All Time MLB Team

[Megatron]

Over the 100+ years of baseball, baseball has had a rich history. In this history there've been many great players, some who will never leave our minds. In this thread, I would like you to list what would be your all-time team. You don't have to include bench players like I did below, but since there was so many guys I figured they deserved at least an honorable mention. Without further ado, here's my all-time team:

Manager: Joe McCarthy

C - Ivan Rodriguez
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Jackie Robinson
3B - Alex Rodriguez
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Willie Mays
OF - Babe Ruth

Bench: Yogi Berra; Jimmie Foxx; Joe Morgan; Wade Boggs; Honus Wagner; Ted Williams; Ken Griffey, Jr.; Hank Aaron

SP - Cy Young
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Sandy Koufax
SP - Randy Johnson
SP - Walter Johnson
RP - John Smoltz
RP - Bruce Sutter
RP - John Franco
RP - Rollie Fingers
SU - Trevor Hoffman
CL - Mariano Rivera

Adressing the spots, some of them were quite obvious (Ruth, Young, Mays) while others may confuse some people. And for deciding relievers I wanted to stick with guys who were relievers for at least a good time of their career. And Smoltz could be a long inning guy/closer as well, so that's why he's on my team.

Discuss, rip apart, make your own. I'll be ready to defend my choices.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

You have the right manager although you can't go wrong with any of the guys ahead of him in wins(even Connie Mack) Joe McCarthy would be my pick too.

Catcher wise, I go Bench over I-Rod. Pudge can't handle a normal pitching staff, what makes you think he can handle the best of the best?

Firstbase is fine by me, Lou is a great choice, Albert might be overtaking him by the end of his career though.

Second is all wrong. Rogers Horsby is the man for 2nd base. He's a career .358 hitter and his team beat the 1926 Yankees in the W.S. That was one hell of a team.

Thirdbase is Mike Schmidt, he's no A-Rod in terms of hitting but is the best man at third.

Shortstop is Barry Larkin, I had a really hard time not putting down the Wizard of Oz, but his bat isn't good enough to be tops on the list. Larkin isn't the best at anything with the upper echelon of SS, but he's good enough in everything for me to take him over others.

My Outfield looks the same as yours, Mays, Ruth, and Cobb.

The bench is really the hardest part here. I want to start with Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, ect., ect., but the problem is they're all lefty outfielders. We all know that wouldn't work for a bench. So narrowing it down I guess I keep Stan because I want too and he's a great personality to have on a team, it's probably his biggest claim to fame actually. After that I'll keep Bonds, innocent until proven guilty on this one, I guess.

I need some infielders now. I'll take A-Rod, Albert Pujols, Cal Ripken Jr., and Honus Wagner.

My back up catcher is Yogi Berra.

My starting rotation goes Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux. No defining reasons why. Cy Young is the pitcher the award is named after, but he's really not the best pitcher ever. With my rotation I have the cream of the crop that has enough diversity to be a success.

The Bullpen will consist of Mariano Rivera closing, Dennis Eckersley setting up, and Goose Gossage, Rollie Fingers, Bruce Stutter, and Lee Smith making up the rest of my bullpen.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

C - Ivan Rodriguez
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Roberto Alomar
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Alex Rodriguez
OF - Mickey Mantle
OF - Ken Griffey Jr.
OF - Ichiro Suzuki
DH - Babe Ruth

It's interesting that I made a list that didn't include greats like Mays, Bonds and Gherig, but I tried to build a very balanced team, with speed and defense, a good blend of power and guys who can get on base and make the pitcher sweat. Every position player on my team is a multi-time Gold Glove Award winner (sans Mantle who I think had only one).

Lineup -

1. Ichiro Suzuki - (Great speed, .333 lifetime BA)
2. Roberto Alomar - (Threat to steal, posted .400 OBP 5x)
3. Alex Rodriguez - (Has home-run power to any field, tough to double-up)
4. Babe Ruth - (The greatest pure hitter in the history of baseball)
5. Mickey Mantle - (Greatest switch-hitter in history. Ruthian power)
6. Albert Pujols - (Can hit for power, average, and is clutch. Most feared hitter since Bonds)
7. Ken Griffey Jr. - (A sub-.300 average keeps him from the top of the order)
8. Mike Schmidt - (500+ home runs)
9. Ivan Rodriguez - (A prime Pudge hits .315 with 30 homers and a .900 OPS... and he bats ninth on this loaded team.)

