WWE wasn’t the only one

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by TakeTheSting, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. TakeTheSting

    TakeTheSting Dark Match Winner

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    I was watching a classic match between Macho man and Ted Dibiasi earlier when Macho man won the title and it got me thinking. We always discuss and complain about how a wrestler from Wcw, tna or any other promotion comes to wwe and just aren’t used right. Names from wcw like Diamond Dallas Page, Sting, Luger to name a few could have been used so much better. It what is rarely spoken of is how bad wcw took some of the greatest wwf/wwe, and ECW wrestlers and did absolutely nothing with them. Here are some that come to my mind;

    Macho man. He was an absolute legend, and household name in wwf. He went to wcw and had a decent run as champ but spent most of his time as a punching bag for the NWO before he later joined them and basically stood in the shadows.

    Ulitimate Warrior. It was Insane how bad he was booked.

    Mr perfect Curt Hennig. Same as warrior. Absolutely one of my all time favorites who was absolutely ruined in wcw.

    Bret Hart. I loved his feud with Sting but other then that all they did with him was beat the Montreal dead horse angle to death.

    Big Bossman. Nothing at all done with him

    Raven: had one of the best wrestling minds and one of the best talkers maybe ever. Should’ve never left ecw because they had no idea how to use him.

    Scott Hall. I know many will see this and say what, but he should’ve been so much more and had a great title main event run. Whether his personal problems were the cause of it or it was the result of booking we’ll never know. I believe to this day if he would’ve stayed in wwe he would have been a major major player as Razor.

    That’s just a few that come to my mind but there’s many many more.
     
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  2. supernatural1981

    supernatural1981 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Your right in what your saying and you could possibly add a few more names to that list but you could also remove a couple from it. How about The British Bulldog? Should of done a lot more in WCW than he did but just never seemed to enjoy being there.

    Ultimate Warrior was past his prime when he went there, they only wanted to see if they could create the same kind Of hype that Wrestlemania 6 did, once the Hogan fued was done there was no reason for him to be there.

    Big Bossman was a slightly different idea, if you go back and watch him in his WWF early years he was just a decent big man who could play a decent face or heel. Never won anything in WWF back then (before his WCW run) but was great teaming with Akeem and also was a top 5 Face in the early 90s. Did WCW drop the ball by not putting him higher up the card? In my opinion no, he was a good guy to beat to get to world title level, sort of like a ziggler nowadays.

    Mr Perfect i do feel bad for, he should of had a world title run in one of the companies but sadly his back injury meant he never was the same after 91.

    I’m sure there are more names people will come up.
     
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  3. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Join WZCW because writing is hip
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    Scott Hall was awesome in WCW when he first got there, the best work of his career.
     
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  4. Wolf Pac

    Wolf Pac Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Some of them were past their prime or injured, which wasn't WCW's fault.

    By 1999, Savage just wasn't the same anymore after coming back from his injury in 98 and Hennig was also injured. They tried to recreate the classics he had with Bret at Summerslam 91 and KOTR 93 by booking them in a third meeting at Uncensored but they didn't deliver.

    Mike Awesome is another big example. Dude was a killer in ECW and a feud against Goldberg could've been epic. But they go and turn him into The Fat Chick Thriller and That 70's Guy.
     
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  5. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Join WZCW because writing is hip
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    When he came back, I should have said. He was The Diamond Studd in WCW before he went to WWF and became famous with Razor Ramone.
     
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  6. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    No doubt. A promoter needs to stay as loyal to their vets as much as possible to keep the locker room. They also can't present their product as inferior to the competition or else you run the risk of alienating your most loyal fans by admitting you're a second tier organization (Hi TNA!). Especially in WCW case. They were a powerhouse in the late nineties and couldn't just have anyone come in and make their talent look bad. Certainly not guys from ECW. That being said I thought they did really well with Raven for a while. Raven's Flock was important and he did hold the US Title.

    But yeah, Mike Awesome deserved better. It always seemed strange that The Outsiders focused so much for so long on being a tag team. Macho just wasn't Macho. I just don't think Warrior was Warrior anymore and WCW got what they could out of him. Bret Hart was just hard to write for and book but they definitely failed there. Henning is a tough one. As much as he is memorable from WWF, he wasn't a WWE Champion. Dibiase kind of came and went.

