Best "Wrestling Wrestler" of All-Time

[IrishCanadian25]

Alternate Title - The Anti-Sly Thread

There are a few different types of fans out there, but the two that seem to go to war the most often are the John Cena and/or Hulk Hogan fans who state that the wrestling business has survived on the back of these two men, versus those fans who claim "Hogan and Czena sux, they only do 5 moves" and point to the credibility of Bret Hart, Dean Malenko, and Bryan Danielson.

So, let's take Cena, Hogan, Warrior, Batista, etc. OUT of the equation, and ask the question - who was the greatest "wrestling" wrestler of all time? Who is the champion of the anti-Cena, anti-Hogan movement? Who is the lord of all suplexes and counter attacks?

Bret Hart. There's a reason he's called "The Excellence of Execution." And his use of technical maneuvers, submissions, small packages, and other "wrestling" moves made this Canadian legend a technical mainstay.

Chris Benoit. Never a winner on the microphone, what Benoit lacked in charisma he made up for in technical prowess, popularizing the multiple consecutive suplex technique, and wrestling Booker T in two separate Best of 7 matches.

Eddie Guerrero. Benoit's good friend and technical bretheren, "Latino Heat" had most of Benoit's skill and ALL of the mic skills the Crippler didn't have. He also used the multi-suplex technique in a move called 'The Three Amigos.'

Ric Flair. The Nature Boy brought the Figure-4 leglock to the forefront, and since he was neither strong enough to match power with many people, nor agile enough to use the top rope, he had to depend on pure technical prowess to get him by - to 16 World Championships.

Kurt Angle. Olympic Wrestling Medalist and total psycho, Kurt once saved Noah from the floods by reversing God's downpour into the Ankle Lock. Also a suplex machine and an absolute beast.

Bryan Danielson. ROH's indy star, those fans who watch ROH revere this man with a strong passion for his technical ability.

Curt Henning. Mr Perfect was well known for his in-ring ability, and being able to take advantage of in-ring opportunity, and for turning a simple fishermans suplex into The Perfect Plex. One of the most well-regarded technicians in wrestling history.

Lou Thesz. Possibly the first truly great champion, he often dealt with opponents who would "go into business for themselves" midway through a match to try to win the title, forcing Thesz to defeat them legit with various fluid wrestling maneuvers.

Other. Take your pick! Dynamite Kid, Dean Malenko, Larry Zybysko, Steven Regal, Owen Hart, Perry Saturn, AJ Styles, etc. If your pick isn't listed, vote "Other" and let us know WHY you think your vote should be considered!

 

[klunderbunker]

I'll take Angle over Hart by just a hair. Hart was a great tactician in the ring and the epitome of a ring general, but he had one major flaw to me, and that was he had basically one way to end a match. Sharpshooter, and on rare occasions, a second rope elbow drop. This is where Angle takes it for me. He had the best of both worlds with the Angle Slam and the ankle lock. Also, his facials in the ring are great. He seems like he is desperate to win every match he is ever in. When he hits two or three slams on someone and they still kick out, and then he locks onto the ankle and cranks on it for all he's worth, there aren't many more convincing guys.

Edit-sorry for the double post. Can I get this one deleted please?

 

[FromTheSouth]

I voted Kurt. One, if we're asking who the best wrestler is, then I'm going with the guy who won the Olympics. Two, he's as big, and possibly bigger, in Japan, where technical wrestling is king. Three, he looks completely believable with every move he performs. Every movement is crisp, and nothing is wasted.

He edged out Bret Hart in my opinion. Bret was as clean and crisp in the ring as Kurt, however, he just lacked the ferocity in his suplexes. When Kurt is throwing a man, you can see his hips explode through the move. I imagine it would be shitty to be in the ring with Kurt, as everything is so quick, you are bound to bang your head on several landings, however, the fact that all his opponents look good makes the bruises worth it.

 

[a0161613]

Bret was my vote but KB's post makes me think twice. The point about the Angle Slam and the Ankle Lock put it over the top. That was a good post because Angle became a real beast once he added the submission so effectively to his moveset.

The reason I voted was I loved how a lot of what he did offensively in his singles run was generally directed at weakening the opponent effectively enough to the Sharpshooter to be locked in and often finish the match at the first opportunity.

