Black Athletes and Guns

[IrishCanadian25]

Early Friday morning, New York Giants discontented star receiver Plaxico Buress was out at a nightclub in NYC called "The Latin Quarter" with starting middle linebacker Antonio Peirce. Plax was packing heat, as many athletes do. When the gun slipped from him, he tried to grab it, and shot himself in the leg. Peirce took Plax to the hospital, and may have allegedly helped hide the gun, because it is not believed that Plax had a license or registration for it.

Plaxico now faces criminal charges. But what we actually have here is far deeper.

What you truly have is another African-American Athlete with a handgun in public.

After Sebastan Tellfair was caught sneaking a gun on the team plane in a pillowcase, after Stephen Jackson of the Indiana Pacers was found to have fired several rounds in the air during an altercation outside an Indianapolis Strip Club, after a gun incident involving PacMan Jones caused a man to be paralyzed, Buress now goes out to a club, with a gun, and thankfuly only shoots himself, and not some innocent employee or bystander.

What would be a debate about pro athletes and guns is now fully entrenched in the racial divide, as every major story about felonious gunplay involved African-American athletes.

Whether it's Burress, Jackson, Tank Johnson, PacMan Jones, or any other athlete, the common denominators are clear: African American athlete, night club / strip club, loaded weapon.

The questions this leads to are simple. Is this a problem stemming from the African American / Hip-Hop culture, where guns are often romanticized? Do black athletes truly conceal firearms for protection? Is it only a black athlete issue, or is racism in the media contributing to the sensationalism of these incidents?

Incidents with athletes and guns are reaching epidemic levels. It seems every year, you can't get away from another story of an NFL or NBA player and their gun. But why don't we hear about it in Major League Baseball or the National Hockey League?

This is a powder-keg of a topic, but it's one that isn't going away, and I for one am sick of the violence surrounding pro athletes. And I bet Sean Taylor's family would agree with me.

Here's an excerpt from a blog by Sports Media America:

If these anti-athlete crimes were spread across the racial or ethnic spectrum, then maybe the anti-gun advocates could make their points with singular certitude. That, alas, is not the case. Blacks are targeting blacks. The culture of guns in America might be problematic, but the culture of guns in the African American community is absolutely deadly. And apparently it isn’t stopping.

Ralph Wiley wrote this a few years back when Allen Iverson was having run in's with the law stemming from handguns:

"Handguns are not symbols. If around, they are not exactly going to keep people from getting shot. Once Tupac was caught up in the Thug Life, he acted like he reveled in it all. The role he played in "Juice" was homage to Jimmy Cagney in "Angels With Dirty Faces." Only he tried to live it, somehow. But you don't live that life. You die it."

From Michael Butterworth of "The Agon:"

I'm not sure what to make of all these incidents. I certainly don't have the answer. But more than the tragedy of the lives lost or forever altered, is our unwillingness to change our cultural attitudes that enable such tragedies in the first place. This isn't about demonizing young African American males. It isn't about scapegoating hip-hop. It's about coming to terms with a culture of violence that we have all helped to create. Maybe we can't take away the guns. But perhaps we could alter the conditions that make guns desirable in the first place. We have to start somewhere.

 

[BooCocky]

in all honesty I can't help but laugh. There's safety locks on guns so i think Pierce and Burress' story is shit. If you go out and believe you need a gun you shouldn't go out. It's that simple. When you go out, go to a safer place. Don't go club hopping in NYC, thats just idiotic. A "normal" citizen is a target when you go out to these places, especially in a crowded place like a club. The athletes are targets though because everyone knows who they are, everyone knows they carry some money, or have some nice piece of "bling". So if athletes go to safer places they shouldn't have to worry about being gunned down.

Well baseball players aren't getting in trouble during the season because they travel on like an every day basis, so its hard to go out during the night when you have to be in by a certain time. Shit sometimes after a game, they get cleaned up and head on a plane to the next city.

The Sean Taylor incident was a weird one, I feel sorry, but when those people went into his house they were expecting an empty house because the Redskins were traveling and they were expecting Sean to travel with them. They forgot one thing though, he was injured and didnt make the flight.

