Can ANY "superstar" get over with the right gimmick?

[Sheamus' Suntan]

A bit of a weird question here for my 3rd thread started on Wrestlezone, but something has come to mind.

Lately, gimmicks have come back in WWE. For a long time, we were sat watching generic stars being created with vague gimmicks such as "hero" as in John Cena (this is NOT a Cena hate thread), and everyone else just being very generic.

However the past year, we've seen gimmicks really come back and they've been incredibly over. These gimmicks are with people who have not been thought of as "possible" to get over, people who were considered at one point by the IWC to be possible releases for WWE!

For instance;
R-truth. R-truth as a face could NOT get over. He turns heel, gains an "insane" gimmick and suddenly he's a world title contender.

Cody Rhodes - During Legacy, Cody was incredibly stale. Could not get over due to his generic style and his lisp. He becomes "dashing" and then loses that, becoming Masked Cody Rhodes. Since this, Cody has become one of the most over heels on Smackdown, gaining some of the biggest heat possible on the blue brand.


What I guess I'm asking, is can ANYONE get over if they have the right gimmick?

Ted Dibiase Jr was given a gimmick at the same time as Cody's "dashing" era begun, and he flopped. Was this JUST because the gimmick was wrong?

Alberto Del Rio started off incredibly heated but now...is not so. The reason is because his gimmick is growing stale and he's doing the same thing over and over with every promo.

These 2 examples above...could they be given STRONGER gimmicks, something more suited to them and would they be MORE "over"?

I understand these are all heels, but I believe faces could also use stronger gimmicks. Something to help people connect to them a lot easier...

So here are the questions;

Can anyone get over with the right gimmick?
Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?
Could faces benefit from stronger gimmicks as well as heels, or should heels be over the top, like they are lately and faces more connectible and "human"?

 

[silrock316]

HUH?

Thats like asking can anyone buy a Aston Martin if they had the right amount of money.

Maybe I am missing the point so I tried thinking about what you are looking for here.

So ive come to this, probably NOT. Some guys are just BRUTAL on the mic. Some guys are GREEN as GRASS. Some just don't look the part.

So that would make your question fairly easy to answer.

Wasn't my favorite thread but hey Ive posted a few bad ones myself.

 

[MMK]

Can anyone get over with the right gimmick?
In my opinion gimmicks rarely get anyone over. Guys get over when they start feeling more comfortable in front of a camera and the easiest way to let that happen is to let them be themselves. Unfortunatley I'm not sure how much personality todays cookie cutter wrestlers have to begin with. But it's worked in the past.

Edge and Christian had incredibly cool gimmicks in the brood and yet they went no where. It wasn't until they were allowed to speak and be themselves that they got over. Same goes for Shawn, Austin, Mick Foley, Rock, and a whole series of others. Gimmicks rarely work, not even the good ones like the Brood. Wrestlers blossom when they're characters are a natural extension of there own personality, albeit an exaggerated one.

Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?
Ted Dibiase is someone in desperate need of a name change. When people hear that name they think of his Dad. He will always be in his fathers shadow due to him having the same first name. Cody and Randy don't have that problem. They may share there fathers last names, but they have there own first names. Dibiase is in a similar predictament that Dustin Rhodes was in. People associated Dustin too much with Dusty. Looked too much like him. Names too similar, etc. Goldust, one of the few gimmicks that actually worked, helped break Dustin away from his father. Ted Dibiase needs a similar radical makeover. Although Im not sure DiBiase has the charisma to ever truly be over.
One clever way to differentiate him from his father, would be for him to be the opposite of his dad and have him play the Virgil role instead of the role his father played. Have him play the abused sidekick to Cody Rhodes the way Virgil was to the Million Dollar Man. It would be a lot more clever than going the obvious route of slapping the million dollar belt on him and having him be a boring clone of his dad. It would be ironic to see a Dibiase taking the verbal abuse instead of dishing it out.

