Can anyone explain to me Randy Orton's popularity?

[newteenforbb]

Now I know WWE likes to "add in" pops/boos when they edit SMACKDOWN! in order to get it the way they want but I noticed that both on RAW and SMACKDOWN! recently, Orton has been getting pretty massive pops.

Can someone explain why? Is it basically little kids who do not know better and women who find him attractive? Most real wrestling fans and especially those on the net know do know better and couldn't care less when he is on television and would probably change the channel for the duration that he is on.

On top of that, seeing as how he is in pretty much a "non-existent" role right now in the company, his continued popularity really confuses me.

Anyone?

 

[LegendKiller716]

Just because you don't care about Orton, doesn't mean that most "real wrestling fans" don't. The main complaint with Orton is that he's boring. Maybe that has to do with the fact he hasn't had a story line in almost a year now. And on top of that, I like his promo style. I think he shows intensity and I think WWE should capitalize on that, and push it harder.

Now back to the "real wrestling fans" comment, Orton is very technically sound in the ring and is one of WWE's best story tellers. He's great at picking apart an opponent and has good facial expressions. The only people who say Orton can't wrestle are either clueless or think everyone should wrestle an indy style, and it would suck if everyone wrestled that style of match.

If WWE would let Orton get a little edgier and get him in a good rivalry, I think all the recent Orton hate would go away.

 

[donfryeismyhero]

Hey OP, I am a real wrestling fan & have been a fan of this business since 1988, most of my life. I can't speak as to why others like him but as for me, the man can cut a good promo. He doesn't stutter over his words, he has confidence and delivers the point that needs to be delivered. And as a wrestler, he's easily in the top 5 in the entire company as far as best in ring performers go. I'd say he's right behind Punk & Bryan. He has an old school style, methodical. When he does something, it means something as opposed to a bunch of spot monkey garbage. Perhaps you haven't been watching wrestling long enough to appreciate his old school style.

 

[HeartStingerJericho]

I don't think the Orton hate will ever completely go away. Orton is a very talented performer but I am more than a little tired of him. Despite the gimmick changes he is still the same guy he was 10 years ago: a great performer who has yet to reach his full potential. He is guilty of many of the same sins as Cena as far as using the same moves over and over and being a Superman type character as far as comebacks. As good as Orton is, he could be THE guy in all of wrestling. He could. But for some reason it doesn't seem like he ever will be.

 

[H33LTurn]

I'm not a child or a woman and I'm a pretty big fan of his. I like his character and his in ring work tickles my fancy. You might not see anything significant in him, as does most of the internet community, but to the people who go to he shows or watch at home hes very close to being a veteran, if he isnt considered one already.

 

[SacredMesa]

I'm with the OP I don't get Randy's currently popularity at all. When he used to pull great promos like this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZv_KJ4Kzds



yet now he's cutting garbage promos like...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UD2cksbtxM



Zero passion, zero believability, completely one note, and increadibly boring. His matches have declined as well. He was have phenomenal matches back in evolution and looked amazing, now the only purpose in his matches is to see what move he counters into an RKO. He is a picture perfect example to me of a guy who had everything it took to be a phenomenal star in the company and has completely lost it, although honestly I blame it more on the character he is given than on his actual ability.

 

[vikesfan]

He just needs to be turned heel. But either way he's one of the top 3 in WWE today. Just so smooth and very athletic(see his dropkicks). Ive been to 2 shows this year hes been at and believe me,its not just kiddies and girls that like him. There was fans of both sexes and various ages going nuts for him.

He sure beats Sheamus any day of the week anyway.

 

[Milkyway!]

Allow me to explain why I, a "real wrestling fan" and member of the IWC enjoy Randy Orton. He's good. He's damn good.

Now I know WWE likes to "add in" pops/boos when they edit SMACKDOWN! in order to get it the way they want

You have proof that the WWE edits the taps and adds in the pops/boos? I'll be honest I've read dirt sheets for nearly a decade now. This is the first I've heard of it. Until you have some objective proof of this occurring, I'll continue thinking you're lying. Thanks.

but I noticed that both on RAW and SMACKDOWN! recently, Orton has been getting pretty massive pops.

Because he's good. He's got great promos, decent charisma, plays a great character, and always puts on a GREAT match.