 

[CCS]

I realy dont know if it's just black athletes that carry guns (I doubt it is) but it realy doesnt matter. They shouldnt carry guns into ANY public place unless they either A. Have a permitt or B.They're a law enforcement officer. I dont think Plaxico is A or B. He could've killed an innocent person in that club because he wanted too look big and carry a gun. I inderstand that athletes are targets for criminals but seriously , They could do 2 things that would make them less of a target. 1. Dont wear expensive jewelry in night clubs. 2. Hire a BODYGUARD. If athletes would do those two things i realy think it would be less of a problem. I'd hate to see it happen but it's looking like the NFL might have to start putting No Gun ownership clauses in their contracts.

 

[The Bearded One]

I may be the only one to think this, but athletes, and other high profile people, shouldn't go to clubs. There needs to be some kind of clause put in their contracts. It seems as if every week or two we hear of somebody getting shot at a club. As people listed above, the Pacman Jones, Stephen Jackson, and Plaxico cases all happened at a club. Richard Collier, a guard for the Jaguars, got shot after an altercation, for lack of a better word, with somebody at a night club. Collier is now paralyzed from the waist down and had a leg amputated. Although people should not fire guns for any reason other than self defense, these athletes need to be smart enough to understand that they need to avoid nightclubs.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I'm sorry but this guy is an idiot. He has claimed that the only reason why he brought the hand gun in with him was for his own protection. First off if your going some place where you feel like your in danger don't go. But if you think you have to or just want to and are a millionaire like he is, hire a body guard. He also said he was scared that he was going to get robbed, yet he wore a bunch of "bling bling" and was carrying a heft sum of money on him, so if he was in fear of being robbed maybe he shouldn't flaunt his wealth. But he has the right to but still come on, you already feel like you will be trageted for being a celebrity so you put on 100k worth of diamonds and carry a couple of grand?

As for black sports players and guns, they are just playing into the stereotypes that "black" people are labelled. This guys are all highprofiled and are in the public eye so when they get arrested for guns and what no people on TV see this, and assume all black people are like that(which is wrong but it happens). One thing though that could be brought up is that maybe white sports players get in trouble with guns and such but they are not punished or are let go so the media doesn't find out. I doubt it but it's something to think about.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

This seems to be a common theme in todays society....Black athletes, nightclubs, and guns....There was no reason for Plaxico Burress to go to a nightclub with a gun....Instead of showing his teammates he wants to be back on the field by staying home and rehabbing, he makes a stupid decision to go to a nightclub....It could have been much worse if a civilian got hurt or killed....I believe he isn't going to play for the New York Giants again...What Antonio Pierce did was just as stupid also....He is going to get in as much trouble for trying to throw away the gun as Burress is for having it....I can sort of sympathize with the athletes because some do get robbed at gunpoint, but there is no use to bring a gun with you....If you ever have the urge to go to a nightclub and bring protection with you, just stay home....He's been a huge distraction for the Giants since winning the Super Bowl and I believe they can replace him.

 

[X]

I sincerely hope that Plax goes to jail for a few years atleast. The guy is just as bad as TO or Chad Johnson ever have been, yet doesn't recieve even a fraction of the criticism those two guys do.

The fact that he shot himself makes this even funnier. I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy. If someone else had shot him, then I could sympathize. But he would never have shot himself had he not broken the law. Further more, if you want to pretend to be a badass "gangsta" because you've got money and are in pro ball and you buy a gun, LEARN HOW TO FUCKING USE IT. Anyone over the age of 18 who accidentally shoots themself deserves it for not having the proper respect you ought to give to any firearm. It's not a toy Plax, though I'm sure in his mind that was all it was.

This is double hilarious for me personally, as not only does an asshole like Plax get his due, but now the G-Men are screwed for millions upon millions of dollars. Hilarious. That's what you get for giving a ticking time-bomb like Plax a contract like that.

Enjoy, New York. Further proof of you're wonderful history of hiring athletes with the worst personalities on Earth.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

What's more is that a friend of mine frequents the club where Plax shot himself, and there are apparently metal detectors EVERYWHERE. So Plax got in without going through security, further proof that athletes are treated differently.

But I don't want this Chit Chat thread to turn into a Plax-reaction talk. I really want to discuss the "gangsta mentality" of black athletes. So let me turn it up.

