Been Pondering?

[truk24]

Not going to get to deep here. Just wanted to say that for years now and practically all my life I have come firmly to believe that knowledge is given, or even passed down not inherited through genetics. Hopefully many of us can agree on this. I don't however feel that there is "A" "God". Nor do think there are many "Gods". I do feel that there are higher intelligent lifeforms that have given us knowledge that has greatly rewarded man's existence on this planet.

One doesn't have to look on line to understand this. Go to your local library, and read books based on ancient civilizations like the Aztecs, or Mayans. They have described many things which come from the sky. Today we even see things that are in the sky, and we call them UFO's. No, not every UFO is something alien in terms of lifeform, but how many are? That we can not prove one way or the other. If it weren't true that something actually exists would we even be having this common question.

It is funny how society will except that there is this higher "being", but on the otherhand doesn't want to except that this higher "being" may have created many more civilizations that we could never imagine. Don't you think it is silly to think that this great power would only create just us on Earth?

In my life I have seen two real UFO's that I know for sure were not from this planet. The first time I was 8 at a friends house. It was summer, and we had the windows open happy to be awake all late. Then, we both noticed a red dot in the sky over the horizon. It went across the sky like nothing else I had ever seen before. then in an instant it disappeared.

The second time was 8 years later, with another childhood friend. We were walking across the tracks behind the shopping center. this encounter was much closer. The red dot was about the size of a Venus when it is noticeable. Very large dot, and it was only 8 pm so I'm sure others happened to see it as well.

There are 3 days I will never forget my whole life. The day my father died, and the two different times I witnessed these two red dots in the sky. When you see something that you know isn't from this planet it humbles you beyond anything you can imagine. I have been all over the world, and have seen things that the average man hasn't, and it just seems a bit odd to this day describing those events.

Now it leads me to this. I have been wondering if civilization is on the brinks of a "change". Is it possible that we may be visited for a long period of time from higher life forms? So many stories in all religious texts point to a return of some sort of greater being whetether it be good or evil. Collectively can we say that something is returning to the Earth?

Presidents including the last Bush Jr have gone on the record in saying things in reference to protecting ourselves from Alien attacks, and no not illegals from Mexico. Google it yourself. Nasa just released in the news the other day that our universe is on the verge of crossing paths with another universe. Another shocker was about 4 months ago many news stories broke about all the underground facilities that hold important labs, scientists, and seeds in case of doomsday. They even called them "Doomsday" vaults.

What would be the point, and what Doomsday? Is there a Nuclear war that is about to happen that I don't know about? Have geologists found a crack in the earth that could cause a massive eathquake, and start mile high sunamis? Has there been some accident with some kind of virus that kills millions over a period of 30 years, and we don't know?

My only other explanation would be that there is some sort of real concern with outer life forms coming to this planet whether it be in good or evil. We are constantly sending out signals to parts of the universe that we know nothing of. Something almost like identity theft, but from a vast distance. Infact, they may not want out identities, but out earth. Our signals allowing them to come closer, and closer towards domination or peace.

We all go to work everyday just like Nasa scientists, and members of out government. Except their work is a little bit different from what your or I do. They're working with the most elite equipment of the 21st century. Possibly unaware of how much contact they have made. To suggest that we are the only ones here is obsurd, and child like.

I truly feel that we will be visited, and that many will be judged in some way or another. Hundreds of millions will die threw suicides, war, murders, rape, and disease. Hospitals will fall apart. I dont however think that we will have an issue with the higher beings, as I think if they are so evolved then naturally they won't have any need to be violent or aggressive. Which means man will have judged himself in the presence of a higher being.

No aliens with big eyes greeting us. Only forms of communication would be encripted that only a few hackers in the world could solve. Just very large space ships hovering above our skies, and then one day just gone. Meaning that all of the horror would have came from our fears. Thus, our judgement is our great change as a society on this planet.

People will forever be the great destroyer. We will destroy ourselves in an effort to fend our fears of other lifeforms visiting this earth. Then we get to see at how we panick when we don't know what is going on. Maybe the UFO's will knock out all forms of communication while harboring on this planet. Causing a world wide panic without communications. People would truly shit themselves when they can't txt, call, email.

I've always felt that knowledge is not only learned, but passed down. One just doesn't discover something out of nothing. Our existence is vital to the existence of everything else that "is". At some point I would think it is plausible to suggest that maybe we are in a period of knowledge, and that this may include knowledge passed down from the the "heavens". In this effort many will die from their own misjudgement, and thus mauny of us will live on knowing that the time is to move into the age of enlightenment.

Hopefully you enjoyed. didn't mean to get so Sci-Fi'ish.

