Another Fundamental Problem With TNA - Pacing

[Uncle Sam]

I previously made a thread saying that one of TNA's biggest problems was that they could never complete a proper story arc. Well, I was browsing this other forum and I came across a point that I kind of agree with. Now, these guys don't normally come out with anything good. They're usually too busy burning crosses outside Cena's house and having a group wank over anything Japanese. But this one guy pointed out that TNA wasn't paced properly and so I thought, "I need to make a thread on something, otherwise they'll think I've disappeared off." And so here we are.

The basic point is this: if you're watching iMPACT!, they're just not giving you any room to breathe. I suppose that's excusable on pay-per-view, but on iMPACT! they just bounce you from segment to segment to segment. And the problem is, they're all sold as equal importance. From Sting to Hogan to Abyss to Nasty Boyz to Sting again to AJ Styles, etc. At least on Raw you get some throwaway celebrity bullshit to give you some breathing room.

 

[makeitvab]

So....



You're complaining that there isn't filler?

I haven't been watching tna or even wwe outside of punk moments on hulu to be honest but christ you're grasping at straws.

I'm sorry, I know your thing is "tna is garbage blah blah blah wwe is roxors" but with this thread, it doesn't even seem like you tried. You even mentioned "Oh noes, I better post otherwise they'll think I'm gone!"

Who gives a shit?

Only reason I'm responding is apparently this is a "Hot topic" on the main page so I clicked on it and was so disapointed I actually logged in.

You can do better Sam, I believe in you!

 

[psykohurricane]

I've actually agree with you Sam. But that's been a problem since IMPACT started on Spike TV. When they were only a 1 hour show, they would try to fit a 2 hour worth of programming into a 1 hour show. Then they got 2 hours and they tried to fit 3 hours of programming into one show. So the pacing problem as been a problem for a very long time. But another problem they use to have when they were taping their show was distributing the segments they taped so that every show work on the same level. When they were taping 3 or 4 shows at a time, you would get most of the matches on one or two shows then all the interviews and backstage skits on the others shows.

I've been saying for the last 5 years that TNA needs to pace themshelves, the most important story you need to get across as important is the main event feud, in this case the Abyss vs A.J. Styles feud. That'S the feud that's going to sell the PPV, then if the Jeff Jarrett/Mic Foley vs Eric Bischoff will lead to a PPV match then promote it if not use it as a background story, same thing goes for the Sting storyline, if it lead to something in the near future promote the hell out of it, if not then use it as background, the mid-card storyline should be treated as just that, mid-card storyline, they don'T need to be on t.v every week. Finally has much as it pain me to say it, use the x-division and the knockout division as fillers instead of important part of the company, these divisions don'T need to have storylines incorporated into them and provide a good distraction in between feud.

If they want to compete with the WWE, they need to pace themshelves because while the WWE doesn't have the best product, you still remember what'S going on after watching it because the let you digest it. Just look at Last friday'S smackdown, the show was all about Rey mysterio and C.M. Punk. This was the main angle, so they did the main interview at the beginning, put a couple of filler match and reminded us of all the other stories without making them look has important as the punk/mysterio and at the end of the night, before the last segment, they had the blow off and it was way more affective then anything TNA did on IMPACT, because WWE didn't put the focus on anything else. You had some little things to reminded us that other feuds were going on but they didn'T put the focus on them.

Until TNA learn to pace themselves instead of wanting to please everyone on the roster, they won't win a war with the WWE because they won't keep casual fans interested in the product.

 

[AndyUK]

I definitely know what you mean. I mean, I've enjoyed their TV a hell of a lot more than WWE's for the most part lately but they do try and cram in so much stuff in the show and they really don't give you time to take everything in. There was one show a couple of weeks ago where they had about twenty different segments with twenty different wrestlers and four matches that lasted less than five minutes. There was two matches early in the show and then an eternity before the next two. It was just too much.

I mean, there definitely isn't any filler on the show and that is great but they should spread the segments they have out over a number of weeks. I think the main thing they could do is make the matches a little longer and just cut back on three or four segments because it will make a big difference.

 

[Uncle Sam]

So....

You're complaining that there isn't filler?

Pretty much. Think about WrestleMania, to steal an example from Y 2 Jake. Between big matches you've got the ones nobody could give a fuck about. You've got Snoop Dogg doing a skit with Santino or the divas doing that really boring thing they do - y'know, wrestling. That's not done accidentally - it's so the audience doesn't get worn out by frenetic pacing. And that's WrestleMania, when people are prepared to be hyped up.

