Bad Taste?

[lonely_god]

I don't know about any of you, but seeing Shawn Michaels use the crossface during the raw main event left me feeling quite uncomfortable..

I expected to see a sharpshooter as a nod of the head for ten years ago, but the crossface?

Did anyone else think its too soon to see that particular finisher in a high profile match?

 

[cobain]

It suprised me but I don't think it was in bad taste.

In the end it's just a move, it wasn't even invented by Chris it was invented by Dean Malenko.

I understand that everyone knows Chris for it but at the same time the WWE has to be able to move on from it.

The only thing that was in poor taste about it to me was that it was grouped in with the sharpshooter (obviously the whole screw job incident) and the ankle lock (shawn has spoken negativly about kurt since he has left)

so to group it in with two guys moves that shawn doesn't respect was kind of sad

 

[jabba_lashley]

yeah i just read the survivor series results, i dont think it was used in bad taste but it still probly wasnt the best idea, since it was only 5 months ago, seems long but it feels like just yesterday...also like you said he used it between the finishers of men he does not respect (hart, angle).

 

[BooCocky]

I don't know about any of you, but seeing Shawn Michaels use the crossface during the raw main event left me feeling quite uncomfortable..

I expected to see a sharpshooter as a nod of the head for ten years ago, but the crossface?

Did anyone else think its too soon to see that particular finisher in a high profile match?

But in all honesty, what is wrong with Him using the Crossface? It is a submission move created by Dean Malenko. how could it make you feel uncomfortable, i dont think it was meant to believe that they were trying to mock Chris Benoit, after all it is only a wrestling move.

Now about the Sharpshooter, that is still a wrestling maneuver, and has been used by many superstars, even a modified version, even though that was like a kick in the head about the whole "screw job" incident. The whole thing didn't surprise me because we all know anything can happen in the WWE , but it is only a wrestling move and you can not live off of anything in the past, so i was perfectly fine with him using those submission moves.

 

[Riddler Phoenix]

it was just a wrestling move and SHAWN DOES NOT RESPECT BENOIT.

WWE HATES BENOIT because of all the shit and trouble that he caused them by killing his innocent family while he was under a wwe talent contract.

who cares if benoit was a great fake pro wrestler. wwe will never honor this scumbag killer and neither will a good family man and religious man like shawn michaels.

I think you're being a bit too critical. You don't know for sure if shawn hates benoit or not. A combination of steroids and brain damage was what made Benoit do what he did, but you can't say that makes people automatically not respect him, it just means they aren't going to acknowledge him.

Anyway, i think Shawn using the move was perfectly fine. Even if they went ten years before letting that move be used again, people would get uncomfortable. But by using it, that lessens the blow for the next time it's used. Next time it's seen, it won't be as big a deal.

 

[dmc05]

I think that HBK using the Sharpshooter was expected, and I'm fine w/ the Ankle Lock... but the Crossface? That makes me lose much respect for HBK and WWE... Had Jericho not been coming back tonight, I'd refuse to watch the debacle that has become the WWE anymore. and WWE better use Jericho right, but I fear for the legacy of Y2J... God be with you Chris... in this WWE, u'll need all the help he can provide..

 

[spursgalea]

i dont think it is in bad taste to use the crossface becuse of what cris did.we all hate hate him that. i would think when you are in a match you are not thinking about the moves you use.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

WWE HATES BENOIT because of all the shit and trouble that he caused them by killing his innocent family while he was under a wwe talent contract.

I am glad one of Shawn Michael's personal friends has come on to our boards to tell us all exactly what Shawn Michaels feels about the situation. Thank you, Marcos! Please give Shawn our regards!

Anyway, I was surprised to, but I liked it. Shawn Michaels in one match accomplished something major - he opened the door for us to move on. Move on from the screwjob, move on from Benoit, and move on from Kurt Angle even.

Let's face it, the Crossface is an effective, fast, and famous wrestling maneuver, and to ban it because of the personal actions of one man is silly. Let's all move on.

 

[Mr. TM]

Sharpshooter: I think the reason they did this was obviously a shot at the Screw Job, I do not think anyone can deny that.
Cross Face: I do not know why they did this, It could just be because WWE was looking for a finisher. I do not know why they choose this one though. I know Dean invented the move, but Chris Benoit was the man who made it famous. I think WWE should start using it, but not on this night. I think a veteran should be given it, as any rookie to use this right after Benoit would be hated for the rest of his career.
Ankle Lock: I think this was the best choice for a sensible finisher. Sure there is the talk of the Shawn/Kurt feud, but I have not heard anything with fact behind it to believe it. Kurt has left WWE, and they needed to get that finisher submission move back into the WWE. Ken Shamrock used it too before Kurt, So I do not see what the big deal is. I would not mind if shawn put the ankle lock into his moveset. Every top tier wrestler should have a side finisher that is a submission move IMO.