 

[FromTheSouth]

This is set up as an argument that I can't prove wrong. It's not that I'm saying it's right, but I can't drive to the nearest star and see if it's actually a higher being bluetoothing knowledge to babies.

I have heard theories that claim that the pyramids were landing pads for alien spacecraft. I have heard all that Scientology claims. I am convinced that God exists in a benevolent father existence. I think that he gave us the Earth and everything we need to succeed and then moved on to watch his creation succeed and fail, all the time providing comfort and support to all who seek it.

This is, of course, one view of God. There is the theory that God controls everything. There is the theory that God gives us choice and then decides our consequences. There is even the Machiavellian theory that God is dead.

Nothing separates your theory from any of these. No one can prove any of these theories right or wrong. By the time you gather any evidence, it's too late to tell anyone. All that is left is faith. If you have faith that higher beings visit us, then who are we to tell you are wrong. You could even be this being yourself, presenting us your story and then leaving us to be faithful to your message or not.

I think that all religions boil down to the same ideals. Love thy neighbor, honor your parents, praise God. All these messages and anecdotes lead to one central idea, that if we live how we think God intended, we will create heaven on Earth, and out streets will be littered in gold.

 

[Azrael Cain]

Isn't the theory "God is Dead" Nietzsche's, not Machiavelli's?

Either way, I have always thought that if "we're it," then it is a really, really good joke.

And yet, could you imagine what finding out that we are not alone would do to the human mind? We wouldn't be able to handle it. We can barely handle one another and our "differences." And if these intelligent creatures from wherever truly did visit us, and gave us knowledge, then somewhere along the line they fucked up for putting their faith in us. And if they have been observing us, then they know just how much hatred and bigotry is down here, and they would never come to visit. Even if they could over-power us and enslave us or whatever -- we're an obnoxious, arrogant, egocentric lot, humans. I don't care how super intelligent you are, interacting with a human being would drive you insane!

That argument aside, I do not believe in UFOs. I do not believe in a religiously defined God, either. I do not believe in nothing because my experiences dictate that Something, beyond my comprehension, is "out there." That would make me a spiritual person, I suppose.

I believe that ultimately, the world is an illusion pathetically interpreted by our five senses. We only get a very, very tiny sense of what is occurring around us. Our bodies are nothing more than vessels that our Soul inhabits, and we are all small parts of what was once a unified whole. But if we learn to 'feel' with our soul, if we learn to 'tune' our "Sixth Sense" correctly, we can discover and attain the "Worlds Beyond." To me, there isn't a "God," but there is a "Creator," and "he" is in everything that surrounds us. "He" is "Nature." (It was because of Nature that we evolved -- we stood up, we developed our brains, etc. If Nature hadn't forces our ancestors to migrate, we wouldn't be here. Thus, we were "Created" by Nature through the "freak accident" of evolution/mutation and adaptation)

I could be wrong. Believing this helps me sleep at night, it helps me make sense of the world, it helps me to explain just about everything... it makes sense to me, like UFOs make sense to you. There's no "right" or "wrong" religion or way of thinking as long as we treat one another like human being, like people. Granted, that hasn't been happening for quite some time, but I think we're starting to realize that we need one another again, that we need to come together or we'll perish.

I don't care where that feeling is coming from, the only thing that matters is that it is coming.

 

[Tastycles]

Not going to get to deep here. Just wanted to say that for years now and practically all my life I have come firmly to believe that knowledge is given, or even passed down not inherited through genetics. Hopefully many of us can agree on this. I don't however feel that there is "A" "God". Nor do think there are many "Gods". I do feel that there are higher intelligent lifeforms that have given us knowledge that has greatly rewarded man's existence on this planet.

I disagree with you, for reasons that I am about to explain. There is of course a perpetual cycle in your belief: if aliens gave us our intelligence, where did they get it from? If you beieve this kind of intelligence passed down model, it's hard to do so without some sort of deity on top. If you don't, your essentially left with the same evolution of human psyche that I believe in, only you have carried it around elsewhere. I'd also like to point out that I am some exams away from being qualified enough to have a degree in astrophysics, so I do know what I'm talking about.

One doesn't have to look on line to understand this. Go to your local library, and read books based on ancient civilizations like the Aztecs, or Mayans. They have described many things which come from the sky. Today we even see things that are in the sky, and we call them UFO's. No, not every UFO is something alien in terms of lifeform, but how many are? That we can not prove one way or the other. If it weren't true that something actually exists would we even be having this common question.

There are two interesting points here. Firstly, you cannot cite Aztecs and Egypians saying things came out of the sky and adapt that to UFOs. It is too revisionist. Even if what they said could be construed directly as being about UFOs, then you have to remember that they also talked of people with the heads of birds and wolves, and nobody would believe that these exist.