    This goes to what WWE is doing with their NXT talent today. The guys come up and get some level of a push but generally ultimately have to wait a while to get to their highest level, otherwise it starts to look like NXT is a rival of Raw and SD which would not sit well with established main roster talent and the USA Network.
     
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  7. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    You right about this, you could add Jim Neidhart and Davey boy Smith and Madusa to that list as well. I feel like because they we'Re kinda pressured by Bret to sign Bulldog and Neidhart they went out of their way to not do anything with them since they didn't know what they wanted to do or couldn't care less about Bret.

    As for MAdusa, what a waste, they pretty much brought her in because she had the WWE title belt with her but the problem was that they didn't have a women'S division or title to give her after her debut so they decided to create a title and do a tournament with some of the new japan women's but again instead of giving her the belt and start something fron there, they gave the belt to akira hokuto and she pretty much left for japan with the belt and never came back. Then they pretty much did nothing with her for the rest of her run.

    Out of the list you gave, i have to take 3 names out of them, First of all Raven, raven biggest problem never was is talent, it was that he was outspoken and thought he should have been in a better position then the character deserved to be, that's why he butt head with every promoter he worked with from Heyman to bischoff to Heyman again to Vince. The guys ego was the problem and i fell that he got a pretty decent run in WCW for what the character was.

    Second would be Big Boss man, i fell the fact that he couldn't bring the gimmick with him hurt him in the long run, how can you push a guy when you can'T use the gimmick that got him over in the first place. The guardian angel didn't work, you can go so far with the big bubba gimmick before you hit a celling and him just being him is just plain boring. So for what it was, he got a pretty decent run considering everything.

    Macho man, again i wouldn't put him in this list mostly because while he wasn't as powerful backstage as hogan, he did have a lot of stroke backstage and from some of the story i've heard, he was very difficult to work with at times and would change finish on a dime. Again, he was in the twilight of his career and considering everything, he had a better run that he deserved to have considering his age. So i feel like they used him better then WWE would have used him at that time.

    On a side note, i fell like Scott hall had all the potential in the world but his demon did hurt him in the long run and that's why they didn't push him as a main star in WCW.
     
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  8. FromGlasgow

    FromGlasgow Championship Contender

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    A lot seemed to be missused the main ones who come to mind are the obvious like Guerrero, Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio etc but also other established stars like Bret Hart, Davey Smith and Jim Neidhart were main eventing WWE before they left then in WCW Smith and Neidhart almost became jobbers with Bret's talent completely wasted.

    Mike Awesome's run as ECW champion was incredible then he went to WCW and became almost a joke dressing up as some reject from the 70's.

    Sabu was one of the hottest wrestlers during the early 90's in Japan and ECW and when he came to WCW with the orginal Sheik I had such high hopes only for him to last about 3 or 4 weeks.

    I think WCW in the late 90's had way too much talent, They could not feature everyone all of the time. WCW in fairness wasn't all bad as in this period of time for the one and only time WCW had overtaken the WWE as my favourite wrestling company and with the monday night wars it was probably the best time ever to be a wrestling fan.
     
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  9. TakeTheSting

    TakeTheSting Dark Match Winner

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    One man I thought neither company used right was Big Show. Yea at first in wcw he was an unstoppable force but then they gave up on him. Then he went to wwe and the same thing. For awhile dominant, then a sideshow. He should’ve been booed as an unstoppable force. He’s made a decent career for himself in wwe and I love him as an actor but I always think he could’ve been so much more.
     
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  10. LibSuperstar

    LibSuperstar Occasional Pre-Show

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    Yeah I'm surprised he wasn't booked more dominantly.
     
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  11. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    As has been implied; WCW wasn't very good at knowing what to do once they acquired a certain talent.

    One kind of ironic thing I remember about Bret Hart's WCW run. Bret was a guest on the NBC talk show Later, and they showed a clip of a spot he did where he kayfabe quit after pinning Goldberg. Bret smugly repeated something that Vince had said, which was "If WCW got Bret Hart, they wouldn't know what to do with Bret Hart." He apparently believed that the angle would eventually be successful.
     
