Calgary Region, Seattle Subregion: First Round: (15) Christian vs. (18) The Miz

[FitFinlay4Life]

Kayfabe - should Christian meet the Miz now with both guys being were they are now on the WWe totum pole, who would win? Most people are going with Mr Mizanin but I think an important factor is being ignored - this is not a WWe title match. In a non title match, I actually think the former Christian Cage has the distinct edge to set up a future Championship bout - see how the Lawler feud was established, or how Jack Swagger beat Kofi Kingston on Smackdown to set up a WM IC match.

Career - Christian has the massive edge here. He has more reigns, he has clean victories over far more higher calibre opponents and has been presented as a serious contender more often and consistently.

Prior to November last year, next to no one would pick the 'Awesome!' one over 'Captain Charisma' and his three month reign til today doesn't persuade me to do it now. Really? Really!

The Instant Classic goes over with the Unprettier.

 

[Alastor]

If we are to use Christian's longer career as a plus for him, then the Miz should also be able to make his case with him having a brighter prospect than Christian. In an era whereby titles are used as props and doesn't mean much, what can be considered the highest accomplishment? The answer is headlining Wrestlemania with the biggest face of the company. Nobody knows what will happen in the future, the Miz could just as easily fall back into the mid-card blackhole but headlining Wrestlemania with the biggest name in the company means WWE have great faith in him. His prospect is more than an equalizer for Christian having a longer career.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

If we are to use Christian's longer career as a plus for him, then the Miz should also be able to make his case with him having a brighter prospect than Christian. In an era whereby titles are used as props and doesn't mean much, what can be considered the highest accomplishment? The answer is headlining Wrestlemania with the biggest face of the company. Nobody knows what will happen in the future, the Miz could just as easily fall back into the mid-card blackhole but headlining Wrestlemania with the biggest name in the company means WWE have great faith in him. His prospect is more than an equalizer for Christian having a longer career.

It's not the longevity it's the perception. In his seven years in the WWe, the Miz has had maybe a dozen (and that might be over-stretching) 'strong' singles wins. As such he comes across as undeserving. Now, in fairness this appears to have been lessened with WM on the horizon as A-Ri's influence on matches have been downgraded in Miz wins over JoMo, Daniel Bryan and Jerry Lawler. However, Christian had a great number of clean wins over every level of star over the same career stretch.

Now being the last match at WM is a ringing endorsement. However Cena and the Rock's involvement in said match are not - they are proof that he doesn't have the clout to carry the main event himself, otherwise he'd be headlining against say JoMo, Sheamus or even IC Champ Bryan. If the main event flops in comparison to Taker/ HHH or Edge/ Del Rio (/Christian?), who do you think will take the fall - John, Dwayne or Mike? Prospect is nice - but has to be realised. Jack Swagger and Sheamus both had prospects as champions - Swagger is now regarded as an Angle pastiche and Sheamus just got squashed by Mark Henry. Now both guys are looking like they're heading into WM to have time filling matches for the forgettable IC and US belts.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Now, I'm willing to bet that Cena wins the title at Mania, beating Miz, and that continues the streak of mid-carders who have short lived title reigns and fall back to mid-card status until once again getting another go at the top branch later on.

I really just wanted to address this. The last person to hold the belt longer than The Miz was Triple H back in 08. If he loses at Mania, it'll will be the longest WWE Championship reign in almost 3 years. I think this speaks volumes about the current state of the WWE. No one gets long reigns anymore, so by current standards, The Miz's reign is an amazing accomplishment.

On a sidenote, I find it hilarious that someone who supported EDGE in the past few years is bashing Miz for not defending his title cleanly. Until his recent face turn, Edge never won clean. Miz is doing this by the book of heel, and his doing an excellent job. The last thing you can call his reign is transitional.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I really just wanted to address this. The last person to hold the belt longer than The Miz was Triple H back in 08. If he loses at Mania, it'll will be the longest WWE Championship reign in almost 3 years. I think this speaks volumes about the current state of the WWE. No one gets long reigns anymore, so by current standards, The Miz's reign is an amazing accomplishment.