I am sick and tired of millionaire black athletes playing right into the hip-hop gangsta stereotype. They don't care that they are doing HUGE damage to race relations in the US, and this comes at an especially critical time as we've just elected our first black president. Why aren't more of these black athletes stepping up and rallying AGAINST guns and the hip-hop culture? Where are black athletic role models in the NBA and the NFL? Well, more the NFL, because at least the NBA has LeBron, D-Wade, and KG.

And here's another thing - where the hell are Sharpton and James, those two hypocrites who have no issue fanning racial flames but refuse to put out the fires!? When the Pac-man issue occured and Don Imus made another "off color" racial comment, there they were, calling for his head. But where are they now, trying to get the Rainbow Coalition and their legion of clones to end this gangsta lifestyle that so many are trying to live? Why is everyone trying to be Tupac all of a sudden?

Sick of it. As a middle-class white suburban male, I am supposed to feel guilty for the racial divide. Guys like Plax make me question that.

 

[jmt225]

IC bro, you are heavily overreacting to this. Dude, for every black NFL player you name who has had trouble with the law, I can name well over 100 of those who haven't.

Terrell Owens is one of the most hated people in all of sports, but you know what? The guy has not once had any trouble with the law and really is a good role model once you look past his feuds with his former quarterbacks. He talks properly, doesn’t cuss in interviews, doesn’t carry himself off the field like a 'thug', ect.

Other top black athletes in the NFL like Reggie Bush, LaDainian Tomlinson, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Shawn Marion, Champ Bailey, Ryan Grant, Michael Strahan (retired, I know, but he's still fresh on people's minds nonetheless), Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, and I could go on and on here are all Superstars in the NFL who have had ZERO trouble with the law since becoming professional football players and truly are great role models to their respective community. And there are HUNDREDS of more black athletes who aren't 'superstars' who follow the rules and are good role models.

You shouldn't let the actions of someone like Pacman, Plax, and a couple of others judge, basically, an entire race of people.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

IC bro, you are heavily overreacting to this. Dude, for every black NFL player you name who has had trouble with the law, I can name well over 100 of those who haven't.

Terrell Owens is one of the most hated people in all of sports, but you know what? The guy has not once had any trouble with the law and really is a good role model once you look past his feuds with his former quarterbacks. He talks properly, doesn’t cuss in interviews, doesn’t carry himself off the field like a 'thug', ect.

Other top black athletes in the NFL like Reggie Bush, LaDainian Tomlinson, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Shawn Marion, Champ Bailey, Ryan Grant, Michael Strahan (retired, I know, but he's still fresh on people's minds nonetheless), Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, and I could go on and on here are all Superstars in the NFL who have had ZERO trouble with the law since becoming professional football players and truly are great role models to their respective community. And there are HUNDREDS of more black athletes who aren't 'superstars' who follow the rules and are good role models.

You shouldn't let the actions of someone like Pacman, Plax, and a couple of others judge, basically, an entire race of people.

YES! Now THIS is what I am looking for!

Now, let me say this - what a dozen or so athletes do doesn't dictate how I feel about an entire race of people. That'd be ridiculous. A large part of the gun-issue with athletes has nothing to do with race or culture, and EVERYTHING to do with a sense of entitlement that some athletes feel they have.

But you also cannot deny the presence of the very violent hip-hop culture coming out in many athletes. It exists, and it's frightening. And am I expected to ignore the existance of this particular issue "for the greater good?" If so, go tell that to the bouncer who is a parapalegic after the Pac Man incident.

 

[jmt225]

But you also cannot deny the presence of the very violent hip-hop culture coming out in many athletes. It exists, and it's frightening. And am I expected to ignore the existance of this particular issue "for the greater good?" If so, go tell that to the bouncer who is a parapalegic after the Pac Man incident.

But 'Hip-Hop Culture' doesn't necessarily equal 'violence'. Hip-Hop is just a style. Most black guys I've ever known (and I've known a lot of them) are way more concerned about making money and fucking bitches then they are shooting somebody. Granted, every little crew has a nut in it who's trigger happy, but most athletes are smarter then that. They're worried about getting their family to a better neighborhood, worried about getting the new "hot" car, worried about fucking as many good-looking women as possible, ect. They don't go to a club to start anything violent. They go there to meet women and show off their new ridiculous high-priced outfits and cars.