There are countless things that many people believe in that don't necessarily exist. Take your own example of God - how can you not believe in Jehovah, if so many people say they have spoken to him?

It is funny how society will except that there is this higher "being", but on the otherhand doesn't want to except that this higher "being" may have created many more civilizations that we could never imagine. Don't you think it is silly to think that this great power would only create just us on Earth?

I don't believe in God creating the earth. Civilisation is born out of humanity's progression through evolution. As far as I'm concerned, the big bang created the universe. Is it possibe that life has sprouted elsewhere in the Uiverse? Yes, even probable. But in order for it to have evolved to a level far more advanced than humanity is unlikely. Here's why: evolution is brought about by the adaption of people to their environments. Once you get to the intelligence level of people, we adapt our environments to suit us. Hence, you cannot really evolve beyond this point.

In my life I have seen two real UFO's that I know for sure were not from this planet. The first time I was 8 at a friends house. It was summer, and we had the windows open happy to be awake all late. Then, we both noticed a red dot in the sky over the horizon. It went across the sky like nothing else I had ever seen before. then in an instant it disappeared.

There are a million things that this could be. Sounds to me like a satellite, as people often don't realise you can see them in the evening, and they are incredibly fast.

The second time was 8 years later, with another childhood friend. We were walking across the tracks behind the shopping center. this encounter was much closer. The red dot was about the size of a Venus when it is noticeable. Very large dot, and it was only 8 pm so I'm sure others happened to see it as well.

Red dot the size of Venus is almost certainly Mars.

There are 3 days I will never forget my whole life. The day my father died, and the two different times I witnessed these two red dots in the sky. When you see something that you know isn't from this planet it humbles you beyond anything you can imagine. I have been all over the world, and have seen things that the average man hasn't, and it just seems a bit odd to this day describing those events.

Even if it was supernatural, how can you know it was extra-terrestrial?

Now it leads me to this. I have been wondering if civilization is on the brinks of a "change". Is it possible that we may be visited for a long period of time from higher life forms? So many stories in all religious texts point to a return of some sort of greater being whetether it be good or evil. Collectively can we say that something is returning to the Earth?

The reason that religions all have second comings is simple. Nobod would give a fuck about religion if it all happened in the past. If you believe a second coming is going to happen, then you feel part of the religion, because you are living in a well defined region "between comings" as it were.

Presidents including the last Bush Jr have gone on the record in saying things in reference to protecting ourselves from Alien attacks, and no not illegals from Mexico. Google it yourself.

He is talking about terrorism and illegal immigrants. If he said "Islamic extremists" and "hispanic illegal immigrants" people would call him a racist. They are nothing but political euphimisms.

Nasa just released in the news the other day that our universe is on the verge of crossing paths with another universe.

I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong this is. There is one Universe. If there was another one, it wouldn't be the Universe. Our Galaxy will cross paths with Andromeda. You might mean that, but if you do, don't fret, this will happen in about 5 billion years.

Another shocker was about 4 months ago many news stories broke about all the underground facilities that hold important labs, scientists, and seeds in case of doomsday. They even called them "Doomsday" vaults.

What would be the point, and what Doomsday? Is there a Nuclear war that is about to happen that I don't know about? Have geologists found a crack in the earth that could cause a massive eathquake, and start mile high sunamis? Has there been some accident with some kind of virus that kills millions over a period of 30 years, and we don't know?

I'd love to know where your getting your news from. Anyway, given that just about every major government is braced for a nuclear war permanently, it would be for that.

My only other explanation would be that there is some sort of real concern with outer life forms coming to this planet whether it be in good or evil.

That's the only other possibility as I see it. Not biological warfare. Not terrorists being unable to bomb or fly planes or drive cars into something underground. Nope, has to be alien attacks.

We are constantly sending out signals to parts of the universe that we know nothing of. Something almost like identity theft, but from a vast distance. Infact, they may not want out identities, but out earth. Our signals allowing them to come closer, and closer towards domination or peace.

The radio was invnted in 1896. This means that we have been sending signals out for 112 years. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light, so even if we assume that they could travel at the speed of light, they'd have to be 56 light years away to be able to get here. Given that there is about ten stars within that distance that even have planets, let alone earth-like ones, we should be ok. Also, this is a gross underestimate. Radio signals from 100 years ago aren't powerful enough to go that far, and the chances that any lifeformeven gotto 10% of the speed of light is unlikely.

We all go to work everyday just like Nasa scientists, and members of out government. Except their work is a little bit different from what your or I do. They're working with the most elite equipment of the 21st century. Possibly unaware of how much contact they have made. To suggest that we are the only ones here is obsurd, and child like.

I wouldn't say it was absurd to have faith in the Bible, and certainly not child like. We are probably not the only intelligent life in the Universe. However, the distances involved mean we will probably never find anyone out there.