SP - Randy Johnson (In my opinion, the greatest pitcher of all time. He was dominant into his 40s.)
SP - Roger Clemans (He's any bit as good as Randy Johnson. Steroids or no, the Rocket's numbers are king.)
SP - Pedro Martinez (His wins won't jump out at you, but Pedro had excellent velocity and command, could throw multiple pitches for strikes.)
SP - Greg Maddux (The best control in baseball history. Also an 18x Gold Glover.)
SP - Sandy Koufax (His prime years were some of the best in baseball history.

CL - Mariano Rivera (The greatest postseason performer ever. Mariano deserves to be called one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history.)

 

[Dhays9]

Here's my shot.

C-Bench (McCann will be there soon I feel)
1B-Lou Gerhig
2B-Roberto Alomar
SS-Barry Larkin
3B-Chipper Jones
OF-Hank Aaron
OF-Willie Mays
OF-Ken Griffey Jr.

SP-Satchel Paige
SP-Greg Maddux
SP-Tom Glavine
SP-Randy Johnson

Bullpen Specialist-John Smoltz
Closer-Mariano Riveria

I know I only have 4 SP but my I feel that the pitchers don't pitch enough these days and the top heavy Braves rotation is due to the fact that all 3 are top tier pitchers and bring the control that every pitcher dreams of.

 

[Megatron]

Catcher wise, I go Bench over I-Rod. Pudge can't handle a normal pitching staff, what makes you think he can handle the best of the best?

Pudge has a better CS% then Bench, has over 800 hits more, has 13 GG, and 300+ HR's. If he plays 2 more years he will get to 3000, and I'm pretty sure he'd have been the only catcher to have done that. And can't handle a normal pitching staff? When Pudge went to Detroit, they went from 5.30 in 03 to 4.93 in 04 to 4.51 in 05 to 3.84 in 06. Granted, their pitchers improved, but Pudge was clearly one of the catalysts to handling that rotation.

Second is all wrong. Rogers Horsby is the man for 2nd base. He's a career .358 hitter and his team beat the 1926 Yankees in the W.S. That was one hell of a team.

The reason I took Jackie was more due to what he had to go through and how well he played even with all of the backlash. And he did miss some of his most prime years and still collected over 1500 hits, a ROTY and MVP, and had a .983 fielding % for his career. While Horsby stats are better, what Jackie suffered and how he responded would make him a great leader to a team.

Thirdbase is Mike Schmidt, he's no A-Rod in terms of hitting but is the best man at third.

While I know A-Rod has only played third for about 7 years, he's been a vastly better hitter, both avg and power wise. A-Rod only had 1 season with more then 15 E's at 3rd, while Schmidt had a few. He'd probably be #3, but even with A-Rod's low amount of years at 3rd he's gotta be it here.

Shortstop is Barry Larkin, I had a really hard time not putting down the Wizard of Oz, but his bat isn't good enough to be tops on the list. Larkin isn't the best at anything with the upper echelon of SS, but he's good enough in everything for me to take him over others.

10 of Larkin's 19 seasons he missed 30 or more games. He never was really durable. Cal, on the otherhand, is the Ironman, was an all-star from his 3rd year to his final year, was a better fielder, and was an overall better offensive player. And Ozzie probably shouldn't be in the top 5, because his hitting totals were weak.

My starting rotation goes Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux. No defining reasons why. Cy Young is the pitcher the award is named after, but he's really not the best pitcher ever. With my rotation I have the cream of the crop that has enough diversity to be a success.

The Bullpen will consist of Mariano Rivera closing, Dennis Eckersley setting up, and Goose Gossage, Rollie Fingers, Bruce Stutter, and Lee Smith making up the rest of my bullpen.

