3 Super Mario 64 -v- 31 Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
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Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
Good Lord.
2 of the best games ever to grace the N64 console makes this a damn near impossible decision but i have to go with the game that I personally had more fun with and that was Zelda.
I enjoyed Mario but every once in a while I found myself unable to advance in the game and I would get pissed and want to chuck the controller through my mother's TV but I never got that with M.M.
Both games deserve to go through but I'm hoping It's Zelda
2 of the best games ever to grace the N64 console makes this a damn near impossible decision but i have to go with the game that I personally had more fun with and that was Zelda.
I enjoyed Mario but every once in a while I found myself unable to advance in the game and I would get pissed and want to chuck the controller through my mother's TV but I never got that with M.M.
Both games deserve to go through but I'm hoping It's Zelda
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
Went with Mario. Only because of the appeal of the game. It isn't complicated (anyone can move a stick around and press A). The graphics are nice and colorful. And you don't need to devote time out of your schedule to play it for a little bit.
Serious Jones
start wearin' purple for me now
I played Super Mario 64 for hours and hours and hours as a kid, and you probably did, too. But here's why you should vote Majora's Mask.
Super Mario 64 is a really fun game. That's all it is, though. A princess gets kidnapped, you jump on things and collect things and throw a big ol' monster into a landmine a few times. It's tons of fun, but it's just a game, and it's nothing we haven't seen plenty of times before and afterwards.
First of all, Majora's Mask was an innovation and a risk. We hadn't seen a game like this before, especially with an already acclaimed, yet formulaic series like Zelda. Ocarina of Time was (and still is) considered one of the greatest, most perfect games of all time, and instead of rehashing and making a similar sequel, the developers turned everything on its head and somehow made "perfect" more compelling. The detractors that say "The timed system is stupid!" or whatever other silly complaints they may have either didn't go into the game with an open mind, or didn't actually pay attention to what they were doing. Majora's Mask is everything Ocarina of Time was and more. It just suffers from sequel syndrome, where it's compared to its predecessor instead of being looked at objectively. And Majora's Mask has a bit of a "learning curve", so to speak. While the gameplay is functionally similar, it takes a bit of time to get used to the time system and really learn to appreciate and get engulfed into what you're doing.
This is where it really becomes more than a game. "But Mistah Jones! It's just a series of tubes!" Shut up and listen, kid. When everyone was up in arms over Roger Ebert saying that video games can't be art, it was clear that he didn't play this game. The story presented in Majora's Mask couldn't be a movie. It couldn't be a novel. The interactive nature is necessary. You're the one in charge of these people's lives, and everyone's lives are remarkably fleshed out. It's not just "I have to save all these people that are going to die oh dear!!!" There are people that are in denial about dying, there are people that are openly terrified, and there are people that put up a facade of courage, only to break down when actually confronted with their fate. And none of these people are integral to the plot. Each one of them is just one of dozens of people, all different, all very "real".
And the game is just overflowing with little touches and details that really put it over the top. Every time I play, I notice something new, and it's not your ordinary easter eggs either. There are rather trivial things, like putting together who Tingle's father is, and there are absolutely crushing things, like finally realizing the fate of the Chekhov's Gun-esque Deku Butler's son. Another plus for all the touches is the possibility for personal interpretation, and, yes, fan theories. I've read theories about the Happy Mask Salesman being God, Termina being a dream, the final tower being an elaborate allegory of story of Babylon, and tons of others. And here's the thing; they all make sense. There are things in the game with no other explanation. The actual base story of the game makes no direct mention of several notable things.
To put it in ~deep~ terms, this game is an essay on the human condition. There's genuine philosophical questions in this game, and like many philosophical questions, there's no real answer. You're exposed to ordinary people who have to face extraordinary circumstances, and we can watch to see how they react, and we are also given the choice to save them from whatever plight they may be facing. There's love, fear, and death all over this game. For a kid's game, it's resonant on a pretty profound level.
