Cena Region, Hartford Subregion, Second Round: (4) Lou Thesz vs. (13) Rob Van Dam

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round match in the Cena Region, Hartford Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the XL Center in Hartford, Connecticut.

4

#4. Lou Thesz


Vs.

#13. Rob Van Dam


​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Tastycles]

I'm going Thesz. I get that Rob Van Dam was hugely popular in his day, but Thesz was the most popular wrestler in the world for a lot longer. Thesz is more decorated, was more popular and was more influential. Thesz wins.

 

[nightmare]

Rob Van Dam. Why? Thesz would put him over because he is a nice guy & understands that the big draw would be the gimmick rounds to come. Never one to shy from a fight, Thesz would give his opponent a rough time, but as he isnt a guy who likes or needed gimmicks. He would bow out with a big payday for his services & promoters would hype the shit out of the next round match.


Rob is great in the air, but he also can hang in a mat based match. This would be more fun than people may make it out to be. Thesz is one of the most legit credible title holders ever, but the kayfabe argument has some merit if we look at how the tournament will be booked given the next set of gimmick rounds. If there were only straight wrestling matches, this could be different. If I was booking & gimmick rounds involved I would want Van Dam there & gladly pay Thesz his cash now.



Now we wait for Ech to recover from his aneurysm after reading my post.

 

[Bernkastel]

Lou Thesz here for several reasons. Lou was more accomplished. He was a multiple time world champion and held a recognized world title of some sorts off and on for 18 total years. Lou had more longevity and he was more consistent in his place on whatever card he worked. Van Dam was a main eventer in both WWE and ECW, but for a much shorter amount of time in comparison. Lou's influence on pro wrestling was far more staggering. As NWA champion he built the foundation for modern professional wrestling on his back. Lou Thesz was a globally known superstar. He traveled all over the world, defended the world title all over the world, and drew money all over the world. He logged something like 16 million miles in his travels across the globe. And he did all this without a multi-million dollar promotion machine backing him. Lou Thesz was more dominant in kayfabe. He had held the National Wrestling Association world title for about 2 years before unifying it with the Alliances world title. Where he spent about 7 years undefeated and racking up over 900 consecutive wins. Lou only dropped the title because he was bored and wanted to go and make a ton of money in Japan, which he did, but politics prevented him from defending the belt, so in the deal that he struck he got to choose his successor. He had that much influence. Otherwise he would have been champion a lot longer. Evidenced when Lou would return and hold the NWA title for another 3 year six years later. There's an argument to be made that Lou was the most dominant world champion ever. So if you're pushing the kayfabe argument this year, there's your reasoning to vote. Rob Van Dam was mostly a career mid-carder with the occasional push into the main event.

Vote Lou Thesz.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

The instant, Lou Thesz realizes RVD is a pot smoker, I'm guessing he wants to dismantle him. I'd daresay at some point RVD goes "Pick a hand"and Lou Thesz basically pretzels both of them.

Lou here.

 

[nightmare]

Thats great and all, but you could also say RVD carried a company on his back as a main focal point & must see star of a promotion that started a revolution. He went on to unify two titles with a win over the guy WWE was pushing as its #1 superstar. A guy who is the closest successor to Hulkamania we wil likely ever see. RVD is also a globally known star who has traveled the world as well & his fame has also gotten him roles in various films. Most of them were crappy, but I dont recall Thesz getting any roles because of his ring work or athleticism.


The list of names he beat is a good one. Thesz may have more of a list, but that was also during a time when there were way more jobbers and waaaay less big name guys than Van Dam's era. So of course a guy with Thesz's talent would be pushed when there were only a handful of credible threats & plenty of shitty people to beat across the country. His runs lasted long due to that. RVD made a mid card title bigger than the promotions main belt by holding it for 700 days, which is a feat considering the modern era's way of frequent tile changes. More numbers? Van Dam held titles everywhere, racking up over 20 in his time & is the only man I can think of that held the WWE, TNA & ECW titles in their career. So we could argue that all those wins when there were tons of great competition available were a bit better than 6 long reigns with minimal actual legit contenders.


Thesz wrestled a style seen plenty times before & even though he did it well, he wasnt exactly innovating anything too memorable besides the powerbomb and possibly the german suplex. Van Dam brought a hybrid style of mat wrestling, aerial lucha like style and martial arts together to give audiences a truly unique and exciting performance. Both men were considered #1 at times, but RVD seems to be remembered for many more holy shit moments that have stuck with fans to this day.


Thesz deserves all the credit in the world for his day, but wrestling evolved and when it did RVD was one of the guys at the forefront. People give respect for Thesz, but many wrestlers/fans probably could not tell you more than maybe 1 or 2 matches of his or opponents he fought them against, just that he was champ for a long time back then. People remember far more RVD matches & the cool shit he did in the ring.


Respect? Thesz
Longer reigns? Thesz
More memorable matches? RVD
More exciting offense? RVD
More championships? RVD
Global recognition & mainstream success? RVD


Seems like an easy vote if we go by numbers or kayfabe booking for what is in store for later rounds. Plus, nobody grows out their chest hair in homage to Thesz. Tons of people chant "ROB VAN DAM!"