Can someone explain why? Is it basically little kids who do not know better and women who find him attractive? Most real wrestling fans and especially those on the net know do know better and couldn't care less when he is on television and would probably change the channel for the duration that he is on.

"Real wrestling fans." I am a real wrestling fan, those children you speak of are real wrestling fans, and those women are real wrestling fans. Your generalizations are baffling to say the least. Such asinine comments simply cannot be taken seriously. Those are the people there at the arena, and those are the people clearly screaming their heads off. '

If you dislike them, then maybe you should get together a group of friends, 10,000 or so, and let your voice be heard about Randy Orton. Because those fans up there are paying to see live shows, paying to go to pay per views, paying for merchandise; and all you're doing is crying about it on the internet. My apologies, but some fan you are.

I'm with the OP I don't get Randy's currently popularity at all. When he used to pull great promos like this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZv_KJ4Kzds



yet now he's cutting garbage promos like...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UD2cksbtxM

Well. I fixed your videos so we can actually enjoy them. I hope you don't mind. It's really not that difficult. You hit the YouTube button our dear admins have provided for us. You type in the code after the = sign.

The crowd was very into the second promo, and it heading into Mania it was a pretty well hyped promo as well. No, not the best Randy Orton promo ever, but this was still better than your average WWE entertainer.

Also I would like to point out that Wade Barrett had just gotten hurt. The buildup between Kane and Orton going into WrestleMania was shit, as they were clearly building up to Barrett vs Orton. Barrett's untimely injury crippled that. Kane and Orton did a great job given their poor buildup into the biggest night of the year.

Zero passion

This man performs 365 days a year. Zero passion? Could you work 365 days a year? I doubt it. That's passion. That's tenacity. That's amazing.

zero believability,

Orton is one of the best wrestlers in the business today capable of putting on a 3-4 star match night in and night out with anyone. Given the correct amount of buildup and chemistry, Orton can and will put on a 5 star match. He's great in the ring, and is the poster boy for in-ring psychology.

 

[mikde_]

This is a terrible thread and milkyway hit the nail on the head.

I'll add that randy orton has consistently been one of the best performers WWE has had to offer over the past 5 years. His execution is better than any in WWE (yes even D-Bry) and he is just a all round great performer. I have never understood any of this randy orton hate because it honestly is not justified on any level.

Also, randy is the most easy going down to earth wrestler I have ever met and I've met a hell of a lot. He talks to you like he would talk to a long time friend and although he has had his life problems and attitude problems he is a genuine honest guy.

Oh and bret hart has went on record stating how good orton is, even calling him the best wrestler in WWE but I guess all you haters know more about wrestling than bret hart....

 

[MVP#1]

I love it when someone doesn't like a certain wrestler that other do, that they try to justify themselves as "real wrestling" fans. I am not a child nor a woman and I enjoy watching Randy Orton perform. He can make awesome promos and tell a great story in his matches. Tell me please why can't children and women enjoy a wrestler? I don't get these arguments that people make of reasons why they don't like a certain wrestler is because they are popular with young kids and children. We all are watching the same show Look at Orton's promos from his debut up to now, he gets great crowd reactions. Want "real wrestling" go watch the amateur stuff.

 

[Headman]

Now I know WWE likes to "add in" pops/boos when they edit SMACKDOWN! in order to get it the way they want but I noticed that both on RAW and SMACKDOWN! recently, Orton has been getting pretty massive pops.

Can someone explain why? Is it basically little kids who do not know better and women who find him attractive? Most real wrestling fans and especially those on the net know do know better and couldn't care less when he is on television and would probably change the channel for the duration that he is on.

On top of that, seeing as how he is in pretty much a "non-existent" role right now in the company, his continued popularity really confuses me.

Anyone?

Every time someone says "Most realwrestlin fans" they usually follow it up by confirming that they are total morons. The OP didn't disappoint. As for your confusion with his role allow me to explain. After Cena he is one of the most popular stars in the WWE. He gets huge pops because he's over. Not just with "Women and kids" as idiots like you often use to prove their idiotic points, but with wrestling fans in general. Same goes with Cena and everybody else who gets monster pops while internet darlings get mild reactions at best.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

As a fan of Orton's his entire career, my appreciation for Orton has dropped tremendously.

