Alien 3 vs. Alien Resurrection

[Uncle Sam]

Becca never did an Alien franchise thread, did she? Eh, she might've done. I don't remember it though. Anyway, Alien won the movie tournament even though Aliens is better. The thing that bothered me the most was you guys taking a collective shit on David Fincher. Most people appreciate Fight Club, Se7en and Zodiac in some way. Mention of Alien 3 normally kicks off cries of "My eyes! My beautiful eyes!" and the sort. Most recently, I've seen people say that Alien Resurrection was better. So, I must ask the following question: what the fuck?

Obviously, it's not. Alien 3 is criminally underrated. I hear the Director's Cut is actually pretty decent - though I can't recall if I've seen it. I've definitely got it on DVD (Quadrilogy isn't even a word!). It has atmosphere, gore and a decent enough - if not different enough - concept. It's not a bad film. I'd say it's better than most, even.

Alien Resurrection, on the other hand, is possibly the worst thing I've ever seen - up there with Superman Returns and all that shit. It's structured incredibly poorly, the special effects are stupid, the concept is stupid, the execution is stupid. It's just stupid. Not even fun stupid. It's stupid like a kid with learning difficulties crushing your cat with a frying pan - hard to watch, doesn't make much sense and making you wonder why nobody stopped him.

 

[Shocky]

Alien 3 was seen as bad because it wasn't Aliens, that's pretty much my feeling on that. When Alien Resurrection came out, it showed actually how good Alien 3 was, and how terrible Resurrection was. It's my feelings on Jurassic Park. The first was phenomenal, but the second one was just the worst thing ever. When Jurassic Park 3 came out, it made the Lost World look Like Jurassic Park.

Alien 3 is criminally under rated. I think the storyline is pretty good, but what kills this movie is simply, the excessive foul language. I remember losing count and it's something pretty ridiculous. You can only say fuck so many times before it becomes just obnoxious. Aliens had cussing, and maybe an excessive amount, but Alien 3 completely blew it out of the water.

Let's not forget either, Fox royally screwed the pooch on this movie. Fox couldn't keep their hands out of it, and didn't let Fincher produce his own version of the movie. This left a huge rift, that even ten years later when the Quadrilogy came out, he refused to provide commentary on Alien 3. I say he's still a tad bit pissed off.

The Director's cut is an improvement, but the problem is, the Director's cut is unfinished, and it shows pretty badly. I look past those glares and admire the movie itself. They really explore the virtual unknown of these movies, that the aliens are telepathic, and can read your minds. When the Alien is let out of lock down, it's fantastic. Plus the scene at the end with Bishop is a thousand times better.

Alien Resurrection is a primary example of why the French should never be considered for their art, unless the word shit is associated with it.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

but what kills this movie is simply, the excessive foul language. I remember losing count and it's something pretty ridiculous. You can only say fuck so many times before it becomes just obnoxious. Aliens had cussing, and maybe an excessive amount, but Alien 3 completely blew it out of the water.

Pfft, Americans. Notice that most of the cast are British. This is the way we live. It adds realism to a film that has an alien, and a woman not getting raped by lots of murderous rapists.

Problem one: It followed a kick ass action film. Going from big guns to spoons is never going to work.

Problem two: It's a remake of Alien, but not as good.

A wooden planet would have made it appear better.

 

[Shocky]

I have no problem with the cussing myself, but I know a lot of people that were turned off too it. We're weird here on this side of the pond, we can handle violence and language, and probably a good amount of it, but then there is that line that you aren't sure where it is, but it gets crossed, and then it begins to detract from the film. Hostel is an example of that in the violence range. The movie was just pure shit to begin with, but then it relied too much on gore, which just made it too stupid.

I try to understandt hat it is indeed a prison, and prisoners, like marines, do indeed cuss. Hell, look at half of my post, you'll find most of them laced with some sort of profanity, mild or otherwise. The main problem is that the first two Alien movies follow people that you can relate with in the first one, or people you respect in the second one. Most people that go to the movies, are blue collar workers that work hard, and can relate to a crew out in the middle of nowhere trying to get home, then something awful happens. Likewise with Aliens. People, for the most part, respect the military and are drawn to it.

You enter the third Alien movie, and ripley is suddenly dropped off in the middle of Alcatraz, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for all of the evil rapist and murderes getting pulled into a tunnel and slaughtered, not really. Part of me wants to root for the alien, which you don't get that feeling at all in the first two movies. Given that they use that as a plot point with the Company not giving a shit about the prisoners, and thef act that I am unhealthily (sp?) addicted to the Alien movies, I understand, but Average Joe movie goer can give a shit. Alien 3 isn't liked, because people don't like prisoners.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I have no problem with the cussing myself, but I know a lot of people that were turned off too it. We're weird here on this side of the pond, we can handle violence and language, and probably a good amount of it, but then there is that line that you aren't sure where it is, but it gets crossed, and then it begins to detract from the film.