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  12. Goldie

    Goldie Getting Noticed By Management

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    Bret Hart was given the 2nd highest paid contact in WCW after Hogan... and then put him in the midcard- challenging for the secondary US title. What a waste?
    It took 2 years to win the world title- but his career was quickly over with afterwards.

    Savage won 4 world titles in WCW so I wouldnt say he was underused... though he was in his mid 40s and past his prime.

    Warrior was past his prime too- brought in to he could return the job to Hogan after WM6. They paid him a million dollars for only a few weeks work.

    Curt Hennig was a great wrestler but he too was about 40 when he signed for WCW. there were so many older established stars on the roster it was difficult for him to crack the main event scene.... though his back injury in 1991 meant it wasn't quite the same Curt

    Boss man was a career midcarder.

    Raven might have been used better- but he was a big fish in a small ECW pond. In wcw he was a small fish in a big pond.
     
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  13. sMark

    sMark Getting Noticed By Management

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    I always (well, since 2003) was thinking this about wasted Bret's possibilities in WCW:
    - WCW had Bret under their contract since december 1997
    - in january 1998 they started Thunder
    - they had LARGE roster with many talents never making it on TV for more than 1-2 minutes for months.
    - Sting had his feud with Hogan, where they both thought they are the world champion

    with all of that in mind, why not make a Draft. Nitro should have Hogan & nWo as their top dogs, Thunder Sting & Bret. People will watch both, because these guys were BIG at the time, so this way WCW could develop new stars, with current main eventers having their TV time, and maybe separate the lockerroom rival "bands" from each other.
    I know, Vince invented draft in 2002 only, but if it was done in 1998, maybe Wars could go longer and with more memorable stuff and matches from both sides.
     
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  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Championship Contender

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    Ridiculous premise.

    1) Randy Savage: Was pushed as one of WCW's top stars. He and Flair's feud from 95 through 96 was the major drawing feud of WCW. He had a brief stint as the foil to the nWo, but certainly wasn't a punching bag, before joining them and becoming a focal point of the group.

    2) Curt Hennig: Came in with a mega push. Ruined him? That was the most interesting he had been in years. The feud with Flair and the Horsemen was golden. His only reason for a lack of push as the late 90s wore on was that he couldn't stay healthy.

    3) Ultimate Warrior: Must be a joke. Guy came in and was given superstar push up to his match with Hogan and then was let go. Why? Because the match was god awful and he was god awful.

    4) Bossman: Again, were you watching WCW? He joined WCW in 1994 and was put into a major role with the company. He had a great series of matches with Vader and then had good stuff with Sting. In a similar vein, he got hurt in 96 and again in 97 and those injuries totally derailed him. When he came back in 97 he was given a good push but the fans didn't care about him.

    5) Raven: Given a serious push in WCW but was never going to be a main eventer in a major promotion with his drug issues. Not sure what you wanted them to do about that.
     
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  15. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Hindsight is 20/20.

    Macho Man was made to look amazing when he left the WWF for WCW. He won World War 3, and had an epic feud with Ric Flair that cast a shadow over any Hogan vs Flair feud.

    Ultimate Warrior was likely the one driving the crazy bus his career was on. It's odd that it sold him short of his potential by putting him into a feud with Hollywood Hogan, but that's what I remember. The One Warrior Nation thing was nifty, but it didn't endear him past his disastrous match with Hogan. I personally wouldn't blame WCW for how a past his prime Ultimate Warrior failed to get over on a new generation of fans.

    Curt Hennig wasn't really pushed like he should have been, but he had some absolutely stellar matches while working for WCW. I remember his tag-team with Ric Flair was making typically abysmal performers looking amazing for working with them. WCW could have done more with him, but I wouldn't call what they did with him a bad thing.