In Conclusion, WWE use of the sharpshooter was inevitable, the crossface was uncalled for at this time, and the ankle lock was just.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

I don't think it was in bad taste at all. Is the WWE supposed to ban the move now, just because the guy who made it famous (but didn't invent it, as previously stated) turned out to be a psycho? No. That's like saying nobody should ever use a running powerslam because Davey Boy did it and he was on steroids, so you shouldn't mimic a move done by a guy who did steroids.

If anything, I'm glad they used it, because we haven't seen it, and its good that it was in a positive light as opposed to Orton doing it, which would have brought more heat. If you have a heel do it, it would've seemed more...what's the word I'm looking for?....barbaric? disheartening? Idk. "Bad". Lol. But, having a face, and especially a face that's particularly such a positive type of guy in the minds of the average fan, it sort of helps dilute the sting, do you know what I mean?

I was glad to see some submission moves in this match as its rare we get to see them. Normally the matches nowadays consist of punches, a clothesline, and a run-in from someone not involved in the match.

 

[JadeShocker]

Who doesn't Shawn respect? Shawn Michaels never said he didn't respect Bret Hart, or Chris Benoit.

I think the point of using these moves around the same time was to show that he's been in the business a lot longer than Randy, and that he has a lot more experience. Showing where he's been through the years, and showing that he's taken from everyone he's wrestled.

Shawn Michaels was one of the guys who tributed Benoit after he died. Whether you believe it or not.. Shawn Michaels is a bit different than he used to be. Back in 96.. You're damn right this would have been a sign of disrespect. But now he's got kid who's gotta' be like eight or nine years old by now. Just because he was a dick, doesn't mean he still is. Sheesh.. Give the guy some credit. Besides that, Vince wouldn't let him go out and disrespect these guys. He's tried his hardest the past five years to reconcile with Bret. He wouldn't mess it all up now. Anyway.. That's my opinion.

 

[saveusjwjf]

All of you are missing the point... These moves were not performed to acknowledge any of those superstars or their infamous incidents... Do you remember why sweet chin music was banned for that match? It was because orton said that was all michaels had to fall back on and that he could not outwrestle him.... well, what better way to prove that you can wrestle with anybody on any day than to perform the finishers of 3 of the greatest technical wrestlers the wwe has ever had? it was to prove the point that shawn michaels is/was as good a wrestler as any or all 3 of those guys put together... shawn michaels in a wrestling match? what a novel idea!

 

[HBK-aholic]

I don't know about any of you, but seeing Shawn Michaels use the crossface during the raw main event left me feeling quite uncomfortable..

I expected to see a sharpshooter as a nod of the head for ten years ago, but the crossface?

Did anyone else think its too soon to see that particular finisher in a high profile match?

Hmm. I did think it was too soon to use this particular move. But I in no way think it was anything to do with Benoit. At one point or another in his career, Shawn has tapped out to the submission moves in a championship match. I think that's what was being highlighted.

I'm a big fan of Shawn, and I think most people know he wouldn't purposely be distasteful over the death of a former friend, whatever controversy is surrounding the death.

 

[No Count Pup]

Yes, it was in bad taste. But, WWE does many things in bad taste. It treats women as sexual objects, it's blasphemous, it poked fun at a deceased Eddie Guerrero, and it uses foul language.

WWE is distasteful 60% of the time. And yet, we still watch with a passion. Let's face it: distaste is part of the experience.

I am cerain about one thing though. If anyone was bored with that match, the Crossface woke them up. McMahon knows how to work a crowd.








But I must be honest. I do miss the days when WWE was inoffensive, harmless fun. It was far more tasteful back then.

 

[a7xoff]

HBK I think is the kind of guy that holds many many people in high respect. I really don't think the crossface was used out of bad taste. It's a move, and from what WWE made it look like with Benoit, a damn powerful move. Since HBK could not use sweet chin music, he said on Raw what would happen if he won by submission. Really I was not surprised to see HBK use the sharpshooter, crossface, and even the anklelock for that matter. When he did them he got a big reaction from the crowd. Which is what WWE want. Crowd reaction. I really doubt it was bad taste. Again... It's just a move and like someone said earlier, it's not like Benoit created it or anything.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Wrestling fans are so predictable sometimes... this is the second thread so far on HBK's use of the crossface. It kind of just blows me away that fans would be offended by his use of the crossface and yet they always complain about the WWE "erasing" Benoit from products and such. It was a controversial move no doubt, but hey what's the 10th Anniversary of the Screwjob supposed to be if not controversial?

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[CrazyYugo13]

For Shawn to use the sharpshooter at Survivor Series should have prompted no surprise to any wrestling fan who knows a thing or two about the history of Survivor Series. That move was used for history and for the fans to remember it. Then Shawn's use of the crossface may have been too early or may not have been early in some mind's but it is time for the company to move on as a whole and using the crossface may have been the first right step in that direction. The crossface caught me off guard then he put an the ankle lock and grapevined it just like you would see Kurt Angle doing in WWE about a year and a half ago and that also caught me off guard. I think the ankle lock was justified and there should be no problem with that. In my opinion I beleive the three main submission moves by the three greatest ring technicians in the history of the WWE was a brilliant move and the fans in attendance also did as you could hear one of the loudest pops of the night by far.