 

[OYDK]

Longer reigns? Thesz

Held the belt for over 10 years combined to be exact...

More memorable matches? RVD

They're only more memorable because Thesz wrestled when the television was still in its infancy. Seriously I bet you about 5% of people on these boards have ever even seen a Lou Thesz match, of course people are going to remember the guy who wrestled last year. Fandango has had more memorable matches than Lou Thesz if we're using that criteria. Thesz has had 60 minute battles with people like Rikidozan, Mil Mascaras, Verne Gagne, etc, etc, etc. His matches with Rikidozan are largely given credit for the rise of pro-wrestling in Japan. The RISE OF PRO WRESTLING IN JAPAN. ECW isn't even in the same league as far as I'm concerned.

More exciting offense? RVD

Yeah, I agree. Still I don't think that's enough to go over a guy who wrestled in 7 different decades and has been the inauguration inductee in 7 different wrestling HOF's. The guy who won World titles in America, Japan, and Mexico against the biggest stars in the entire world. The guy who's probably had the biggest impact on pro-wrestling more than anybody ever.

But yeah RVD has a more exciting offense.

More championships? RVD

In what world? If you add up all of Thesz's title reigns, he's something like a 23 time World Champion. Even if you throw in RVD's Hardcore, European, Tag, and IC reigns he wouldn't come close. If you count the one that matters, RVD's won it once, twice if you count the ECW World title. As I said earlier, Thesz was champion for a combined 10+ years.

Global recognition & mainstream success? RVD

Now you're just making shit up.

Seems like an easy vote if we go by numbers or kayfabe booking for what is in store for later rounds.

I agree.

EDIT: Just re-read your post and I kind of have to add this. You say Thesz hasn't innovated anything too memorable. Ever heard of the Thesz press? The move the biggest star in the company utilized as a signature during the Attitude Era? Or the STF? The move the current number one guy uses as a finish? Come on dude.

 

[nightmare]

Thesz press is a pretty meh move, even for back then & the STF was really just another submission. The German and Powerbomb were great moves & utilized tons more than the previous two, hence why I stated those above the others.


Again, big name & respect to Lou, but if we use Santo being in movies as an indicator of how big his fame was over someone who never got those roles, why cant the same be used for RVD here? TV may have been in infancy, but during his time there were plenty of roles Thesz could have done because Hollywood was big time over then. Some of his matches were great, but mostly boring as hell. Even some of his bigger fans admit to that. Some big names, but 4 x as many jobbers padded his wins nicely. Im just saying regardless of tv exposure, what matches are available to have seen only a small portion of those are really remembered. Some people who tout his success have probably only watched a bit of those & praise him for name compelled out of obligation. People like RVD because he is exciting to watch, even his longer matches where attention spans have shortened through the years are good enough to keep you glued to the screen.

If Lou was truly over & not just fapped to off of name alone, people would seek out his stuff more & be able to list matches without wikipedia. Respect deserved & earned, but because of that alone, it indicates to me the majority of wrestling fans find RVD more popular.

 

[NSL]

I'm going with RVD here, as expected. I am fully aware of Thesz's accomplishments and contributions, but RVD was a huge fish in a tiny pond in ECW, and that popularity actually carried over to the national stage. When RVD was facing Cena for the belt, and the signs said "RVD wins, or we riot"...they meant it. He was white hot, and could do no wrong, and the only thing that ever held him back was his pot-smoking. He was insanely healthy, hardly ever suffered any sort of injury, and had great matches with anyone put against him.

I'm sure he'll lose the voting on this, but my vote is cast.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

So I'm going to pretend I know nothing about either Thesz or RVD. Going just off the information provided, which are pictures, Thesz has one title belt around his waist. RVD has two title belts across his arms. Basic math will tell you two is greater than one, so RVD must have been a bigger deal that Thesz.

 

[nightmare]

Well, based on that very sound logic from a smart gentleman, may I also point out the towel around Thesz's neck. A strong indicator he is heading to the showers after this match & probably will have a good sit in his new reclining chair from Sears & Roebuck, while RVD looks quite ready for whatever Round 3 has in store for him.


Dont vote for the black & white pictures just because someone bullied you into thinking you have to. Vote for RVD because he is live & in living color.

 

[Prince Vee]

I had said this before and will say that again. I don't know much about old school wrestlers as I'm a 90s kid. But I read all the opinions forwarded by the others, hensforth going with Lou Thesz. RVD had a great career in ECW, he was the whole f**king show! But I don't reckon he would match Lou Thesz legacy. I've read many articles about Lou, if not enough there are many valuable points put forth by the other posters which makes me go with Lou Thesz.

 

[ShinChan]

Lou Thesz here.

Yeah, RVD was a great wrestler. A great in-ring worker. Nice accolades too. He carried a company on his back just like Cena did.

But Thesz is a great legend. RVD is a legend too but Thesz is way above him.