Championship Match: (3) Shawn Michaels vs. (11) Brock Lesnar

[klunderbunker]

Throughout the Championship Region I have voted for whose spouse/significant other I found to be more attractive. It has been quite hard (pun intended) at times but thanks to an old playboy and an image of Sable kissing Tori Wilson she has given her man the edge in each battle.

Sable over the Nitro Girl. A Vote for Sable is a Vote for Brock.

I'll take a Nitro Girls reunion, which includes Stacy Keibler, over Sable any day.

As for why you all should vote for Shawn, I'll present you with this.

Both guys left on long hiatuses during their careers. Let's compare those two for a second.

Shawn left because he broke his back. He went out putting Austin over to usher in the new generation in an underrated match.

Brock left because he was offered more money to do something else. That's fine, but think back to the last match of his first run. If there has been a bigger disaster of a big match at Wrestlemania, I've never seen it. Lesnar (and Goldberg) didn't put in any effort whatsoever and basically laughed at us for paying our money to see their match.

I'm going to vote for the guy who left because of an injury and still put on a good match as opposed to someone who left for money and screwed the fans over by putting in zero effort.

 

[klunderbunker]

On that night, yes,





On that night, yes.

So you're saying that one night, a guy who has no business beating someone can get lucky and brag about it forever.

No wonder people compare Shawn and Jericho so often.

But that's my point - HBK doesn't do lucky. His specialty is overcoming odds - he isn't having to do that here.

Again, beating Brock Lesnar is ALWAYS overcoming the odds.

Not quite, but the fact that he isn't coming in with no chance of winning goes against the guy who took placing Ricky Morton to new heights.

You've lost me somewhere. Shawn always come in with the slightest chance of winning. I'm really not sure what you're talking about here. Not saying it's stupid/wrong but that I really don't understand what you're saying.

I agree completely but, as I said in my first post, I set my stall out in the opening of this 'one night' to follow a kayfabe narrative and it's my belief that Lesnar would beat HBK from the way the WZT has panned out this year.

That would beunlike before when Shawn was voted over Lesnar in a match with nothing coming in right?

 

[Alastor]

If you have the slightest bit of respect for the themes, rules, and precedent from earlier rounds from this tournament you cast your vote for Brock Lesnar. Unfortunately for Lesnar supporters that means nothing to me or most anyone else who votes here. I like story over everything and the most compelling story that can still be squeezed out of this story is Michaels upsetting Brock for the win. Forget kb's diatribe pretty much where he focuses on HBK's big wins and Lesnar's loses. It is irrelevant. Forget legacy and drawing power. Forget sense. Just vote HBK because it would be more entertaining to see him do the Davy and Goliath verse voting for Lesnar and his (I can't think of a movie or TV show where the bad monster kills the wee wittle guy).

Plus kb has worked really hard getting HBK the easiest road to the finals possible. Don't let all that work go unrewarded. If we did, we would never get to have mob movies.

All these pimping for HBK by the organizers remind me of Roman Reign's push even though the core audience didn't like how it was conducted. I hate smark crowds as much as anyone but the situation is too similar. Let's have our own rumble hijack and depush the 'chosen one' by the company for the people's champion and give HBK the more organic push for a more deserving win at a later date.

I like story over everything just like you. But I feel the more compelling story is HBK being denied the clear path to victory set forth by the decision makers to be. Lesnar don't need to win, but HBK definitely need to lose.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

This shouldn't be a long post, but we'll see what happens here.

At this moment, no one's more dominant than Brock Lesnar. He draws a helluva lot of money, he's ran through John Cena like a dose of salt in a major PPV main event, and was beating the holy hell out of Reigns for nearly 15 minutes before Rollins fucked things up for everyone. Lesnar's a very destructive wrestler that makes great wrestlers and brawlers look feeble and inferior and it's entertaining to watch. He's an attraction that hasn't be had in a long time in pro wrestling. And this goes without mentioning his beating Undertaker at Wrestlemania, something HBK attempted TWICE and couldn't accomplish.