A little irked that Hoffman wasn't included, considering his ERA was lower then Smith, he's the career saves leader (despite me thinking the Save as an overrated stat), has a WHIP of 1.060 compared to Smith's 1.2. During Hoffman's best years he was pretty much unhittable.

And Clemens and Johnson have both been the most dominant pitchers of the past 30 years, surprised they didn't even get a mention.

 

[Slyfox696]

First of all, I want to thank people for this thread, because it made me go back and find Tony LaRussa Baseball 2. That game has classic rosters, and you can even do a Classic player draft that's VERY deep. Awesome game. I used it to make my team.

I'm going to TRY and give some different names, just because it gets tiring seeing the same guys over and over.

1B: Jimmie Foxx - Everyone always talks about Lou Gehrig, but while Gehrig was doing his thing, there was another guy tearing the cover off of the ball, and he didn't even have a Babe Ruth in his lineup (of course, he had Al Simmons and Mickey Cochrane...but that's beside the point). If you look at their numbers, you'll Foxx's number compare quite strongly with Gehrig's.

2B: Roger Hornsby - This may be the only position where there is a clear #1 player. Hornsby was a phenomenal all-around player, but will belong in ANY argument as a best hitter of all-time. He was also a speedy player, and was very good defensively.

SS: Honus Wagner - I'm surprised he's not #1 on everyone's list. It was hard to pass up Maury Wills and his stolen bases here, but Wagner's BA and OBP are just so much better, and he stole quite a few bases himself (723 of them). He also was tremendously good in the field.

3B: Alex Rodriguez - This is kind of cheating since he wasn't a third basement his whole career, but he is now, and when it comes to hitting, there isn't a third basemen out there better.

C: Roy Campanella - A man who started in the Negro Leagues, and had his career cut short by an accident, not many people know much about him. Honestly, I don't either. What I do know is the man was a good hitter and one of the best catchers of his day. People talk about how Ivan Rodriguez is good at catching base stealers, Campanella's numbers are better than Pudge's. He also caught three no-hitters in his short career, apparently, which is noteworthy since catchers called the game back then.

LF: Barry Bonds - Say what you want about steroids, there is no denying that, in pure numbers, he's the best offensive player in the history of the game. Nothing more needs to be said.

CF: Ty Cobb - Believe me, turning down Willie Mays here was NOT easy. But, I have plenty of power hitters, and now I have my leadoff man. Throw in the fact that every good team needs "swagger", as they call it these days, and Cobb brings enough swagger for an entire fucking team.

RF: Vladimir Guerrero - Obviously Ruth and Aaron are the more obvious choices, but I'm going with Guerrero. At his best, Guerrero was as dangerous hitter as they come, a Triple Crown contender, but more importantly, he had a rocket for an arm. I've never seen as many people throw out someone at third base as Vlad has.

DH: Babe Ruth - For those pesky DH rule fans (I hate you), my DH is Babe Ruth. Do I really need to explain?

My Lineup Card:

1. Ty Cobb CF
2. Honus Wagner SS
3. Barry Bonds LF
4. Babe Ruth DH
5. Jimmie Foxx 1B
6. Roger Hornsby 2B
7. Alex Rodriguez 3B
8. Roy Campanella C
9. Vladimir Guerrero RF

I'm tired, so I'm not going to do Relief Pitchers, but I will name 5 Starters, but in no particular order:

1. Bob Kibson
2. Sandy Koufax
3. Greg Maddux
4. Walter Johnson
5. Christy Mathewson


Manager: Bobby Cox - Why? Because he's a legend, and I play favorites. Deal with it.



If I get the inclination, I'll come back and do backups and stuff later. This is good for now.

 

[JenksIX]

C Mike Piazza
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Chipper Jones
LF Ted Williams
CF Willy Mays
RF Mickey Mantle

SP Walter Johnson
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Cy Young
SP Greg Maddux
SP Sandy Koufax
CL Mariano Rivera
DH Babe Ruth

I believe I constructed a very solid team. As for best ever, who knows. Pedor Martinez might have been the best pitcher ever when you judge the era he was pitching in, and the 2 best seasons he ever pitched.