    Bret Hart was a main eventer coming into a world that was inundated with main eventers. Angry fans eventually sleep off their rage and develop more substantial problems to occupy their mind. There's also the theory that Hogan deliberately politicked to have the ref make a legit three count during his match with Sting, thus undermining Bret for claiming that it was a fast count. Bret really didn't get his due, but he was given a streak of 4-0 against Goldberg. I believe that there were some individuals in the back who wanted to see Bret Hart shine in some way.

    Big Bossman didn't have "nothing" done with him. When he came back as "The Boss" he was given a title shot against Rick Rude, and was made to look amazing during that feud. He joined the nWo, and was later kicked out and granted the opportunity to give the greatest promo of his career. Have a look:

    [YOUTUBE]drcC-EcRYN8[/YOUTUBE]

    Raven was given a decent push for his level of popularity at the time. He was allowed to come out on top in feuds against Diamond Dallas Page and Chris Benoit. He also got to enjoy the same type of appeal that Daniel Bryan enjoyed when, as a heel tag team with Saturn, he was being cheered against the intended continuity of the storylines. Raven and Saturn became tag team champions for the same reason that Booker T and Goldust became tag team champions, the fans loved them so much that it simply had to happen and it was allowed to happen.

    Scott Hall was Scott Hall. He was given a win at World War 3, and he had a tsunami of fanfare to support anything he attempted to do. I think that if he had really wanted a world championship run, he would have had it. His personal demons aside, I honestly believe that Scott was perfectly content being able to work a ridiculously light schedule and get paid like a main eventer.
     
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  16. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

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    lol Macho had a great run down south I dunno what you guys are smoking, far better than being put out to pasture had he stayed in the WWF thats for sure.

    Curt Hennings nWo turn was great at the time for me but in retrospect id have had him stay Horseman for sure, even though he got the US title he was lost in the shuffle on the black n white side.

    Madusa mustve felt like an IDIOT for tossing the women's belt into the trash because absolutely nothing was done with her afterwards.

    Mike Awesome was a true waste but that happened under Russos watch

    Scott Halls lack of a main event push was his own fault

    Raven did great at the level he was at he just needed that one fraud with a main venter to cement his spot but that never came

    not enough can be said abut how much WCW fucked up Bret Hart. Next

    and Giant was used way better by WCW than he ever was in WWF; at least in WCW he was always treated as a huge threat, WWF turned him into a punchline after his first cpl weeks in the company and he stayed a joke ever since.
     
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  17. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    With the guys listed there are reasons why all happened as they did.

    Randy Savage: Remember he was signed by WCW at a time he had been "inactive" for much of the year previously and considered no longer able to go by Vince. While he did manage to put on some good matches in WCW, he HAD clearly lost two steps and this only worsened as time went on. That he was still in the ring at all by the late 90's was a bad thing... WCW didn't sign Savage to be a top star or worker... they signed him to prove they COULD sign the two most famous names in the business at the time.

    Ultimate Warrior - He had creative control and so did Hogan... trying to do business with Warrior would have been like pulling teeth, so whatever WCW did with him was either HIS idea, or Hogans... take from that all you need to know.

    Mr. Perfect & Rick Martel- You could say both were underused in the WWF as they had been AWA World Champion, Both ended up mid carders and the latter didn't even get the IC title, when he would have been just as valid a candidate as Hennig and arguably should have had it ahead of The Mountie, even if it was to put someone over like Piper or Razor. This was a lot to do with the AWA title being a "lesser" title in the eyes of the WWF, which then was long gone by the time both went to WCW.

    Hennig is often touted as a guy who "shoulda" won a World title...but he already had, it just wasn't a WWF or WCW one, and that doesn't mean he should ever have...the AWA title is as valid as the TNA one is today but by the time his singles career had begun to take off, his back was wrecked and he didn't have the Austin style gimmick that could make up for the reduced performance in the ring.

    Hennig also had a very checkered reputation as a businessman by the time he got to WCW. There were issues with Lloyds of London over his insurance/retirement and this had impacted WWE shows to the point he was booked for Survivor Series on Razor's team and had to be replaced with Savage rather than risk his payments stopping... This with it being unclear how bad his problem actually was meant that it was hard to put too much of a push behind him.