However, yes... trouble does seem to find a black person who dresses in a way you would consider to be a part of the "very violent hip-hop culture" more so then it does a guy in a sweater and some slacks, but that's not their fault. Does seeking attention like they do more often then not lead to terrible situations for yourself? Absolutely, but that's never their intention. Most of them have just had a hard life and now that they have something to show for it, they want to have fun and showing off and getting people to ride their dick is a big part of them having fun.

And again, Pacman is one person. 95% of every other black player in the NFL would never, ever be apart of something like that.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Mr. IrishCanadian25,

It looks like you have done your research, and I will keep this post short, as I am not as well versed in this subject as you apparently are. However, have you ever considered that these African-American athletes' socio-economic backgrounds account for them being armed rather than their race (I am not aware of these athletes' origins)?

In higher education, for instance, affirmative action policies have come under criticism because they overwhelmingly favor minorities from affluent backgrounds. While I know this may seem to have little bearing on the issue at hand, I think it highlights the fact that those who favored affirmative action in colleges and universities confused the cause of little educational opportunity (i.e., little to no money and poor college/university preparation as a result) with one of its correlates (i.e., being a minority).

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Mr. IrishCanadian25,

It looks like you have done your research, and I will keep this post short, as I am not as well versed in this subject as you apparently are. However, have you ever considered that these African-American athletes' socio-economic backgrounds account for them being armed rather than their race (I am not aware of these athletes' origins)?

In higher education, for instance, affirmative action policies have come under criticism because they overwhelmingly favor minorities from affluent backgrounds. While I know this may seem to have little bearing on the issue at hand, I think it highlights the fact that those who favored affirmative action in colleges and universities confused the cause of little educational opportunity (i.e., little to no money and poor college/university preparation as a result) with one of its correlates (i.e., being a minority).

Love this post.

I have often argued that a major source of the racial divide and the statistical tendencies of urban violent crime to be committed by minorities is not skin color, and not race or national origin, but socio-economic status.

But here's the issue - the cultures that exist in that socio-economic status has embraced violence, crime, objectification of women, etc. to define itself. Look at the rapper 50-Cent. Here's a guy well known as someone who grew up in the projects and dealt drugs to make a living as a young "street thug." He's been shot, he's shot. Here are some of the lyrics from his song "In Da Club:"

When I pull out up front, you see the Benz on dubs
When I roll 20 deep, it's 20 knives in the club
*****s heard I fuck with Dre, now they wanna show me love
When you sell like Eminem, and the hoes they wanna fuck
But homie ain't nothing change hold down, G's up
I see Xzibit in the Cutt that ***** roll that weed up
If you watch how I move you'll mistake me for a playa or pimp
Been hit wit a few shells but I dont walk wit a limp​

And this from "How We Do:"

50, unh
Bentley, unh
Em came 'n gotta ***** fresh out the, slum
Automatic, gun
Fuck 'em one-on-one
We wrap up ya punk ass, stunt 'n ya done
Homie, it's Game time
[Game]
You ready? Here I come
Call Lloyd Banks and get this motherfucker, crunk
It took two, months
But Fifty got it done
Signed with G-unit
Had *****z like, "huh?"
Don't try to front
I'll leave yo' ass, slumped
Thinkin I'm a punk
Get your fuckin head, lumped
Fifty got a, gun​

Then, there is DMX, who glorifies the thug culture and addresses it SPECIFICALLY to young, African American Males. It's basically a "how to" list of being a thug. Get a gun, run with a posse, objectify women, shoot before you get shot. It's all well and good that these rap artists do this music to discuss the struggle on the streets, but when they do these songs to actually glorify the life, then turn around and show young kids the cars, women, money, jewelry, etc, what's expected to happen?

Link this back to Plaxico. He didn't have to go to that club, and he sure as hell didn't have to bring the gun. If he was worried about being ripped off, he didn't need a pocket full of bills or a mess of jewerly on.

Pac Man Jones didn't need to go to a strip club WITH A SACK OF MONEY, throwing it around like a big shot, only to try and take it back after he threw it at the girls. It's ridiculous.

Can anyone tell me that the current "gangsta hip hop culture" isn't detrimental to society???

