And the next chapter in the Martin/Zimmerman story is written

[LSN80]

I know a thread exists regarding the case, but I thought an update was needed here. The latest development in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman saga could be a game changer. Will it change your perception of Zimmerman? Read on.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

In a medical exam that took place a day after the fatal confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman that left Martin dead, Zimmerman's family doctor diagnosed Zimmerman with a broken nose, two black eyes, and two lacerations on the back of his head. Zimmerman, who is being charged with 2nd degree murder in the February 26th shooting of Martin, has pleaded not guilty to the charges, claiming self-defense. This report, released an hour ago, seems to lend credence to Zimmerman's claims that he was attacked by Martin and acted in self-defense, rather then simply profiling Martin racially and killing him accordingly. Said Zimmerman's brother, Robert Jr.:

"We're confident the medical records are going to explain all of George's medical history, You return force with force when somebody assaults you. George was out of breath, he was barely conscious. George (would have been) dead if he had not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment."

It's hard to escape media coverage of this story, as it's one that's not only gripped Florida with regards to racial profiling and gun laws, but the nation as well. But the autopsy report on Martin showed that the young man had injuries consistent with being in a fight, which would seem to lend more credence to the medical report done on Zimmerman. Just Monday, my wife and I ate at a restaurant where a poster hung outside saying "Justice for Trayvon." I'm suggesting nothing, simply asking: In light of this report, is it possible justice was served?

Obviously, the Martin camp doesn't seem to think so, as evidenced by a statement released through their attorney, Benjamin Crump.

The family has very strong positions about this family physician's report that was done the next day,. What we do know is on February 26, the ER personnel did not believe his injuries were significant enough for him to go to the hospital. They didn't even put a Band-Aid on his head. That's important."

I haven't seen or heard mention of the ER report as of yet, but if released, I'll be sure to detail it here. As of now, the stronger evidence seems to back Zimmerman in this case, both through the report from his family doctor, and the autopsy performed on Martin. Zimmerman did state that Martin and he exchanged unpleasantries, Martin rushed him, resulting in Martin knocking Zimmerman to the ground, slamming his head off the sidewalk several times. It was at this time, Zimmerman claims, that he pulled a 9 milimeter gun on Martin, fatally wounding him. However, Martin's camp has a different side of the events. This also from family lawyer Benjamin Crump, in an interview with Anderson Cooper last night:

He was fighting for his life. Let's not forget that Trayvon Martin was fighting a man with a 9-millimeter gun. We also have to remember that he didn't start this fight. George Zimmerman got out his car and pursued Trayvon Martin.

Who started what is certainly in question, but 911 calls made by Zimmerman seem to indicate that he pursued Martin first. After calling 911 about a suspicious person that Zimmerman was following, the dispatcher alledgedly told Zimmerman to cease following Martin, which Zimmerman obviously ignored. This seems to indicate that the entire confrontation could have been avoided, doesn't it?

I'm not sure what to think here. Zimmerman obviously confronted Martin in some way, but it appears Martin was the aggressor following the initial confrontation. But the fact remains to me that Zimmerman should never have put himself or Martin in the situation that he did, so he holds some culpability here. But is this second degree murder, of which Zimmerman is charged?

I implore you to not just read my summary, but to read the story in full as well. I believe the story shows this was an avoidable conflict, but once it became a conflict, Zimmerman was in danger. How much? It's hard to tell. A couple of bumps to the back of the head, two black eyes, and a broken nose could indicate that he truly was in danger for his life. If so, that justifies his use of deadly force under the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida. But what justified Zimmerman's pursuit of Martin that lead to the confrontation? I fail to wrap my head around that. Looking objectively, it seems to me that Zimmerman is at least guilty of racial profiling, and starting a confrontation that shouldn't have been. Zimmerman's actions were a precursor to Martin's, and it saddens me that it came to a young man ending up dead, regardless of why it happened.

Off to you for thoughts.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, it doesn't really change anything to me. Let's think about this.

At the end of the day, it was Zimmerman that went after Martin. Martin was doing nothing wrong (that we know of based on everything said so far) and was walking down the street. It was Zimmerman that didn't listen to the police and went after Martin when he was told to stay where he was. If Zimmerman went after him which apparently he did, then Martin had every right to defend himself. Put yourself in Martin's place: if you're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with and someone comes up to you and is aggressive and possibly yelling and physically touching you, wouldn't you come back swinging? You don't know them, you don't know what they're thinking, you don't know anything but they're coming after you.

At the end of the day, Zimmerman went after Martin and used a gun to defend himself against someone that didn't appear to be a threat to him at all, based on what we know so far. If Zimmerman hadn't gone after him, this never would have happened and Martin wouldn't have had to defend himself. This doesn't change much for me. As for second degree murder, I'm not sure. What I do know though is that if Zimmerman hadn't gone after him, we would never have heard of this story.

 

[Davi323]

Yeah, I agree with KB. George Zimmerman, by going after Trayvon Martin despite being told not to by the 911 dispatcher, is the aggressor, regardless of if Trayvon then turns around and decided to confront him. I don't see this as self-defense. I just can't. If Trayvon had been the aggressor and attacked Zimmerman completely unprovoked, sure. But, I see Zimmerman's chasing of Martin kind of an act of aggression. He was the one seeking a confrontation, Martin wasn't, at least not at first. Zimmerman's actions caused Martin's actions, which caused the shooting, if you follow me.

