Big Men Need Managers

[IrishCanadian25]

I was inspired to create this thread from CJ the Pirate's "A Detailed Look at the WWE Roster" thread in the WWE section. In this thread, he discusses how The Big Show is better now because of the presence of Chris Jericho in an almost managerial role. Show can work the mic fine in and of himself, but he does seem to improve with a valid manager. Heyman, for example.

So it got me thinking - so Big Men in fact REQUIRE a manager to be successful or decent? Let's look at it historically.

Andre the Giant. He was a great face when he flew solo, but his biggest moment - Wrestlemania 3 - occured not ONLY because of his heel turn, but also because he was given Bobby Heenan to manager him.

King Kong Bundy. Another Heenan protege, later was with Ted DiBiase. His only relevance in wrestling occured when he had a manager.

Earthquake. Brought to prominance by manager Jimmy Hart.

Big Van Vader. Singularly talented, but his best years in the US saw Harley Race by his side.

The Undertaker. For more than a decade, Paul Bearer completed the set, and the two were always linked.

Kane. See - Undertaker.

Kamala. Harvey Wippleman brought him in to solve the problem of The Undertaker, AND Kim Chee was his "handler."

Giant Gonzalez. See - Kamala.

Umaga. Was only really relevant with Armando Estrada. Otherwise, a bust.

Yokozuna. Geez, he had Mr. Fuji AND Jim Cornette. And he's still among the all-time greats.

The Great Khali. Runjin, anybody?

Abyss. His only relevant run came with James Mitchell as his side.


So, this list is almost irrefutable! What big men have been successful without managers? And is it a requirement for success to have a manager if you're a certain size? Shit, even Hogan came in with Blassie originally, and later had Jimmy Hart and Eric Bichoff!

What are your thoughts on Big Men needed a manager?

 

[jmt225]

Bam Bam Bigelow - During his face run in the WWF in the late eighties, he had Oliver Humperdink by his side. Now, personally, I think this hurt Bam Bam because Humperdink not only sucked, but it made no sense for a personality like that to be with someone like Bam Bam Bigelow. Now, later on when Bam Bam returned to the WWF after a few years in Japan, he joined the Million Dollar Corporation, which of course was led by Ted DiBiase. During this time, Bam Bam actually headlined a Wrestlemania, so you can definitely make the case with him as well just because of this. But also, his best years, in my opinion, were in ECW when he was basically the 'Enforcer' of the Triple Threat. During this time, Shane Douglas was his mouthpiece. So, yeah... I think it's important to add Bam Bam Bigelow to your list.

However, two important big men not on your list, and nor should they be, are Kevin Nash and Sid. Neither never had a manager for long, and while Sid could have definitely used one, Nash was perfectly fine on his own. So, those are the only two Big Men I can really think of who were successful without a manager or valet for the majority of their careers.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

On JMT's points-

1. Bigelow also had Luna Vachon in his corner during a major run in the WWF - 1993 - when he reached the KOTR finals against Bret Hart. Luna was a major force for Bigelow in the early and mid-90's.

2. Diesel was sorta managed by the man who became Diamond Dallas Page in WCW. He then acted as a sort-of manager for Shawn Michaels in the WWF, but you're right, he didn't have a manager during his heyday in WWF. In WCW, however, he had Bischoff and Hogan.

3. Sid was managed by JJ Dillon and the Horsemen in NWA / WCW originally. In the WWF, he had Harvey Wippleman as his manager when he feuded with Hogan leading up to Wrestlemania 8. After that, during his second WWF run, he did not have a manager. But still - 2 of his three legit runs, he had a manager.

 

[Milkyway!]

Show can work the mic fine in and of himself, but he does seem to improve with a valid manager.

I disagree, Big Show can cut some fairly decent promos. His best work is when the WWE actually uses him correctly, they always seem to treat him like a jobber to the stars, or the most dominant force in the world. Its the way they use him, that is stupid.

Heyman, for example.

One of the Big Show's worst runs was with Heyman. It litterally nearly killed ECW. Once Lashley got in there, and finnally gave him a run for his money, nothing really came from it. Whatsoever.

So it got me thinking - so Big Men in fact REQUIRE a manager to be successful or decent? Let's look at it historically.

Require? No. Nice to have? I suppose.

Andre the Giant. He was a great face when he flew solo, but his biggest moment - Wrestlemania 3 - occured not ONLY because of his heel turn, but also because he was given Bobby Heenan to manager him.

Thats becasue Bobby Heenan could take anyone, and lift them up 15 times higher than what they actually are. Not so much needed, as Andre was still relevant, and a huge draw without Heenan, but with Heenan, he was better. Simply because it was Heenan.