I will be the first to admit that he has become EXTREMELY stale & has basically NO relevance right now(due to his "vacation" hahaha favorite Orton quote, EVER!), which is REALLY saying something bad, when you are SUPPOSED to be the #2 babyface for the company.

But I think it's pretty simple:
-He is an amazing athlete.
-He is in the top 5 talents of consistently good matches.
-Great story-telling abilities in & out of the ring.
-He has plenty of prestige from Evolution & Legacy to his feuds with the likes of Kofi, Cena, HHH, & Taker.
-His promos aren't bad.
-His gimmick is good, just stale.

IMO, he is very much a case like CM Punk. It's seems that sometimes they are in the doghouse & creative just screws them. Or they are finally over & doing everything right and creative wants to turn them babyface, which just dilutes their characters.

Orton has popularity that WWE craves & is desperate for right now, so they keep him a boring babyface. But that only dilutes his performances & bores the WRESTLING fans & IWC. A catch-22.

And if you are still not convinced, then look at Cena! He has ALOT more cons IMO and yet is MORE popular?!?! EXPLAIN THAT!

People just like who they like.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

LOL What makes you think WWE Universe doesnt care about Randy Orton? The guy was one of the best heels of the current generation, brough prestige to the IC championship, Put on steller feuds, 2nd biggest star of WWE, face of SD and most importantly the best wrestler of the current generation. The guy made people like Arn Anderson, Hogan, Triple H,Brett Hart, Paul Heyman, John Cena mark out to him, so it's no real surprise that WWE Universe mark out to him as well. So 'real wrestling fans' should boo Orton yeah? Why? because he was pushed to the moon? because he's only behind SuperCena (as you 'real' fans like to call) in terms of popularity hence SuperOrton? Or is it because he went Awol about 12 years ago, something he has admitted he's embarrassed about?

Oh yeah I remember you made a similar thread about Orton sometime back called - 'Does WWE need Orton' or something. Shows you just dislike/hate him hence you think 'real' wrestling fans should do too. Stupid Thread...

 

[UltimateHitman]

Ah, I see that simple debate is discarded in order to add bashing somebody's legitimate question to the mix. This because the OP legitimately does not see Orton's appeal. Instead of attempting to educate, let's add unnecessary bashing and name calling. Classy.

As to the subject, I totally agree with the OP's amazement. I sit and wonder the same thing myself, personally. His "awesome ability" is obviously due to rose colored glasses.

He has about the same number of moves as Nash now. Throw in his baby tantrum on the mat and you have vomit-inducing "entertainment" right there.

His promos are atrocious. He is monotone and has the same constipated look on his face throughout the entire promo. Then to make matters worse the face is still the same throughout his entire match.

Blandy Boreton is a very fitting moniker. I honestly did not miss him and, like the original post, wonder how people can possibly enjoy the guy.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

Ah, I see that simple debate is discarded in order to add bashing somebody's legitimate question to the mix. This because the OP legitimately does not see Orton's appeal. Instead of attempting to educate, let's add unnecessary bashing and name calling. Classy.

As to the subject, I totally agree with the OP's amazement. I sit and wonder the same thing myself, personally. His "awesome ability" is obviously due to rose colored glasses.

He has about the same number of moves as Nash now. Throw in his baby tantrum on the mat and you have vomit-inducing "entertainment" right there.

His promos are atrocious. He is monotone and has the same constipated look on his face throughout the entire promo. Then to make matters worse the face is still the same throughout his entire match.

Blandy Boreton is a very fitting moniker. I honestly did not miss him and, like the original post, wonder how people can possibly enjoy the guy.

When did you start watching wrestling sir? After Punk's promo? I dont think you know anything about gimmicks. Randy Orton as the legendkiller was supposed to be brash, cocky etc and it was shown in his promos. Orton did cut some good promos as the LK. As the 'Viper' he's supposed to be calm, calculating, cold etc. He's not supposed to show any remorse or emotion. That's his gimmick. Would it make sense if Arnold jumped up and down and made knock knock jokes as the Terminator? In WWe examples, how about the UT? That's their gimmick. Learn that

Hulk Hogan on Randy Orton ; "he's got it figured out. There only very few who really get it"

Brett hart on randy Orton ; Randy doesn’t necessarily get credit for being a great technician, but he is. People always use that term for me, “The Excellence of Execution” — and that’s what Randy is. I expect that he’s going to get better and better and better."