That being said, HBK in his prime overcame EVERYONE in his path. That's his legacy. He overcomes being beaten nearly half to death and manages to walk out a winner. In his prime, HBK done that ALL the time. He's beaten Undertaker, Diesel, Razor, Vader, King Kong Bundy, Sid, Bret, and so many other wrestlers when he's been beaten down and left for dead.

To me, this wouldn't be any different. As good as Lesnar is, and as dominant as Lesnar is... he can be had by a solid technical wrestler. Kurt Angle and Eddie Guererro have Lesnar's number in big matches and those guys are on the same level or slightly inferior to HBK, who many regard as the best pure worker the business has ever seen.

To me, that's enough for me to put HBK over Lesnar here. It may take five or six encores of Sweet Chin Music to keep Lesnar down, but if anyone can do it, it's the Heartbreak Kid.

HBK's other boyhood dream should come true, which is be Wrestlezone Tournament Champion.

Vote HBK.

 

[klunderbunker]

All these pimping for HBK by the organizers remind me of Roman Reign's push even though the core audience didn't like how it was conducted. I hate smark crowds as much as anyone but the situation is too similar. Let's have our own rumble hijack and depush the 'chosen one' by the company for the people's champion and give HBK the more organic push for a more deserving win at a later date.

I like story over everything just like you. But I feel the more compelling story is HBK being denied the clear path to victory set forth by the decision makers to be. Lesnar don't need to win, but HBK definitely need to lose.

This doesn't really work. The more organic push was Rollins, who wound up taking the title. Reigns was shoehorned in there after just a handful of wins.....kind of like Brock actually.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'll take a Nitro Girls reunion, which includes Stacy Keibler, over Sable any day.

As for why you all should vote for Shawn, I'll present you with this.

Both guys left on long hiatuses during their careers. Let's compare those two for a second.

Shawn left because he broke his back. He went out putting Austin over to usher in the new generation in an underrated match.

Brock left because he was offered more money to do something else. That's fine, but think back to the last match of his first run. If there has been a bigger disaster of a big match at Wrestlemania, I've never seen it. Lesnar (and Goldberg) didn't put in any effort whatsoever and basically laughed at us for paying our money to see their match.

I'm going to vote for the guy who left because of an injury and still put on a good match as opposed to someone who left for money and screwed the fans over by putting in zero effort.

To play devil's advocate here, even though HBK was completely unable to perform at any level when he faced Austin, he still had to be coerced into doing the right thing by Taker waiting on him with taped fists in Gorilla position if he didn't do what he was told.

HBK wasn't a willing martyr in that situation.

Still was better than Lesnar pretty much giving a big 'fuck you' to the audience in his last match on his hiatus.

 

[klunderbunker]

To play devil's advocate here, even though HBK was completely unable to perform at any level when he faced Austin, he still had to be coerced into doing the right thing by Taker waiting on him with taped fists in Gorilla position if he didn't do what he was told.

HBK wasn't a willing martyr in that situation.

Still was better than Lesnar pretty much giving a big 'fuck you' to the audience in his last match on his hiatus.

That may be true (Shawn says it's not) but the key thing is he did it. Actually, when you think about it, that tells you more about Shawn than it does Brock. We don't know for sure if Shawn was going to do the job for Austin or not. What we do know is that Lesnar didn't have the proverbial gun to his head and screwed the audience over. That's just horrible, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Tastycles]

Oh yeah, Shawn Michaels noble and pure. Putting people over when it was the right thing to do. That was fully the narrative of the 90s. Jesus fucking Christ. Lesnar is a douche but pretty openly so. If anything he lets the fact that he's a mercenary ******** into his on screen persona, which makes it valuable. Michaels was a piece of shit in the 90s and pretty much nobody bar his best mates denies that.

