Christmas Holliday Becoming Offensive now

[LSN80]

LSN80

No actually it’s not contradiction. I don’t think you know what Contradiction means. I’m talking about people that are trying to change our custom, not those that prefer to say “Happy Holidays” over “Merry Christmas” these are 2 different things..

Whether you'll admit it or not, your first post stated one thing, with subsequent posts stating another. That's what we like to call a contradiction. If that was truly what you were saying, you did a poor job of saying so. Saying that people should "leave the country" if they dont "like our customs" is what you said. It was later that you specified anything.

Yes they are trying to change our custom by preventing us by saying “Merry Christmas”. Our custom has always been to say “Merry Christmas” or “Christmas Tree” now we have to say “Happy Holliday’s” or “Holliday Tree” whether you like it or not that is changing our custom and trying to prevent us from saying what we would normally say..

Have to? I must have missed that memo! Gosh, and I say Christmas Tree and Merry Christmas every day! Shame on me!

The point is, we don't HAVE to say one thing, or the other. Freedom of Speech allows us the ability to choose which one we use. In the era of being politically correct, schools in some areas have adopted more disambiguous terms(such as "Happy Holidays or Holiday Tree"), that teachers use and that does in a sense spit on our freedom. But your posts made it sound like we had foreign invaders who were coming in trying to overall our PERSONAL statements on a day to day basis, and they should go back to where they came from. Almost every person who responded read your first post the EXACT same way.

No we don’t have the freedom to say what we want that is what you are not understanding or comprehending. If we had the freedom to say what ever we want, then there would be no issues with “Christmas Tree” or “Merry Christmas”.

Just because an issue arises doesnt undermine the freedom that you and i both have. Whens the last time someone has stopped you from saying "Christmas Tree" or "Merry Christmas"? There's a difference between an issue arising and stomping on a custom. You obviously fail to recognize the difference.

I’m a ignorant unreasonable jackass? Lmao

I do believe that's what I said.

The fact is that if saying “Happy Hollidays” shouldn’t be offensive then neither should someone that says “Merry Christmas” because it’s not being said in a offensive matter. What don’t you comprehend about that?

Its NOT offensive. Thats what Ive been saying FROM MY FIRST POST. You were the indignant jackass who insisted I had a problem with people saying "Merry Christmas", when its the very practice that I USE. The fact that some people DON'T like the idea of saying Merry Christmas isn't offensive either. Its their custom, tradition, and right. Did you miss the part when I said my wife says "Merry X-Mas" rather then "Merry Christmas"?

Ive defended my position quite well, while you've flip flopped your position by each post. That's a contradiction, my friend. Merry Christmas, sincerely.

Also insulting me because you can’t defend yourself no more does not make your opinion more right then mine.

No, defending my points and pointing out the flaws in yours does.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

The Government is supposed to be religiously neutral, but they're anything but. Bush was one of the worst offenders when it came to the separation of church and state, and while Obama is a bit better, he's still pretty bad.

Which is why it's so hypocritical of them to make such rules when they break them themselves.

When has there ever been a violation of church and state? I'm not patronizing you, really, I can't recall the last time it's happened within the federal government.

So why do we allow Muslims time to pray in public school, but we can't say Merry Christmas in the same public school, hypocritical much?

Students are allowed to pray in school. They're also allowed to say "Merry Christmas." Teachers and staff aren't allowed to force children to pray or say "Merry Christmas," and states very on whether or not teachers are allowed to say things.

 

[Arkham Noir]

I believe that the whole "Merry Christmas" controversy is an example of people taking political correctness to an absurd level. We're so worried about offending people that we've taken something that's relatively harmless and is actually intended with good will and made it unnecessarily dramatic.

If I see someone that I don't know and this someone says Merry Christmas, then I'm gonna say it right back. Sometimes, I'll say the same things in passing to other people. Now, I can't tell whether or not a person celebrates Christmas or believes in Christmas just by looking at them. Last I heard, that was called profiling. I went to college with a guy from Egypt and he's a devout Christian rather than a Muslim. Let's be honest, most people would have assumed that he was Muslim based upon his home country. It's not intended as being offensive, but it's profiling all the same.

I think if someone is legitimately offended by someone simply telling them "Merry Christmas" then they need to pull the stick out of their ass and get a fuckin' life. To me, it's a means of being polite and wishing someone well if nothing else. If I were an atheist and someone said "God bless you", I wouldn't take that as an offense. After all, it's just someone wishing you well and what's wrong with that?

If someone wants to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, it's no big deal. However, if someone just says Merry Christmas and someone has a problem with it, then I honestly believe that the problem lies with the person that's "offended". If we've gotten to the point where a simple phrase intended to wish happiness, good cheer and prosperity during a certain time of the year is enough to set people off then there's no hope left for anything.