John Cena ; "[Randy Orton is] certainly the best performer of my generation.Randy's kind of the measuring stick. He's unbelievably talented and he just seems to bring the best out of me".

^^Coming from a guy who used to call him an asshole in the past

Triple H : ''Randy just glides in the ring and he, [laughs] this is the best compliment I can give him, he reminds me of Shawn''

Paul Heyman : ''As much as Edge has perfected the art of the wrestling heel, Randy Orton is by far the most riveting character WWE has ever presented.
Orton's character is so far from the "laughing at his own actions, bragging about his villainous conquests, reveling in his own heeldom" type of character as I've ever seen.
He has done what very few others have been able to do. He's broken new ground. He's given us a different perspective. The Orton character is driven by his demons, but shocked by his own actions.''


There you go. I quoted that from one of my replies to another newteen anti-Randy thread. You say Orton is boring but people who actually know what they talk about thinks he's damn good. You lose credibility kid...

 

[drobs85]

Now I know WWE likes to "add in" pops/boos when they edit SMACKDOWN! in order to get it the way they want but I noticed that both on RAW and SMACKDOWN! recently, Orton has been getting pretty massive pops.

Can someone explain why? Is it basically little kids who do not know better and women who find him attractive? Most real wrestling fans and especially those on the net know do know better and couldn't care less when he is on television and would probably change the channel for the duration that he is on.

On top of that, seeing as how he is in pretty much a "non-existent" role right now in the company, his continued popularity really confuses me.

Anyone?

I don't know what your hatred or jealously is towards Orton but this sounds as if you didn't realize Orton was getting these pops and attention as far back as 2004. This guy will always be liked until he leaves. Either your in the minority or delusional. Most are entertained by Orton everytime he's on TV and have been for years.

 

[SacredMesa]

The crowd was very into the second promo, and it heading into Mania it was a pretty well hyped promo as well. No, not the best Randy Orton promo ever, but this was still better than your average WWE entertainer.

Also I would like to point out that Wade Barrett had just gotten hurt. The buildup between Kane and Orton going into WrestleMania was shit, as they were clearly building up to Barrett vs Orton. Barrett's untimely injury crippled that. Kane and Orton did a great job given their poor buildup into the biggest night of the year.

The second promo was a Smackdown taping that's use of canned audience reactions is well documented. The first was a live RAW promo in which the crowd ate it up and loved every second of it. Since it seems though that you need more evidence...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_UOXE3ZS40

Storyline wise his father had been brutally attacked by Kane and so had he. Yet he really doesn't seem at that upset or angry. Same one note boring crap. I could grab some of the ones between him and Christian, or Mark Henry, or Cena, or pretty much any of them from the past 2-3ish years. The last time I remember him actually having a quality about him was when he had a very personal fued with Triple H when he RKOed and DDT Stephanie. After that it's like his character went to hell, he lost the ruthlessness he lost his vindictiveness and really just lost what made the Viper decent. Now it's corny silly and one note.

This man performs 365 days a year. Zero passion? Could you work 365 days a year? I doubt it. That's passion. That's tenacity. That's amazing.

Doesn't matter what passion you have back stage if you don't make me feel it when your in front of the camera.

Orton is one of the best wrestlers in the business today capable of putting on a 3-4 star match night in and night out with anyone. Given the correct amount of buildup and chemistry, Orton can and will put on a 5 star match. He's great in the ring, and is the poster boy for in-ring psychology.

The zero believability is about his character. I simply can't buy into the Viper as it is. Everything he does is one note and his matches are centered around what he will counter into the RKO. While that may provide some cool moments, see Shooting StaRKO, the luster on it fades pretty quickly, especially when we saw DDP doing pretty much the same thing years ago, created some cool moments but provided no substance.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Randy Orton is a terrible performer or a bad wrestler. I'm stating that as it is right now the character he portrays is vanilla there is nothing really to give it substance. The promos are the same, his matches have little variety to make me care, and he's suppose to be portraying this ruthless character and yet when he tries to make a fued personal like he did with Kane or even Christian before MitB it just falls flat to me, and fails to make me care. I think he could honestly be much better if he either reverted to the Legend Killer or was allowed to have the old ruthlessness he once possessed when the Viper gimik first started.