Oh, and it's really fun. If you enjoyed the gameplay in the oft-praised Ocarina of Time, you have no reason not to love the gameplay here even more. While Ocarina of Time created a terrific formula, Majora's Mask perfected it. There are more things you can do and the game is more polished, simply put. I could go on and on about how the music is unparalleled or how the dark undertone of the game is seen everywhere, but I don't think I need to go on.
But I know, I know, racing a large penguin down a slide is a much better game.
Super Mario 64 is a really fun game. That's all it is, though. A princess gets kidnapped, you jump on things and collect things and throw a big ol' monster into a landmine a few times. It's tons of fun, but it's just a game, and it's nothing we haven't seen plenty of times before and afterwards.
First of all, Majora's Mask was an innovation and a risk. We hadn't seen a game like this before, especially with an already acclaimed, yet formulaic series like Zelda. Ocarina of Time was (and still is) considered one of the greatest, most perfect games of all time, and instead of rehashing and making a similar sequel, the developers turned everything on its head and somehow made "perfect" more compelling. The detractors that say "The timed system is stupid!" or whatever other silly complaints they may have either didn't go into the game with an open mind, or didn't actually pay attention to what they were doing. Majora's Mask is everything Ocarina of Time was and more. It just suffers from sequel syndrome, where it's compared to its predecessor instead of being looked at objectively. And Majora's Mask has a bit of a "learning curve", so to speak. While the gameplay is functionally similar, it takes a bit of time to get used to the time system and really learn to appreciate and get engulfed into what you're doing.
This is where it really becomes more than a game. "But Mistah Jones! It's just a series of tubes!" Shut up and listen, kid. When everyone was up in arms over Roger Ebert saying that video games can't be art, it was clear that he didn't play this game. The story presented in Majora's Mask couldn't be a movie. It couldn't be a novel. The interactive nature is necessary. You're the one in charge of these people's lives, and everyone's lives are remarkably fleshed out. It's not just "I have to save all these people that are going to die oh dear!!!" There are people that are in denial about dying, there are people that are openly terrified, and there are people that put up a facade of courage, only to break down when actually confronted with their fate. And none of these people are integral to the plot. Each one of them is just one of dozens of people, all different, all very "real".
And the game is just overflowing with little touches and details that really put it over the top. Every time I play, I notice something new, and it's not your ordinary easter eggs either. There are rather trivial things, like putting together who Tingle's father is, and there are absolutely crushing things, like finally realizing the fate of the Chekhov's Gun-esque Deku Butler's son. Another plus for all the touches is the possibility for personal interpretation, and, yes, fan theories. I've read theories about the Happy Mask Salesman being God, Termina being a dream, the final tower being an elaborate allegory of story of Babylon, and tons of others. And here's the thing; they all make sense. There are things in the game with no other explanation. The actual base story of the game makes no direct mention of several notable things.
To put it in ~deep~ terms, this game is an essay on the human condition. There's genuine philosophical questions in this game, and like many philosophical questions, there's no real answer. You're exposed to ordinary people who have to face extraordinary circumstances, and we can watch to see how they react, and we are also given the choice to save them from whatever plight they may be facing. There's love, fear, and death all over this game. For a kid's game, it's resonant on a pretty profound level.
Oh, and it's really fun. If you enjoyed the gameplay in the oft-praised Ocarina of Time, you have no reason not to love the gameplay here even more. While Ocarina of Time created a terrific formula, Majora's Mask perfected it. There are more things you can do and the game is more polished, simply put. I could go on and on about how the music is unparalleled or how the dark undertone of the game is seen everywhere, but I don't think I need to go on.
But I know, I know, racing a large penguin down a slide is a much better game.
I think Serious Jones was spot on with his post. Mario saved 3D from being a failure when people still weren't sure was it. Don't think that 3D was the natural evolution from 2D games. Due to the piece of crap known as the original Playstation, people weren't sure about 3D games. All 3D games were getting average reviews and were generally flopping. There was the odd good 3D game every so often, but none that were good enough. 2D was set for another generation of dominance. Then the N64 and Mario 64 came along.