Both of these men were out for themselves and to try and use it as a point in either of their favour is a joke.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh yeah, Shawn Michaels noble and pure. Putting people over when it was the right thing to do. That was fully the narrative of the 90s. Jesus fucking Christ. Lesnar is a douche but pretty openly so. If anything he lets the fact that he's a mercenary ******** into his on screen persona, which makes it valuable. Michaels was a piece of shit in the 90s and pretty much nobody bar his best mates denies that.

Both of these men were out for themselves and to try and use it as a point in either of their favour is a joke.

Oh I don't think so. Looking to the second run for Shawn, when did he not put others over? How many big Wrestlemania matches did he win? How long did he hog the title for? A month out of eight years I believe?

 

[nightmare]

That being said, HBK in his prime overcame EVERYONE in his path. That's his legacy. He overcomes being beaten nearly half to death and manages to walk out a winner. In his prime, HBK done that ALL the time. He's beaten Undertaker, Diesel, Razor, Vader, King Kong Bundy, Sid, Bret, and so many other wrestlers when he's been beaten down and left for dead.

That statement would probably sway someone on the fence if not for the fact that none of them are Lesnar. Sure, some are strong & some are technical but are any of them a juggernaut like Lesnar has shown to be? The guy has size, strength, ability & agility all working for him. That is a lot to handle. Sure Lesnar is not invincible, but when a guy takes Super Cena to the woodshed & eats a few AA's for the trouble & still comes out on top- that man is a badass.


I dont see Shawn taking this guy down. Certainly not with an atomic drop, some punches, flying elbow or a half dozen superkicks.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Oh yeah, Shawn Michaels noble and pure. Putting people over when it was the right thing to do. That was fully the narrative of the 90s. Jesus fucking Christ. Lesnar is a douche but pretty openly so. If anything he lets the fact that he's a mercenary ******** into his on screen persona, which makes it valuable. Michaels was a piece of shit in the 90s and pretty much nobody bar his best mates denies that.

Both of these men were out for themselves and to try and use it as a point in either of their favour is a joke.

In Nash's Youshoot interview, he even expresses how aggravating HBK was in their matches together. HHH even fell out with his crazy ass, so he pretty much alienated everyone in his path during his worst times. But he loved wrestling. That's more than can be said about Lesnar. Lesnar's a money mark and always has been. HBK's a mark for himself and in wrestling, that's actually better for business.

I agree though. They're both reprehensible people, just in different ways.

 

[Big Sexy]

Not quite sure why HBK is staying closer then Steve Austin did but there's no way he wins this. Especially because of the freshness of Lesnar due to his squashes the last couple rounds compared to HBK.

Keep in mind we could have had Warrior vs Lesnar if people voted him over Hart (like they should have). Instead we get a guaranteed win for Lesnar (who is great but being overrated because of his run the last 8 months).

 

[Shocky]

I'll take a Nitro Girls reunion, which includes Stacy Keibler, over Sable any day.

As for why you all should vote for Shawn, I'll present you with this.

Both guys left on long hiatuses during their careers. Let's compare those two for a second.

Shawn left because he broke his back. He went out putting Austin over to usher in the new generation in an underrated match.

Brock left because he was offered more money to do something else. That's fine, but think back to the last match of his first run. If there has been a bigger disaster of a big match at Wrestlemania, I've never seen it. Lesnar (and Goldberg) didn't put in any effort whatsoever and basically laughed at us for paying our money to see their match.

I'm going to vote for the guy who left because of an injury and still put on a good match as opposed to someone who left for money and screwed the fans over by putting in zero effort.

Are you talking about Michaels last match at Mania 14, or the half or so dozen times he refused to drop titles or flat out refused to work with others? We could talk about HBK ducking JJ, Dean Douglas, Bret Hart, whining about Vader, needing to be forced to do the job at Mania 14 with the threat of physical violence from Undertaker. Or we could talk about Brock, a mercenary to be sure, but a guy that didn't bitch at the idea of putting a lesser talent in Guerrero over on his way out the door. Brock maybe a lot of things, but he's not a guy that used his pull to duck guys he had personal beefs with.