 

[Arashi]

When did you start watching wrestling sir? After Punk's promo? I dont think you know anything about gimmicks. Randy Orton as the legendkiller was supposed to be brash, cocky etc and it was shown in his promos. Orton did cut some good promos as the LK. As the 'Viper' he's supposed to be calm, calculating, cold etc. He's not supposed to show any remorse or emotion. That's his gimmick. Would it make sense if Arnold jumped up and down and made knock knock jokes as the Terminator? In WWe examples, how about the UT? That's their gimmick. Learn that

Orton is different, honestly he hits me as a batman type character. He just seems jaded and after people who have done him wrong. He's more of a vigilante than anything. I like it, it's different for me. Cena's superman and Orton's batman. It works and it's really brilliant imo.

Hulk Hogan on Randy Orton ; "he's got it figured out. There only very few who really get it"

Yeah, one of the best ever if not the best ever saying that.......... Big time.

Brett hart on randy Orton ; Randy doesn’t necessarily get credit for being a great technician, but he is. People always use that term for me, “The Excellence of Execution” — and that’s what Randy is. I expect that he’s going to get better and better and better."

Wow, I didn't know that hart said this and I've often said that Hart is my least favorite guy that was one of the greatest of all time. But for Hart to say this. is huge....

John Cena ; "[Randy Orton is] certainly the best performer of my generation.Randy's kind of the measuring stick. He's unbelievably talented and he just seems to bring the best out of me".

Cena's one of the best ever, in my top five probably and for him to say this is huge. For him to say Orton is the best performer of his generation is amazing considering.

Triple H : ''Randy just glides in the ring and he, [laughs] this is the best compliment I can give him, he reminds me of Shawn''

Okay comparing him to the best in ring talent in WWE history? Again it's amazing. Orton is an amazing wrestler and one of the best in recent history, to break him down and criticize him to this degree isn't valid but thank you for those quotes.

 

[SacredMesa]

When did you start watching wrestling sir? After Punk's promo? I dont think you know anything about gimmicks. Randy Orton as the legendkiller was supposed to be brash, cocky etc and it was shown in his promos. Orton did cut some good promos as the LK. As the 'Viper' he's supposed to be calm, calculating, cold etc. He's not supposed to show any remorse or emotion. That's his gimmick. Would it make sense if Arnold jumped up and down and made knock knock jokes as the Terminator? In WWe examples, how about the UT? That's their gimmick. Learn that

You need to rethink this statement. Being cold and calculating doesn't mean being one note and boring. Look back at Ortons fued with Triple H, he was still the "cold and calculating" Viper but he also expressed emotion. He showed his anger toward Triple H, he showed his cruel and vindictive side when he handcuffed him and attacked Stephanie, he demonstrated the ability to emotionally attack people when he kissed and incapacitated Stephanie in front of him. At the same time he also expressed remorse as if he couldn't believe just how cruel he could act. This made him unique, and resulted in the quote from Heyman.

The Orton we see today is far from it. Any amount of that "being driven by his demons but shocked by his own actions" is gone. He is suppose to be brutal and vindictive but he isn't showing it and he isn't showing any level of being shocked or surprised at his own cruelty. In short he went from something that had potential, and was ground breaking, and instead the character has pretty much been shot in the floor.



As for the rest of your quotes it's good that people think so highly of him, but consider this. Stone Cold Steve Austin one of if not the best in the business was originally The Ring Master, he very well may still of been the best in the business but that character was going no where and not even someone like Austin could make it work. It doesn't matter how damn talented a person is if the character they are given doesn't work. We have seen it from The Rock when he first came in, we saw it from Double A his first run in TNA when he failed, we saw it from CM Punk in TNA. All these guys are great talents that at one point where given a character or position that simply didn't allow them to showcase what they are capable of. That is the position I believe Orton is in right now.

Orton is different, honestly he hits me as a batman type character. He just seems jaded and after people who have done him wrong. He's more of a vigilante than anything. I like it, it's different for me. Cena's superman and Orton's batman. It works and it's really brilliant imo.