But I think Dibiase is destined to be a tag team wrestler for life. Which I don't think is a bad thing. We need tag teams. I think when his brother makes it to the WWE it would be wise to put them together as "The Fortunate Sons" or "The DiBiase Brothers" and help rebuild the tag team division.

 

[TheLoneCharles]

I 100% believe that with the right gimmick that even the worst of the workers can get themselves over to some degree. It just a matter of getting the crowd to notice them. Even if they think you are god awful there would be a "you cant wrestle" chant.

I liked the idea that I read for Ted Dibiase above. Here's an idea to take it further: When Dibiase is becoming a Virgil in his own right to Cody, have Cody give Dibiase a slave name. That would disassociate him from the Dibiase name. Then eventually when Brett comes in, he can be the Dibiase superstar and he looks down on his brother with the slave name.

There are several wrestlers I would tweak, and I would do it by creating a modern day European faction that loathes the U.S. for what is has become. I would put Barrett, McIntyre, Mason Ryan, and Sheamus all into this group.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Can anyone get over with the right gimmick?

No. Have to be able to sell and dish out moves that will entertain the fans as well. Gimmicks can only get you so far, and selling it gets you farther. But you have to be able to connect with the audience with what you do in the ring as well.


Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?

I have to go with Ted Dibiase as well. He seemed like he had a lot of potential in Legacy, far more than Cody did. But solo we really saw the green in him, and that green was not cash. I'd sit him down and discuss what he really wants to do with his character, because he is being wasted. I thought he would have done something fairly good after dropping the "I'm Like My Daddy" gimmick, but no that went even more south.

Sadly, he probably needs to run with Rhodes for a little while longer. Not saying he should be a lackey, but he needs better build and a personality. Rhodes is shining through with both right now.



Could faces benefit from stronger gimmicks as well as heels, or should heels be over the top, like they are lately and faces more connectible and "human"?

The top faces in this modern age were over the top I thought. You have one Face Champion imitating a snake, and another an all-around hero guy similar to Hogan. Khali as a face was this erotically laughable playboy, Henry was just laughable, and then there is Santino. No matter where I look I see cartoons. The closest to a connectible face I've seen thus far is maybe Christian, and it looks like he is going uber heel. So I have to disagree with your thoughts here.

 

[dtroppe]

A gimmick can hold a person back...without a doubt- look at Stone Cold as the Ringmaster and the Rock as Rocky. But a gimmick can not get ANYBODY over. If you really think about all the gimmicks, what gimmick actually got the guy over. I think a very high if not 100% of all successful pro wrestlers are just very charasmatic and have the look and energy to get themselves over. They can rise above any gimmick and make themselves shine. Look at The Million Dollar Man- this is a great gimmick. I love the gimmick but Ted Dibase Sr the wrestler just couldnt make it out of the mid card level. He just did not have that extra gift to make the fans really buy into him and to make the management trust him with more responsibilities. Id be interested if anyone can come up with a gimmick that actually made the wrestler. Something completly opposite from a guys personality where he had to struggle to pull of the gimmick, yet the gimmick was so good he was a huge star.

 

[The Crock]

Having the correct gimmick is an integral part of any pro wrestler's success. It's not just the gimmick though. They have to have a connection with the crowd, they have to be decent in the ring, on the mic, and so on. All that put together will get a superstar over. At the same time, you have to keep in mind that a good gimmick only works with a certain person. Owen Hart couldn't have been "The Game," no, it didn't fit him. The gimmick has to really fit the person taking it on, there's no such thing as a universal gimmick. So, in theory, any superstar who is well rounded enough in his craft can get over with the right gimmick, yes.

 

[Constipated Badger Bottom]

You can have the perfect gimmick, look, in-ring ability, muscle but if you don't ever have the chemistry or the connection with the fans then your not going to go anywhere in the WWE no matter how much you change your gimmick if the connection is not there then it's pointless.

It's cruel but that's wrestling.

 

[TheKingHustla]

Can anyone get over with the right gimmick?