 

[klunderbunker]

Are you talking about Michaels last match at Mania 14, or the half or so dozen times he refused to drop titles or flat out refused to work with others? We could talk about HBK ducking JJ, Dean Douglas, Bret Hart, whining about Vader, needing to be forced to do the job at Mania 14 with the threat of physical violence from Undertaker. Or we could talk about Brock, a mercenary to be sure, but a guy that didn't bitch at the idea of putting a lesser talent in Guerrero over on his way out the door. Brock maybe a lot of things, but he's not a guy that used his pull to duck guys he had personal beefs with.

No, but he's the kind of guy that will screw over the audience and leave them with no other options. At least Shawn stepped aside to give us some matches, or had them himself when he was in the ring.

 

[klunderbunker]

One more point to bring up: I know we all rave about Lesnar becoming the most dominant wrestler in the history of ever after beating Undertaker in New Orleans. Something people overlook: he's 2-2 since that match.

Yeah think about that for a minute. He mauled CEna, then lost to him by DQ, then won the triple threat, then lost the triple threat. Since he came back as the Beast, Lesnar doesn't exactly have a stellar record: 7-4. Aside from tag matches, Shawn lost six matches in two years. Aside from tags, when Shawn was wrestling full time in 1995/1996, he lost three matches.

Brock may look dominant, but when you look under the suplexes, he's nowhere near as dominant as he looks.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

One more point to bring up: I know we all rave about Lesnar becoming the most dominant wrestler in the history of ever after beating Undertaker in New Orleans. Something people overlook: he's 2-2 since that match.

Yeah think about that for a minute. He mauled CEna, then lost to him by DQ, then won the triple threat, then lost the triple threat. Since he came back as the Beast, Lesnar doesn't exactly have a stellar record: 7-4. Aside from tag matches, Shawn lost six matches in two years. Aside from tags, when Shawn was wrestling full time in 1995/1996, he lost three matches.

Brock may look dominant, but when you look under the suplexes, he's nowhere near as dominant as he looks.

How many pinfalls has Lesnar taken though? Just one and that was due to a chain with a lock on it being used on him by Cena. Other than that, he hasn't been pinned.

So I don't look at that record and think any less of Brock, because he was victimized in those losses more than being beaten.

 

[klunderbunker]

How many pinfalls has Lesnar taken though? Just one and that was due to a chain with a lock on it being used on him by Cena. Other than that, he hasn't been pinned.

So I don't look at that record and think any less of Brock, because he was victimized in those losses more than being beaten.

Trips pinned him at Wrestlemania.

Of those losses for Brock, how many of them weren't clean, as in not by the rules of the match?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Trips pinned him at Wrestlemania.

Of those losses for Brock, how many of them weren't clean, as in not by the rules of the match?

One was Extreme Rules, and the other was No Holds Barred, so there weren't any rules to abide by, which is why it made Lesnar vulnerable.

Think about that though, it took those kinds of matches to give anyone a shot at beating Lesnar via pinfall.

But I'm in agreement that if anyone can manage a clean pinfall on Lesnar in a regular match, it'd be HBK. The only thing HBK has going against him is a lack of stipulation that would allow him to use a blunt object on Lesnar.

 

[klunderbunker]

One was Extreme Rules, and the other was No Holds Barred, so there weren't any rules to abide by, which is why it made Lesnar vulnerable.

Think about that though, it took those kinds of matches to give anyone a shot at beating Lesnar via pinfall.

But I'm in agreement that if anyone can manage a clean pinfall on Lesnar in a regular match, it'd be HBK. The only thing HBK has going against him is a lack of stipulation that would allow him to use a blunt object on Lesnar.