And I can say Edge's 11 Heavyweight Championship reigns are so amazing that he deserves to go over the likes of Steve Austin, the Undertaker and Hulk Hogan - but truly smart individuals will see directly through that (well, now ) and understand that even though he has more reigns as Champion - it's what he did with them, that was less attractive.

That same understanding works in place here. Yes, Miz will have been the longest reigning Champion in years, as it were.. but who has he beaten without massive amounts of help? Infact, Edge at least defeated Flair in a TLC match without help - Miz has yet to prove he can even beat Lawler without the slightest interference from Riley. Miz was getting squashed by Cena before this year, and even with Riley - I doubt much will change.

Miz has only defeated Orton in a warped sense of the term. He's retained via countouts, or DQs. Maybe he's won because Riley pulled Miz through a broken table that he broke himself, to win in typical heel fashion.

He only JUST defeated an aged Jerry Lawler, and even then he needed Riley to interfere 3 times before he was kicked out - and then, Miz struggled a lot before finally winning. Christian is not an aged announcer who's prime was 20 years prior.

Miz can hold the title for the next 2 years. If that reign is similar to the past 2 months, it won't make him worth a damn as a Champion; because he won't have done anything to deserve the acknowledgement. And the same was considered for a lot of Edge's reigns, unfortunately.

On a sidenote, I find it hilarious that someone who supported EDGE in the past few years is bashing Miz for not defending his title cleanly. Until his recent face turn, Edge never won clean. Miz is doing this by the book of heel, and his doing an excellent job. The last thing you can call his reign is transitional.

1.) Yes, he is doing this as a typical heel and he's making it work. That's why he is carrying the title into Mania to likely get squashed and put over the face.

2.) Even as a die-hard Edge fan, I never once defended his 1st title reign because he was every bit of a "transitional" Champion. He was handed the title for 3 weeks to test run how he'd handle it. Obviously, 10 more reigns later, the Company felt he was worthy of it. Miz has 1.. Mania may be his final stop as Champion, or maybe - just maybe - he'll retain and shock everyone, myself included. The bigger question is, once he loses the title.. will he ever get it back? I'd be more willing to bet Miz will be similar to Swagger and fall back to the mid-card ranks than he'd ever be like Edge and win the belt even 1 more time, much less 10.

As it relates to this match, Miz can use all the heel tactics he wants. Christian is more considered to be like Orton, or Cena, in this situation than he would be like a guy such as Lawler. And thus far, unless a table is involved - Miz has lost more to those other two, than he's won via pinfall.

Christian should win this one quite easily.

 

[Alastor]

It's not the longevity it's the perception. In his seven years in the WWe, the Miz has had maybe a dozen (and that might be over-stretching) 'strong' singles wins. As such he comes across as undeserving. Now, in fairness this appears to have been lessened with WM on the horizon as A-Ri's influence on matches have been downgraded in Miz wins over JoMo, Daniel Bryan and Jerry Lawler. However, Christian had a great number of clean wins over every level of star over the same career stretch.

Now being the last match at WM is a ringing endorsement. However Cena and the Rock's involvement in said match are not - they are proof that he doesn't have the clout to carry the main event himself, otherwise he'd be headlining against say JoMo, Sheamus or even IC Champ Bryan. If the main event flops in comparison to Taker/ HHH or Edge/ Del Rio (/Christian?), who do you think will take the fall - John, Dwayne or Mike? Prospect is nice - but has to be realised. Jack Swagger and Sheamus both had prospects as champions - Swagger is now regarded as an Angle pastiche and Sheamus just got squashed by Mark Henry. Now both guys are looking like they're heading into WM to have time filling matches for the forgettable IC and US belts.

Could you name some of the so called clean wins over main eventers during Christian's career stretch? I am unfamiliar with his work in TNA but I always remembered him having his coalition helping him more often than not. I am sure the Miz have a comparable mid-card record to Christian if we are to compare their runs with the second-tier titles. The only advantage Christian have here is a longer run in the spotlight compare to the Miz. But the Miz have the spotlight shining brighter on him right now than it has ever been on Christian.