I'm sorry, I know your thing is "tna is garbage blah blah blah wwe is roxors"

It is? If you say so, mate.

TNA can be tiring and awkward to watch - and I think the speed they throw things at you is part of the reason.

 

[finneycom1]

I previously made a thread saying that one of TNA's biggest problems was that they could never complete a proper story arc. Well, I was browsing this other forum and I came across a point that I kind of agree with. Now, these guys don't normally come out with anything good. They're usually too busy burning crosses outside Cena's house and having a group wank over anything Japanese. But this one guy pointed out that TNA wasn't paced properly and so I thought, "I need to make a thread on something, otherwise they'll think I've disappeared off." And so here we are.

The basic point is this: if you're watching iMPACT!, they're just not giving you any room to breathe. I suppose that's excusable on pay-per-view, but on iMPACT! they just bounce you from segment to segment to segment. And the problem is, they're all sold as equal importance. From Sting to Hogan to Abyss to Nasty Boyz to Sting again to AJ Styles, etc. At least on Raw you get some throwaway celebrity bullshit to give you some breathing room.

You know, I could never put my finger on it, but I think you are absolutely right. I think about watching Raw now and how much me and my buddies would bitch about another Hornswoggle skit and how stupid and boring it was. The said skit would be right after a quality promo or great match. But it gave me time to get adjusted to the next good promo or great match.

When the announcers at TNA get just as excited about a Nasty Boys match as they do a Kurt Angle vs. Styles match, it does seem a bit awkward!

You bring a very good point that I havent really thought of before.

 

[The Doctor]

I definitely see where you're coming from. By the time the Beer Money/Jarrett segment and main event came, I was worn out and bored. I had spent the past hour getting bombarded with promos, matches, and commercials, one straight after another.

However, it has its benefits. Apart from those segments, I felt that Impact was extremely exciting because things moved fast and hard. It felt as though things were actually happening live, as opposed to RAW which felt like a TV show.

However, if they want us to not get worn out by the end of the show, they need to either slow things down by lengthening segments, or putting in filler.

 

[Tenebrous]

I agree with the pacing of storylines to a certain extent. My issue is I can't tell who is face or heel from week to week. For example, Beer Money-why/when did they turn? Otherwise TNA is becoming more and more entertaining minus the Abyss fiasco.

 

[Sandpiper]

I don't see the difference personally. Smackdown did the same thing by having Punk/Mysterio highlighted in the first segment and again near the end just as TNA did with Abyss/AJ. Also, Smackdown did put the focus on other things including most importantly the Jericho/Edge feud in the last segment. Which makes it just as equally important as Punk/Mysterio since it was in fact the last segment. That means it carries equal importance. I don't see what the problem is having another feud like Angle/Anderson being focused on as well. Impact had filler matches as well...Knockout's tag match, Jarrett/Beer Money.

I think you are grasping at straws a little.

 

[Coco]

I've always considered pacing a rather flimsy complaint about TNA's product in that people complain about the exact opposite when it comes to Raw. People really don't seem to know what they want in regards to this. On Raw, filler is seen as boring and a great reason to change the channel. In TNA, it's needed because all of their content seems too important and burns people out. It's absurd to me. Until a consensus is reached on this, I'm not sure what to say as it's near impossible to tell which format is most likely to keep people hooked for an entire two hour broadcast. However, I can see where TNA is coming from in regards to the way they book their shows at the moment. If people who aren't familiar with TNA change the channel and see unimportant content that's clearly filler on this supposed cutting-edge alternative, why keep watching? However, if everything is the most important thing even, you don't give people a chance to change the channel. That's smart. At least it is on paper.

To be frank, for weekly TV where you can use commercials to control for "out of breath," I think it's best not to give people too many reasons to change the channel (Ric Flair's breasts aside). But I'm old fashioned in that I like there to be more potato chips in a bag than air. Maybe the attention span of today's audience makes it hard to handle all those chips without some air in between. On the other hand, obesity sure is a major issue at the moment.

 

[Schizophrenic]

I agree to an extent. I do think thngs feel rushed and sometimes they need to give you a minute to wrap your head around things. Then again the company is called Total Nonstop Action. So I guess it fits. But I do think if they slowed some stuff down it would have a better overall feel to the show insted of segment, segmant, segmant one after another at lightning speed. I do think that a problem with that could be controlled by adding another hour of programming on another night. Hell even an hour show at the normal start time on Thursdays would be beneficial. TNA wouldn't feel like they have to try to put everyone and everything on two hour blocks. Plus you would be able to watch SuperStars and whatever TNA would call it (Xplosion most likely) one after another.