Mario 64 showed that yes, 3D was the future. It held the key to opening the potential of 3D and it did so magnificently. The technological innovation left people in awe. The doubt people had about their beloved Mario stepping into the 3rd dimension were instantly fogotten, and the rest, as they say, is history.
But I don't love video games for the technology of it. The fun of games isn't even what I'm looking for most of all when I play video games. I'm looking for something has a much deeper impact on me. And that is exactly what Majora's Mask is for me. Mario 64 was a groundbreaking game. Majora's Mask was more than a game.
I have so many great memories of Mario 64. The giant eel scaring the shit out of me. Finally beating koopa in the second race. Back-flipping through paintings just cause I could. All those memories make me smile. But that's all they do. They don't evoke the mixture of emotions that MM evoke. The reluctance to trust the Mask seller. The panic every time you got too close to the end of the third day. The joy of helping those two young lovers come together. The fear of looking the moon in the eyes. A true experience.
As much as I love Mario 64, I give my vote to MM.
Mario 64 showed that yes, 3D was the future. It held the key to opening the potential of 3D and it did so magnificently. The technological innovation left people in awe. The doubt people had about their beloved Mario stepping into the 3rd dimension were instantly fogotten, and the rest, as they say, is history.
But I don't love video games for the technology of it. The fun of games isn't even what I'm looking for most of all when I play video games. I'm looking for something has a much deeper impact on me. And that is exactly what Majora's Mask is for me. Mario 64 was a groundbreaking game. Majora's Mask was more than a game.
I have so many great memories of Mario 64. The giant eel scaring the shit out of me. Finally beating koopa in the second race. Back-flipping through paintings just cause I could. All those memories make me smile. But that's all they do. They don't evoke the mixture of emotions that MM evoke. The reluctance to trust the Mask seller. The panic every time you got too close to the end of the third day. The joy of helping those two young lovers come together. The fear of looking the moon in the eyes. A true experience.
As much as I love Mario 64, I give my vote to MM.
This is tough.
Super Mario 64 was one of my fave games on the N64, I remember growing up being SO pissed that I had 119 stars, knowing there was 1 more, and I had no idea where. Turns out it was one of the easiest stars in the game to earn, as long as you knew where it was.
Majora's Mask was also insanly fun, and I LOVED the concept of going back in time and repeating the exact same events, time after time, right down to who was where at what time. I always tried to chase that masked kid into his house before he got there, never worked though.
This match could fairly go either way, but I'm going to vote for Super Mario 64 for one reason. OoT is definatly going far in this tourny, and if it comes up against SM64, it's a fair match. If it goes up against MM, it's a squash. I want competition, so I'm voting for SM64.
Super Mario 64 was one of my fave games on the N64, I remember growing up being SO pissed that I had 119 stars, knowing there was 1 more, and I had no idea where. Turns out it was one of the easiest stars in the game to earn, as long as you knew where it was.
Majora's Mask was also insanly fun, and I LOVED the concept of going back in time and repeating the exact same events, time after time, right down to who was where at what time. I always tried to chase that masked kid into his house before he got there, never worked though.
This match could fairly go either way, but I'm going to vote for Super Mario 64 for one reason. OoT is definatly going far in this tourny, and if it comes up against SM64, it's a fair match. If it goes up against MM, it's a squash. I want competition, so I'm voting for SM64.
Man, I don't know what can be said that hasn't already.
Super Mario 64 was brilliant and revolutionized gaming. It's super fun and the graphics are still colorful and pleasant on the eyes. The level design was spot on and I have so many memories of opening the box and playing the bejeezus out of it at six years old. I still give it a spin from time to time.
That said, Majora's Mask may be one of my favorite games of all time. As mentioned before it is more than a game - it is an experience. The emotions the game can conjure are staggering, from laughter to tears to outright fear. The amount of things there are to do in the game is huge. The game world is populated by tons of NPCs with their own stories and sidequests, and at the end of it all you really feel for each of them. The atmosphere is chilling and captivating. This is a story that showcases the amazing medium that is the videogame, because it could never have been done in any other form.