Hip Hop TODAY is also a far removed, bastardized version of what it once was. Here's an excerpt from good ole' Wikipedia:

Early hip hop has often been credited with helping to reduce inner-city gang violence by replacing physical violence with dance and artwork battles. In the early 1970s, Kool DJ Herc began organizing dance parties in his home in the Bronx. The parties became so popular they were moved to outdoor venues to accommodate more people. City teenagers, after years of gang violence, were looking for new ways to express themselves. These outdoor parties, hosted in parks, became a means of expression and an outlet for teenagers, where “Instead of getting into trouble on the streets, teens now had a place to expend their pent-up energy.”

Tony Tone, a member of the pioneering rap group the Cold Crush Brothers, noted that “Hip-hop saved a lot of lives.” Hip hop culture became an outlet and a way of dealing with the hardships of life as minorities within America, and an outlet to deal with violence and gang culture. MC Kid Lucky mentions that “people used to break-dance against each other instead of fighting.” Inspired by Kool DJ Herc, once-gang leader Afrika Bambaataa created a street organization called Universal Zulu Nation, centered around hip hop, as a means to draw teenagers out of gang life and violence.

Hip hop was not centered around violence, drugs, and weapons like most people thought in the early days. Many people used hip hop in positive ways. "Young black Americans coming out of the civil rights movement have used hip hop culture in the 1980s and 1990s to show the limitations of the movement." Hip hop gave young black Americans a voice to let their issues be noticed. It also gave young blacks a chance for financial gain by "reducing the rest of the world to consumers of its social concerns."

Then, the worst thing happened. Hip-hop became commerically viable and socially acceptable, and there was money to be made. American Hip Hop is almost dead, and in it's place is Gangsta Rap, and one of many results is a growing number of young, rich, entitled athletes getting arrested for guns, drugs, cocaine, assault, and domestic violence.

 

[Shocky]

It's the culture, and unfortunately its a culture that is seen as a cool culture to be apart of. Now in no way is this indicative of the entire African American race, no way no sir, but the problems with a big group of athletes is taught from a young age, and in many ways, is encouraged.

As i started in the Kanye West thread, there is a generation of young black americans out there that feel they don't have to do things the hard way. It's what I call the Reverend Jackson or Al Sharpton effect. These two, bottomlining it, preach that if you sit with your hand out for a long enough time, someones going to put something in it. Whether it be the government putting money in it, or a gang banger putting drugs and a gun in it. Combine this with the culture of Gangster Rap (and yes, there is a difference between rap and hip hop), and you have overly negative influences on all of these players.

People try to make it out, and some do. The problem is when they get out, they are terrified that they are leaving their boyz behind. They don't want to be labeled as a sell out or an Uncle Tom, so they cling to their old style of living. With all of the entourages and troupes these guys hang with, it's nothing but bad, past influences on their lives. Instead of telling their posses to go fuck themselves, they do stupid shit, and use their money to enable all of their gang banging friends that still live in the ghetto.

It's beyond aggravating, but I have no sympathy for these people. It's a culture of degradation and self absorbance. It's a me first mentality that has pretty much put a chokehold on most urban centers in this country. Get a woman pregnant, screw it, that bitch didn't have my kid. Mom has a kid, fuck it, my mom will watch it for me when I go to the club. It's a damn shame, because these negative African Americans, whether gangstas or athletes, do so much damage to most African Americans that try to lead the straight and narrow life. It's these few that ruin it and leave negative stereotypes on the rest of their race.

Someone needs to come up, and bitch slap the reality into these athletes. My personal feeling that I've felt for a while was that all athletes should have a degree before they play professional ball. If you go into any business int eh corporate world, you either have to have a knowledge of the business, or a degree in that business. These athletes often leave straight from the ghetto into the Association (spare me the one year out of high school rule), or they simply use college as a crutch to get to the next league with no intention on getting an education. A basic background in the history of your sport so you respect it, financial classes, and all around good sportsmanship and proper ways to conduct yourself in public should be the norm. Also, contracts should be included that you can't be in situations like this. Plax was terrified he needed a gun because he would be noticed, well what the hell are you doing in a place at 4 in the fucking morning to begin with? What possibly could be going down at 4 in the morning that doesn't involve you being a dipshit.

 

[klunderbunker]

My oh my where do I begin.

