Chyna was not influential

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by RIPbossman, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. RIPbossman

    RIPbossman Occasional Pre-Show

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    How influential do you feel Chyna was to WWE?

    Vince Russo recently said in a podcast that Chyna played a big role in the evolution of women’s wrestling, and many people claim Chyna greatly influenced WWE. It is my opinion that Chyna did none of those things.

    Aside from Nicole Bass, who accomplished little in wrestling, Chyna was the most muscular woman ever in WWE. She was in great shape and it looked believable when male wrestlers sold her offense. This evolved into her wrestling competitive matches against male wrestlers and she was over with the crowd to the point that she was given the Intercontinental Championship. And she was a credible, believable champion.

    However, all of that does not make her influential. To be influential, she would have to make a lasting change in the product. Aside from Nicole Bass, who wasn’t employed long by WWE, WWE did not go out and hire any female bodybuilders. Some women were noticeably more muscular, like Jazz, Beth Phoenix and Ronda Rousey, and occasionally had male wrestlers sell their offense. But it’s still extremely out of the ordinary for that to happen in WWE, and they didn’t regularly have competitive matches against men. Chyna is still the only female Intercontinental Champion. To be fair, Jacqueline did win the Cruiser Weight title, but again, that was an extremely rare occurrence.

    During most of the Attitude Era the Women’s Title was a joke. Sable, The Kat, elderly Fabulous Moolah and Debra were all champ at some point. But near the end of 2000 the last 2 Women’s Champs were Lita and Ivory, 2 real women’s wrestlers (and 2 hall of famers). It appeared the division was on the path to a higher level of seriousness before Ivory started feuding with Chyna, and dropped the title to her at WrestleMania 17. About 2 months later Chyna was taken off television (due to the backstage revelation of the Triple H/Stephanie affair, which she was unfairly punished for) and her last match occurred at Judgement Day against Lita. The Women’s Title wasn’t defended for months until Trish Stratus won the vacant title in late 2001. Again, there were 2 credible women’s champs right before Chyna, and she didn’t do enough with the title to really make a lasting impact. The fact that WWE waited several months before crowning a new champion shows that the Women’s Division was not in a significantly better place after Chyna won the title. That’s not an influence on the product.



    Chyna was a true star In WWE, but she was not influential and she did not play a big role in the evolution of Women’s Wrestling.
     
    #1 RIPbossman, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  2. HeyYo

    HeyYo Occasional Pre-Show

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    You are an idiot’s idiot. You don’t think women like Charlotte Flair, Becky Lynch and Beth Phoenix were influenced?
     
  3. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Personal feelings aside, i can see why some peoples would think she was a influence. Was she a great wrestler, No. Did she get opportunities because of her size, Yes. But in the end, it doesn'T really matter. She did open doors for others that wouldn't have been open if she didn't show up. The thing is with Chyna is that she was at the right place at the right time. We wouldn't be talking about her at all if she started in this era of wrestling instead of the attitude era because even the worst wrestler in the women's division could wrestled circle around her.

    Fans like to crap on Nia jax for being a dangerous worker in today'S WWE, but multiply that by 10 and that was Chyna in a nutshell. She was a really dangerous worker, a lot of guys didn't really want to work with her and when they put her in the women's division, she didn'T want to wrestled with the others girls and was very sloppy with them.

    In the end, she probably be influential to some of today'S performers but she not in the same league as Mae young, Moolah and Alundra Blayze as far as wrestlers that the current generation have been influence by.
     
  4. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    I get the OP's sentiment but I see three groups that are somewhat influenced by Chyna:

    1) Young girls who watched her dominate at times. Maybe some girls who are not classically pretty but somehow want to entertain.

    2) Fans who bought in to her hype and struggled with the Divas Search Era.

    3) As ironic and hypocritical as this sounds; Triple H and Steph. They are calling a lot of shots right now. Triple H must recognize what Chyna did to help his career and how women can be a larger part of the show than what Vince was putting out during the Divas Search Era.

    3a) The creative mind behind WCW's Asia (sp?)
    People who were not influenced by Chyna:

    1) Vince

    2) Pseudo wrestling analysts on wrestling internet forums
     
    #4 George Steele's Barber, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  5. Aquaman6686

    Aquaman6686 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Chyna was never very good, but she influenced many later wrestlers who vastly surpassed her, so in an indirect way, she was extremely influential.
     