Majora's Mask also happens to be the most atmospheric game I have ever played. Everything from the sense of urgency brought to life by the three day cycle to the way the bell tolls that signify the end of a day echo across the open field to the mysterious scratches and little details found on the walls across Termina causes the game world to feel alive and to be incredibly immersive. It feels real in its own way, in that one ends up caring about the fate of Termina and its people.
On top of that, the gameplay is great! The dungeons are some of the best in Zelda history. The gameplay was incredibly varied with the three different transformations completely changing your strategy throughout your playthrough. The three-day cycle was unique and pulled off with precision, and the core gameplay is adventurous fun at its very best.
Look, I'm an unashamed Mario mark. I use the song as my ringtone and have for nearly four years, and I am sure to buy every new Mario game when it's released. But innovation cannot defeat perfection. And Majora's Mask is a perfect gaming experience in every way.
Super Mario 64 was brilliant and revolutionized gaming. It's super fun and the graphics are still colorful and pleasant on the eyes. The level design was spot on and I have so many memories of opening the box and playing the bejeezus out of it at six years old. I still give it a spin from time to time.
That said, Majora's Mask may be one of my favorite games of all time. As mentioned before it is more than a game - it is an experience. The emotions the game can conjure are staggering, from laughter to tears to outright fear. The amount of things there are to do in the game is huge. The game world is populated by tons of NPCs with their own stories and sidequests, and at the end of it all you really feel for each of them. The atmosphere is chilling and captivating. This is a story that showcases the amazing medium that is the videogame, because it could never have been done in any other form.
Majora's Mask also happens to be the most atmospheric game I have ever played. Everything from the sense of urgency brought to life by the three day cycle to the way the bell tolls that signify the end of a day echo across the open field to the mysterious scratches and little details found on the walls across Termina causes the game world to feel alive and to be incredibly immersive. It feels real in its own way, in that one ends up caring about the fate of Termina and its people.
On top of that, the gameplay is great! The dungeons are some of the best in Zelda history. The gameplay was incredibly varied with the three different transformations completely changing your strategy throughout your playthrough. The three-day cycle was unique and pulled off with precision, and the core gameplay is adventurous fun at its very best.
Look, I'm an unashamed Mario mark. I use the song as my ringtone and have for nearly four years, and I am sure to buy every new Mario game when it's released. But innovation cannot defeat perfection. And Majora's Mask is a perfect gaming experience in every way.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
Super Mario 64 revolutionized video gaming more-so then any game since, well, Super Mario Bros 1 for NES.
Super Mario 64 was the first console game (especially platformers) to successfully jump make the switch from 2D to 3D. The graphics were the best the system could produce, and it came out at launch. Mario 64 was the driving force behind the success of the N64.
I'm not knocking Majora's Mask. Hell, I would vote for it over most everything else, as it was a worthy successor to Ocarina of Time. But when a great game (that was built off of another games engine) in Majora's Mask faces the most important game of the 90's (which is maybe the best game ever) in Mario 64, it's a no brainer.
Mario 64 wins here.
Super Mario 64 was the first console game (especially platformers) to successfully jump make the switch from 2D to 3D. The graphics were the best the system could produce, and it came out at launch. Mario 64 was the driving force behind the success of the N64.
I'm not knocking Majora's Mask. Hell, I would vote for it over most everything else, as it was a worthy successor to Ocarina of Time. But when a great game (that was built off of another games engine) in Majora's Mask faces the most important game of the 90's (which is maybe the best game ever) in Mario 64, it's a no brainer.
Mario 64 wins here.
Unlike Zelda's recipe of, "Collect assortment of items through defeating themed temples and use them to defeat main villain?". You can make anything sound simple if you break it down into the simplest terms.
Majora's Mask is just a game too, so I don't know where you were going with that comment.
Majora's Mask was noticeably different than Ocarina of Time, agreed.