Glad that Eddie made it onto the list. He was so smooth in the ring. Everyone he got in the ring with rated him so highly. It must have been so easy to get in and work with him.

I don't believe the point about everything being so quick with Angle is too relevant. I think technical stars like these make everything so easy because a lot of these in their prime are known as being great carriers.

(I was pleasantly surprised to see Danielson on the list. I think in the right company Danielson could have the same impact as Angle, Eddie or Bret.)

 

[Gelgarin]

Anyone want to offer odds on who I'll be voting for?

Anyway, I've always been of the opinion that the reason for the popularity of the "Technical" style is the fact that it looks somewhat more legitimate in comparison to brawler or lucha styles. That being said, I'm giving points to Lou Thesz right off the bat as the only man on the list to actually uphold kayfabe with his in ring work. That's less an argument for Thesz than it is an argument for most of the guys from that generation.

Another argument that I feel the need to bring up is that none of the other guys on the list could survive doing what Thesz did. Bret Heart is always remembered for doing a 60 minute iron man match, which in today’s climate is seen as a colossal feat of endurance. In Thesz's day, 60 minute draws happened on a regular basis, and nobody had invented the term rest hold yet.

If you'll permit me to enter story telling mode for a few minutes, I recall an anecdote of a match between Lou Thesz and Buddy Rogers. Rogers was quite a big deal at the time; not on Thesz's level, but good enough to be being booked in a 60 minute draw against the man. Anyway, this match was being hyped to the roof, and the territory running it had even got Ed Lewis in the officiate the match. Now Lewis is not well known in this bored, so to give a quick history, he's a legend of wrestling from back in the carnival days, and during Thesz's time Lewis was "The Guy without whom you wouldn't be here today". The Harley Race of today’s product.

Anyhow, during the drive to the arena Rogers made some choice remarks about Ed Lewis's involvement in the match, making comments pertaining to "That fat ass taking money out of our pockets" which Thesz took exception to. Anyway, by way of payback, Thesz wrestled 60 minutes at such a blistering pace that Rogers simply couldn't keep up. Thesz moving the match, move for move, hold for hold, for the entire hour without stopping for breath, constantly accelerating until, after the 60 minutes had finished, Rogers had to by physically carried from the ring.

Unprofessional in todays light of course, but the business was a very different place those days. The point I am trying to make is that Thesz had endurance and stamina that would blow every other name on the list away. On average most guys on the list wrestled seriously for a decade, and kept a schedule that most would consider bruital. Thesz wrestled a schedule that would make the most prolific contemporary professional wrestler break down a cry, and did so for well over thirty years. Lou Thesz was still going aged 74 (putting over a green Masahiro Chono and creating one of the all-time great Japanese heels) something that I'm quite confidend none of the guys on the list will be doing.

Another reason to vote Thesz of course is the fact that he could snap your arm in an instant, and you don't fuck with a guy who can do that.

Lastly, and most subjectively, I honestly think Thesz was a better technical wrestler than any other name on the list. I really feel that the technical style had become a lost art, with submissions such as headlocks or hammerlocks no longer being sold. Watch a video of Thesz putting somebody in a hammerlock and notice how the crowd responds. Whenever Thesz (or any other technical greats from that period) slapped on a submission hold of executed a brutal suplex, people in the audience legitimately believed that it might end in a fall. In today’s style where, short of a screwjob or a roll up, you can basically just watch for a finishing move to get executed, the technical style looks outdated and out of place. This is less the fault of the guys than it is of the changing nature of the show, but with everything else I think it's just another reason why Lou Thesz wins this thing.

 

[MaskedKane]

I would pick Bret Hart over Kurt angle in ever category - except best wrestling wrestler. Kurt Angle is agile, he is extremely athletic, he doesnt give a crap about his injuries and learns to suck it up and wrestle, and i love it.

 

[klunderbunker]

HBK isn't on the list simply because he's not good enough to be on it. Don't get me wrong he's great, but there are people that are flat out better than he is and they're on this list. Shawn had a lot more of the showman style to his matches as opposed to the real technical skill, which he had a lot of also. He can wrestle very well, but not at the level of a Bret or an Angle or a Benoit. Those men are simply artists out there working almost a masterpiece every time they go out there. Shawn is probably the next one down on the list after them, but he's simply not that high up. Very close though.