I didn't have Clemons on the list, because I will always put Maddux above Clemens. Maddux threw the ball with nothing on it and still won 350+ games because he was a master craftsmen.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I am absolutely shocked that only one person has mentioned Ted Williams. Williams missed multiple years in his prime and still posted a .344 lifetime BA, had 2,600 hits, 521 home runs, a .482 OBP and a 1.116 OPS in 19 seasons! Those numbers are ridiculous, out of your mind crazy. His numbers absolutely kill those of Mays in all categories outside of power. Just sayin'. I'd take him over both Griffey and Ichiro, and possibly Mantle, but Yankees are my 1A and Mariners my 1B.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Wow, everyone of you left Tony Gwynn off your teams. Perhaps the second greatest lefty hitter behind Ted Williams.

While I think Gwynn deserves to make the starting lineup, he definitely deserves to be on each and everyone of your benches. I'm not going to list the numbers for one of the all time greats to ever play the game (though perhaps I should, as it seems many of you are clueless as to just how good Gwynn was.)

Tony Gwynn without a doubt deserves a spot on any all time MLB team, and I'll just give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume you'all just forgot about one of the games greatest hitters.

 

[Megatron]

Tony was a great hitter, no doubt, but there's no way in hell anyone can put him over Cobb, Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Aaron. Griffey probably as well, considering in his prime years (his run in Seattle) he was far and away the best player. And since I was only including 3 other backups, Gwynn just didn't cut it. Would he make my Top 10, I'd say I'm 80% sure he would, definately top 20. However, it's tough to put him over guys like Williams, Ruth, Mays, Cobb, and Aaron because they're the top echelon of hitters ever. Gwynn is great, don't get me wrong, but I find it tough to put him over those guys.

What should probably be more surprising is that the all time hit king has only gotten one mention. Disappointed in myself for not including him, actually.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I was gonna rant about Pete Rose too, but Gwynn hits a little closer to home.

As for Gwynn, power isn't the only measurable variable for a great outfielder, your also going to want a variation of different players, just choosing a bunch of power guys isn't always going to make a great team.

While guys like Ty Cobb are all time greats, I just don't know how he would hold up against the greatest pitchers of our time. He played a very long time ago, a time before we had any recognizable pitchers. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to make the team, but Gwynn played in an era dominated by pitching, and he also plyed in an era dominated by hitting, and nothing affected this mans hitting abilities. He was also a Gold Glover, and was more than capable of stealing 20+ bags in his prime.

 

[Megatron]

I know power isn't the only means of measuring a great OF, but many of the guys I listed were 5 tool players. Griffey, Mays, and Williams for sure. Cobb didn't have much power, but had over 4000 hits. And Babe Ruth is Babe fucking Ruth. And Aaron does have over 3700 hits and 755 HR's, so it would be awfully tough to put Gwynn over any of those guys.

 

[Slyfox696]

I didn't have Clemons on the list, because I will always put Maddux above Clemens. Maddux threw the ball with nothing on it and still won 350+ games because he was a master craftsmen.

This is just plain false. When Maddux came into the Bigs, he could chuck the ball to the plate at 94 MPH. However, he learned that throwing hard was much less important than throwing intelligently. So he took a little off the fastball, became a location pitcher with a ball that never went straight.

But to say he threw the ball with nothing on it is just plain false. Not only could he throw it hard when he wanted, the pitches he did throw had a TON of stuff on it, and none of it was straight.

I am absolutely shocked that only one person has mentioned Ted Williams. Williams missed multiple years in his prime and still posted a .344 lifetime BA, had 2,600 hits, 521 home runs, a .482 OBP and a 1.116 OPS in 19 seasons! Those numbers are ridiculous, out of your mind crazy. His numbers absolutely kill those of Mays in all categories outside of power. Just sayin'. I'd take him over both Griffey and Ichiro, and possibly Mantle, but Yankees are my 1A and Mariners my 1B.