Saying that the player in Majora's Mask is in charge of people's lives, and that the characters are remarkably fleshed out is an odd comment to make because I wouldn't say that at all. What exactly is Majora? For being a main villain, Majora isn't really fleshed out very much at all. The player is just supposed to accept that the Mask holds an evil spirit and that it must be stopped.
You interact with the NPCs very briefly so it's impossible for you, the player, to really get to know them enough to the point which I would say they are fleshed out characters.
The fact that there are so many theories about the game, and personal interpretations, I would view as a negative. The game doesn't explain very much about the universe it's set within, nor does it flesh out it's characters very well.
What do we really know about the Happy Mask Salesman for instance? There isn't much backstory to him whatsoever, so all we have to go on are the limited interactions that we, the player, have with him. It's easy to shoehorn in a theory where there are multiple unknowns about a character or how they fit within their universe. What would be impressive is if there were many interpretations or plausible theories about a well-detailed and complex character.
You're really stretching here. Majora's Mask is an essay on the human condition? Any theme that the game touches upon, love, fear, death, etc. are all done on the most superficial level that I'm baffled how you view these as being thought-provoking.
Kafei is a character within the game with a love story, between Anju and himself. What is deep or philosophical about the story that is told between these too? The entire extent of what we know about their relationship and characters could be written on a single page.
I'm not necessarily even arguing that Super Mario 64 is a better game, even though I do personally think so. I'm really indifferent towards which game goes through this round. However I wanted to address some of the things you said about Majora's Mask because I think you're being really loose when you describe how great the game is, and I think you're overselling it - especially when you talk about it's deep story or characters.
I hated Majora's Mask, I know that Doc and a few others will disagree, but I am being honest about how I feel when it comes to that game. Super Mario 64 on the other hand, was a fun little game that brought the Mario series into a whole other direction, quite literally. Gone were the days of side scrolling action (well, until New Super Mario Bros a decade later) and the era of Star collecting had begun. Super Mario 64 has my vote because it defined what many other 3D platformers set out to do, and was pretty fun too, unlike Majora's Mask which was a frustrating game.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
Doc is literally holding a gun to my head as I write this. As if I wouldn't have written this anyway.BEN.DROWNED.
THAT.DONE.HAVE.SHOULDN'T.YOU.
Majora's Mask is simply the better game. With SM64, while a great game, you end up playing the same levels over and over again, and it can get tedious after a while. The game gets fun when you're working toward the goal of getting the chance to see something new.that was a mistake
HEDIED
While the same can be said about Majora's Mask, and resetting the clock, I would be inclined to call you a fucking moron who should seriously jump in front of a train because you are breathing the same oxygen as I am, and I just won't tolerate that silliness.
yoooou;;hav3-+_mettT.wiTha______terrible-FATe=haven''''''T*yOU
Majora's Mask incorporates a shit-ton of elements of gameplay, coming down to different forms, different weapons, different dungeons, and one of the most compelling storylines the Zelda franchise has ever seen. The same can't be said for Mario. While "the princess has been captured again!" storyline has it's charm, I'm just not willing to let that win over a storyline with actual imagination and creativity.7.14.11
THAT.DONE.HAVE.SHOULDN'T.YOU.
Majora's Mask is simply the better game. With SM64, while a great game, you end up playing the same levels over and over again, and it can get tedious after a while. The game gets fun when you're working toward the goal of getting the chance to see something new.that was a mistake
HEDIED
While the same can be said about Majora's Mask, and resetting the clock, I would be inclined to call you a fucking moron who should seriously jump in front of a train because you are breathing the same oxygen as I am, and I just won't tolerate that silliness.
yoooou;;hav3-+_mettT.wiTha______terrible-FATe=haven''''''T*yOU
Majora's Mask incorporates a shit-ton of elements of gameplay, coming down to different forms, different weapons, different dungeons, and one of the most compelling storylines the Zelda franchise has ever seen. The same can't be said for Mario. While "the princess has been captured again!" storyline has it's charm, I'm just not willing to let that win over a storyline with actual imagination and creativity.7.14.11
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