 

[mikeyboy]

persoally i enjoy tnas pacing the bouncing from segment to segment and treating everything with equal importance as someone posted earlier keeps my attention a hell of a lot better than having to see everything revolve around cena,hhh or shawn michaels on raw

 

[gd]

I think I understand where you're coming from with this. It's like when they go to the back after an Angle match for "big news" where you see the BP brawling or something. Obviously, you don't care about the BP brawling and it's annoying when the announcers hype it up as such.

Am I even talking about the subject anymore? Pacing is just the way you move from segment to segment, right? I'd say that it isn't a terrible thing if TNA moves helter skelter to every segment or match. It kind of builds more excitement and it's not nearly as big of a problem as the fact that Elijah Burke is alledgedly a main eventer.

 

[burnout4200]

I always get tired of people asking why they call it "Total Non Stop Action" even though The X-Division isn't as prominent as it use to be. Well I never attributed that name to The X-Division or their in ring product. Total Non Stop Action refers to quick paced storylines with the pacing issue Sam is speaking of. There's no down time if you watch TNA. The action is non stop and they're always throwing something at you. The pacing is what made me a TNA fan because I find it to be exciting. What I missed about wrestling most was the excitement. TNA always has something exciting going on and there isn't a wasted segment.

Alot of people that reviewed both Monday Night Impacts said they were surprised at how little they actually changed the channel to RAW. I feel that can be directly attributed to the Total Nonstop Action mentality as well. Filler would have made them change to WWE ... but there wasn't any. This is why I think TNA has a chance in the long run. Their style can make it extremely easy to hold a viewer once they get them watching. That is a recipe for long term ratings growth. A show that can make you hold your pee consistently is a show that can make you an addict.

 

[a0161613]

I see your point Sam. The way Impact is structured is so unbalanced. One week will be filled with segments (and 16 seconds of wrestling or whatever KB mentioned ) and like this week, you can't move for segment then wrestling. This weeks Impact had no real fller because everything seemed so relevant. They had nearly two months to build the BP winning the tag belts, the X Division to be revived and really the only thing to be developed since Jan 4th was AJ & Flair. That is poor for me.

However, this week as a standalone episode was thrilling in my opinion. And as I only watch live programming sporadically, I would say it's the best two hours of wrestling I have watched since the Attitude era.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have to agree with numbers because last Monday was the most entertaining 2 hour wrestling show I've seen in a long time. I couldn't say that about the last Impact on Thursday because that show blew. I liked the January 4th show, but everything felt rushed with too many segments involving Nasty Boys, Bubba, Hall and Six Pac, and those awful segments involving Val Venis and the Beautiful People playing cards.

Some people like filler like boring Santino or Hornswoggle skits so they can catch their breath from the "epic" 20 minute stare down between Taker and HBK. I guess I'm an adrenaline junkie. I would for every Impact or even Raw to be smooth yet fast paced like last Mondays' Impact was. There was an even amount of matches and segments spaced throughout the show. I couldn't say that about the last few Impacts where most of the time was wasted being spent on Foley taking etiquette lessons.

One thing I have noticed on these forums is that good or bad, TNA has always been the number one topic of discussion lately. Even though WrestleMania is around the corner, I've seen more topics about TNA then the showcase of the immortals. Anyways, I guess it depends on what you like. Some people like a slow steady product that barely gets their pulse going, and some are adrenaline junkies like me that like a high intense show every week. To each his own.

 

[pgerasucks]

i think myself that thats what makes tna alot more exciting then wwe and gives it a more realistic feel because i dont want breathing room or whatever that even means i want all night to be action packed and have me wanting more not a bland show that i already predicted was gonna happen two weeks ago thats just how i feel

 

[Tastycles]

Pacing in TNA is a huge problem, because it saps the energy out of the viewer, and if everything is tense, then your main event ratings drop off. It is of 0% suprise that TNA's main event drops off, because the audience is exhausted by that point. It needn't be boring segments that you use between matches and stuff, you just need to slow them down. Something like Scott Hall doing an interview backstage is calm, and you can even develop a storyline without setting pulses racing. TNA will always have someone raise their voice or come in and attack someone during promos and segments, and that is just sensory overload. The reason everyone things WrestleMania was shit last year is because Michaels and Taker sapped the audience dry, and the two main events, particularly the triple threat looked worse than they were because the audience, and you watching, were completely dead.