  6. Vanilla Midget

    Vanilla Midget Dull and Small

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    I feel like the OP is on some kind of semantics war. How is Chyna "a star" but not "an influence." It would be strange to be famous and not have any kind of affect on anyone whatsoever.

    Andre the Giant was pushed due to his size. Andre was also special though and had true charisma. A lot of what got Chyna pushed was her size and the fact she was believable fighting men. It's no wonder Andre was billed as the 8th Wonder of the World, and Chyna the 9th.

    Chyna was one of the only women in the Attitude Era presented as a fighter. While other women were presented as essentially strippers and divas while Jerry Lawler orgasmed shouting "puppies," Chyna was Triple H's bodyguard and was winning Intercontinental titles.

    If that isn't the groundwork for the diva's division becoming the women's, I'm not sure what it.

    Yeah, you could make the argument that she wouldn't have received her spot without her size. You could say the same thing about a lot of wrestlers.

    If Chyna hadn't pursued her career in pornography after wrestling, we would more than likely hear and see a lot more mentions of her from today's women.
     
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  7. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    She was more over than 80% of the male roster despite not having giant tits and bleached blonde hair. All it took for a woman to be over in that time period was sex appeal, but Chyna got over based on her legitimacy. Probably the first woman since Moolah to do it to that extent. If you think the majority of women in wrestling today weren't influenced by Chyna, then you don't know what influential means.

    I can almost guarantee they were more influenced by Chyna than they were Sable or Sunny...
     
  8. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    One of my biggest problem i had with Chyna back then and even today was that she only was over because of all the cosmetic changes she made the her appearance. How much money did Vince pay in cosmetic surgery before she was actually able to get over with the fans. She was suppose to a role model for young women's during that era by pretty much sending the message that you have to love yourself as you are and she wasn'T even able to do that. Yeah i do think she was influential in some way, especially to the bigger girls but at the same time if you think that she got over just by what she did in ring, you are probably delusional because her looks played a big part of her getting over and getting push the way she did. For god sake, she pose for Playboy twice during her run.

    The funny thing is, Not a lot of Women's in today's wrestling scene name her as a inspiration. They will name her as a pioneer but when you really ask them who influence them, Mae young comes up a lot, Moolah comes up a lot, Alundra Blayze comes up a lot, Chyna doesn't has much.

    She was a performer that was there at the right time and pretty much lucked out with some of the opportunities she got ( She owes a big thanks to Jeff Jarrett for going to WCW because she wasn't schedule to win the ic belt at the time but because they needed jeff to drop the belt before he left, they gave it to her) but in the end, for somebody that really wasn't that great at wrestling and even her trainer really regretted training her, she did more for the business then any other women's and i get why some would think that she influence other performers.
     
  9. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    1. Lol at "she was only over because of all the cosmetic changes." She was over before the tit-job and chin reduction and whatever the hell else she had done. You won't admit it, but it's the truth and anybody who watched that era recently would have no choice but to agree.

    2. How in the hell was Chyna supposed to be a role model for young woman? Is that supposed to be a joke? As far as I can remember, there was never an angle surrounding Chyna that had anything to do with loving who you are as you are, or any of that garbage. I don't think anybody in their right mind would claim Chyna was supposed to be any kind of role model, at least not at the height of her career.

    3. I never said she was over because of her ring-work. I said she didn't have to strip practically naked every time she went out there just to get a pop. There were moments where she used sexuality, but, unlike Sable, Sunny, and basically any woman of that era, that wasn't what her persona was based off of. I also never said her look wasn't a big reason why she was over. I said she didn't have to strip practically naked to get a pop. Reading comprehension is key.

    4. And yeah she posed for playboy. Once in 2000, when she was pretty much finished with the company and once in 02, when she was finished with the company. That was never part of her early character at the time when she was actually over.

    Yeah, because Chyna's name is so open for discussion in WWE nowadays. Don't be deliberately obtuse. She's been off-limits to WWE discussion since she left the company. And lol at Moolah and Mae. As if any current woman wrestling today can even remember when they were active competitors. Give me a break with this stuff, you can't honestly believe what you're saying.

    Jesus. So you openly admit that she did more for the business than any other women- you literally say she did more for the business than ANY OTHER WOMAN, but still say you don't think she was very influential. I don't care either way but it seems like you don't even know what you're trying to argue half the time. It's dumb.
     