Bashing the Miz for not being able to headline Wrestlemania by himself in this debate is plain illogical. If the Miz is up against Cena or Hogan then it is a legitimate point. But he is up against Christian. Are you saying Christian will be able to draw by himself? I highly doubt so. Everyone knows Cena is the draw in the match, but the Miz being picked to be in the match speaks volume.You even proved the point that Christian is not a big enough draw by adding Christian as part of a hypothetical triple threat match with Edge and Del Rio. He always needed Edge, Tomko or someone else to draw.

Both men are actually pretty much equals with their records if you take an objective view to them except for one thing: Miz is the WWE champ and is headlining wrestlemania.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Christian v Miz would be a very good even match, but I am going with the experience advantage of Cage to give him a hard-faught victory.

Miz has come on leaps and bounds in the last year, but looking at the resume of both men he is still an underdog in this one. Christian has had HIGE amounts of success in his career and is still young enough not to be called a veteran. I cannot see how the Miz can take down Cage in this one, he would not quite be able to put him away.

I am going for a surprise roll up from Christian at 11 minutes, with both men rightfully being able to claim they could have won, but Cage gets the W

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I really do not understand people who say Miz has come far, and Christian would win by surprising Miz, or in a shocking upset. Uhm, no? Christian would win, yes, but it wouldn't be shocking - or an upset.

Christian has defeated Shawn Michaels in the same type of value, if not more-so that Miz has beaten Orton. Whereas Christian has went on to defeat such names as Kurt Angle, Jeff Jarrett and Sting - Miz hasn't really beaten any other major names. He's lost almost every match-up he's ever had against John Cena - except the ones he made whenever Cena wouldn't show up. He has barely been able to defeat Jerry Lawler, even well beyond his prime.

Miz has no chance at this match, because Miz simply doesn't have the tools or ability to defeat someone like Christian.

Yes, he's won a Heavyweight title. He should be proud of that. But let us not forget, Jack Swagger, Vince McMahon and David Arquette have also been former "World Champions" at one time or another. So just "winning" the title means less than it seems when you use the phrase.

 

[Alastor]

I understand that popularity plays a part in this competition but there is really very little to separate the two if you look at their resumes. Both were tag team wrestlers that had great mid card careers. Both made it to the main event, Christian in TNA and Miz currently in the WWE. Miz has not faced many big names in his new level at the card yet so it is unfair to compare the names they have defeated. Was there a team Christian at Survivor Series? I remember a Team Miz recently. Funny HBK was brought up because as of right now Miz is the HBK of his tag team while Christian is the Jannetty of his. You can argue that you voted for Christian because you like him better, but to say he is definitely better is not true. Their records are not that different from each other, except that Miz has reach a higher peak compared to Christian.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Christian has defeated Shawn Michaels in the same type of value, if not more-so that Miz has beaten Orton. Whereas Christian has went on to defeat such names as Kurt Angle, Jeff Jarrett and Sting - Miz hasn't really beaten any other major names. He's lost almost every match-up he's ever had against John Cena - except the ones he made whenever Cena wouldn't show up. He has barely been able to defeat Jerry Lawler, even well beyond his prime.

Miz has no chance at this match, because Miz simply doesn't have the tools or ability to defeat someone like Christian.

I understand where you're coming from with this, but in a kayfabe sense, Christian is easily lower than Miz on the food chain right now.

For instance, Miz beat Kofi and DB clean in the past few weeks, and Christian isn't booked to be any stronger than these guys. As you can see, Christian's most recent feud has been with Alberto Del Rio, the same guy Kofi is currently feuding with.

At this point in both of their careers, I think Miz would be booked to win over Christian. It might not be clean, but I think he would win nonetheless.

 

[Alex]

Personally I can name more memorable matches that Christian has been in than Miz (yes Christian has been around longer but still) Yes Miz is good on the mic but Christian seems slightly more comfortable with it. While Miz's WWE title defences have been good, Christian's reign(s) with the NWA title were far more interesting, not to mention his defences were slightly more impressive (Kurt Angle, Sting etc) and if we're counting his reigns as ECW champion, he was the only reason to watch the show in its last days.