161613]

Don't get me wrong. Punk is brilliant at what he does.

However......this statement is beyond ridiculous. When you aren't even the best of the last ten or fifteen years, how can you be the best ever? I find many of the newer wrestlers entertaining, from WWE and TNA but the claim to make someone put Punk above Flair or Austin or Angle is just baffling to me. I personally think AJ Styles is better than Punk but I wouldn't think about making this statement in his favour.

Punk's ability will hold him in good stead in the minds of wrestling fans for many years. But of all time, he probably won't even make most peoples' all time top ten.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

He's not the "best ever", but he is the total package. Punk has the charisma, in-ring ability, and the look that is needed to be a great superstar. He can go toe-to-toe with almost anyone in the ring, and has put on many great matches before. His promos are funny, serious, or whatever the WWE wants them to be. He's a team player, he can wrestle and announce. However, to call him the "Best Ever" is a completely asinine statement. He's the total package, and may be one of the most talented wrestlers in the WWE right now.

 

[The Eighties]

I like Punk a lot and who knows in another ten years maybe he could be considered for the top ten, but there are guys who are better on the mic than him and lots of guys who are better in the ring than him when you use the word "ever" to select comparisons from.

On a side note I thought the SES was boring, so I wouldn't personally consider every angle he has been in entertaining.

 

[Low_Ki]

I completely understand what your saying ScruffDog, but the whole 'better than Austin/Rock' thing I think is a bit much.

CM Punk started out without much of a gimmick bar his whole 'zero tolerance' on alcohol and drugs thing, and I felt like his character needed a little tweaking. What happened last night was some of the best storytelling that I have seen since Nexus' inception. They owe everything that built up to the final segment on RAW to CM Punk, who quite frankly did an amazing job of building suspence before the final reveal.

Nothing that Punk said to Cena last night was false. And in a weird way, Cena didn't defend himself all that much, he just kind of steered the conversation away from the accusations that Punk was throwing at him, and as a fan, I began siding with Punk.

Punk is very quickly becoming one of the staples of the WWE's main event and I think that he proved his worth to the company last night. ScruffDog, I think you may have struck a nerve with a few, but I think that as far as Punk being a very precious WWE commodety goes right now, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Look we all clearly can't get of the guys stick, we love him so. He is probably the most complete superstar I have seen since Shawn Micheals, but he is yet to prove himself as draw on a constant business. Is he right now? He is gettin' there and this feud will do wonders for sure. The only thing he has some miles to walk before getting the tag of the best ever. Can he? Of course he can.

 

[Aberle4Life]

Punk was absolutely the MVP of RAW last night, and I could see him being the top guy on the show eventually.

His mic work was brilliant. Cena tried to keep up with him, but his limitations were obvious--that was the only thing negative to come out of Punk's awesomeness because WWE doesn't want Cena to look stupid...or do they??

This might be the start of not only a massive Punk push, but the downfall of Cena that will lead to his much-balayhooed heel turn.

Punk was fun to watch last night. I think it was the single-best performance by any superstar on any show this entire year (and we have 12 months to work with now as the New Year is nearly here). Kudos to CM and stepping up when WWE really needed someone to do so. Hopefully they continue to let Punk do his thing, because it's a breath of fresh air.

 

[TUFFY54]

CM Punk is great, but there is no way in hell he is the best ever. While Punk has an amazing heel persona and great in ring skills, he has shown more than once that he tends to drop the ball when he's a world champ. I'd certainly agree that he is the best heel in the WWE today, but just nowhere near the best wrestler ever. I don't know if I would put him in the top 20 or 30 or all time. To be honest this thread kind of suprises me. Punk has had a great last 6 months. However, he's been with the company 5 years and has had a lot of down time.

You say he's better than Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Undertaker because he's never had a boring storyline in 5 years. What your saying simply isn't true. Your claiming that he has been gold since his first day in the company. He was OK at best when he debuted on ECW. His involvement in the ECW orginals vs. New Bread feud was boring. He was boring as the tag team partner of Kofi Kingston. Hell, he was about as boring as possible as a face. You also can't deny that the straight edge society got pretty boring this summer. I don't know what you consider excitment, but CM Punk, Joey Mercury, and Luke Gallows vs. the Big Show in a handicap match doesn't sell a lot of tickets in my book. Answer me this: from 1997 to 2003, when exactly was Steve Austin boring in the WWE. I can't seem to remember a time when he wasn't the hottest wrestler in the company.

Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Brett Hart, Ric Flair, Andre The Giant, Steve Austin, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Undertaker, John Cena, Chris Jericho, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, Kurt Angle, Ricky Steamboat, Dusty Rhoads, Roddy Piper, Ted DiBiase, Mr. Perfect, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sting, Lex Luger, Goldberg. Thats just who I could think of off the top of my head that was better than CM Punk. Therefor, CM Punk is the 27th greatest wrestler of all time!

 

[JGlass]

Is this a joke? CM Punk isn't even the best in the WWE right now, let alone the best ever. I would certainly put CM Punk in the top 10 in the WWE, MAYBE the top 5, but best ever? No fucking way.

Just to name a few, Hogan, Stone Cold, Rock, Angle, HBK, Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Randy Savage, Flair, Andre the Giant, Bret Hart... I could really go on and on all day, but I just decided to put out some top names.

CM Punk is pretty good in the ring, but not great. His matches generally involve quick strikes, maybe a few wrestling moves, and then the GTS. I much prefer seeing the tactical game of an Angle or HBK or the power game of an Undertaker than a striking contest involving CM Punk.

As for mic skills, there is a big split on where CM Punk stands on the mic. However, I think the majority of us can agree that he is most certainly not the best ever on the stick, and most of us would agree he's not even the best in the WWE. I'd at least put Cena, Triple H, Miz, and Edge above CM Punk, and probably a few more if I even tried to put some thought into it. Furthermore, to say he's better than Austin or The Rock is sheer insanity.

And can you imagine CM Punk ever becoming a legend of wrestling? Can you imagine talking to your friends about the greats of wrestling and saying, "Flair, Hogan, Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock, and CM Punk." Seriously, look at every man in that sentence prior to CM Punk, and what do they have in common? At on point they were not only the top names of the company, but they were household names. Hulk Hogan taught kids to take their vitamins and say their prayers, and Austin became the symbol of rebellion for Wrestling fans and non-Wrestling fans alike. CM Punk... encouraged kids to drink by portraying a sober lifestyle as evil? What has CM Punk accomplished in the WWE so far? Sure, he's been entertaining, but he hasn't nearly matched the success of the legends.

Finally, you say CM Punk has never been in a boring program. How about his entire time on ECW? He was entertaining, but the storylines were mailed in by WWE Creative. How about his first WHC title reign? It was the first time Punk received any significant mic time, and he bombed. He was so boring as champion that they wrote him out of the Championship Scramble match at Unforgiven, effectively replacing him as champion by Chris Jericho. Now I really supported Punk at the time, but looking back, it was just a bad title reign.

Every wrestler, no matter how great, will have lackluster feuds, dull matches, ans boring promos. However, the greatest wrestlers are the ones who manage to capture the hearts of millions upon millions and provide us with hours of entertainment. Cena, Hogan, Stone Cold, they have all managed to do this. CM Punk has not.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Like everyone has already said Punk is a complete package. However he needs to go a long way before getting even considered for the tag of the greatest superstar of all time. As a heel he has already proven that he is a strong performer but I feel he would do even better if WWE pushed him more. Like in his feud with Mysterio I believe Punk should have won more matches than he eventually did. I really want to see a year in which Punk is the champion for the entire duration of it, something like an Age of Punk.

I really think that Punk could be a very good and humourous face as well though I do not think he needs to be a great face to be hailed amongst the greatest superstars of all time. Overall I would say that Punk does have a long road to travel before even coming up for consideration as the greatest of all time. He surely has all the neccesary tools for it though.

 

[GideonGodsend]

this is pretty ignorant. you cant just jump the gun on someone who has only been there for 4 years and the first couple years he was in ecw. cm punk is one of the most entertaining guys' ive ever seen, but he still has a long way to go.

 

[Kosugi19]

Punk was definately top dog last night. I thought that was the best Raw in probably the last 5 years. Great match between Orton and Sheamus then to end show like that with Punk was brilliant!

 

[triniphenom]

punk has the total package but remember there is another jericho i never seen him in a boring storyline either he always gives his best

 

[blackmetalbuick]