 

[jmt225]

Chose "Other".

Bruno Sammartino is, without a doubt in my mind, the best "Wrestling Wrestler" of all time. Here's some cool facts as to why I feel this way:

His two WWE (back then WWWF, obviously) title reigns lasted over a decade (to this day he is the company's longest reigning champion ever).

He sold out Madison Square Garden more times then ANYONE.

He filled out houses everywhere he wrestled during his era.

And, unlike most top draws ever in this business, Bruno got where he got with hard work and honesty, and as far as I can tell, he never had to screw anyone over to remain on top.


So, there you go. Sure, today, his matches and shit now might seem "boring", but back then they were truly the best on the card every night. He told believable stories every night, and people on the East Coast were honored to have him represent their territory as champion. Ticket sales and his legacy in the business easily proves that.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's all fine and good, but isn't this supposed to be about the best technical wrestler? Bruno was good in the ring, but at the end of the day he was a power guy. That's all fine and good, but his technical game wasn't all that strong. he could wrestle a guy fairly well, but he was based probably 90% on power. Bruno could draw with the best of them and probably still holds a ton of records. He is one of the biggest draws of all tiem, but he wasn't a technical guy, and there's not a thing wrong with that kind of a style, but he's simply not a great wrestler's wrestler.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

I voted for Bret. The thing that seperated him from the other guys in my eyes was his selling ability and overall ring psychology particularly limb psychology. You didnt see him spend 10 minutes working on a guys shoulder only to put him in the sharpshooter. His whole goal throughout the match was to set up for that move so obviously he spent most of the match working on the leg or lower back. Also I dont think Ive ever seen anybody execute moves so crisply, there maybe only a handful of times I can think of throughout his career where a move he did looked sloppy and he spent a good portion of his career wrestling big guys too which made it tougher. His punches and kicks were some of the most legit looking ones Ive ever seen also. As far as his selling that was just top notch, he knew exactly how to sell a move. He didnt over sell to the point it looked ridiculous he sold just like how I would expect somebody to react if the move was really applied. Im sure there maybe guys in Japan or pre-modern era wrestlers that maybe better but I never watched any of those guys so I can only comment on the ones Ive seen and Bret is the best overall in-ring wrestler Ive ever seen.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Well, as I've grown up around the time Bret Hart was the "main man" and he also always was one of my favorites, I can but grudgingly give the nod to Kurt Angle. Now Bret Hart comes in as a very close second; he was the one guy that made wrestling look real, and his skills at that are almost unparalleled. Almost. If not for the man who is a legit Olympic Gold Medalist and thus knows how to REALLY pull off wrestling moves, Bret would take this one. Plus, and excuse me if I repeat myself, to this day he still remains the single person I have ever seen to execute the Sharpshooter the way it's meant to be. There will probably be many wrestlers in Japan etc... who can pull it off equally good or better, but in American wrestling, Hart is exceptional in that respect.

However, Angle just delivers more of a total package - he can execute "regular" wrestling moves just as well as Bret Hart, but he additionally brings an intensity to his matches that Bret Hart, with his entire gimmick and persona, always lacked. Hart seemed focused to wrestle; Angle seems focused to win. Add to that the fact that he is a much bigger "powerhouse" than Hart, even if they are of familiar stature, and thus can deliver absolutely HUGE suplexes to almost anyone, and also has some high flying moves in his repertoire that Hart never had, he takes it hands down. Angle can do anything, he can sell anything, he brings intensity, he has a legit background, he is now the one that can make wrestling look real, if none other can. And due to his abilities, he is slightly better at it than Bret Hart, even if Hart comes in at a very close second to me.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Bret and Kurt are extremely close in technical ability, but I would choose Bret Hart as the best overall wrestler ever because of his ability to sell his opponent's moves. It wasn't entirely about winning or losing; I always felt that while Kurt was in a wrestling match.......Bret was in a war.

The night he fought The British Bulldog in England was one of the best matches I've ever seen and I felt that, even in losing, Bret proved he was the best wrestler on the planet. He made himself look great.....and carried Davey Boy along with him.