This sums up my opinion.

As much as we should honor people's different cultures, come on, it is just a simple greeting. If someone walks up to me and says happy Kwanza or happy whatever, I'm not going to fucking demand that they wish me something more nutural. I have just as much right to wish them Merry Christmas as they do to not be wished it because they don't believe in it.

People need to relax a little bit. I'm all for respecting different people's custom's, but they have to respect mine as well.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

After reading all this, it made me realize. Do you guys all know what we're arguing over? Do you guys realize that the main reason this shit has been going on for as long as it has is for a fricken JOLLY GOOD HOLIDAY?!

The day that we, the people of the Earth, even start to argue over a simple phrase that is said to bring happiness and comfort to your heart is the day that this world has a horrible future ahead of themselves.

It's a fucking holiday for crying outloud. It's the time for everyone to be nice to each other. It's the holiday where we give and feel good about it. In the world of today, such a thing is rarely the case; but it's this time of year that all boundaries are broken.

__________________


WWEFAN_100: You preach that our freedom to say "Merry Christmas" is being taken away. It's not. The fact that the schools are requiring you to say "Holidays" instead is above all else, just showing respect.

But here's the part that you don't seem to understand. Or rather, are too arrogant to let it go through your head. Does it really fucking matter if "Happy Holidays" is said instead of "Merry Christmas"?! The fact of the matter is, it's not. At the end of the day, the term is only used to wish someone a happy time for that part of the year. It should not matter if we say "Happy Holidays"; it should not matter if we say "Merry Christmas"; hell, it shouldn't matter if we say Happy Kwanza"---they are nothing more than phrases used to express the joy of the season.

With that said, behind the horrible context that you put your words in, I can understand your frustration over us being restricted from saying Merry Christmas. However, when you started this thread, you made it sound as if you HATED that we weren't allowed to say Merry Christmas anymore and that those who didn't want to say Merry Christmas should just leave the country because Merry Christmas is the corect term. The difference between our contry and other countries is that other countries ARE religious countries. On the other hand, we ARE NOT. Our country is religious free; therefore, we are allowed to choose whatever religion we want and follow it to whatever extent we choose. But are other countries able to do this? No, I think not. That is why, to respect people's respective religion, we say the term "Happy Holidays" rather than just "Merry Christmas."

RESPECT. That's all it is. RESPECT. Though, to the same time, I think you're a fool. It's just a phrase. Nothing more...and nothing less...Happy Holidays is reallly no different than Merry Christmas, just as they are no different than "Happy Hanukkah" or Happy Kwanza." You are allowed to say what you wish and no one is stopping you. If businesses, schools, stores--if they are requiring you to say "Happy Holidays", so what? It's just a god-damn phrase. Get the fuck over it.

_____________________

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter what anyone says. Because in the end, it's all to wish someone the best of happiness during this time of year. And while I can understand why people wold get frustrated over the "restrictions" that have been place on us, I can also understand the concept of mutual respect. The term "Happy Holidays" was made to show mutual respect for people's respective beliefs. Sure, they're probably being enforced a bit too much, but c'mon, it's a pharse. Who the fuck cares so long as you're wished a jolly good time.

So now, in closing:

Spoiler

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Spoiler

HAPPY KWANZA!

Spoiler

HAPPY HANAKKAH!

Spoiler

AND BEST OF ALL...

Spoiler

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

 

[WWEFAN_100]

LSN80

No actually it didn’t. Not my fault that your making the assumptions and didn’t ask me what I meant first. The fact is that I stated that “If people don’t like our customs in our country then they don’t have to stay here, they can leave”. They should leave, they knew what our custom before they came to our country did they not? Or are they stupid?

Again if you don’t know what it is being said, ask that person what they mean before making assumptions.

The point is that if we didn’t have too they wouldn’t be trying to prevent us from stating “Merry Christmas” and “Holliday Tree” DUH!

Great Freedom of speech, so if this so called freedom of speech your liking to preach why try and prevent us from saying “Merry Christmas” or “Christmas Tree” again whether you like it or not they are trying to prevent us from stating such things.

Also the freedom is being taken away when we are being prevented from saying such things which they are trying to do.

Lmao you’re a idiot. Cause I know what was said and I know what I said and I said I have no freaken issue with saying “Happy Holliday” my issue is with preventing us from saying “Merry Christmas” but I know your slow.

 

[WWEFAN_100]

After reading all this, it made me realize. Do you guys all know what we're arguing over? Do you guys realize that the main reason this shit has been going on for as long as it has is for a fricken JOLLY GOOD HOLIDAY?!