I truly feel that we will be visited, and that many will be judged in some way or another. Hundreds of millions will die threw suicides, war, murders, rape, and disease. Hospitals will fall apart. I dont however think that we will have an issue with the higher beings, as I think if they are so evolved then naturally they won't have any need to be violent or aggressive. Which means man will have judged himself in the presence of a higher being.

This would not be the human reaction. The human reaction would be to defend the species, we'd probably shoot down any UFOs before they got here.

No aliens with big eyes greeting us. Only forms of communication would be encripted that only a few hackers in the world could solve. Just very large space ships hovering above our skies, and then one day just gone. Meaning that all of the horror would have came from our fears. Thus, our judgement is our great change as a society on this planet.

What is your basis for any of this?

People will forever be the great destroyer. We will destroy ourselves in an effort to fend our fears of other lifeforms visiting this earth. Then we get to see at how we panick when we don't know what is going on. Maybe the UFO's will knock out all forms of communication while harboring on this planet. Causing a world wide panic without communications. People would truly shit themselves when they can't txt, call, email.

People would shit themselves, true. You are greatly misguided if you think that it would cause everyone to turn on each other. People in danger don't do that, they club together. Do you think people in Hiroshima were killing each other? No, they were trying to help each other get out. Look at every natural disaster, and you see compassion not fighting.

I've always felt that knowledge is not only learned, but passed down. One just doesn't discover something out of nothing. Our existence is vital to the existence of everything else that "is". At some point I would think it is plausible to suggest that maybe we are in a period of knowledge, and that this may include knowledge passed down from the the "heavens". In this effort many will die from their own misjudgement, and thus mauny of us will live on knowing that the time is to move into the age of enlightenment.

Hopefully you enjoyed. didn't mean to get so Sci-Fi'ish.

I'll grant you that it has been an interesting read, but I think it is almost entirely from your own conjecture. Which is fine, ther's nothing wrong with having your own belief, and if you're right then let me be judged by that, but I really can't see it to be honest. I'm more inclined to religion than I am to this, and that is really saying something.

 

[Leeds Guy]

People will forever be the great destroyer. We will destroy ourselves in an effort to fend our fears of other lifeforms visiting this earth. Then we get to see at how we panick when we don't know what is going on. Maybe the UFO's will knock out all forms of communication while harboring on this planet. Causing a world wide panic without communications. People would truly shit themselves when they can't txt, call, email.

That comment is insane man, did people start fighting each other when 9/11 happened? i dont think so i think your country banded together to fight an enemy, which is what people would do if ''extra terrestials'' attacked. People look after there own when faced with Danger, and this is no exepction. Everybody would unite to down these ET's. Do you really think we would have issues with other people when our humanity is being threatened?

i enjoyed reading your post man and i enjoyed tastycles reply, i am in no way having a go at your beliefs but i just wanted to reply to that comment.

 

[truk24]

I obviously left out a huge piece of evidence in the "red dot" experience. I can understand why you would say it was probably mars, but it was moving around extremely fast, and no satellites don't move this fast. You weren't there, and I understand it is hard to swallow, but it happened. It wasn't a satellite, and it wasn't a planet. How funny of you to even think that I don't know the difference between a planet, and a moving object. Again that was my fault for not including the fact that the "red dot" was moving in directions that no man made craft can do.

You say that I can not site examples of ancient civilizations experiences to all of this. Seriously? The peoples they described as having bird's heads were gods that they admired, and merely poetic. The other peoples were other tribes that they encountered in wars. Those tribes wore animal costumes to hide themselves, or as intimidation. Have you ever seen some of the artwork. No, I don't feel that we as a society should go by what they have seen, but being someone who has seen a UFO I can relate. Anyone can say something came from the heavens, and I realize this. They needed storytelling just as much as the Europeans.

"I don't believe in God creating the earth. Civilisation is born out of humanity's progression through evolution. As far as I'm concerned, the big bang created the universe. Is it possibe that life has sprouted elsewhere in the Uiverse? Yes, even probable. But in order for it to have evolved to a level far more advanced than humanity is unlikely. Here's why: evolution is brought about by the adaption of people to their environments. Once you get to the intelligence level of people, we adapt our environments to suit us. Hence, you cannot really evolve beyond this point." - Tastycles

With your level of intelligence, and field of study this is such a strong contradiction. You of all people should know how vast the universe is. To actually think that the intelligence level of people is it, makes no sense at all. Here's why: There are parts of the universe we have never seen, nor understand. Thus, to suggest that there insn't anything above what we have here is nonsense. Yes, we do adapt to our enviornments to suit us, but what does that have to do with their being higher forms of life than us? That statement proves nothing. You say that we can not really evolve beyond this point?