 

[BooCocky]

I've narrowed it down to three wrestlers, Bret Hart, Hennig, and Lou Thesz. I love Curt Hennig, but Bret Hart was simply better at everything. So, It's down to two, Lou Thesz and Bret Hart, Bret Hart simply was the best there is, was and ever will be. He was a great seller, his pyschology was top notch. Hart could wrestle anyone and make them look legit.

How Kurt Angle is winning this thing I'll never know, people must hate Bret, or must've never seen him wrestle. Angle was spotty at times, his moves never flowed together, and his heel and face pyschology was pretty bad. At times he'd be a heel getting face pops, something Bret would never get. When you're a heel you should eliminate the high impact moves, that is something Angle never did.

I am not a fan of TNA but AJ Styles is a great wrester. He is a wrestler that can do spots, his moves seem to flow, and his heel and face pyschology is great. When he was a heel he eliminated his high impact moves so he wouldn't receive face pops.

So shit, I'd put AJ above Angle but below Hart, Lou Thesz, and Hennig.

 

[RVDgurl]

If asked this question a year ago, I would have said Chris Benoit. But that was before I discovered Bryan Danielson. The choices on this list are fantastic as all the guys are worthy of being there. But Danielson just has that certain something that makes me love to watch him. He is definately built from the Lou Thesz old school mold, yet he brings something new and fresh to the table.
He incorporates so many interesting versions of the simpliest hold, such as an armbar. There are very few guys that can take a headlock or a wristlock and make it something interesting to watch. That's the kind of thing that makes Danielson so good. He executes his moves flawlessly. You will very rarely find a botched move in a Danielson match. He's extremely flexible, which allows him to move in ways alot of guys can't, he's strong, athletic and builds his matches in a way that makes sense.

 

[OIL]

Kurt Angle will get most of the votes, and rightly so, he is world class in the ring. But for me, Chris Benoit is the best "wrestling wrestler". In the ring, technically he was second to none. If you watch his matches against Angle you would see, he was phenomenal. Angle vs Benoit at WrestleMania 17 I believe. It was a fantastic match which really proved Benoit, technically as one of the best wrestlers in the world. Fast forward a few years and he got even better, and while there aren't any standout matches that I can think of off the top of my head, you can seea trend in all of his matches that his experience showed in the ring with his technical ability, and his ability to carry a match.

 

[Shocky]

It's a three horse race in my opinion, but in the end the Olympic Hero is probably the best technical wrestler of all time.

Bret Hart was great and proficient, but he was also very predictable and you knew watching a Bret Hart match more then likely what was coming next in the line. Nothing wrong with that, but it got to be very dull, no matter how good and well oiled he was.

Chris Benoit had everything that Bret Hart did, but that intensity was more then enough to null any mic or charisma difficulties the masses seem to have against him. People seem to think that he had no gimmick or was dull, but his intensity was his gimmick, and he was damn fine in the ring to boot. When I think of my favorite matches of all time, probably more then half of them will have the name Chris Benoit on one side of them.

My choice is Kurt Angle though. How can a technical wrestling category not go to a guy that accomplished more as an amateur then anyone in the history of the business. Kurt Angle not only had the intensity of a Chris Benoit,b ut he had charisma, mic skills, and just an intangable that gets him over with the crowd every where he goes. The man is a true monster in the ring, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised to watch the man die in the ring before he retires. Kurt Angle is taht damn good.

Honorable mention by the way should go to Brock Lesnar. In my opinion, the man was fucking awesome, but often gets over looked for his technical ability because of the sheer awesomeness of his power and strength. Brock could very well beat anyone on the mat with ability, and power. The man is amazing.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

I am EXTREMELY offended by the lack of Dean Malenko in this poll. Dude is the smoothest cat in the history of the business in the ring. Whenever he's on WWE 24/7, it's like I'm watching human silk fluttering through the air. It's all so fluid...very similar to when Neo realizes that he's "The One" in The Matrix. It's like he doesn't have to even try. On top of that, you have the Texas Cloverleaf, which is the most beautiful submission hold in the history of the business because it's all done with the hands. There's something very existential about that move that makes me just think...Dean Malenko is THE MAN.

Now, that may be the markiest post I've ever written, but I 100% back every bit of it.