Impact offers that every week on a smaller scale, and they need to tone down on their intense backstage segments. The point of that aspect of wrestling is to break it up for the audience, and ending every single segment with a brawl doesn't do that.

 

[Suneeboy]

Wait a minute. Last I checked TNA stood for Total Non-Stop Action Wrestling, which means the action NEVER stops. Also last I checked they only have 2 hours to work with on a weekly basis, while the WWE has 6 hours per week to work with. Who do you think is going to have more filler? Who do you think is going to try to incorporate gimmicks and have more bathroom breaks during their program? So you want TNA to follow suit and put “pointless” and “boring” segments into their program so people can breathe? What the fuck is the point of commercials then? The WWE does it because they are not creative, not to set a “pace”. That’s why some shows are better than others.

I’m sure if Hornswaggle and The Bella Twins were on TNA doing boring sketches there’d be complaints about how boring it is, just like there are a ton of complaints about it when the WWE does it. I just don’t understand the logic behind putting in boring and pointless segments.

By the time the main event comes on TNA on a lot of nights are you worn out because you’ve been watching for a while, or are you worn out because it’s 11:00 PM and you are counting down when you are going to go to sleep because you have to wake up in the morning? Have you ever noticed, that sometimes your wide awake at 11 and sometimes you’re just drained because you had a long day?

I don’t know about you, but if you have any type of life in the day that includes leaving the house and actually doing something it is usually hit or miss come 11 o’clock on how much energy you have…unless you are with a group of people.

Let me end here so this can remain a response and not turn into a rant.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Wait a minute. Last I checked TNA stood for Total Non-Stop Action Wrestling, which means the action NEVER stops. Also last I checked they only have 2 hours to work with on a weekly basis, while the WWE has 6 hours per week to work with. Who do you think is going to have more filler? Who do you think is going to try to incorporate gimmicks and have more bathroom breaks during their program? So you want TNA to follow suit and put “pointless” and “boring” segments into their program so people can breathe? What the fuck is the point of commercials then? The WWE does it because they are not creative, not to set a “pace”. That’s why some shows are better than others.

I’m sure if Hornswaggle and The Bella Twins were on TNA doing boring sketches there’d be complaints about how boring it is, just like there are a ton of complaints about it when the WWE does it. I just don’t understand the logic behind putting in boring and pointless segments.

By the time the main event comes on TNA on a lot of nights are you worn out because you’ve been watching for a while, or are you worn out because it’s 11:00 PM and you are counting down when you are going to go to sleep because you have to wake up in the morning? Have you ever noticed, that sometimes your wide awake at 11 and sometimes you’re just drained because you had a long day?

I don’t know about you, but if you have any type of life in the day that includes leaving the house and actually doing something it is usually hit or miss come 11 o’clock on how much energy you have…unless you are with a group of people.

Let me end here so this can remain a response and not turn into a rant.

If the action never stops, then why don't TNA run 24/7?

The same problem that TNA has can easily be related to WWE pay-per-views. In PPV's it is important for there to be filler matches in between great matches to give the crowd a break and be ready for the next match. If you have great match after great match, the crowd will be dead pretty quickly such as Wrestlemania 18.

TNA wouldn't hurt to do a little comedy segment here or there. It gives the crowd a chance to rest and gear up for the next match. The last thing TNA wants is the crowd dead for a main event and if they keep bombarding them with segment after segment and stick to their total non-stop action theme you seem to think they have, then it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Suneeboy]

If the action never stops, then why don't TNA run 24/7?

You can do better than that.

The same problem that TNA has can easily be related to WWE pay-per-views. In PPV's it is important for there to be filler matches in between great matches to give the crowd a break and be ready for the next match. If you have great match after great match, the crowd will be dead pretty quickly such as Wrestlemania 18.

The crowd was awesome for Wrestlemania 18. It was just dead for HHH vs. Jericho which followed Hogan vs. Rock. Can’t blame them for being drained after an epic encounter.

TNA wouldn't hurt to do a little comedy segment here or there. It gives the crowd a chance to rest and gear up for the next match. The last thing TNA wants is the crowd dead for a main event and if they keep bombarding them with segment after segment and stick to their total non-stop action theme you seem to think they have, then it will happen sooner rather than later.

Comedy yes, I’m always up for a good laugh. They just ran Jarrent cleaning bathrooms and flipping burgers, as well as Foley in etiquette class…so they are going that route slowly. But filler and non-sense along with pointless segments that don’t do anything for anyone? Absolutely not. That is why I don’t watch the WWE now.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You can do better than that.