To begin with, let me make this clear: Plaxico Burress, you are an idiot. I seriously don't get why you feel you need to bring a loaded weapon into a club. You want to go to a club? Fine. You're an adult of legal age. But why do you need a gun? I have never seen the logic of anyone, white, black, athlete, non athlete, that feels that everywhere you go you need to carry a weapon with you.

Now moving on. Another common theme here is the club. It seems that violence goes hand in hand with clubs. Why is that? I don't know. I don't go to clubs. Tony Kornheiser, one of the co-hosts of PTI, made an a great analogy a few years ago when Pacman was in trouble. He read the story of Pacman getting into an altercation at a club, and then reread the story with the word library in it instead of club. The story made no sense and was comical. The point-If you've gotten in trouble before, as guys like Pacman and Burress have, why keep going to clubs? You're a multimillionaire, a celebrity, in great physical shape. Are you telling me there's no other place in New York City that you can't go to have a good time?

Finally, does it have to do with hip hop culture? Perhaps. I would offer this though. Pacman Jones-West Virginia University, Burress-Michigan St, Tank Johnson-University of Washington. All fine schools. It seems to me that these people are all well educated men. It would seem to me that they would be smarter than this. Is this a racial issue? Not to me. I could just as easily see a caucasian athlete having these same issues. To me, it's a common sense issue. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't go to a club at 3 am with a loaded gun in your pocket!

 

[X]

Love this post.

I have often argued that a major source of the racial divide and the statistical tendencies of urban violent crime to be committed by minorities is not skin color, and not race or national origin, but socio-economic status.

But here's the issue - the cultures that exist in that socio-economic status has embraced violence, crime, objectification of women, etc. to define itself. Look at the rapper 50-Cent. Here's a guy well known as someone who grew up in the projects and dealt drugs to make a living as a young "street thug." He's been shot, he's shot. Here are some of the lyrics from his song "In Da Club:"



And this from "How We Do:"



Then, there is DMX, who glorifies the thug culture and addresses it SPECIFICALLY to young, African American Males. It's basically a "how to" list of being a thug. Get a gun, run with a posse, objectify women, shoot before you get shot. It's all well and good that these rap artists do this music to discuss the struggle on the streets, but when they do these songs to actually glorify the life, then turn around and show young kids the cars, women, money, jewelry, etc, what's expected to happen?

Link this back to Plaxico. He didn't have to go to that club, and he sure as hell didn't have to bring the gun. If he was worried about being ripped off, he didn't need a pocket full of bills or a mess of jewerly on.

Pac Man Jones didn't need to go to a strip club WITH A SACK OF MONEY, throwing it around like a big shot, only to try and take it back after he threw it at the girls. It's ridiculous.

Can anyone tell me that the current "gangsta hip hop culture" isn't detrimental to society???

Hip Hop TODAY is also a far removed, bastardized version of what it once was. Here's an excerpt from good ole' Wikipedia:



Then, the worst thing happened. Hip-hop became commerically viable and socially acceptable, and there was money to be made. American Hip Hop is almost dead, and in it's place is Gangsta Rap, and one of many results is a growing number of young, rich, entitled athletes getting arrested for guns, drugs, cocaine, assault, and domestic violence.

I completely understand your point IC, I really do. But I think gangsta rap recieves FAR too much criticism it does not deserve. Yes it deals with violence, drugs, sexism, and crime. So do video games. So do many of the most acclaimed and popular films of all time. People seem to forget that gangsta rap is still an art form, whether you enjoy it or not. To blame rap for influencing black males to try and act like "thugs' is ridiculious unless you're also willing to make the claim that Marilyn Manson inspires school shootings and video games turn kids into killers, or that if you play "Suicide Solution" backwards you'll want to kill yourself. It's an age old debate that people seem to instantly forget when dealing with gangsta rap because instead of a metal artist singing a song about killing yourself, it's a black male singing a song about killing someone else.

Art is not a scapegoat for society's problems; it's a reflection of those problems.

 

[Darkshot77]

Damnit here I go on another one of my disconjoined rants.

Plax is borderline retarted, just like has been mentioned before if your afraid of being robbed, dont carry rolls of $100 bills and buy Cristal for a VIP group, its not gonna work.

Much like Eko said, If you're going to blame rap music, you have to spred it around to tv, movies, and other media sources.