That's all well and good but if you look at batman as a whole. The most interesting and memorable characters haven't been Batman himself. It's been characters like The Joker, Two Face, Poison Ivy, etc etc the villians who gave character and personality to a series who's hero was pretty bleh himself.

 

[Arashi]

You need to rethink this statement. Being cold and calculating doesn't mean being one note and boring. Look back at Ortons fued with Triple H, he was still the "cold and calculating" Viper but he also expressed emotion. He showed his anger toward Triple H, he showed his cruel and vindictive side when he handcuffed him and attacked Stephanie, he demonstrated the ability to emotionally attack people when he kissed and incapacitated Stephanie in front of him. At the same time he also expressed remorse as if he couldn't believe just how cruel he could act. This made him unique, and resulted in the quote from Heyman.

Okay I see your point and I agree to it to a certain extent.

The Orton we see today is far from it. Any amount of that "being driven by his demons but shocked by his own actions" is gone. He is suppose to be brutal and vindictive but he isn't showing it and he isn't showing any level of being shocked or surprised at his own cruelty. In short he went from something that had potential, and was ground breaking, and instead the character has pretty much been shot in the floor.

Wouldn't he get used to it though? I mean if you're asking for him to be the same vindictive person, after a while wouldn't he stop being shocked by his actions? Can't go much further than ddting a woman and making out with her in front of her husband while she's unconscious. You have to grow and the next reasonable step is for him to go cold and uncaring. He's not going to take things as personal because it takes alot for him to go to that place now. If he went there every week, month, episode it wouldn't be good. It would get stale and ruin him completely. He'll get there again but Orton hasn't had the sadistic great character to work with.

As for the rest of your quotes it's good that people think so highly of him, but consider this. Stone Cold Steve Austin one of if not the best in the business was originally The Ring Master, he very well may still of been the best in the business but that character was going no where and not even someone like Austin could make it work. It doesn't matter how damn talented a person is if the character they are given doesn't work. We have seen it from The Rock when he first came in, we saw it from Double A his first run in TNA when he failed, we saw it from CM Punk in TNA. All these guys are great talents that at one point where given a character or position that simply didn't allow them to showcase what they are capable of. That is the position I believe Orton is in right now.

Well I believe most of the audience doesn't believe that.

That's all well and good but if you look at batman as a whole. The most interesting and memorable characters haven't been Batman himself. It's been characters like The Joker, Two Face, Poison Ivy, etc etc the villians who gave character and personality to a series who's hero was pretty bleh himself.

Heels need faces and faces need heels.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

Same one note boring crap. I could grab some of the ones between him and Christian, or Mark Henry, or Cena, or pretty much any of them from the past 2-3ish years. The last time I remember him actually having a quality about him was when he had a very personal fued with Triple H when he RKOed and DDT Stephanie. After that it's like his character went to hell, he lost the ruthlessness he lost his vindictiveness and really just lost what made the Viper decent. Now it's corny silly and one note.

Wow so you blame only Randy for lack of interesting storylines? (Even not the other wrestler?) If a guy has the look, talent, drawing ability and can get the loudest pop each and every night - what more can you ask for? It's not the wrestler's fault he's in a a lackluster storyline. Seriously I can only remember about 10-15 storylines that captivated me in the last 3 years and most of them involve Cena (face of the company).

The Orton we see today is far from it. Any amount of that "being driven by his demons but shocked by his own actions" is gone. He is suppose to be brutal and vindictive but he isn't showing it and he isn't showing any level of being shocked or surprised at his own cruelty. In short he went from something that had potential, and was ground breaking, and instead the character has pretty much been shot in the floor.

He's face now. You cant go around RKO'ing Cena dad and Triple H and be appalled by it as a face. Plus the punt is banned. While I do enjoy the heel Viper alot more, the fact that Orton gets a huge pop each and every night shows he is successful.

As for the rest of your quotes it's good that people think so highly of him, but consider this. Stone Cold Steve Austin one of if not the best in the business was originally The Ring Master, he very well may still of been the best in the business but that character was going no where and not even someone like Austin could make it work. It doesn't matter how damn talented a person is if the character they are given doesn't work. We have seen it from The Rock when he first came in, we saw it from Double A his first run in TNA when he failed, we saw it from CM Punk in TNA. All these guys are great talents that at one point where given a character or position that simply didn't allow them to showcase what they are capable of. That is the position I believe Orton is in right now.