The crowd was awesome for Wrestlemania 18. It was just dead for HHH vs. Jericho which followed Hogan vs. Rock. Can’t blame them for being drained after an epic encounter.

Comedy yes, I’m always up for a good laugh. They just ran Jarrent cleaning bathrooms and flipping burgers, as well as Foley in etiquette class…so they are going that route slowly. But filler and non-sense along with pointless segments that don’t do anything for anyone? Absolutely not. That is why I don’t watch the WWE now.

That's exactly what I'm talking about when dealing with Wrestlemania 18. The crowd would have been better if they would have put in filler match between Rock/Hogan and HHH/Jericho. They have tried to better a job of that recently but the problem still persists.

The WWE may have pointless segments but they know to use their less featured talent in a small capacity. Guys like Swagger, Santino, and Kofi may not get a lot of air-time the big guys do, but they are featured in some shape or fashion. The roster in TNA is too full so you have wrestlers who you haven't seen in two or three months appear and you're like, "Where the hell has this person been?"

That is where the filler and pointless segments can come in for TNA. You can show the less featured wrestlers without the risk of overexposing them so the crowd can get ready for the next big match. Or else you can get main event guys lost in the shuffle and get rarely talked about like Samoa Joe's disappearance.

 

[Suneeboy]

That's exactly what I'm talking about when dealing with Wrestlemania 18. The crowd would have been better if they would have put in filler match between Rock/Hogan and HHH/Jericho. They have tried to better a job of that recently but the problem still persists.

The WWE may have pointless segments but they know to use their less featured talent in a small capacity. Guys like Swagger, Santino, and Kofi may not get a lot of air-time the big guys do, but they are featured in some shape or fashion. The roster in TNA is too full so you have wrestlers who you haven't seen in two or three months appear and you're like, "Where the hell has this person been?"

That is where the filler and pointless segments can come in for TNA. You can show the less featured wrestlers without the risk of overexposing them so the crowd can get ready for the next big match. Or else you can get main event guys lost in the shuffle and get rarely talked about like Samoa Joe's disappearance.

That picture in your signature scared the shit out of me.

Ok, now there is a difference between a promo/segment in between a match, and filler. Filler does nothing for anyone, and is just that "filler" that wastes time. You can easily fast forward through it and literally not miss a thing.

Pointless segments and filler are not needed. If you want to say comedy segments, or more light-hearted segments yes. But what's being discussed is pointless nonsense taking up valuable television time that doesn't develop any characters or feuds. I'm not for it, and it makes for bad television...just take a running log of the WWE forums for the last year to see where I'm coming from.

Val Venis playing strip poker with the beautiful people? Good "down" time. JJ flipping burgers? Good "down" time. Foley in class? Good "down" time. Mick Foley searching for Hogan? Good "down" time. TBP popping champagne after winning the KO Tag Titles? Good "down" time. Santino and Hornswaggle running bad jokes with a guest host? Bad "down" time, and TNA should not try and take a page out of that book. WWE Ratings have plummeted in comparison to where they have been in recent years.

With the watering down of wrestling by the WWE has come the watering down of the fans. Mediocrity is accepted...and it has become accepted to the point that we beg for mediocrity to be put on television because there's just too much great stuff going on at once and we can't even absorb it.

 

[Tenta]

Welcome to Vince Russo booking, Uncle Sam. This is effectively what drove WCW into the ground when he was booking from October to December of 1999; too many things were going on at once. Vince didn't understand that, if you're an audience, you can't have the entire show rammed down your throat for two hours. It seems during every segments of Nitro, and now Impact, that TNA is trying to build three separate segments. Each segment needs its own time to breath, and develop itself; you can't just show five different angles and expect us all to retain what's going on. That, in one word, is nonsensical. It's what causes promoters to feel like they have to make belts props, and why some people feel that the Attitude Era was shit (I'm not one of them, though I do see the argument for why some dislike the Attitude Era.)

TNA would be perfectly fine if it tried to fit only one feud into one segment. The closest the WWE comes to stuffing in too much stuff is usually when it's the guest host segment. And we can all agree that's usually the worst part of Raw. Otherwise, one of the positive things I can say about Raw is that it allows the audience to digest what is being taken in. TNA doesn't do that; it's like if you gave an ADD child some sugar, told them they could jump on the bed, allowed them ice cream for dinner, mixed in a little crack, and then allowed them to book a wrestling program. Angles need fluency, and the audience needs time to digest everything. One thing TNA simply doesn't allow.