Williams was obviously a great player, but my outfield just didn't have room for him. I needed a leadoff hitter in Cobb, I had the greatest offensive player in history with Bonds, and I think Vladimir in his prime is as dangerous of a hitter as anyone, but with a lot better speed and is a better fielder with a better arm. I have all the offense any team would ever need, so I think Vlad just fits well. Plus I wanted to go with someone different that people wouldn't think of.

Wow, everyone of you left Tony Gwynn off your teams. Perhaps the second greatest lefty hitter behind Ted Williams.

While I think Gwynn deserves to make the starting lineup, he definitely deserves to be on each and everyone of your benches. I'm not going to list the numbers for one of the all time greats to ever play the game (though perhaps I should, as it seems many of you are clueless as to just how good Gwynn was.)

Tony Gwynn without a doubt deserves a spot on any all time MLB team, and I'll just give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume you'all just forgot about one of the games greatest hitters.

Forget about him? No, I just wanted someone better, and fortunately, there's no shortage of players.

What should probably be more surprising is that the all time hit king has only gotten one mention. Disappointed in myself for not including him, actually.

Same goes for Pete Rose.

I have a leadoff hitter, and two guys who can hit in the #2 slot I feel are better all-around players than Gwynn and Rose, and just as good of hitters. Hitters 3-6 should be guys who hit for power and drive in runs, which removes Gynn and Rose. I have to have a catcher, so Gwynn and Rose are out again. Alex Rodriguez may go down as the HR king, so Gwynn and Rose are out again. So basically, that just leaves Vlad, and I've explained that already.

As for Gwynn, power isn't the only measurable variable for a great outfielder, your also going to want a variation of different players, just choosing a bunch of power guys isn't always going to make a great team.

While guys like Ty Cobb are all time greats, I just don't know how he would hold up against the greatest pitchers of our time. He played a very long time ago, a time before we had any recognizable pitchers. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to make the team, but Gwynn played in an era dominated by pitching, and he also plyed in an era dominated by hitting, and nothing affected this mans hitting abilities. He was also a Gold Glover, and was more than capable of stealing 20+ bags in his prime.

A guy like Ty Cobb consistently hit near .400, when players took trains, and their bodies ached every day without the ability to rest or take suitable medicine to recover. Cobb hit near .400 in a time where the strike zone was an actual strike zone and pitchers weren't afraid to throw inside.

Can you imagine what Ty Cobb could do with today's hitting technology, with the ability to have video tape on pitchers, with the comforts of modern travel, current day supplements and a strike zone half the size it should be, with pitchers who don't throw inside? It'd be insane.

We could play the "era game" all day long.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Forget about him? No, I just wanted someone better, and fortunately, there's no shortage of players.

You picked Vlad Guerrero over Gwynn, now while there's a good chance that Vlad will make the hall of fame when all is said in done there is no way he's better than Gwynn.

Gwynn in his prime > Vlad in his prime. Gwynn is the only player to sniff a .400 season since it was last done by Ted Williams, and if it wasn't for the strike shortened season he could have done it, but we'll never know.

I'm just saying Gwynn deserves more respect than he's getting in this thread, especially when Vlad Guerrero is being picked over Gwynn.

 

[Slyfox696]

You picked Vlad Guerrero over Gwynn, now while there's a good chance that Vlad will make the hall of fame when all is said in done there is no way he's better than Gwynn.

Gwynn in his prime > Vlad in his prime. Gwynn is the only player to sniff a .400 season since it was last done by Ted Williams, and if it wasn't for the strike shortened season he could have done it, but we'll never know.

I'm just saying Gwynn deserves more respect than he's getting in this thread, especially when Vlad Guerrero is being picked over Gwynn.

Vlad had 12 straight years of a + .300 AVG, 11 straight years of 20+ HR, he stole 77 bases in 2001 and 2002, and had over 100 RBI's in 9 out of 10 years in his prime. His OBP is almost exactly the same as Gwynn's, (.383 vs. .388), his slugging pct. is roughly one hundred points higher, and his OPS puts Gwynn's to shame.