The day that we, the people of the Earth, even start to argue over a simple phrase that is said to bring happiness and comfort to your heart is the day that this world has a horrible future ahead of themselves.

It's a fucking holiday for crying outloud. It's the time for everyone to be nice to each other. It's the holiday where we give and feel good about it. In the world of today, such a thing is rarely the case; but it's this time of year that all boundaries are broken.

__________________


WWEFAN_100: You preach that our freedom to say "Merry Christmas" is being taken away. It's not. The fact that the schools are requiring you to say "Holidays" instead is above all else, just showing respect.

But here's the part that you don't seem to understand. Or rather, are too arrogant to let it go through your head. Does it really fucking matter if "Happy Holidays" is said instead of "Merry Christmas"?! The fact of the matter is, it's not. At the end of the day, the term is only used to wish someone a happy time for that part of the year. It should not matter if we say "Happy Holidays"; it should not matter if we say "Merry Christmas"; hell, it shouldn't matter if we say Happy Kwanza"---they are nothing more than phrases used to express the joy of the season.

With that said, behind the horrible context that you put your words in, I can understand your frustration over us being restricted from saying Merry Christmas. However, when you started this thread, you made it sound as if you HATED that we weren't allowed to say Merry Christmas anymore and that those who didn't want to say Merry Christmas should just leave the country because Merry Christmas is the corect term. The difference between our contry and other countries is that other countries ARE religious countries. On the other hand, we ARE NOT. Our country is religious free; therefore, we are allowed to choose whatever religion we want and follow it to whatever extent we choose. But are other countries able to do this? No, I think not. That is why, to respect people's respective religion, we say the term "Happy Holidays" rather than just "Merry Christmas."

RESPECT. That's all it is. RESPECT. Though, to the same time, I think you're a fool. It's just a phrase. Nothing more...and nothing less...Happy Holidays is reallly no different than Merry Christmas, just as they are no different than "Happy Hanukkah" or Happy Kwanza." You are allowed to say what you wish and no one is stopping you. If businesses, schools, stores--if they are requiring you to say "Happy Holidays", so what? It's just a god-damn phrase. Get the fuck over it.

_____________________

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter what anyone says. Because in the end, it's all to wish someone the best of happiness during this time of year. And while I can understand why people wold get frustrated over the "restrictions" that have been place on us, I can also understand the concept of mutual respect. The term "Happy Holidays" was made to show mutual respect for people's respective beliefs. Sure, they're probably being enforced a bit too much, but c'mon, it's a pharse. Who the fuck cares so long as you're wished a jolly good time.

So now, in closing:

Spoiler

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Spoiler

HAPPY KWANZA!

Spoiler

HAPPY HANAKKAH!

Spoiler

AND BEST OF ALL...

Spoiler

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

In the same sense does it really matter if someone says "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holliday"?

Teh argument here is that they are trying to prevent us from saying certain things because it might "offend babies" who takes things way to seriously.

So it's ok for people to be offensive about saying "merry Christmas" but we are idiots for being pissed off for saying "Happy holliday" ya double standards.

My point everyone should be able to say what ever they feel like saying that is freedom.

Also please point out to me where I said I had a issue with saying "Happy Holliday" however my issue is that I want it to be my CHOICE, I don't want to be forced to say adn that is what is happening when they are preventing us from saying "Merry Christmas".

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

When has there ever been a violation of church and state? I'm not patronizing you, really, I can't recall the last time it's happened within the federal government.

Bush referenced Jesus Christ/God in almost all of his speeches, Obama does the same thing.

I don't want Jesus to be anywhere near the government, speeches, references or anything like that. It's all over the campaign trail as well, grabbing votes in the south by preaching your love for Jesus should not be allowed, and it happens all the time. What does Jesus have to do with our current economy? NOTHING.

These should all be violations, but there not. It is technically a violation of church and state, one shouldn't effect the other, but they do.

Students are allowed to pray in school. They're also allowed to say "Merry Christmas." Teachers and staff aren't allowed to force children to pray or say "Merry Christmas," and states very on whether or not teachers are allowed to say things.

If Bush and Obama are allowed to thank Jesus and praise him for their success than some lonely teacher should be able to wish their student a Merry Christmas. It hypocritical otherwise, I don't care either way, all I'm saying is they need to choose what side of the fence their really on.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Bush referenced Jesus Christ/God in almost all of his speeches, Obama does the same thing.

I don't want Jesus to be anywhere near the government, speeches, references or anything like that. It's all over the campaign trail as well, grabbing votes in the south by preaching your love for Jesus should not be allowed, and it happens all the time. What does Jesus have to do with our current economy? NOTHING.