Once again a huge contradiction to your field of study. What we view as the evolution or adaptation of ourselves is completely irrelevant from everyother lifeform not of this planet. Life adapts to where it may exists, and what you have described is practically anti-progressive which again is a huge contradiction. Science is progression, and part of our existence is based on progression. Take humans 400 years ago to modern day. That is a huge gap in our evolution. We are getting bigger, stronger, smarter, faster, and more efficient. We went from oil lamps to wireless computers. Hell, 250 years ago no one thought we could ever reach the moon. Then we did. We didn't have the science back then, that we did now.

You say it is hard to understand my claim on knowledge being passed down without a deity on top. How? It is irrational to think that some thing just has all knowledge. Knowledge, or truth isn't just one thing. Various peoples have given tremendous amounts of knowledge to the world. There is no one "deity" at the top because knowledge is everywhere, and has no "one source". To suggest otherwise is truly insane, and not scientific in the least bit. With constant life, and things in motion on the outside of this world things are constantly happening in far away out of our sight.

Is there one Professor that teaches all professors? Why would this be any different? No, I have no proof that other life forms came here and gave us knowledge, but I do have an experience that I know happened, and it was a UFO not of Earth. If it is from Earth than your comment of us not being able to go any further than where we are at is simply dead. Either it was a part of some government experiment, or it was another intelligent life visiting this planet. There has been more physical evidence to suggest that there are UFO's than any other common religious belief. Again you weren't there, and I know what I saw, and it was real. Are you going to say millions of other people are wrong as well?

You asked where I got my news from, and I will tell you that it came from my television. You asked this in regards to my claim of "Doomsday" vaults being built. If you think this is untrue, then you are obviously not looking. Just search Doomsday Vaults ABC news. Katie Couric did the story. Yes, you are correct that there is only one Universe, sorry I stand corrected on that. Apparently people thing we are coming in contact with Nibiru. I dont' know much about it, but just something to ponder. Just internet propaganda.

"The radio was invnted in 1896. This means that we have been sending signals out for 112 years. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light, so even if we assume that they could travel at the speed of light, they'd have to be 56 light years away to be able to get here. Given that there is about ten stars within that distance that even have planets, let alone earth-like ones, we should be ok. Also, this is a gross underestimate. Radio signals from 100 years ago aren't powerful enough to go that far, and the chances that any lifeformeven gotto 10% of the speed of light is unlikely."-Tastycles

Thats funny because, onw you are judging higher forms of intgelligence that may actually do the things you have just said were impossible. Your basing all of this on what "we" have found as a civilization. Who cares how long the radio has been around? You don't work for the US government you have no idea what has been developed in regards to techonology. Propaganda is everywhere, and just because the information you have been given or studied may sound rational, it infact may not be at all.

You are grossly underestimating life not only here, but everywhere else. Yes, from what we have discovered nothing travels faster than the speed of light. That works here, but what does that mean elsewhere? When I say elsewhere I mean parts of the universe that has not been discovered. Again knowledge is passed down, and that means there could be things out your knowledge and mine as well that hasn't been given to society. No, I have no proof to suggest that our government has new "science" that could have UFO's in our skies, or has figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light. Nothing has presented to suggest otherwise either. What you know of as science could just be the tip of what you could know, or haven't discovered. You should already know this. An open mind is a mind that holds no grudge against what could be?

You say that you are more inclined to religion than to any of this? What do you mean by "this"? At the end of my posts, I commented on space ships hovering over earth. No, I don't have any basis of this and I can see how one may say that what is happening with religion may be more believable than what I said. However that wasn't the basis of the posts at all. That was merley a poetic way of suggesting how we would react to something of this degree.

Again too many people have had many encounters with UFO's including Miliary, presidents, common people, etc... From what I understand that hasn't been much physical evidence to suggest that any of the major 3 religions are valid in any way shape or form. That is why it is ok to say that this must be something relevant because so many people have bare witness to it.

"There are countless things that many people believe in that don't necessarily exist. Take your own example of God - how can you not believe in Jehovah, if so many people say they have spoken to him?" -Tastycles

Yes, you are correct that people belive in things that don't necessarily exist. What is the difference between speaking to god, and seeing a real UFO? Simple, there is physical evidence. Anyone can say that they heard someone or something it is hard to disprove. However, many more people have seen real things in the sky, that can be credited to being UFO's. What don't you understand about this? How many presidents have talked to God, or military men, or normal people? God doesn't exist, because there is NO physical evidence to suggest "God" exists. Therefore you can not sit here, and ask such a silly question. There has been tons of evidence, and millions of people(including religious people). Do you actually think these people are lying?