Gwynn was obviously a great player, but to say there is no way Vlad is better than Gwynn is just silly.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Here's my two cents worth (probably all it's worth):

Starting Pitchers

Roger Clemens
Sandy Koufax
Randy Johnson
Cy Young
Greg Maddux

Relief Pitchers

John Smoltz
Tom Seaver
Fernando Valenzuela
Dave Stieb
Dennis Eckersley
Tom Glavine

Closer

Mariano Rivera

Catcher (First and Second Choice, respectively)

Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza

First base

Pete Rose, Albert Pujols

Second Base

Roberto Alomar, Joe Morgan

Shortstop

Cal Ripken Jr., Derek Jeter

Third Base

Mike Schmidt, Alex Rodriguez

Left Field

Ted Williams, Barry Bonds

Centre Field

Ken Griffey Jr., Willie Mays

Right Field

Vladimir Guerrero, Tony Gwynn

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Tony Gwynn hit over .300 for 19 straight seasons, he's not even close to being a power hitter, but had 20 plus doubles in 15 straight seasons. From 86-87 Gwynn had 90 plus stolen bases. Slugging and OPS both have a lot to do with a players power, but to say Gwynn was put to shame, when it Gwynn's .847 compared to Vlad's .946 it is almost the same difference as their slugging, which again is based on power.

While Vlad had some great seasons, Gwynn managed to have twice as many great seasons as Vlad, but whats the criteria here. Are we basing this off one great year, or are we taking all seasons into account? Either way Gwynn can compete with the best of the best in baseball history.

Plus Gwynn got 532 out of 545 votes, giving him the 7th highest percentage of all time for the Hall of Fame, according to that percentage Gwynn should be a shoe in for making this team.

 

[TwistofRKO]

C- Pudge Rodriguez- Great offensive production, has playoff experience is good enough reason already, yet alone his defensive ability.

1B- Lou Gehrig- Very close to choosing Pujols, but Gehrig was just as consistent. Only downside is average fielding.

2B- Robbie Alomar- No question in my mind. Best fielding 2B of this era, by FAR. Offensive production, and can steal bases. That's on the ingredient list for winning baseball.

SS- Derek Jeter- A-Rod is a close second, but Jeter is a pure winner. The epitome of clutch, its hard to leave Jeter off the list.

3B- Chipper Jones- Switch-hitter, again, winner. Sense a theme? Plus he's my favorite player of all-time.

LF- Barry Bonds- I'd still take him based on his career up until 2000. Great fielder, lots of power, and stole bases.

CF- Ken Griffey Jr- Extremely close between him and Mays. I favor Griffey's left handed bat, and in his prime, he was the perfect CF. Edmonds and Andruw Jones are up there as well.

RF- Babe Ruth. Really. Vlad would be a definite 2nd, Clemente is in that discussion, but its Babe. Ruth.

DH- Ted Williams- Greatest pure hitter ever. Not a great fielder, but he earns a role on my team. Manny would be my next choice here.

Bench- C, Brad Ausmus - IF, Omar Vizquel - OF, Reggie Sanders

Starting Pitchers
1. Pedro Martinez
2. Randy Johnson
3. Greg Maddux
4. Tom Glavine
5. Bob Feller

Closer, RP
Closer- Mariano Rivera
SU- Joe Nathan
SU- John Smoltz
SU- Billy Wagner
LR- Randy Myers

Manager- Bobby Cox

 

[Slyfox696]

Tony Gwynn hit over .300 for 19 straight seasons

That's great, Vlad hasn't even played 19 seasons, but with the exception of the last two seasons (in which he hit .295 with injuries, and is currently hitting .297.) Vlad has hit .300 in every season. And while I know Gwynn did the same, the point here was not to prove Guerrero as better than Gwynn, but rather debunk your theory there's no way to say Vlad is as good as Gwynn.

Which I've done.

he's not even close to being a power hitter, but had 20 plus doubles in 15 straight seasons.

And, with the exception of his injury plagued year last year, Vlad has done it every single season, including this one.

What's your point?

From 86-87 Gwynn had 90 plus stolen bases.

So, we're saying, again, they're roughly even?