I agree that Zimmerman was in danger during the fight...but it was a fight that his own actions led up to. I guess it depends on when you consider the first hostile act occurred. If you think that Zimmerman pursuing Martin is not an overtly hostile act, that it was in effect when Martin turned around to confront Zimmerman and fight him, then it could certainly help his case of self defense. If like me, you treat the pursuit itself as a probable hostile act, making Zimmerman the aggressor not Martin, then Martin was the one defending himself.

Zimmerman staying where he was + Trayvon Martin turning around and assaulting him + Zimmerman shooting him = Self defense.

Zimmerman chasing after Martin + Trayvon Martin turning around and assaulting him + Zimmerman shooting him = 2nd degree murder charge.

 

[Death Before Disco]

I'm still up in the air on this unfortunate incident. The obvious question is: Why was Zimmerman pursuing Martin? What made Zimmerman suspicious of Martin? Either Martin was doing something suspicious or he wasn't. Regardless, I agree that, yes, if Zimmerman was told to back off and stop his pursuit, he should have. The fact that Zimmerman disobeyed the order from 911 could lead one to believe that Martin was indeed doing something suspicious, or he was just racially profiling Martin. The facts aren't all in, and I'll be interested to see the ER report and what Zimmerman's doctors have to say.

All in all.... what a shame....

 

[Mustang Sally]

What I do know though is that if Zimmerman hadn't gone after him, we would never have heard of this story.

True, but it's also apparent that if Al Sharpton and the media hadn't made such a huge deal of the white-on-black nature of the incident, we wouldn't have heard of it, either. Although, when I see images of Zimmerman, I wouldn't take him for a white man, would you?

The point is that the case is now in the courts, where it belongs. In that venue, the case will hopefully be tried on motives and events.....rather than the specter of racism. I don't know how neighborhood watch programs are supposed to work, but if Zimmerman went after Martin strictly because Martin was a black man, that's racism. Even if it is, though, the defense attorneys are going to have to keep the direction of the case on track, and that's going to be hard.

Plainly, Zimmerman was advised by the emergency operator not to engage Martin. Whether he did.....and why he did......and how he did.....will (or should) be the thrust of the trial.

I'm sorry the media (and Sharpton) got ahold of this in the first place; it will make it that much harder to see that justice prevails. Would you like to be on the jury that tries this? I wouldn't.

 

[Slyfox696]

If Zimmerman hadn't gone after him, this never would have happened and Martin wouldn't have had to defend himself. This doesn't change much for me. As for second degree murder, I'm not sure. What I do know though is that if Zimmerman hadn't gone after him, we would never have heard of this story.

So then I take it you're okay with Iraq and Afghanistan government soldiers killing American journalists? After all, if we weren't there, it would never happen.

I'm sorry, but there's a level of disconnect with that logic. Ignoring for a moment it was Zimmerman's responsibility as neighborhood watch to keep an eye on the neighborhood, following and advancing on me is no reason for me to assault that person. If it really happened like Zimmerman says, and Martin attacked him simply because he confronted him about being out that late in the neighborhood and bearing a resemblance to people who had been robbing the community, there is no excuse for Martin's actions.

I don't know what happened, but that's the point. I haven't heard enough evidence to take a position, but what I do know is that I don't know. Unlike so many others who took a position opposite of Zimmerman before they knew anything other than "light skinned man kills dark skinned man", I'm going to wait until enough facts come out for me to have an opinion on what did happen and what should happen.

I'm sorry, confronting someone verbally is not an excuse for assault. And if Florida's law says that if Zimmerman feared for his life he can use deadly force, then by law, Zimmerman should go free, if it happened the way Zimmerman claims.

 

[klunderbunker]

So then I take it you're okay with Iraq and Afghanistan government soldiers killing American journalists? After all, if we weren't there, it would never happen.

I'm sorry, but there's a level of disconnect with that logic. Ignoring for a moment it was Zimmerman's responsibility as neighborhood watch to keep an eye on the neighborhood, following and advancing on me is no reason for me to assault that person. If it really happened like Zimmerman says, and Martin attacked him simply because he confronted him about being out that late in the neighborhood and bearing a resemblance to people who had been robbing the community, there is no excuse for Martin's actions.

I don't know what happened, but that's the point. I haven't heard enough evidence to take a position, but what I do know is that I don't know. Unlike so many others who took a position opposite of Zimmerman before they knew anything other than "light skinned man kills dark skinned man", I'm going to wait until enough facts come out for me to have an opinion on what did happen and what should happen.

I'm sorry, confronting someone verbally is not an excuse for assault. And if Florida's law says that if Zimmerman feared for his life he can use deadly force, then by law, Zimmerman should go free, if it happened the way Zimmerman claims.

Isn't that why this is going to court? To try to find out if what Zimmerman claimed is what really happened?

I'm not saying Zimmerman is guilty and deserves to be put in prison etc. The main issue I've had with this since the beginning is that he went free without even being brought in for questioning.

As for the main part of what you said, the point of being a neighborhood watch leader is to call the police correct? Not to be a vigilante. He was instructed not to do something by the people he was answering to (I think he'd answer to them at least. I'm not actually sure if he would or not) and then this happened. Starting something with someone, even verbally, doesn't sound like standing your ground. It sounds like starting something.

 

[shattered dreams]

I have long assumed this case will be like the Duke Lacrosse rape case. Nothing I see here does much to dispel that. Without the publicity I don't think there would have been any chance of this being investigated. As such there is a high chance of being embarrassingly wrong. If there is one thing people have trouble with it is understanding levels of things. Was Zimmerman a saint? No but that doesn't make him a murderer. Even if he was a racist, that in no way proves he was a murderer.