People lie or hold onto their faiths because of fear. There is no reason for someone like myself at such a young age lie about seeing a UFO. It wasn't something I palnned. I don't benefit in anyway from telling this story other than the fact that it happened. I never belived in UFO's, and from that day I considered them to be something not of folklore. From that day I realized that this wasn't some bullshit, and it was something that should tell us that we have come really far, or we are not alone. You say there, and said that you do feel that it is foolish to think that we are alone, yet you discredit any report on someone seeing a UFO. As if to say that everyone who sees a UFO is just doing it to gain attention. That kind of logic can apply to anything.

Obviously with all the physical evidence to suggest that there are things in the sky that we can not explain that aren't stars, planet, comets, but actually highly engineered instruments to travel the vast universe, or even future war crafts for out military. Our universe is comprised of probably an infinite amount of lifeforms, big and small. Do you even realize that we as a people have only researched about 11% of all plant life of this very planet. What do we even know about the planet we live on? Scientists debate what is wrong with this planet all the time. Bottom line is I'm telling you that there are UFO's, and I saw one. Have you or anyone you know ever seen Jesus? I don't have to be a scientists to say that I saw something with my very own eyes that isn't familiar to possible non-believers. It is not about believing at this point as it is understanding that they do exists.

 

[Tastycles]

Before I start, I want you to know that I may go overboardhere,and if I do I apologise. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and you are arguing for yours. I am telling you why I think you are wrong. I do not intend to offend in anyway whatsoever.

If you reply to this, please endeavour to use the "quote" button on my argument of you wish to quote, as it makes for easier reading.

I obviously left out a huge piece of evidence in the "red dot" experience. I can understand why you would say it was probably mars, but it was moving around extremely fast, and no satellites don't move this fast. You weren't there, and I understand it is hard to swallow, but it happened. It wasn't a satellite, and it wasn't a planet. How funny of you to even think that I don't know the difference between a planet, and a moving object. Again that was my fault for not including the fact that the "red dot" was moving in directions that no man made craft can do.

Well, as planet means "the wanderer" I'd be mightily impressed if you could tell the difference between a planet, which is a moving object, and a moving object, which is also a moving object. Anyway, you said it was the size of Venus, and that it was a red dot. I'm willing to accept that it was moving too quickly to be Mars and too eratically to be a plane or satellite.

However, you seeing an unexplained dot does not mean that you saw an alien spacecraft. You have assumed that. It could have been anything. A quick moving laser shone at the sky would make a dot dart about. Ionization in the atmosphere would create an illusion similar to this, depending on ow it would happen. It could have been anything, you have no reason to assume it was even extra-terrestrial.

You say that I can not site examples of ancient civilizations experiences to all of this. Seriously? The peoples they described as having bird's heads were gods that they admired, and merely poetic. The other peoples were other tribes that they encountered in wars. Those tribes wore animal costumes to hide themselves, or as intimidation.

They worshipped God's with the heads of animals, which in itself would lead you to think that as a historical source of what had been seen, they were poor. However,don't forget that even if they are drwing ships from the sky, which they aren't, what's to say that isn't a poetic statement?

Have you ever seen some of the artwork. No, I don't feel that we as a society should go by what they have seen, but being someone who has seen a UFO I can relate. Anyone can say something came from the heavens, and I realize this. They needed storytelling just as much as the Europeans.

The Egyptians also worshipped the Sun. I suggest you go and look at the art and find me a picture that categorically isn't the sun, moon or some other known body. If you show me anything that has a "spaceship" but not the sun, it will be ignored. There is a large amount of "UFOs" in Italian renaissance art, but they are quite clearly nothing but Christian representations of God.

With your level of intelligence, and field of study this is such a strong contradiction. You of all people should know how vast the universe is. To actually think that the intelligence level of people is it, makes no sense at all.

Granted, it's controversial, but it makes perfect sense. The Theory of Evolution states that animals best suited to their locale will survive. Those that don't will die. In order to get were we are today, humans have had to be intelligent. However, we are intelligent enough now that when faced with a problem, we solve it, rather than adapting to it. There is no need for evolution to continue.

Here's an example. If we went into an ice age, what would you do? Would you go inside a warm building, which we have built, or would you hope that you grew more hair and chance it?

Human's do not need to be any more intelligent than we already are, because we can get machines, animals and plants to do everything we need, there's no need to further evolve. Given that any extra-terrestrial race would have to follow the same evolutionary curve as us, then it stands to reason that they wouldn't have evolved much more intelligent than us either.

Here's why: There are parts of the universe we have never seen, nor understand. Thus, to suggest that there insn't anything above what we have here is nonsense. Yes, we do adapt to our enviornments to suit us, but what does that have to do with their being higher forms of life than us? That statement proves nothing. You say that we can not really evolve beyond this point?