You just compared 3 gimmicks that people didnt care about to a gimmick that gets Orton the loudest pop every night (except maybe when a part timer makes an appearance)

Remember IWC is not the WWE Universe. WWE Universe loves Randy 'Batman' Orton (Thanks funnyhowfactswork)and that's what Vinnie Mac cares about. Not IWC who change their wrestler every 6 months

 

[SacredMesa]

Wouldn't he get used to it though? I mean if you're asking for him to be the same vindictive person, after a while wouldn't he stop being shocked by his actions? Can't go much further than ddting a woman and making out with her in front of her husband while she's unconscious. You have to grow and the next reasonable step is for him to go cold and uncaring. He's not going to take things as personal because it takes alot for him to go to that place now. If he went there every week, month, episode it wouldn't be good. It would get stale and ruin him completely. He'll get there again but Orton hasn't had the sadistic great character to work with.

You can get personal without going to the extremes. His fued with Christian was taken to a personal level when Christian made comments about his father and Orton countered about Christian only having a 5 day reign because Edge helped him. Now no this wasn't as personal as Triple H and Orton but it's an example that you can make it personal and as long as the in ring action backed it up then it can be great. My issue was it really didn't, Orton didn't treat Christian any different before or after the comments, and the only time he really did much for me during that fued was when he "snapped" after Christian won by disqualification.

In terms of your last comment thats the thing. Orton doesn't need a sadistic person to fued with. He needs to BE that sadistic person.

Well I believe most of the audience doesn't believe that.

And that is fine. While I speak with certainty and conviction I in no way believe my opinion is the only one, or honestly even the right one. It's simpy my perception on Orton based on what I have seen from him in the past and what I see from him now.

Heels need faces and faces need heels

Agreed the issue is Orton has the potential to be that memorable character that people can really get behind, either on his side or against him, and yet he is being used as the guy who needs other people to make him memorable. To me that is a waste of a guy with more potential himself than most the rest of the WWE locker room.

Wow so you blame only Randy for lack of interesting storylines? (Even not the other wrestler?) If a guy has the look, talent, drawing ability and can get the loudest pop each and every night - what more can you ask for? It's not the wrestler's fault he's in a a lackluster storyline. Seriously I can only remember about 10-15 storylines that captivated me in the last 3 years and most of them involve Cena (face of the company).

Not sure where you get I'm blaming Orton for anything. I've made several comments that I believe Orton is full of potential with a ton of talent but is being horrilby misused.

He's face now. You cant go around RKO'ing Cena dad and Triple H and be appalled by it as a face. Plus the punt is banned. While I do enjoy the heel Viper alot more, the fact that Orton gets a huge pop each and every night shows he is successful.

Strange Stone Cold went around beating down a guy who was in a wheel chair and got huge face reactions. Issue was this was when the guy he was beating down was a great heel, Vince, and currently Orton doesn't have this. That's when it's time to turn him heel or create that heel for him. Frankly with his character being what it is a heel Orton is far more reasonable step to take. Also he doesn't need the punt to be seen as cruel or vindictive. Hell Stone Cold was seen as very cruel when he smashed Kurt Angles leg with a chair trapped it in the chair and jumped off the top road onto it and then attacked him while he was in the stretcher. Nothing against the head but it still made him come across very cruel and twisted.

You just compared 3 gimmicks that people didnt care about to a gimmick that gets Orton the loudest pop every night (except maybe when a part timer makes an appearance)

Remember IWC is not the WWE Universe. WWE Universe loves Randy 'Batman' Orton (Thanks funnyhowfactswork)and that's what Vinnie Mac cares about. Not IWC who change their wrestler every 6 months

I never said anything about the IWC, nor do I really care about what they have to say. My arguement have been from my opinion based on what I have seen from Orton in the past and now and my own creative ideals for how I think he could be used better. I never once said I was right or that my opinion was the only one that could exist. If you don't agree that's fine, if you think a loud pop is the only thing that matter then fine, it takes more than a pop for me to be interested in a character or to view it was a quality character.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

Not sure where you get I'm blaming Orton for anything. I've made several comments that I believe Orton is full of potential with a ton of talent but is being horrilby misused.