I don't think he's the best ever, and he might not even be the "complete package". I think it's more about the fact that his charisma and confidence is off the charts. Charisma is such a huge factor, you can be the greatest wrestler in the world but if you've got the personality of Lance Storm nobody is going to care. You can cut promos that seem good on paper, but if you don't connect with the fans, nobody is going to care. I think Punk's charisma is through the roof and this is why he appears he's the best in a long time. His promos aren't all that different from anyone else's, but thanks to his charisma, he's the only guy who doesn't sound like he's acting or reading a script. At the announce table, he wasn't citing fact after fact about wrestling history, or really contributing anything all that amazing, but just the way he comes across, entertaining, sarcastic, natural, he now seems to be the best at that too. It truly is a talent. He's in an arena full of thousands of fans, on TV worldwide, and he is able to speak as though he's talking to someone on the street corner. Cena gets overly preachy, corny, and rehearsed. The Miz just tries too damn hard, you can practically see the strain on his face. Morrison tries to be cool but comes off flat as a pancake. Sheamus is actually pretty good too but nobody will ever pay attention to anything other than his accent. Punk really is in a league of his own. His natural speaking ability is what makes him seem like the best part of any storyline, and thus you enjoy his matches more and anything else he's involved in. But I think it all starts with the charisma. Nobody is perfect, but he can mask his weaknesses by having such a great strength.

 

[Wullief23]

Punk is great. Not sure if you could say the best ever (certainly not at this stage in his carrer anyway) But the guy really is on the money! For me Punk is the ideal guy to step into the huge gap left by Jericho!
Punk is a great wrestler and great on the mic, but the other thing that really makes him stand out from most other is he can step into any storyline and really make it work. He has not had a bad storyline - is this a fluke that the writers have given him top notch storylines - or is it that this guy is really good therefore Makes the storyline! For me i think it is him who makes the storyline. (think about it, could you imagine someone like Morrison or Bryan being leader of the SES - No chance!)

He even gets injured and still stays as one of the best in the biz just by sitting at a commentary desk!


I must also add that just as we all think the Nexus storyline is getting a bit stale and even ready to end, next thing Punk put's on the armband and all of a sudden it has just become the best storyline in WWE again.

So saying the best ever is a really big statement to make, but he certainly is one of the best in this era.

 

[dcarson108]

CM Punk is pretty good in the ring, but not great. His matches generally involve quick strikes, maybe a few wrestling moves, and then the GTS. I much prefer seeing the tactical game of an Angle or HBK or the power game of an Undertaker than a striking contest involving CM Punk.

I would say Punk is fantastic in the ring. The problem for Punk is a lot of his well known matches were ether gimmick matches or matches against The Undertaker or Batista. But again, he did everything right in those matches. Against the Undertaker and Batista, he was suppose to come off as the weaker opponent and he did just that. Look at Punk's ROH stuff. He wasn't reliant on high flying or hardcore matches. He just worked, nice, long, technical matchups. He always seemed to have excellent pace in the ring. However, I've never wrestled Punk so I can't really comment on his ring work. All I know is his matches usually are entertaining and he has the ability to put on what I think are 5 star matches.

As for the question, Punk certainly has the tools to be one of the best over. Good matches, one of the best ever on the mic, good look and gimmick, and most importantly he makes the crowd react. There's been a few times where the crowd was loving him (like last night) and he was able to turn most against him in a matter of 5 seconds. Same thing happened at a recent PPV that was in Chicago. The crowd was loving Punk he was did a great job getting them to boo him (something Kurt Angle couldn't do in Pittsburgh a few years ago).

The problem here is "the best ever" in something like wrestling is completely subjective. If you measure the best ever by wins and titles, then no Punk isn't the greatest ever. If you measure it by how much money they have made, then again, Punk has a long way to go.

 

[ScruffDog]

Come on people, work with me. Only JGlass has given me a good reason why Punk isn't the best of all time.

If every time Punk dose something, we all jump online and start sucking his dick about how great he is, and he never gets any bad criticism, he is apparently perfect at what he dose. So if this doesn’t make him “The Best”, what makes a wrestler "The Best"?

 

[airvar]

Come on people, work with me. Only JGlass has given me a good reason why Punk isn't the best of all time.

If every time Punk dose something, we all jump online and start sucking his dick about how great he is, and he never gets any bad criticism, he is apparently perfect at what he dose. So if this doesn’t make him “The Best”, what makes a wrestler "The Best"?

I don't know if you follow American Football, but here is a great example of why CM Punk isn't the best- yet..

Terrell Davis had an amazing first 3 or 4 years in the NFL, he was probably one of the best running back's to ever debut in the NFL, and had an astounding first few years with Denver. Then he broke his Knee, and injury's mounted up, come a few years later and he is retired before the age of 30..

Even though he might have had the best 3 or 4 years, that injury will forever keep him out of the disscusion of "best NFL running backs ever" .. While he might have very well been the most talented back his shortened career just doesn't stack up when compared to others..


CM Punk is the same way right now, he is hands down probably the most talaneted superstar on the rooster, and the MVP of the WWE at the moment. He is good at pretty much everything, but also still very very early in his WWE Career.. Only a few year's ago he was still establishing himself as a main event talent.. He could be the best ever, but right now you just can't tell.. If he can hold up this level of consistant preformance, and do this well for the remainder of his career he will undoubtbly be in that disscussion. He will be thought of in that regard.