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  10. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    First of all, for the most part i was agreeing with you on her but i have to point out a few thing that you have wrong


    1. She was over when they started to put her in the ring fighting guys and that was after all the cosmetics surgery and everybody that followed the company during that period know that.

    2. Go rewatch old chyna promo in her prime or just the fitness tape wwe release, she always use thoses exact word in her promo, that was the would point of her character to be a role model.

    But i'm man enough to admit when i've made a mistake, yes, i wrote that she did more for the business then any other women, that's my bad, i should read back my comment before posting it. That wasn't really what i wanted to write. She did some stuff to help advance the women's division and should be regarded as a influence, not at the level of a mae young, moolah or madusa but maybe at the level of a trish stratus or lita. She got over because she had a great team of writers behind her helping her character grow and was paired with guys that could help her get over.

    As far as women's not talking about chyna, i'm talking about when they don't do wwe regulate interview, outside of the wwe machine, not a lot of women's talk about chyna as a influence on their career, most women's wrestlers use either mae young, madusa, moolah, trish or lita as influence more then chyna.

    Again not disagreeing with you, chyna made a impact in wwe and is a influence in the wrestling business but not as big as some fans thing she was.
     
  11. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

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    Chyna most definitely influenced the current women stars, she was the first to be seen as equal to the men and in todays society that's what #metoo and all the rest of the political hype is all about, you think they'd even be talking about a women match main eventing WrestleMania this year if Chyna handnt won a mens championship or competed in the Royal Rumble way back in the day? Aludra Blayse was good but the women division remained a joke under her tenure, Chyna was a huge step in taking the women seriously as active competitors in the WWE, after her Trish and Lita picked up that ball and made even more strides but all other women from that era were purely bra and pantie, mud wrestling attractions, not seen as wrestlers in the same sense that they are seen today
     
  12. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    This is real easy to debunk. Chyna broke the "glass ceiling" so to speak. Women's wrestling existed before Chyna but they were often viewed as inferior to their male counterparts. Sherri Martel was a great women's wrestler but to make any money in the business she had to become a valet. Alundra Blayze aka Madusa was probably the most accomplished women's wrestler before Chyna but the reality is there was a ceiling. She would not come close to being a main event or cross over star like her male counter parts. Enter Chyna.

    Chyna PROVED that women could be credible in ring performers and get over with the fans without Bra and Panty matches. We all know Sable, the Kat, and Debra were jokes. Chyna was never "Women's Champion" for that reason. It was a joke belt. They would never get in the ring with Chyna and make it believable. For Chyna to elevate "Women's wrestling" she had to cross over to the male side first and FORCE people to take her seriously as a performer and she did that.

    By Chyna elevating herself and earning credibility in turn she made the Women's division more credible as a result when she went on to challenge for the Women's title. Chyna was the bridge between the Sunny's and Sable's of the world and the Lita's, Ivory's and ultimately the Trish's of the world, Chyna made Women's wrestling more than just T and A.
     
  13. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Dark Match Jobber

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    Anybody who says Chyna was not influential in the business is a goof in my opinion, and doesn't know much of the history of WWE. Paint this picture, early 1997, some mid-carder named Helmsley brought in a female "bodyguard" and it instantly clicked. Made who we now know as Triple H a legit player based merely on her presence. Who knows how Trips career would have turned out had he not gotten over because of Chyna. Also, first woman in a Rumble. First woman to be #1 contender for the Heavyweight Title late summer 1999. Former IC Champ with the Jarrett/Jericho feuds. OG Member of D-X. A LEGIT GAME CHANGER. (like that play on words.) To say she wasn't influential is either ignorance or hating at it's finest.
     
  14. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Dark Match Jobber

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    Wow. Way off base, Mr. Mod. Go back and watch the old Raws on the network. Nor only was Chyna instantly over, but she's the reason above all else that Triple H was elevated to an actual player in the hierarchy of the business. She added an instant layer to his dynamic that clicked and worked instantly. If you watch HHH when he was mid-card IC Champ feuding with Marc Mero & Rocky Maivia, doing the valet thing, it was stale. Insert his new female "bodyguard/enforcer" Chyna, and he, or I shpuld say THEY, became a star quality, relevant act in the business. The cosmetic beauty changes you speak of didn't happen until like the 1999 playboy crap, and she'd been a star for 2 years at that point already.
     
  15. Kyle9791

    Kyle9791 New Member

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    Let me guess Becky is influential?
     

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