Can a big name from a small company successfully move up

[Father:_Polley]

This question came to me this afternoon when I was thinking about all the debate on 'big names' from the likes of ROH etc. There is no doubt in my mind that the likes of AJ Styles and CM Punk have proven that it is possible to make the move to larger companies and become successful, but what about the other names?

Now, this question has two prongs to it, since I believe that yes, it is possible to make the move up to bigger companies, and just because some have failed, doesn't mean all will. But I can't help think of the likes of ECW and WCW. Both companies had big names (RVD, Raven Diamond Dallas Page, Booker T), yet not one of these names ever enjoyed the success attained by say HHH or Undertaker - mainstays in the company.

Take Vader...massive in Japan, a success in WCW, but Vince seemed to have reluctance to push him to the levels he attained elsewhere.

So with my thoughts in mind...is it better to be the big fish in a smaller pond, than to move up and be buried by the HHHs of the bigger leagues.

Remember, this is not a spam forum...justify your reasons

 

[TomSmithUK]

It depends purely on their character, work ethic and generally how over they are. There are good examples one way or the other. So I abstain from voting.

Raven, in ECW, was the biggest character, he was insanely over, and he sort of sent that over to WCW, but not to WWE. The thing was, the cult figure worked better in the 'cult like' ECW, was it Sandman's son who adopted the Raven pose? That sort of angle is too provocative for WWE to have risked screening. The crucifixion thing, also, was far to controverial to gamble on with a bigger company. So as soon as he transferred from to the Bigger companies, his character had to be toned down, and his storylines grew tamer. This inevitably led to him not being anywhere near as successful.

Sandman, although, not as talented as Raven, didn't work as Hak in WCW and certainly looked out of place in WWE. He was over, but the guys entire gimmick was his being drunk, not entirely fitting in the era of WWE he joined. One of the best things Sandman had going for him was his dedication, the storyline in ECW where he was blinded, and he actually stayed in his house for a month so he wasn't seen on the street (it being a local promotion), was incredible. But relied more on the intimate relationship ECW had with it's audience. As soon as you hit the road you lose that.

The problem with being in a smaller, less restrictive promotion, is that inevitably, you'll have your 'career moment' too soon. If Austin's 3:16 promo had been cut in ECW, he wouldn't have been the same Stone Cold we had. If Mankind took the sick bumps off of, let's say scaffolding, in a smaller company, yes, he would have got a huge pop, but it wouldn't have helped him in the big time.

It's not whether someone successful from a small company can move up, it's whether they do it before they become associated with a moment from that stint.

 

[schoondog]

99% of the time the answer is no, and the reason is vince mcmahon. His ego won't allow it. Look at booker T, it took him what 5 years to win the world title, chris benoit was a just a transitional champion and vince even messed up flairs first jump to the WWE. The thing with vince is and everyone knows this, he wants it to be his creation. So when a talent makes the jump to the WWE vince basically breaks him down and if the talent is lucky enough maybe he will get a push a few years down the line.

 

[Shocky]

I would say no. Kevin Kelly said it best in his old columns and on here, especially when the Vader question was brought up. Vince simply doesn't think people exist outside of the WWF/E, and that whatever they have done elsewhere is irrelevant.

However, I do think people in smaller companies may have an advantage over guys that get established in a 2nd tier company. Guys like Vader, or Ron Simmons were dead men walking into the WWE. Not only were they in another company, but they were champions of that company. Sure tons of guys like Austin, Taker, Helmsley, Foley... all cut their teeth in WCW, but they didn't touch the "gold", so they weren't tainted.

When you look at guys with smaller companies that made an impact recently, only a few come to mind. AJ Styles is highly debatable. As much of a phenom this guy is and a true joy to watch, he's still a virtual unknown in the world of professional wrestling. He may become the next sting, as in the next best person to never compete for Vince McMahon. However, TNA is no WCW, and his name just isn't out there.

Rob Van Dam. He was the only guy from ECW's original run to sniff a world title outside of Philadelphia. He is arguably the most successful guy.

CM Punk. Like it or not, the guy is a champion from ROH. I don't have a problem with his title run like some others do.