These should all be violations, but there not. It is technically a violation of church and state, one shouldn't effect the other, but they do.

Those aren't violations, though. Limiting these men of their own personal religions would be violations of THEIR first amendment rights. However, these guys aren't incorporating their religions into law. That's what the first amendment is. "Congress shall make no law..." etc.

If Bush and Obama are allowed to thank Jesus and praise him for their success than some lonely teacher should be able to wish their student a Merry Christmas. It hypocritical otherwise, I don't care either way, all I'm saying is they need to choose what side of the fence their really on.

I'm pretty sure teachers ARE allowed to say "Merry Christmas" for the most part. They just can't make students participate in Christmas-related activities, like Secret Santa and stuff like that, even if they let students opt-out of it.

 

[LSN80]

LSN80

No actually it didn’t. Not my fault that your making the assumptions and didn’t ask me what I meant first. The fact is that I stated that “If people don’t like our customs in our country then they don’t have to stay here, they can leave”. They should leave, they knew what our custom before they came to our country did they not? Or are they stupid?

I didn't assume anything. I read your posts, and I responded. I took nothing you said out of context, and you confirmed that I was spot on with what I was saying when you make the contextual argument that because people don't like or are offended by ONE tradition of saying "Merry Christmas", they should leave our country? As Ive stated several times, my wife doesn't like saying Merry Christmas. She wasn't born in the United States. Should she leave?

Again if you don’t know what it is being said, ask that person what they mean before making assumptions.

Again, I made no assumptions. I read what you wrote about "our freedoms being taken away" and your ideas on people who dislike saying "Merry Christmas" should "leave the country." I got it, loud and clear.

The point is that if we didn’t have too they wouldn’t be trying to prevent us from stating “Merry Christmas” and “Holliday Tree” DUH!

Who the hell is they? You've yet to specify that, and Ive asked you several times. Foreigners who have come to live in this country? Or our government? Part of having a debate is clarity. Display some.

Great Freedom of speech, so if this so called freedom of speech your liking to preach why try and prevent us from saying “Merry Christmas” or “Christmas Tree” again whether you like it or not they are trying to prevent us from stating such things.

Who is they? You stated in your opening post this:

We can’t say Christmas Tree anymore, we have to say Holliday tree.

When did that become the case? I say Christmas tree every day!

You also added this gem:

Why is it that an immigrant to this country has more rights than a native indian or inuit?

They don't. They have to go through citizenship and spend time in the United States before they're granted the rights that come with being a US citizen. If they don't LIKE saying "Merry Christmas", that doesn't mean it's suddenly become law that prevents it from being said. Someone not liking it when you said "Merry Christmas" to them is not trampling on your right to say it. Its their own personal opinion, something you need to respect, just as you want them to respect yours.

Also the freedom is being taken away when we are being prevented from saying such things which they are trying to do.

By who? When has the right to say the things you want to say ever been taken away. Merry Christmas. My wife is decorating the Christmas tree. I just said both. I feel free as ever.

Cause I know what was said and I know what I said and I said I have no freaken issue with saying “Happy Holliday” my issue is with preventing us from saying “Merry Christmas

”

And noone is preventing you from saying Merry Christmas. Its still you unalienable right. Im sorry dude, but everyone is laughing at you as you've brought a plastic spoon to our gunfight..

But I know your slow.

You know? So since you know me so well, you must know I have a master's degree in psychology and run my own mental health agency. But you knew that already, because you know me so well.... Seriously, man, let it rest. Merry Christmas.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Those aren't violations, though. Limiting these men of their own personal religions would be violations of THEIR first amendment. However, these guys aren't incorporating their religions into law. That's what the first amendment is. "Congress shall make no law..." etc.

Bush consulted Jesus on everything he did, I'm pretty sure that's downright STUPID, and shouldn't be allowed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131191,00.html

I'm pretty sure teachers ARE allowed to say "Merry Christmas" for the most part. They just can't make students participate in Christmas-related activities, like Secret Santa and stuff like that, even if they let students opt-out of it.

Let student's opt out and make up their own mind, kids have never had a problem getting free gifts and participating in Christmas events before. It's the parents forcing their views onto their children.

In the end who really cares if a little jewish kid got a christmas present in class. That little jewish kid only cares he got a free gift, he doesn't care that it wasn't a chanukah present, he's just happy to get a gift.

If anything it helps them learn the culture of the majority of Americans, and a little culture never hurt anyone.