So while he may be the most talented person on the rooster right now, he is most definatly not the best ever. He is establishing himself, and could very well be the next "big" thing, but we have no possible way of telling that without him preforming at this level for the forseeable future..

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

JGlass, I agree with almost all the things you have said about Punk except for a few points where I think a bit differently.

CM Punk is pretty good in the ring, but not great. His matches generally involve quick strikes, maybe a few wrestling moves, and then the GTS. I much prefer seeing the tactical game of an Angle or HBK or the power game of an Undertaker than a striking contest involving CM Punk.

That is the way WWE likes to book him. I'm sure a lot of us here have seen Punk's pre-WWE workd and can vouch for the number of moves he has pulled off back then. Also how are moves a criteria to judge the greatest of all time? I know Punk has a long way to go but Punk, in my opinion, can produce great matches perhaps even greater than the likes of HBK and Kurt Angle have produced with the exact same moveset.

As for mic skills, there is a big split on where CM Punk stands on the mic. However, I think the majority of us can agree that he is most certainly not the best ever on the stick, and most of us would agree he's not even the best in the WWE. I'd at least put Cena, Triple H, Miz, and Edge above CM Punk, and probably a few more if I even tried to put some thought into it. Furthermore, to say he's better than Austin or The Rock is sheer insanity.

It is insane to compare Punk with either Austin and Rock but I feel he is certainly better than the other ones you have mentioned. I liked Edge's work when he was a part of a tag team but as a singles performer his mic skills have always been a bit overrated. And his work this year just proves my point. He has always managed to get good heat as a heel but I have always felt that that is more to do with how he has been booked rather than his mic skills.

Miz is terribly overrated on the mic. Sure he has cut a lot of good promos this year but almost all of those have been similar in content, in my opinion. He is just an arrogant heel and always points out that he is better than his opponent. Its surely not comparable to the way Punk questions Cena's morals or Hardy's flaws.

Cena is certainly very good with his serious stuff but as far as comedy goes, Cena falls a bit flat. Punk has shown a lot of potential in the comedy department as well. Triple H has surely cut great promos but there was a time when HHH was champion and began the show with a half hour promo. That was very boring to watch and I have also not liked his run in the second edition of DX a lot.

And can you imagine CM Punk ever becoming a legend of wrestling? Can you imagine talking to your friends about the greats of wrestling and saying, "Flair, Hogan, Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock, and CM Punk." Seriously, look at every man in that sentence prior to CM Punk, and what do they have in common? At on point they were not only the top names of the company, but they were household names. Hulk Hogan taught kids to take their vitamins and say their prayers, and Austin became the symbol of rebellion for Wrestling fans and non-Wrestling fans alike. CM Punk... encouraged kids to drink by portraying a sober lifestyle as evil? What has CM Punk accomplished in the WWE so far? Sure, he's been entertaining, but he hasn't nearly matched the success of the legends.

Now this is a very interesting point. Apart from Flair all the other guys were epic faces of their generation while Flair was obviously a very good heel. But the point is do you have to be a huge face to be even considered among the greatest superstars of all time? I do not think so as heels are just as important to the landscape of wrestling as faces. And even Flair is not considered as great as Hogan or Austin if you were to ask the common wrestling fan but I think that a sound arguement could be made that he was just as great as Hogan or Austin. Same deal with CM Punk. Imagine if he remains a heel till the end of his career and is a part of numerous great feuds during his career. Will you then pull out the same arguement that he was not as much of a cultural icon as Hogan or Austin?

Please note that these are just some points that I disagree with. On the whole I do agree that Punk is nowhere close to being considered as the greatest of all time as far as his current work is concerned. He might be there one day but on the current date he is not even close.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Come on people, work with me. Only JGlass has given me a good reason why Punk isn't the best of all time.

If every time Punk dose something, we all jump online and start sucking his dick about how great he is, and he never gets any bad criticism, he is apparently perfect at what he dose. So if this doesn’t make him “The Best”, what makes a wrestler "The Best"?

Well how many years has Punk had under his belt when it comes to working for a global organization. Negligible when you compare it with the other greats. How many successful main event feuds has he pulled off when compared to the other greats. Once again, negligible. His only feud on the main event level was against Jeff Hardy and he looks to be on the way to having a great feud with Cena. While his feud with Jeff Hardy was very good does it even compare to the likes of Hogan vs Andre or Austin vs Mcmahon. Simply put, NO. And therefore he cannot be considered the greatest ever.