I think it not only depends on the gimmick, but if the person can sell the gimmick well. I mean, Cody sells the shit out of his gimmick, he performs well with it. So does R-Truth. If you would have given the same exact gimmicks to someone else, they might have flopped if the wrestler couldn't carry the gimmick. Most of the time, the superstar makes the gimmick good, not the other way around. I mean look at Foley. He sold four different gimmicks in his prime of his career, and all four of them went over well. He was Cactus Jack, Dude Love, Mankind, and then Mick Foley.

Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?

I would change Ted Dibiase's gimmick and make him into Rhode's psychiatrist/manager. I mean, everyone can see that he is gonna ride Cody's coat tail anyway, so why not do it in a gimmicky way. If he diagnosis Cody and they take it from there, and then have him continue to tell Cody that he is crazy, ultimately ending in a fued, it might work.

Either that, or make him into a dark, Gangrel, Brood type of character.

Or, I'd just say screw it, and make SuperCena a character! Have him come out with a superman get up and rub it in everyone's face that he is the hero. He is already doing it, just a quick wardrobe, theme, and name change and boom, it's magic!

Could faces benefit from stronger gimmicks as well as heels, or should heels be over the top, like they are lately and faces more connectible and "human"?

I think that it depends, because lets look at Rey Mysterio, he is over as hell with the fans because of his mask, and cara has his superhero thing going with the mask, then you had hurricane getting some good pops when he was doing his superhero thing. I think that it depends on what the gimmick is, because you don't want to distance the star too much away from the crowd and fans. I would love to see a monster hero character. Like maybe if you had someone like Mason Ryan, or Big Zeke, become a face but also be a scary monster where he destroys the bad guys, kind of like I thought Kharma was going to do. Be like a Sin Cara character, just big and strong and scary.

 

[Swamp D.]

A lot of what gets wrestlers over involves what is real with their personality. A lot of wrestlers don't get the chance for them to portray whats real in their lives unless fate steps in for some reason and the "real" character breaks though.

Cody Rhodes admits that he is the biggest comic book fan with a huge comic book collection. Its his love for supervillians in the books that is making him a huge heel in WWE. He also admits that if it wasn't for his broken nose then he wouldn't have had the chance to portray the character that he is now and would have been dull still as "dashing".


Stonecold would not have gotten over if it wasn't for King of the Ring 1996. "Austin 316 says I just whooped your ass!"

 

[RJB1976]

Gimmick, ability and tiiming all have to mesh. The best examples I can think of are Brian Christopher and Scott Taylor. Both were lost in the mid card shuffle of the ill fated light heavywieght division. Taylor was still a long time jobber, and Christopher was stuck in a meaningless fued with Scott Putzski. Then they worked a few matches as a tag team, and the chemistry was there but a little rough.

The WWE tried booking them as heels, but Taylor can not pull off being a heel. However, they adopted a hip hop gimmick (the hip hop movement was really in full swing at this point) and the gimmick connected with the fans. The dancing, the entrance music, and Scotty's worm (which was just as over with the crowd as The people's elbow) and you have two mid card workers lifted to sub main event level.

If I were to tweek anyone's gimmick, it would be Justin gabriels. I'd split him from Corre. What I would do is book him in a series of matches against Evan Bourne. Just let them loose and tear down the house. Have them go maybe 5 matches or so, with no clear winner ever being declared. Then have them settle the fued (a fued about respect) at a PPV where they compete in a 30 minitue Iron Man Match. It would be a money fued, and allow the WWE to jump start the division for one of the lower tier belts by having one of them win a belt, and let the fued continue.

As for question three, the best villians are always the over the top villians (Dr. No, anyone?) As for the faces, they need to connect and be human, because they represent the people in a battle against evil.