You could make the argument that Raven is pretty well known in the wrestling world, but I'm not quite sure he's up there in recognition with the likes of RVD and the Current CM PUnk (time will tell how well people remember Punk, but I honestly think he's going to be a "WWE" guy by the time his career is over.)

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Is it possible? Yes, like Shocky said, people like RVD and C.M. Punk have made it big. So why can't others? I see it like this. RVD was a WWE guy after awhile plus he also had this incredible fan backing to get him to the top. C.M. Punk like it or not is a WWE guy too. I don't see him going anywhere for a long time. The only reason why I think it is not possible is because Vince does not like to push people He did not create. Which is why only a select few ever only got the chance to succeed in WWE.

Now if we are talking about TNA then my answer is yes. They don't care if they push a top guy from another business because it is in the company's best interests. They are still a company on the rise so until they reach WWE's levels...If ever they will continue to push superstars.

So in the WWE it is possible but not probable, in TNA there is a good chance until they reach the level of WWE.

 

[foundation611]

I would say no. Kevin Kelly said it best in his old columns and on here, especially when the Vader question was brought up. Vince simply doesn't think people exist outside of the WWF/E, and that whatever they have done elsewhere is irrelevant.

However, I do think people in smaller companies may have an advantage over guys that get established in a 2nd tier company. Guys like Vader, or Ron Simmons were dead men walking into the WWE. Not only were they in another company, but they were champions of that company. Sure tons of guys like Austin, Taker, Helmsley, Foley... all cut their teeth in WCW, but they didn't touch the "gold", so they weren't tainted.

When you look at guys with smaller companies that made an impact recently, only a few come to mind. AJ Styles is highly debatable. As much of a phenom this guy is and a true joy to watch, he's still a virtual unknown in the world of professional wrestling. He may become the next sting, as in the next best person to never compete for Vince McMahon. However, TNA is no WCW, and his name just isn't out there.

Rob Van Dam. He was the only guy from ECW's original run to sniff a world title outside of Philadelphia. He is arguably the most successful guy.

CM Punk. Like it or not, the guy is a champion from ROH. I don't have a problem with his title run like some others do.

You could make the argument that Raven is pretty well known in the wrestling world, but I'm not quite sure he's up there in recognition with the likes of RVD and the Current CM PUnk (time will tell how well people remember Punk, but I honestly think he's going to be a "WWE" guy by the time his career is over.)

Man I could not have said it better myself. RVD is the only really successful ECW guy outside of ECW. I'd say Lance Storm was relatively successful on a smaller scale with all the titles he held in WCW and WWE but that's it. RVD blew his title opportunity but at least he got it, and even then it seemed that Vince gave it to him grudgingly because of how sick he was over with the fans. He was insanely over with them. Even his 3 week title run happened due to outside interference from Edge. RVD couldn't even win it outright. Vince doesn't like success in other companies and even his wanting to change people's names once they come over proves it. Instead of building on their pre-existing fan base and their name he changes the name re brands them and tries to get them over the WWE way. The only reason anyone even cares about "Evan Bourne" is because Matt Sydal is just plain good and has the best SSP in the business.
Someone even mentioned how Vince messed up Flair in his first run. He really dropped the ball on that one IMO. Missing out on Flair and Hogan really headlining a WM. Loved Booker T and yes it took him forever to get 1 relatively forgettable World title reign and only after he was changed to King Booker. There are only a handful of WCW/non WWE guys who came to WWE and even won a world title. Most of them were like Ricky Steamboat who got an IC title run and then became the crappy dragon later on in his career. If you've been successful in another company Vince won't push you as much as possible because you weren't HIS guy first.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

It depends. If the crowd is whitehot for a certain guy(aka RVD, Booker T) then they may recieve a piush. But when those two joined the company, they already had the big 4 (Triple H, Undertaker, Rock and Austin), along with the already established WWE stars.

Booker only got the title shot due to inmuries(which was a shame, he was ready before his HHHoliness squashed him and practically killed his push, likewise with RVD)

CM Punk holds the gold now because he is not on the same brand as Triple H /Taker. Look at the Edge suituation, he carried Smackdown for close to a year before being squashed by Triple H the first week into his Smackdown "career".

Its not how good you are in the WWe, its how good you are at policticaling. Hence why JBL got a 9 month title rain, despite not being that good in the ring, and Triple H getting a title reign whenever he wants one.