King Kong Bundy. Another Heenan protege,

The Heenan effect works on all.

later was with Ted DiBiase.

I hardly remember anything Bundy did with Ted.

His only relevance in wrestling occured when he had a manager.

Thats because Bundy is the worst professional wrestler, I have ever seen. I've even seen A-Train.

Earthquake. Brought to prominance by manager Jimmy Hart.

Sigh...I don't know what he did either. But Jimmy Hart was just like Bobby Heenan. The guy was amazing, he could have made The Brian Kendrick get over.

Big Van Vader. Singularly talented, but his best years in the US saw Harley Race by his side.

He was pushed the hardest when he had Harley Race, and simply put it was Harley Race. A wrestling legend, it would be like Bret Hart coming out to manage The Hart Dynasty. Automatically relevant. But as you said, Vader hardly needed a manager to get over.

The Undertaker. For more than a decade, Paul Bearer completed the set, and the two were always linked.

Thats silly. Undertakers best years were during his biker days, and from 2002-present. The Undertaker with Pual Bearer was boring compared to The Undertaker alone, now. His prime wasn't with Paul, so no. He didn't need a manager to get over.

Kane. See - Undertaker.

Yeah, taking the mask off ruined Kane's career. Or he would be a relevant as his brother. The last 10 years he would have been without Paul bearer. Its hard to call, because of his uselessness since the mask was taken off, where he would be today. Though.

Kamala. Harvey Wippleman brought him in to solve the problem of The Undertaker, AND Kim Chee was his "handler."

Who?

Giant Gonzalez. See - Kamala.

Never did anything great.

Umaga. Was only really relevant with Armando Estrada. Otherwise, a bust.

He was out of action for damn near two years due to injurys. He might have been without Estrada for 6 months. The 6 months he was without him, he was just as over if not more so than with him.

Yokozuna. Geez, he had Mr. Fuji AND Jim Cornette. And he's still among the all-time greats.

True story.

The Great Khali. Runjin, anybody?

Uh, thats his brother, not his manager.

Abyss. His only relevant run came with James Mitchell as his side.

And his rivalry with Sting. His pairing with Matt Morgan was fairly decent as well. Otherwise yeah. Abyss needs someone to talk for him.

The point is, yeah, anyone can benift from a manager. Especially if its the right one. RVD had that whisle blowing guy. Tommy had his gal in ECW. So on and so forth. Its all a matter of circumstances, and if the wrestler is just not to great on the mic. The WWE has never really had a huge main eventor under 250 pounds, and thats considered a superheavyweight. John Cena certainly, doesn't need someone to work his mic. Thus I say your logic, is flawed.

 

[Big Sexy]

Having a manager for big men definitely helps. Especially the big men that are portrayed as monsters. It wouldn't make much sense for them to come out and cut some insightful promo and that's where the manager can help. The manager does all of the talking and it allows the big man to just stand back and look intimidating.

Most of the guys you listed were portrayed as monsters during the main parts of their careers.

Undertaker- When Taker first debuted he never talked so he obviously needed someone to talk for him. Paul Bearer did a great job of that. As the years went by Taker eventually became good at cutting a promo by himself so having Bearer with him was no longer a necessity.

Kane- Just like the Undertaker. He didn't talk at first so Paul Bearer was needed to introduce the character. Eventually Kane started talking and Bearer wasn't needed, but Kane has never been as successful.

Andre the Giant- He was obviously already well known, but putting him with Heenan instantly made him a heel. The angle leading up to the Wrestlemania 3 match between Hogan and Andre would not nearly have been as good without Heenan.

King King Bundy- With a manger Bundy main evented Wrestlemania 2 and was part of a high profiled match with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania 11. Without a manager Bundy would have done nothing.

Earthquake- Main eventing with Hogan when he had Jimmy Hart. Once Hart was gone so was Earthquakes career.

Vader- Harley Race did a great job talking Vader up and all Vader had to do was be dominant in the ring. Without Race as his mouthpiece there is no way Vader would have become as successful as he did.

Yokozuna- He had an amazing two year run with Mr. Fuji and Jim Cornette. Then they had him speak English and it was all down hill from there. I prefer my Yokozuna to be screaming Bunzai, not trying to cut a promo.

Umaga- He had a great run with Estrada. Wins over Triple H and HBK, a big Wrestlemania match against Lashley, and a WWE title feud with Cena. Once Estrada left Umaga just looked out of place.

Khali- First Davari was his manager and that's when Khali was most dominant. Now he is a face and he has his "interpreter" Ranjin Singh but either way Khali would not be nearly as good without someone with him because know one would know what he is saying.

So overall managers help big men. Especially the ones that are portrayed as "monsters". Everyone on that list would not have had as successful of a career if it wasn't for their managers.