Slugging and OPS both have a lot to do with a players power, but to say Gwynn was put to shame, when it Gwynn's .847 compared to Vlad's .946 it is almost the same difference as their slugging, which again is based on power.

So, let me see if I have this straight. They're both regularly hit .300 or better, both regularly hit 20 doubles or more a year, they can steal roughly the same amount of bases, and Vlad has two or three times more power than Gwynn does, and has already driven in 300 more RBI's than Gwynn in 5 fewer seasons.

Why again would I take Gwynn over Vladimir Guerrero?

While Vlad had some great seasons, Gwynn managed to have twice as many great seasons as Vlad, but whats the criteria here.

He did?

Since Guerrero become a regular starter, he's hit .300 every year, more than 20 doubles every year, and except for last year, hit 20 HR and averages more than 100 RBI a year, in 14 seasons.

How can Gwynn have twice as many great seasons as Vlad, when Vlad's been a regular for 14 seasons and has had a great year all 14 years?

Are we basing this off one great year, or are we taking all seasons into account? Either way Gwynn can compete with the best of the best in baseball history.

As can Guerrero. But unlike Gwynn, Guerrero can also hit the long ball and drive in runs.

What advantage does Gwynn have over Guerrero?

Plus Gwynn got 532 out of 545 votes, giving him the 7th highest percentage of all time for the Hall of Fame

So? What difference does that make to my baseball team?

according to that percentage Gwynn should be a shoe in for making this team.

Uhh, except I don't need another base hit guy, I have several already. And when Gwynn doesn't get on base anymore than Vlad, and Vlad KILLS him in Slugging and OPS...what advantage is there to having Gwynn?

I have Cobb at the top of my lineup and Wagner batting second, two guys who are just as good in batting average and on-base percentage as Gwynn. After that (not counting Guerrero), I have a combined 3,157 career HR. Why in the world do I need Gwynn, when Vlad is almost as good, with a lot more power?

That doesn't make sense.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I need Gwynn, when Vlad is almost as good, with a lot more power?

I'm just making a case for Gwynn.

Clearly as you pointed out you don't need anymore power on your team, so another on base guy would probably make more sense, especially seeing that you admit Gwynn is the better overall player (with less power).

I was just making a general case for Tony Gwynn, seeing that not one person chose to not just have him on their team, but he didn't even make it as a bench player on anyone's team. I didn't even bring up his five gold gloves and seven silver slugger awards.

As for your selected team.

Tony in the nine hole make way more sense than Vlad does, and since your not lacking any power it makes more sense to have an on base guy to turn the lineup around, and seeing that Gwynn is more of an on base guy, with better speed and defense in his prime (though I'll give Vlad the arm) it just makes more sense.

Again, only two outfielders in baseball history have garnered a higher percentage of votes than Tony Gwynn, those two being Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gwynnto01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/musiast01.shtml


You think Tony Gwynn was overlooked? How the hell am I the only one that listed Stan the Man? None of you even have him on your bench. This is ridiculous. Especially when a back up catcher is Brad fucking Ausmus and outfielders named Reggie Sanders and Vlad Guerrero. I'm not just saying this because I'm a blind Cardinals fan, this man is one of the GOATs and I'm the only one to list him.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm just making a case for Gwynn.

Clearly as you pointed out you don't need anymore power on your team, so another on base guy would probably make more sense, especially seeing that you admit Gwynn is the better overall player (with less power).

I was just making a general case for Tony Gwynn, seeing that not one person chose to not just have him on their team, but he didn't even make it as a bench player on anyone's team. I didn't even bring up his five gold gloves and seven silver slugger awards.

As for your selected team.

Tony in the nine hole make way more sense than Vlad does, and since your not lacking any power it makes more sense to have an on base guy to turn the lineup around, and seeing that Gwynn is more of an on base guy, with better speed and defense in his prime (though I'll give Vlad the arm) it just makes more sense.

Again, only two outfielders in baseball history have garnered a higher percentage of votes than Tony Gwynn, those two being Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron.