But the gangster immage is a real problem. Constantly being told that "The Man" is putting you down. And that you can do what ever you want cause others will take care of you. Telling you that its ok to always get handouts. There are poor people then there are lazy people, of all races, who dont care enough to better themselves cause life is easy and good enough. And the scary thing is one president elect thinks that making it easier for these people will help the country, but thts a differant subject.

See its not rap music but rappers that are the problem, see a rapper is no more than a wrestler, an entertainer. Whether they beleive what they say or not, thats their image, see there are young people who are selecting these people as rolemodels. Who beleive that if Fitty cent says it and i wanna be successful like him i should do it.

KB mentioned about the collages these athletes went to, but that has no bearing on their academic performance. Coaches have alot of back stage pull on weather or not a student is inellegible, cause they rake in alot of money for the school.

KB also brought up an intersting point about the uncle toms. See the succesfull black man dosent want to betray his upbringing by being a productive member of sociaty, that would be an uncle tom, and we dont want to be labled as that. so they carry rolls, wear grillz, get all decked out in ice, and pack heat. And then they want the simpy of the people cause life is hard and they were going to get robbed, but they dont get my simpy at all (credit Scott Steiner). You make millions of dollars and then you go to a club make a dumb mistake and throw it all away. I refuse to feel sorry for you.

I am not going to go down to your level and give you sympathy. Athletes like that are below hard working people like you and me. Not because they are black, or mexican, or white, but because they are stupid. They willinglly choose to live a life that is below me, and for that they deserve it.

 

[Azrael Cain]

This is an incredibly interesting thread, with incredibly interesting views and opinions. I'd like to tip the proverbial hat to all of you gents for your responses, and am now going to throw mine into the mix.

I have often conversed with my peers about the effect of Hip-Hop and its culture on the adolescence of today. It is an interesting effect, to say the least, and I am not the expert to explain why it is so attractive to people (black or white), but I think I have an idea (and it stems from my personal philosophy, as well as general observations and ideas).

People are generally driven by material things -- very few are motivated by something greater. Even going into college these days is a means to the end of a financially secure future, with majors in business and more business. I believe that this materialism stems from years and years of history, and that it is not limited to American culture. It is just very, very prominent in American culture. And perhaps it is because it is the embodiment of what America is historically [read: romantically] perceived as. Look back at our history (and I use the term loosely as I am not from here, but have spent enough time here to be considered American) and what is it based in?

Rebellion.

What is Hip-Hop about? Perhaps I am jumping the gun (excuse the pun) but is it not also about rebellion, to some degree? Perhaps even comparable to how Rock-n-roll is about rebellion, and Punk Rock, etc (I am sure you get the analogy). The thought is clear: independence is achieved through rebellion, and that very thought is ingrained everywhere in our culture. Culturally, and socially, we encourage rebellion and rebellious behavior. It's even "the norm" during the teenage years -- and if a peaceful relationship exists with a teen and his/her parents, something is wrong. Disjointed? You bet.

In any case, before I get completely off topic, along with a culture of rebellion, there is also a culture of celebrity and worship in terms of famous people and athletes. We reward physicality as a society and as a culture, and sports are the most physical thing imaginable -- football is brutal, basketball has also turned a bit violent, and the running joke goes "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out." People love violence, it appeals to the most basic desire of ours, the most primal and animalistic root of our being.

Partially, I believe that is why guns are so attractive. The issue, at its base and truth is multifaceted. It does boil down to reevaluating our culture and our values. Why would an athlete get into a club without being checked? Celebrity status for throwing or catching a ball or running really fast? Stop and reevaluate that.

Pointing the finger at Plax is extremely easy, and yes, he did a very, very stupid thing. But he is, as are the rest of us (forgive me, yes?), victims of the society and culture we've grown up in. For a man in the ghetto (whether Plax's background is indeed impoverished or not is irrelevant, really) or for a man in the suburbs, black or white, certain cultural rites of passage and symbols mark him as "a man," while others do not. A gun is manly -- ask anyone.

There is a greater dilemma here other than Hip-Hop Culture; the General Culture and Our Value System are the problems. But again, it is very multifaceted and I am trying to make it incredibly simple. This issue also touches on racism, both overt and covert, and the social implications of the history of slavery and its impact on the psyche and ideas of "white" and "black" Americans alike.