 

[go_patriots11]

Many have said they would change Ted Jr's gimmick so I am going to keep on rolling with it. I've had this idea for awhile, and with WWE bringing back the managers, thats more or less what I would do with Ted, but still as a wrestler as well. I'd still incorporate the fact that he has money but I'd give him more of an Agent/Talent scout sort of gimmick. Think something along the lines of a heel Jerry McGuire. Interaction with the fans are key so I would have him maybe come down to the ring throwing out business cards claiming he is looking for the next big talent to add to his stable. Over time you could show him interviewing wrestlers in extravagent places (Pool Side resorts, High end car dealership etc..but they would never show the wrestlers identity) it would add an element of suprise I think.

 

[jcrEDGE14]

Can anyone get over with the right gimmick?

As has already been said on the board, it's a yes and no thing to me. The gimmick needs to be an extension of the superstar. That's why Edge, SCSA, Rock, and even Cena were able to get over because the "gimmicks" they were given they were able to either run with it or build off of it to make it theirs and get them extremely over. And yes, they have to be able to connect with the fans. SCSA was just that beer drinking, hell raising guy that everyone wants to be without fear of reprecussion. Rock was just that over-the-top ego guy that just screamed "larger than life" and the fans rallied behind it.

People may forget that the reason why Cena got his original gimmick is because Stephanie heard him free-styling in the back and then he built on it as time went on. He basically plays himself.

Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?

There are a few superstars who could/should get a "gimmick" makeover. For me there are a few. The first would be Justin Gabriel. If you follow him on Twitter, he has the making of a like a guy that is emo-looking. I'm not saying he is or that it's a bad thing, but he just had that appearance, so why not be something like that? I would dub him the "The Dark Angel" Gabriel (drop the Justin part). He would be a goth like guy that would obviously be a heel and just be full of hate towards anyone and everything. The second guy I would makeover or rather I should say tweak is Wade Barrett. He's got a history as a bare-knuckler fighter in GBR, so why not make him something like that. I'd basically make him a cross between The British Bulldog and William Regal. I'd call him the "The English Bloohound" Wade Barrett. I'm not sure how good that sounds to you guys, but it makes him seem like he is just a nasty, brawler, who is pretty much out for blood.

Could faces benefit from stronger gimmicks as well as heels, or should heels be over the top, like they are lately and faces more connectible and "human"?

It depends. SCSA was a heel first and his turn to become Stone Cold from the Ringmaster made him face and got him over. He was a rebel against what would be construed as tyranny. I'm not saying the WWE is tyrannical, but that's why people flocked to him. He was the guy that stood up against "The Man". On the other side of the coin, The Rock wasn't really much until he turned heel when he went to NOD. Then he WAS REALLY over when he turned back ruining the same faction. Cena too was a heel first and then his evolution of his character to the Hustle, Loyalty, Respect guy got him over huge. Personally, as you can see, I can think the logical path is to let a superstar be heelish first and once they are able to establish a connection to the fans then you can't do anything but turn them face. (Even HBK was a heel first, HHH, Angle, etc.)

Sorry for the long post.

 

[billm75]

Having the correct gimmick is an integral part of any pro wrestler's success. It's not just the gimmick though. They have to have a connection with the crowd, they have to be decent in the ring, on the mic, and so on. All that put together will get a superstar over. At the same time, you have to keep in mind that a good gimmick only works with a certain person. Owen Hart couldn't have been "The Game," no, it didn't fit him. The gimmick has to really fit the person taking it on, there's no such thing as a universal gimmick. So, in theory, any superstar who is well rounded enough in his craft can get over with the right gimmick, yes.

This, right here!

I agree, a gimmick can be an asset or a hindrance, depending on who's getting the role, so to speak.

Take someone who's a decent worker, like Drew McIntyre for example, give him a gimmick and stick with it, he'll go far. He's not bad on the mic, he's good in the ring and he has the look. He's been blacklisted it seems, and had his "chosen one" gimmick taken from him before he really got a chance to shine through.

A gimmick is one piece of the puzzle. If you're crap on the mic, or in the ring, no gimmick in the world can overcome that.