The problem with your post is that Gwynn is NOT an on-base guy, not more than Vlad. When it comes to on-base percentage, they're almost exactly the same. How can Gwynn make more sense in the 9 spot when he doesn't get on more than Vlad, and doesn't have near the run production Vlad has, which will be important since the guys hitting in front of Vlad are great hitters as well. As far as Gwynn's seven Silver Slugger awards, Vladimir Guerrero has seven as well, so that's a moot point.

The only advantage Gwynn would have over Vladimir would be defense, but Vlad is a solid in right field, and let's face it...we're talking about right field, which is probably the least important fielding position in the outfield, as long as you have a great arm. Which Vladimir Guerrero does.

There's simply no advantage to Gwynn over Guerrero, and certainly not in my lineup. He's not a better on-base guy, he drives in fewer runs, and he's not nearly the HR threat. That's fine if you wish to make a case for Gwynn to be on an all-time great team, just don't tell me that Vlad isn't as good as Gwynn, and "Gwynn deserves more respect than he's getting in this thread, especially when Vlad Guerrero is being picked over Gwynn." because the fact of the matter is Vlad over Gwynn makes a lot more sense than Gwynn over Vlad, especially in a lineup like mine.

By the way, I was going to send this about 2 and a half hours ago, but my Internet crapped out. NOT happy about that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gwynnto01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/musiast01.shtml


You think Tony Gwynn was overlooked? How the hell am I the only one that listed Stan the Man? None of you even have him on your bench. This is ridiculous. Especially when a back up catcher is Brad fucking Ausmus and outfielders named Reggie Sanders and Vlad Guerrero. I'm not just saying this because I'm a blind Cardinals fan, this man is one of the GOATs and I'm the only one to list him.

I don't get it, what's with all of the Vladimir Guerrero hate? Since when has a .330 hitter with 30 HR and 100+ RBI been considered a bad thing? I just don't get it.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

I don't get it, what's with all of the Vladimir Guerrero hate? Since when has a .330 hitter with 30 HR and 100+ RBI been considered a bad thing? I just don't get it.

Not hate really, just the absence of a better player should be noted.

Vlad's career average is .319 Stan's is .331 through more seasons.

Vlad struck out an average of 76 times per season, Stan never struck out more than 50 times ever.

Vlad hit 11 triples in one year, that was his highest total, Stan lead the league 5 times.

Stan is just a better play than Vlad, they're comparable in some aspects, but Musial is a better choice for a corner outfielder.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not hate really, just the absence of a better player should be noted.

Vlad's career average is .319 Stan's is .331 through more seasons.

Vlad struck out an average of 76 times per season, Stan never struck out more than 50 times ever.

Vlad hit 11 triples in one year, that was his highest total, Stan lead the league 5 times.

Stan is just a better play than Vlad, they're comparable in some aspects, but Musial is a better choice for a corner outfielder.

They're comparable in a lot of the important aspects, but more importantly, Musial wasn't a career RF like Vlad has been. Musial played left and he played a lot of first base. Furthermore, did you really just use TRIPLES as a stat category? I'm sorry, doubles is a fair stat, and I'm sure Musial had more than Vlad, but triples is not a good stat.

Musial was a great player, and I did think about him (as well as others), but I consider more as a first basemen than an outfielder, and I already had a first basemen.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

They're comparable in a lot of the important aspects, but more importantly, Musial wasn't a career RF like Vlad has been. Musial played left and he played a lot of first base. Furthermore, did you really just use TRIPLES as a stat category? I'm sorry, doubles is a fair stat, and I'm sure Musial had more than Vlad, but triples is not a good stat.

Musial was a great player, and I did think about him (as well as others), but I consider more as a first basement than an outfielder, and I already had a first basemen.

You're right on the Stan being a LF not a RF, actually he's usually ranked either 1st or 2nd in the LF debate. This is why I'm annoyed at some of the choices like Vlad and a few others with no mentions of Musial. Doubles is close, Musial averaged a few more through his career. It's not a dig at Vlad, but zero mentions for Stan shouldn't be a reality in this debate. Not even a bench player? Really?