I've made my points above. Whether or not we've seen the whole universe is irrelevant. Life is carbon based, and has to be (it can be silicon based theoretically, but it isn't going to get past the amoeba-esque phase). The molecules that are needed are always going to be the same. DNA is one of a kind, and any lifeform would have to have it. The laws of physics, and therefore chemistry are unquestionably universal, so therefore we have to conclude that any life out there, will be a shite sight similar to anything here.

Once again a huge contradiction to your field of study. What we view as the evolution or adaptation of ourselves is completely irrelevant from everyother lifeform not of this planet. Life adapts to where it may exists, and what you have described is practically anti-progressive which again is a huge contradiction. Science is progression, and part of our existence is based on progression. Take humans 400 years ago to modern day. That is a huge gap in our evolution. We are getting bigger, stronger, smarter, faster, and more efficient. We went from oil lamps to wireless computers. Hell, 250 years ago no one thought we could ever reach the moon. Then we did. We didn't have the science back then, that we did now.

Yet more proof that humans are plenty intelligent enough. Do you really think that you are more intelligent than Isaac Newton because you can use the internet and he couldn't? You aren't. All that has changed in the last 400 years is our knowledge base. We are progressing at a fast rate, but it isn't evolution. I don't know how to get to the moon because my dad does, I know how to get there because someone taught me.

Any alien race could feasibly be further along than us in the knowledge progression, but they wouldn't be more intelligent than us for the reasons I have already mentioned. Could they have interstellar travel? Feasible. But they'd have literlly no reason for coming anywhere near earth. Imagine a beach. There are more stars in our galaxy than there are on that beach. Why would any alien lifeform choose the sun to go to out of all of them?

You say it is hard to understand my claim on knowledge being passed down without a deity on top. How? It is irrational to think that some thing just has all knowledge. Knowledge, or truth isn't just one thing. Various peoples have given tremendous amounts of knowledge to the world. There is no one "deity" at the top because knowledge is everywhere, and has no "one source". To suggest otherwise is truly insane, and not scientific in the least bit. With constant life, and things in motion on the outside of this world things are constantly happening in far away out of our sight.

There has to be a starting point for knowledge. I think it started in single celled organisms, that knew how to not die, and then got gradually more progressive. A dog knows how to understand "walkies" but can't understand or form language. It progresses up the evolutionary chain. Clearly, as people have lived through the ages they have given knowledge to each other people and that's how knowledge spreads, as far as I'm concerned.

Christians believe that God gave Adam knowledge.

You believe aliens gave us knowledge, but where did they get it from? You have to project either mine or the religious model elsewhere, unless you have some other reason?

Is there one Professor that teaches all professors? Why would this be any different?

No there isn't, but each prfessor has got their knowledge from the same pool of knowledge. I've explained how that got there in my opinion, how do you think it got there?

No, I have no proof that other life forms came here and gave us knowledge, but I do have an experience that I know happened, and it was a UFO not of Earth. If it is from Earth than your comment of us not being able to go any further than where we are at is simply dead. Either it was a part of some government experiment, or it was another intelligent life visiting this planet. There has been more physical evidence to suggest that there are UFO's than any other common religious belief. Again you weren't there, and I know what I saw, and it was real. Are you going to say millions of other people are wrong as well?

You've given just one of many possible explanations as to why you and these peopleare wrong. Some of them are liars. Not sying you, I really don't think you are lying, but some are.

You asked where I got my news from, and I will tell you that it came from my television. You asked this in regards to my claim of "Doomsday" vaults being built. If you think this is untrue, then you are obviously not looking. Just search Doomsday Vaults ABC news. Katie Couric did the story.

I'll accept they are true, but it doesn't mean they have anything at all to do with aliens.

Yes, you are correct that there is only one Universe, sorry I stand corrected on that. Apparently people thing we are coming in contact with Nibiru. I dont' know much about it, but just something to ponder. Just internet propaganda.

I don't thimk anybody who understands anything at allabout the Solar System has believed that Nibiru exists for about 6000 years. The Babylonians made a mistake,and a load of nerds jumped on the bandwagon. It was going to destroy us in 2003, now it's 2012. It couldn't be any more bullshit

Thats funny because, onw you are judging higher forms of intgelligence that may actually do the things you have just said were impossible. Your basing all of this on what "we" have found as a civilization. Who cares how long the radio has been around? You don't work for the US government you have no idea what has been developed in regards to techonology. Propaganda is everywhere, and just because the information you have been given or studied may sound rational, it infact may not be at all.

You are grossly underestimating life not only here, but everywhere else. Yes, from what we have discovered nothing travels faster than the speed of light. That works here, but what does that mean elsewhere?