    Vince had twice and it had been forced to end. It's no coincidence that once Lloyds stopped paying out, Curt worked far more regularly and reliably for WCW and later Vince again... he was relatively well used considering all those factors, especially getting a US title run and in 2002 perhaps COULD have gotten that World title in WWE had he not screwed it up on the plane ride from hell... he was definitely being used correctly at the time, as a veteran main event level guy.

    Martel was similar, Vince had lined up a great push for him but he chose to stay home and (rightly) care for his sick wife... which cost him future runs in the WWF... WCW were using him as TV champ when he got hurt... so in his case it just "never panned out" rather than anything he did "wrong" but Martel could have been used much better after HIS AWA World title run.

    Big Bossman: A lot of the confusion stems from how big Bubba was in the NWA before he went to Vince...but he was also still relatively green at the time so he was pushed well, but not to the top... he was fed to Hogan and Savage as part of the Twin Towers then built as a face... to be fair that role could have lasted for years had he not left for WCW... but Bubba/The Guardian Angel/The Boss/Ray Traylor was used correctly in WCW, a "big name/face" star who legitimised the Hogan era there. He was arguably used better than Brutus, John Tenta, Barbarian and Honky Tonk Man... perhaps only Meng was used more effectively at the time, to the point where you would wonder why Vince didn't use him better.

    Raven: He was never going to main event in either WCW or WWE and he knew it... He had been Scotty Flamingo and Johnny Polo and the fans KNEW it... this was before a cruiserweight like Rey or Bryan could legit win the top prize and before WCW threw their title under the bus with Arquette. WCW used him better than WWE did, but at the same time he had monster ego issue by the time he got back to WWE and REALLY didn't fit what they wanted in a main eventer... that he was used at all by them means he was used effectively.

    I hear a lot about his "mind for wrestling" but that is all to often seemingly used to describe guys who should have done more with their talent but either couldn't get over, couldn't control their backstage vices or are simply overrated largely by themselves with others too polite to pull them up on it... Raven and certainly Jake would fall into that category... Indeed, Jake perhaps deserves mention even more with his WCW run in 92, done correctly, and had he been in proper shape, a feud with Rick Rude could have taken WCW to the pinnacle... but Jake was a shell and only there cos Vince wouldn't put up with his crap anymore.

    Scott Hall - Did WCW misuse him? No, it's impossible for them to have as he had final say over every move he made there. He spent a lot of time tagging with Nash cos it was easy work for them... their team mannerisms and spots as The Outsiders/NWO meant they didn't have to do much for their massive contracts, Hey Yo, SOS Spot, Pinfall, Too Sweet... Go get loaded. That was the extent of what was required, so why do more? WCW WERE going with him as a solo guy when he won WW3 that first time, but by then his demons were in control - see the above.

    None of those guys you could say were truly misused.

    Here are some who were:-

    Davey Boy: Not in the latter run, but his 1993 run... the feud with Vader was white hot and the match where he powerslammed Vader so hard on the outside where he couldn't get up got rave reviews... but by then WCW had wind that Hogan was interested and on the way potentially so they seemed to give up on Davey... likewise, when he returned to the WWE, he was badly misused until his heel turn. There might have been an element of "punishment" for ballsing up his previous run with the roid issue, but even then it seemed to go on a little too long, well over a year.

    Dean Douglas: Again, Shane reaped what he sowed because of the way he left the WWF, claiming he was returning to Med School when he then signed for WCW. He also suffered for being the guy first planned to have the HBK gimmick, something Shawn wasn't going to let go while he was "the guy" there. All told they misused Douglas terribly in 1995, to the point where it seems a very expensive rib on him rather than a legit attempt to use him.

    Jeff Jarrett: Jarrett was misused the opposite way when he returned to WCW... he was pushed way above his station. That guy had no business near a world title at all, Austin was correct on that.

    Diamond Dallas Page: To this day I will NEVER understand the Stalker angle... when they quickly went to "Positively Page"... The irony is of all these people and bad gimmicks, that was the one that actually worked... not for the WWE but for Page himself. That "Positive" gimmick IS DDP today and he's made millions...for himself from it. Without that Stalker angle, that could have been money in Vince's pocket...
     
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