 

[MillionDollarMan]

A gimmick can hold a person back...without a doubt- look at Stone Cold as the Ringmaster and the Rock as Rocky. But a gimmick can not get ANYBODY over. If you really think about all the gimmicks, what gimmick actually got the guy over. I think a very high if not 100% of all successful pro wrestlers are just very charasmatic and have the look and energy to get themselves over. They can rise above any gimmick and make themselves shine. Look at The Million Dollar Man- this is a great gimmick. I love the gimmick but Ted Dibase Sr the wrestler just couldnt make it out of the mid card level. He just did not have that extra gift to make the fans really buy into him and to make the management trust him with more responsibilities. Id be interested if anyone can come up with a gimmick that actually made the wrestler. Something completly opposite from a guys personality where he had to struggle to pull of the gimmick, yet the gimmick was so good he was a huge star.

Are you serious? The Million Dollar Man was the best heel on the brand for the late 80s and even into the early 90s with Money Inc. He was supposed to win the belt at Wrestlemania IV, becoming the first heel to ever win on the grandest stage of them all. He was able to get instant heat by beating up jobbers then stuffing a C Note down their throat. Awesome stuff.

As for the right gimmick getting anyone over, yes I believe that's the case. But it's more so that the gimmick has to fit the person than just the gimmick itself getting someone over. I always go back to O'Haire's devil's advocate gimmick. That was an incredibly awesome gimmick and he cut some great promos with it, but when he came out to face people in matches, he couldn't play off the gimmick at all. It didn't fit his style.

 

[cbreezy]

iv heard it said a million times, "talent get over best as an over exaggerated versions of their own real personalities."

 

[mrpops]

No. Simple as that. Its obvious when you think about it. Im not trying to bash you but yeah...

 

[Sheamus' Suntan]

I love how some people turn around and just plainly say no, and some actually give discussion.

Plainly speaking, I DO think...if the gimmick meshes with the person...then YES, they'll get over. But they HAVE to mesh well. This is probably why those who have a gimmick that's an extension of their own personalities get over so well. Thats my own personal take on it.

 

[FSWWE]

Crock have said it all.
It's not about the gimmick, but who portrays the gimmick!

The rich guy was portrayed by Ted DiBiase Sr. and JBL very well, they simply fit in the character and their personality were really perfect for that.
They tried to make Ted DiBiase Jr. work with his father gimmick, but he couldn't, and I dare to say that the main fault was is looks, he looks a lot more like a model than a rich bastard and heartless guy, so he doesn't fit.
Can you imagine Randy Orton being Bob Orton 2.0? Hell No!! Not a chance!! However he is massively over with his Viper gimmick as well as is old Legend Killer gimmick.

Who's gimmick would you change right now and what into to help get them over?

Right now, I think that Drew McIntyre needs to change his gimmick.
In the first place his former Chosen One gimmick was absolutely perfect because he has really all the tools to be a main eventer in the future, and he just moves like a champ.
But as we can see Drew McIntyre isn't going nowhere on RAW, and especially has a heel.
I've read somewhere that he is now called "The American Nightmare" but we haven't seen anything yet.
We have to wait, he is in a divorce problem so he has a lot of things to think and not only his career.
One funny thing is that Dusty Rhodes is the American Dream, and now Drew McIntyre is the American Nightmare... A feud going one?? xD

Could faces benefit from stronger gimmicks as well as heels, or should heels be over the top, like they are lately and faces more connectible and "human"?

I didn't really understand this question. But can you imagine a disfigured face working?
They need to make him grow as a heel and then make him a face when the fans ask for it.

Randy Orton was built as a heel (The Legend Killer) and know he is a almost a mega-face.
John Cena was built as a heel too, and now he is the face of the company.
They are examples of gimmick success, so right now they are massively over.

But faces need to have a strong gimmick by the time pass.
HHH was a heel w/ gimmick, but never a face w/ gimmick that he actually portrayed.
So the bottom line is that every guy needs to be heel throughout their careers more than once.