Have you seen The Big Lebowski? Either way, I'd swear a lot if I thought I was gonna die. A whole lot.

Hostel is an example of that in the violence range. The movie was just pure shit to begin with, but then it relied too much on gore, which just made it too stupid.

Hostel didn't have enough gore IMO. It wasn't commonplace enough, considering that what did happen happened to obnoxious tourists and thus I don't give a shit.

Most people that go to the movies, are blue collar workers that work hard, and can relate to a crew out in the middle of nowhere trying to get home, then something awful happens. Likewise with Aliens. People, for the most part, respect the military and are drawn to it.

It's a common misconception that you have to like or respect characters for a movie to be good. Characters you despise are just as good, unless you try and get pity for them. Alien 3 doesn't try and get pity for the prisoners, at least the less savoury ones.

You enter the third Alien movie, and ripley is suddenly dropped off in the middle of Alcatraz, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for all of the evil rapist and murderes getting pulled into a tunnel and slaughtered,

I don't think you are. It's meant to make the alien seem more imposing with all the tough prisoners bricking themselves over it.

Part of me wants to root for the alien, which you don't get that feeling at all in the first two movies.

Then it's different, original. Celebration time.

Given that they use that as a plot point with the Company not giving a shit about the prisoners, and thef act that I am unhealthily (sp?) addicted to the Alien movies, I understand, but Average Joe movie goer can give a shit. Alien 3 isn't liked, because people don't like prisoners.

They're definitely more likeable than the ***** in the fourth one. And you're supposed to like them.

 

[ExtremeSwagga93]

Alien Resurrection was obviously worst than Alien 3 because the movie simply just shouldn't have happened. Alien 3 should have ended the series, if you look at it it would have been perfect, Ripley dies, but is nonetheless successful in destroying the Aliens and keeping them out of the evil corporation's hands. Plus the Dog-Alien was awesome. Alien Resurrection added nothing to the series whatsoever and the human alien thing was just plain weird. Neither Alien 3 or Alien Resurrction were as good as Alien and Aliens though

I hate too much gore and too much cursing in my movies. (though it may sound like I'm contradicting myself because I am talking about the Alien movie here) I never watched any SAW movies anything like that because mindless gorefests aren't my thing. In horror gore doesn't = scary imo.

 

[Kasey]

I like both films about equally. Especially considering I know what each film started out being, and what they ended up becoming after the ********s on the Fox lot put their two cents in. Fincher did extremely well given the visual limitations of the time (bad CGI?) and all of the immense changes the story went through. Visually, the film was astounding. The atmosphere and urgency was on-point. The scripting was pretty simple, but effective nonetheless and Charles S. Dutton's performance stole the show. Plus, Giger's re-design of the Alien worked wonders for the type of story they were trying to tell (plus it just looked really fucking cool). I think if the film were done as-is, but with the Alien's CGI replaced with what could be done today that it would be received a lot better. But as I've said with a bunch of other genre pics with subpar FX: It's very difficult to get lost in a story when you can only think about the lame-ass visuals you're suffering through. A lot of what killed the buzz on the film was that it was originally supposed to be an action spectacle that landed on Earth, thereby having the shit hit the fan in a way no one had seen. Well, that was until the Fox execs ran budget projections.

Resurrection was pretty much in the same boat. Jeunet is a competent director and Joss Whedon is a fucking amazing writer. However, the studio-forced rewrites killed the ending of the film and basically neutered ninety minutes of momentum that the script would've been building. The script itself was to be the redemption of the franchise until Rothman and his crew decided to nix the full-scale battle between humans and Aliens that was supposed to play out on Earth. There is a reason Whedon was the hottest writer in Hollywood in those days. His spec script for this film turned MANY fucking heads. Rightly so. As far as what ended up on film, Jeunet even went on record with his obvious happiness just to be directing it. Pretty sad when a director is a puppet who won't stick to his own guns creatively. Because even when that happens, they usually have to kowtow to some demands.

I still like both movies, but I do think that they could've been exponentially better if they would've stuck to what the original concepts were. It's a sad day when Dark Horse Comics does a better job at continuing Ripley's adventures post-Aliens than the fucking studio who produced the films in the first goddamn place.