 

[WWEFAN_100]

LSN80

Yes you actually assumed something. Again if your wife does not like saying Merry Christmas that’s fine that’s her choice for the 10000000 0times until you get this through your thick skull that is not the argument that we are all talking about here. We are talking about those that are trying to change our custom and that was clear on the first post. Not my fault you choose to read what you want to read and not what actually is being said.

Like I said, watch the news, this has been a big thing for a while now.. If you don’t’ watch the news don’t act like it isn’t happen when I’m not the only one in this thread knowing what is going on around here.

This is why you have no idea what we are talking about.

This is aobut those that don’t say it but want to prevent us from saying it. Has nothing to do with your wife or the fact atht she does not say it. Your making this way to personal.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Bush consulted Jesus on everything he did, I'm pretty sure that's downright STUPID, and shouldn't be allowed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131191,00.html

You're right, he was an absolute moron, but I'm not going to knock him for taking advantage of his first amendment rights and practicing his own religion, even if it was in front of the entire country. He didn't entice anyone to convert to Christianity, and he never incorporated religious teachings into law.

It's one of the main reasons abortion is still legal. Nobody can think of a valid reason to ban it except for their personal religious views. All they really have left is, "But it's a human life!"

Let student's opt out and make up their own mind, kids have never had a problem getting free gifts and participating in Christmas events before. It's the parents forcing their views onto their children.

In the end who really cares if a little jewish kid got a christmas present in class. That little jewish kid only cares he got a free gift, he doesn't care that it wasn't a chanukah present, he's just happy to get a gift.

If anything it helps them learn the culture of the majority of Americans, and a little culture never hurt anyone.

You're completely right, but the parents have a right to raise their child how they see fit. You can't take that right away from the parents if they choose to raise their children to a certain religion.

Believe me, I'm all for letting children think for themselves, but I'm really not down with Christmas being shoved in their faces by teachers and enticed to "make the decision" to be a Christian simply because they like free stuff in class. You don't think people would try to indoctrinate children if they were legally allowed to do so? That's why we have these laws, to protect the children and their parents by proxy. There are some fucked up people out there, man. It's why the parents are responsible for you until you're 18.

If everything really was as black and white as "it exposes children to other cultures so it's the best thing," then I'd whole heartedly agree with you. But until then, I'm going to have to trust a parent more than I trust someone who barely knows your student, whose sole job is to provide knowledge.

 

[WWEFAN_100]

Superthrust Mozzarella

You right on that. I do agree with you that we should allow parents to raise there child however they want but isn't that what we are doing when in a catholic school we are handing out presents and stuff...

If a parent does not want there child to be raised in a catholic way then why put them in a catholic school?

Another point I want to make is that we have "Religion" courses and classes where we learn all types of different cultures and religions.

What going to happen when they start talking about our custom and traditions for the christmas hollidays. Is that going to be prevented from being talked about as well?

Saying "Christmas Tree" and "Holliday Tree" is not alot of our custom.

As a Catholic, we celebrate Christmas and say "Merry Christmas" and "Christmas Tree" it's part of who we are and what we believe in.

Our religion isn't being respected either.

If we are being prevented from saying certain things because it's going to offend someone.

What's next?

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Superthrust MozzarellaYou right on that. I do agree with you that we should allow parents to raise there child however they want but isn't that what we are doing when in a catholic school we are handing out presents and stuff...

If a parent does not want there child to be raised in a catholic way then why put them in a catholic school?

...I'm going to let you figure this one out on your own.

Another point I want to make is that we have "Religion" courses and classes where we learn all types of different cultures and religions.

Because religion classes are not "preach to students to get them to convert" classes. Those are actually learning about the cultures and histories attributed to different religions. And you don't get those until advanced classes in high school or college.

What going to happen when they start talking about our custom and traditions for the christmas hollidays. Is that going to be prevented from being talked about as well?

Saying "Christmas Tree" and "Holliday Tree" is not alot of our custom.

As a Catholic, we celebrate Christmas and say "Merry Christmas" and "Christmas Tree" it's part of who we are and what we believe in.

Our religion isn't being respected either.

People aren't required to respect your religion in particular over others.

If we are being prevented from saying certain things because it's going to offend someone.

What's next?

You're not being prevented from saying anything. Period.

 

[WWEFAN_100]

Great if we are not being prevented from saying "Merry Christmas' then there should be no issues regarding who says it.

Saying "Merry Christmas" isn't converting them either lol

Do these kids even know what 'Convert" means?

No they aren't but if they watn there religion to be respected it's a 2 way street.

 

[Uncle Chester]

Christmas hac become so superficial and commercialised, the religious context in the 'merry christmas' greeting is dead. It's become exactly like saying happy new year, basically a universal greeting devoid of christian agenda.