 

[ilapierre]

Just cause CM Punk can work the mic in an era of no names who can't work a mic does not make him the best wrestler of all time or the best guy on the mic of all time. 2010 is not of all time. An era of 3.1 ratings is not of all time, and only 3.1 of an audience knows who CM Punk is. Nobody outside wrestling wants to know who he is because they flip through the channels, hear him, and keep flipping. That tells you something about the guy and his MVP-manship on RAW. He can be as good as Hogan, no one's gonna tune in to see some dipshit spouting pretentious crap. At least when Flair or Piper did it it served a purpose and people were watching. CM Punk can only draw flies.

To add to Tuffys list of wrestlers better than CM Punk I add: Billy Kidman, Michael Hayes, Bart and Billy Gun, Koko B Ware, 123 Kid, Brooklyn Brawler, Duke Drose, Doink the Clown, Crush, Santino, El Matador, Jim Powers, Glacier, Mortis, Andy Kaufman, and everyone better than these guys. So that puts CM Punk as one of the top 1000 wrestlers of all time, between 908-912.

 

[AlwaysHasBeen]

I think in an era where WWE's creative team drops the ball continuously and gives no talent any freedom to put their own creative spin or touch on their onscreen personas, CM Punk has managed to wriggle free of the backstage shackles everyone seems to be constrained to. Although it's hard to say "best of all time" because WWE is so formulaic nowadays that no one can let their fullest wrestling abilities shine, I feel Punk has definitely stood out amongst the rest of the WWE roster in terms of individuality. He also has an enigmatic quality about him that makes him very entertaining to watch. And he seems to actually treat angles as part of his reality and that makes wrestling worth watching when guys are actually invested in their current rivalries and not just going through the motions which many are accustomed to nowadays. I'm glad he's getting the limelight on RAW and just hope WWE creative makes him a CREDIBLE HEEL, and not John Cena's rag doll like everyone else.

 

[Prince of Phenomenal]

CM Punk isnt the best wrestler of all time and who ever says that obviously started watching wrestling two years ago. Punk is good on the mic and a good wrestler but he hasnt done enough to be in the conversation.

 

[MOExecution]

Now before I go on I have to advise everybody that you are talking to a HUGE CM Punk fan so the things I say might be in favor of the "Straight Edge Superstar".

Now I do believe CM Punk is one of the best to do it in the WWE and if you did not get that re-read it. He is one of the best to do it, but he isn't the best EVER to do it in the WWE. You have guys like; The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Undertaker, Bret Hart, and so on and so forth who are more arguable for being the best EVER than CM Punk is.

CM Punk what I like about him is the fact that he was not spoon fed anything in his career. He worked his way from the bottom all the way to the top from performing in Indie companies, Ring of Honor, making his debut with WWE's ECW, and soon becoming a World Champion in the biggest wrestling company EVER! CM Punk he is very good in the ring a match between CM Punk and Daniel Bryan could be a Match of the Decade candidate. CM Punk is great on the microphone he does not have that same robotic tone that the others have. He has a different gimmick from the super heroic babyfaces and the arrogant heels. He has a different look then everyone else as well. CM Punk is the total package in my opinion.

But the only problem I have with this question is The Best Wrestler Ever? Question. Yeah, CM Punk he is the total package, but I think what people forget is the fact that when you speak EVER you are talking about guys who have already been established; The Rock, Stone Cold, and Hulk Hogan for example. CM Punk's career even though he is a 2x World Champion, IC Champion, World Tag Team Champion, 2x Money in the Bank Winner, and Slammy Award Winners he cannot even compete with someone of The Rock's stature because to be honest it's not really fair. Now if you stated the question, "Best Wrestler EVER NOW!" then it could be arguable. I believe CM Punk is in the Top 10 in WWE in the current moment, but as great as Punk is definitely not the Best Wrestler Ever.

 

[Aberle4Life]

I think too many of you are taking this thread too seriously. OP was just really excited about Punk's performance on RAW, and how could you not be? He was incredible and more interesting than anyone has been on the show all year.

I can't speak for the OP I guess, but there really is no doubt that this topic is more a hope that Punk could be amongst the greatest than he actually is the greatest. No wrestler on the current roster of either RAW or Smackdown! will go down as the greatest ever (including the Undertaker, who Punk will never surpass). Punk will continue building himself to be a legitimate power in the wrestling world, but he'll never touch the top dogs like Austin and Hogan. It's goofy to ever think that.

Let's just let the Punk fans be excited! RAW was great last night and he was really the only reason it was.