 

[RKO72887]

that actually did surprise me a little bit when i saw shawn michaels use the crossface but i don't know if he did it to be a dick or in rememberence of him(which i doubt) or if he just did it not thinking but who cares. I liked chris benoit and still do AS A WRESTLER!!! i did not know him personally never wanted too his personal life was his personal life and nobodys buisness but his and his family and as far as im concerened i do not give a crap about it anymore move on its done and over with!! and as long as Randy Orton won the match i dont care what shawn michaels does he sucks!

 

[Y2J316]

Yes, it was in bad taste. But, WWE does many things in bad taste. It treats women as sexual objects, it's blasphemous, it poked fun at a deceased Eddie Guerrero, and it uses foul language.

WWE is distasteful 60% of the time. And yet, we still watch with a passion. Let's face it: distaste is part of the experience.

I am cerain about one thing though. If anyone was bored with that match, the Crossface woke them up. McMahon knows how to work a crowd.

1. Of coarse there treated as sexual objects cuz half of them have been in playboy! (Exhadgeration of coarse) Plus none of them seem to have a problem with it cuz if they did then it would b all over the news and would end up on a forum like so.

2. When does the WWE poke fun at Eddie Guerrero? Cuz Vikie has a job in the WWE? They were starting to use Vikie while Eddie was alive! The only thing the WWE did that i didn't like was the fued between Chavo and Rey with Vikie taking Chavo's side. Obviously the fued was about Eddie but nothing really poked any fun at Eddie himself.

3. Uses foul language? If u don't want to hear it then tune into Nickelodean, Cartoon Network or PBS cuz that's the only place u won't hear "Foul language".

4. 60% is way to high, more like 10% if that. Millions of little kids watch the show and so far no complaints about anything being to "distasteful".

The product is fine and for the most part has actually cleaned itself up since the Attitude era.

 

[skibbiez]

There was nothing wrong with using that move. Many wrestlers use deceased wrestlers moves all the time and no one says anything. This is just a case that shawn said, in the interview on raw, "maybe I'll beat you with a submission hold." This was nothing more than another submission hold. The sharpshooter was used by Chris Benoit too, and yet no one complains that it was in bad taste. Umaga uses the flying headbutt, yet it's not in bad taste. It's just a wrestling move, nothing more. You people need to realize this is just entertainment and stop with the cynicism and enjoy the product. I felt it was perfectly justified to show that shawn could beat randy in other ways other than the superkick.

 

[Batistabomb10]

You guys can chop it up to bad taste if you want, but remember this: Good taste does not bring in ratings. It's that added after-taste that leaves us coming back for more.

Here is the thing: Those moves are just moves. Shawn wasn't referring to Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, or anyone else when he performed them. They are just wrestling maneuvers! No matter what anyone says about them being Hart's and Benoit's finishers, they are nothing more than a particular wrestling move. Imagine if nobody ever did a Knife-edge chop because Benoit passed away. Since Benoit used the move while wrestling, everyone thought it would be too distasteful to perform one ever again. That would be ridiculous.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is pointless to think that Shawn was hinting at or having a flashback to either man. He was simply wrestling, whichs is what he vowed he would do. I think Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton put on one hell of a match at Survivor Series!

 

[jback]

I dont think their is any reason y people should get the nickers in a knot. Firstly the crossface was not invented or only used bu benoit. People used the move before him and will after him. Its just a submission move. I dont even think the hbk even thought of benoit or angle for that matter when doing th submissons(hart maybe). Its a move plain and simple.

 

[Meilichia]

This is a bit silly, I mean its a wrestling move, fair enough it was linked to Benoit, but it wasn't his move, i mean even JR still has it on his menu if i remember correctly. It didn't shock me at all, its a well known submission move just like the sharp shooter and the ankle lock, not to mention it's a rubbish looking move, and was not sold at all well, they should have just used a figure four or something similar, that Orton could have worked with.

 

[Father:_Polley]

how about the whole low-rider thing just after eddie died, rey being pushed cos he was close 2 eddie and using his moves. no1 complained that he was using all eddie's moves. that's just as tasteless and personally, i was disgusted more by that than using a move that benoit was associated with.

i'm sorry if it annoys people but i disagree...it's time to move on past the benoit incident and not have heart failure anytime someone hits rolling german suplexes or a crossface.

michaels was using the moves because they've been the most famous submission moves in recent years, not because of who they represent.

that's my opinion and u can disagree with me

 

[NickFlair]

I was watching the show with a group of guys and we were all surprised he did the move, being that WWE has erased Benoit from history. The sharpshooter I saw coming from 5 miles away, although the ankle lock was just to piss off Kurt Angle...how much you wanna bet that Angle will do the super kick within 2 weeks? (not sure of the taping schedule)

I think overall it was just a weak attempt to inject some controversy into the 10th anniversary of the 97 job...HBK is a heat magnet, and being at the center of the 97 job AND this ppv being survivor series, it made sense...hell, we are posting about it, so it made an impact.