The rules are anything goes, meaning Cena and HHH didn't cheat. Undertaker came pretty close without weapons attached.

Shawn doesn't need to hit him with a blunt object. He needs to catch Lesnar off guard and beat him. Brock can murder him after.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The rules are anything goes, meaning Cena and HHH didn't cheat. Undertaker came pretty close without weapons attached.

Shawn doesn't need to hit him with a blunt object. He needs to catch Lesnar off guard and beat him. Brock can murder him after.

And it's not like HBK can't bend the rules and not get caught either. Like I said, HBK could do it, but using losses Lesnar's had in gimmick matches doesn't help his case. HBK's case is stamina, big match record, and his ability to take an ass kicking and come out victorious.

 

[klunderbunker]

And it's not like HBK can't bend the rules and not get caught either. Like I said, HBK could do it, but using losses Lesnar's had in gimmick matches doesn't help his case. HBK's case is stamina, big match record, and his ability to take an ass kicking and come out victorious.

This is also assuming Brock doesn't get frustrated and beat Shawn so badly or shove the referee and get disqualified. Or if Heyman gets caught cheating and gets ejected, allowing Shawn to nail a superkick or 19 to put Brock down.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

That statement would probably sway someone on the fence if not for the fact that none of them are Lesnar. Sure, some are strong & some are technical but are any of them a juggernaut like Lesnar has shown to be? The guy has size, strength, ability & agility all working for him. That is a lot to handle. Sure Lesnar is not invincible, but when a guy takes Super Cena to the woodshed & eats a few AA's for the trouble & still comes out on top- that man is a badass.


I dont see Shawn taking this guy down. Certainly not with an atomic drop, some punches, flying elbow or a half dozen superkicks.

I'm surprised no one has pointed out Lesnar's inability to take a flying elbow without breaking a rib.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Are you talking about Michaels last match at Mania 14, or the half or so dozen times he refused to drop titles or flat out refused to work with others? We could talk about HBK ducking JJ, Dean Douglas, Bret Hart, whining about Vader, needing to be forced to do the job at Mania 14 with the threat of physical violence from Undertaker. Or we could talk about Brock, a mercenary to be sure, but a guy that didn't bitch at the idea of putting a lesser talent in Guerrero over on his way out the door. Brock maybe a lot of things, but he's not a guy that used his pull to duck guys he had personal beefs with.

This is a great point. I can easily see HBK refusing to lose to a part timer like Lesnar here and Lesnar willing to do the job for an extra $250,000.

Anyone who votes for Lesnar knows nothing about how things work in professional wrestling. If you already made a mistake by voting for Lesnar, PM kb to get your vote changed to save yourself further embarrassment and to save kb from breaking out all of his alts.

 

[nightmare]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out Lesnar's inability to take a flying elbow without breaking a rib.

Wow, yeah that is a good thing huh. Then someone would have to point out that a little broken rib wasnt enough to stop him from winning the match.


But hey, Shawn could always just miss one of his cross-eyed moonsaults & that would be enough to get him the victory right? He could even hit the table on the way down for good measure.

 

[Savior of Silence]

Look at all the rejects looking for any reason to vote HBK.

1. "Lesnar has been beaten by Angle, Benoit, etc. and has a hard time with smaller, technical guys."

This is Lesnar in his PRIME. The man hasn't been beaten in his prime. He ended the streak and demolished the undisputed face of the company for the last decade.

2. "Brock Lesnar is overconfident going in to this match."

Lesnar just handily defeated Austin and Cena with ease while Shawn had 2 hard fought victories against Bret Hart and Kurt Angle. You expect me to believe that there's any way Lesnar loses this match by overconfidence? He doesn't even need to try here.

Look, if you imbeciles just want to throw out the few rules in this tournament along with logic then be up front and honest about it. But don't try to feed us these bullshit excuses just because "lulz Bork loses".