That was directed at another poster buddy. Not you.

Strange Stone Cold went around beating down a guy who was in a wheel chair and got huge face reactions. Issue was this was when the guy he was beating down was a great heel, Vince, and currently Orton doesn't have this. That's when it's time to turn him heel or create that heel for him. Frankly with his character being what it is a heel Orton is far more reasonable step to take. Also he doesn't need the punt to be seen as cruel or vindictive. Hell Stone Cold was seen as very cruel when he smashed Kurt Angles leg with a chair trapped it in the chair and jumped off the top road onto it and then attacked him while he was in the stretcher. Nothing against the head but it still made him come across very cruel and twisted.

Exactly. SCSA had great heels to work with. Vince drew a great reaction, Angle did. he had awesome storylines. But look at Orton. They sent him to SD and quite honestly I dont see anyone on SD that is in his level. He can turn heel and go beserk and do cruel stuff but people will just cheer and that's it. SCSA had equally good rivals in Rock, Angle, HHH, McMahon. only way to have a solid feud with a lesser star is by having a good storyline and TBH the only time I see good storylines are when either Cena, lesnar or Triple H is involved. (not to blame them - they are huge draws) So blame creative.

If you don't agree that's fine, if you think a loud pop is the only thing that matter then fine, it takes more than a pop for me to be interested in a character or to view it was a quality character.

I just said that WWE universe finds Orton interesting, not that everyone should. Basically everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Is Randy interesting now as he was as the LK? or the Heel Viper? To me NO. But considering the product today, he is as interesting as he could be. And yes, you are entitled to have an opinion and I respect that

 

[SacredMesa]

That was directed at another poster buddy. Not you.

Alright I guess but you can't really blame me for thinking it was directed at you, you did quote me after all.

Exactly. SCSA had great heels to work with. Vince drew a great reaction, Angle did. he had awesome storylines. But look at Orton. They sent him to SD and quite honestly I dont see anyone on SD that is in his level. He can turn heel and go beserk and do cruel stuff but people will just cheer and that's it. SCSA had equally good rivals in Rock, Angle, HHH, McMahon. only way to have a solid feud with a lesser star is by having a good storyline and TBH the only time I see good storylines are when either Cena, lesnar or Triple H is involved. (not to blame them - they are huge draws) So blame creative.

Orton doesn't have great heels, as it, right now but it's easy to create some, or make him heel. Punk can be a great heel, and Cena showed in the past he could as well. Ziggler is waiting in the wings to show his talent if he could ever shake off Vickie, Roodes has show the ability to fued directly with Orton, although imo Roode's carried that fued with his bag gimik at the time not sure how it would go now. Sheamus is more than due for a heel turm imo as he was infinitly better as an ass kicker who didn't give a damn than this smily guy who just wants to fight. Daniel Bryan goes without saying.

WWE has the potential for greatness in it's current roster, Orton isn't the only one who is suffering from misuse on creatives part, but he is the one I feel is being hit the hardest.

I just said that WWE universe finds Orton interesting, not that everyone should. Basically everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Is Randy interesting now as he was as the LK? or the Heel Viper? To me NO. But considering the product today, he is as interesting as he could be. And yes, you are entitled to have an opinion and I respect that

The thing is right now they just find him interesting. SCSA was interesting and then he gave his king of the ring speech and beat HBK at wrestlemania 17. Interesting is ok but you have to be more than simply interesting to be a main eventer imo or to be seen as great. He could easily of been the face of the company over Cena had he been used right, it's this wasted potential that is one of the reasons I am so annoyed by his currently character and standing in the company.

 

[Wahfz]

Threads stupid.

Basically summed up:

Ortons a great heel with absurd amounts of talent in the ring and had a great character.

His face runs are a bit dry and kind of stale as far as promo's go.

Kind of wish he was a tweener and kicked anyone and everyone.

Honestly, I don't see him being give many amazing stoylines to showcase any storytelling ability or some sort, so I'm a bit more swayed towards lack of content, but he is a bit of a stale face IMO. Yet, his in-ring talent can't be questioned, he's absurdly over and gets great pops, so, whatever.

Once again, threads stupid.