I have no idea how old you are, or what kind of grasp you have of physics, but I can tell you this. It is a categorical fact that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Einstein's law of special relativity proves that you would need infinite enrgy to reach the speed of light. As energy is a fixed quantity in the universe, again a fact, if someone somewhere had got to the speed of light, neither of us would exist. The Universe has to obey the laws of physics, if it din't it would fall apart.

For the record, I said that the spacemen could go at 10% of the speed of light in my analogy. To let you know how gererous I was being I'll let you in a few facts. The fastest ever man made object are probes that orbit the sun called the Helios probes. They go at 70km/s. The speed of light is 300,000 km/s. So I said that these aliens could go around 500 times faster than we could. I think that is pretty reasonable guess work.

When I say elsewhere I mean parts of the universe that has not been discovered. Again knowledge is passed down, and that means there could be things out your knowledge and mine as well that hasn't been given to society. No, I have no proof to suggest that our government has new "science" that could have UFO's in our skies, or has figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light. Nothing has presented to suggest otherwise either. What you know of as science could just be the tip of what you could know, or haven't discovered. You should already know this. An open mind is a mind that holds no grudge against what could be?

I have an open mind. There are plenty of theories I don't buy. Einstein's special relativity is the stone cold truth though. The only reason we can't see these other parts of the universe you discuss is because they are too far away and the light isn't here yet.

You say that you are more inclined to religion than to any of this? What do you mean by "this"? At the end of my posts, I commented on space ships hovering over earth. No, I don't have any basis of this and I can see how one may say that what is happening with religion may be more believable than what I said. However that wasn't the basis of the posts at all. That was merley a poetic way of suggesting how we would react to something of this degree.

I was referring to that comment, yes. If it's any consolation, I believe aliens are probably out there, I just don't think we'll ever meet them. I struggle to believe there is a God out there.

Again too many people have had many encounters with UFO's including Miliary, presidents, common people, etc... From what I understand that hasn't been much physical evidence to suggest that any of the major 3 religions are valid in any way shape or form. That is why it is ok to say that this must be something relevant because so many people have bare witness to it.

Well Jesus was a real person wandering around preaching to love one another, as was Mohammed. You're going to have to clarify your presidents and UFO comments, I don't have a clue what you are on about.

Remember, for 40 years "UFO" meant either "Russian Spyplane" or "Futuristic Fighter we will use on the Russians". Seriously, look how many triangular UFOs were seen in 1987-88, before the Stealth Fighter came out.

Yes, you are correct that people belive in things that don't necessarily exist. What is the difference between speaking to god, and seeing a real UFO? Simple, there is physical evidence. Anyone can say that they heard someone or something it is hard to disprove. However, many more people have seen real things in the sky, that can be credited to being UFO's. What don't you understand about this? How many presidents have talked to God, or military men, or normal people? God doesn't exist, because there is NO physical evidence to suggest "God" exists. Therefore you can not sit here, and ask such a silly question. There has been tons of evidence, and millions of people(including religious people). Do you actually think these people are lying?

Why should I believe your eyes over George Bush's ears? You're physical proof is what yousaw. His proof he spoke to God is what he heard, it's exactly the same thing.

People lie or hold onto their faiths because of fear. There is no reason for someone like myself at such a young age lie about seeing a UFO. It wasn't something I palnned. I don't benefit in anyway from telling this story other than the fact that it happened. I never belived in UFO's, and from that day I considered them to be something not of folklore. From that day I realized that this wasn't some bullshit, and it was something that should tell us that we have come really far, or we are not alone. You say there, and said that you do feel that it is foolish to think that we are alone, yet you discredit any report on someone seeing a UFO. As if to say that everyone who sees a UFO is just doing it to gain attention. That kind of logic can apply to anything.

No, you believe what you believe. I think you are wrong. I know someone who found God literally overnight and became a staunch Mormon, because he had a religious vision. You had a vision, now you believe in UFOs and aliens shaping mankind. You're the same.

Obviously with all the physical evidence to suggest that there are things in the sky that we can not explain that aren't stars, planet, comets, but actually highly engineered instruments to travel the vast universe, or even future war crafts for out military. Our universe is comprised of probably an infinite amount of lifeforms, big and small. Do you even realize that we as a people have only researched about 11% of all plant life of this very planet. What do we even know about the planet we live on? Scientists debate what is wrong with this planet all the time. Bottom line is I'm telling you that there are UFO's, and I saw one. Have you or anyone you know ever seen Jesus? I don't have to be a scientists to say that I saw something with my very own eyes that isn't familiar to possible non-believers. It is not about believing at this point as it is understanding that they do exists.

Jesus is a very bad example. There's more factual evidence on Jesus' life than there is on Julius Caeser's. You saw a unidentified flying object, that I don't doubt. I do doubt that the explanation for that UFO is that it was manned by aliens.