WWE Royal Rumble: WWE Universal Championship - Brock (c) VS Braun VS Kane

Discussion in 'WWE Pay Per Views' started by Jack-Hammer, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Da Prophet

    Da Prophet Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Biggest reactions, check. Top merch seller, check. Good wrestler, check.

    He's clearly at the top. Reigns is excellent inside the wrestling ring. His talking is his weakest point but Reigns said five words after Mania in a fifteen minute segment and got a louder reaction than anyone has in years. That's top guy stuff.

    And, it's not real. There is no best. It's a made up sporting league. The best is whoever the audience responds to, sells merch, draws rating and Vince McMahon decides is the best.

    :lmao:

    Bullshit.

    This isn't true. Dean Ambrose has never received a bigger response than Roman Reigns. Find me footage of this. Get me two instances, one of Reigns and one of Ambrose, from the same time period where Ambrose gets a bigger reaction than Reigns.

    The two biggest stars fight for the biggest belt. That's how combat sports work. It's been done for over a hundred years.

    If you take the title off Brock, it'll kill the title belt at Mania. Guess what, Lesnar/Reigns is your main event. What a way to kill the credibility of the Universal Title for it to not main event to Lesnar/Reigns while they fight over no belt.

    What you're arguing is that the WWE should make their biggest match, two years in the making, less important by removing the World Title. Instead of heaving a potential dual clash of champions, title vs. title, never seen before, history in the making, it should just be two dudes fighting over nothing? Wow, thank goodness you're not running this company. Again, it's clear you have no idea of marketing to an audience.

    So you'd sacrifice the main event of WrestleMania, the biggest PPV of the year, for Summerslam (not the biggest PPV of the year)? Yeah, that makes total sense.

    :lmao:

    Because in the history of the WWE, someone refusing to do something Vince asks them has worked out with them doing well like Lesnar has. This is such a dumb statement, mate.

    He does give. He shows up when he is required. I don't know how you're blaming Brock when he literally an employee of a company. He doesn't get to defend the belt when he wants. It's not an actual title belt. It's fake. Vince decides. You're acting like this is real and Brock is holding the belt hostage like it's MMA.

    So, you completely missed the point. You're in a minority which means as a business, who cares what you think? If I make ice-cream and 10 people love chocolate ice-cream but 2 people hate it and want strawberry instead, I'm not going to stop making chocolate ice-cream.

    Complain all you want but Lesnar/Reigns are the two biggest stars in wrestling. That's your main event for Mania and it's for the belt. Any other decision would be stupid. Based on the measurable metrics available, that's the match to make. Not by who you think is the best wrestler because they can do flips or because you think Brock is lazy, by the measurable factors we have, Lesnar/Reigns is the biggest match WWE can make.

    He will because it's the main event of WrestleMania. Again, it's not that hard to comprehend. It would be the same if anyone else was in that situation.

    Again, Ambrose was never as recognized as Roman Reigns. He might've got more cheers but the volume of response was far less.

    If people can't get over while Reigns is pushed as the top guy, that's their own fault. AJ Styles lost twice to Reigns on PPV and became one of the biggest stars in the WWE. Your point is flawed. AJ did it, he thrived working with Reigns and became a bigger star because of Reigns. Rollins became a bigger face by working with Reigns. Reigns has helped more people than he has hurt.
     
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  2. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Braun Strowman Vs. Triple H is fine, I guess. Let's see how it goes.

    I don't agree that Brock Lesnar has made Universal Championship special. If anything, it's the opposite. PPV is a special event for me. And the top Championship being defended makes it special. From Raw. Or Smackdown. Universal Championship is no special for me anymore.

    Also, about Braun Strowman, I can agree to disagree.
     
    #27
  3. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    I can agree to disagree about if lesnar made the universal championship special or not. Personally, I couldn't care less if the universal championship is defended on the brand only ppv because They're pretty much glorified version of raw anyway so for me They're just a way to advance the story going into the big four. So I'm o.k if the title is only defended on the big four ppv because they are the important show in my eyes. If the title is defended on the b level show, it's o.k but not necessary. I look at Owens title reigns as an example, did it make a difference in the number of people getting the network that the champion was defended on Every show? No I didn't, did it make the title feel like a big deal? No I didn't. So I rather see a championship match that make sense on a big show instead of a forced title match that mean nothing on Every show since you're just going to do the rematch at the next ppv anyway,

    As for strowman, I think the guy got unlimited potential as a big monster main evented but if you push him too quickly, you're their going to get a backlash from a section of the fans that he's getting push to quickly. Let's not forget that he's only been in this business for 2 and a half years and he got all the time to grow and become a mainstay instead of just a flash in the pan.

    I don't know if you we're watching wrestling in the late 80's but I'm going to use the ultimate warrior as an example. Warrior came in in 1987 and started to get super over in 88, so much so that they change plans and gave him the ic title at summerslam 88. Which lead us to mania 5, the big match that they we're building for a year was savage vs Hogan for the title. Warrior was getting as loud of a reaction as Hogan was by 89, if we look at you're logic, they should have scrap everything to hotshot warrior into the mania main event because he was the hottest thing at the time. If they would have done that, it would have killed warrior's momentum as a top guy.

    Another example I can give you is ryback, look how ryback was over when he started out in wwe. He was this unstoppable killer that couldn't be beating. They decided to rush his ascension to the top of the roster and all the momentum the guy had just evaporate because he got rush into a position that he wasn't ready to be put in. Strowman is like that, the guy is unlimited potential but at the reigns level yet we're he can perform at a main event level every night. He will get there soon but he need to continue getting the rub from veteran like Kane and HHH that will protect him and teach him how to be a monster and perform at that level every time.

    So this match will be another learning experience for strowman while being protected by 2 veteran that can perform at the main event level.
     
    #28
  4. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    I know you pretty much hate Reigns and Lesnar, I get that and I can understand that, but you know as well as I do that Lesnar vs. Reigns at WrestleMania will be a money match. C'mon, don't let personal dislike cause you to ignore something that you know deep down inside is the truth. Lesnar matches do draw and Roman Reigns gets a huge response; whether Reigns is cheered as a babyface or booed as a heel, he gets people's attention and keeps their interests by consistently putting on good matches. Many, including myself, went into Lesnar vs. Reigns I with very low hopes and it turned out to be a pretty damn good match, the live crowd was eating it up as the match was highly physical and had a great deal of drama to it.

    Lesnar vs. Reigns II is a match that I'm not really looking forward to not because I don't think it'll be a great match, I actually think it will if it's along the lines of their first go around, it's because this is a match Vince has pushed so hard for at the expense of a lot of the rest of the roster. I know you want to build up your top guys, but I'm someone who's just kind of over the whole human juggernaut, alpha male, chest slappin', dick swingin' bullshit that Vince McMahon absolutely ADORES and can't get enough of. To me, it's so blatantly one dimensional 80s and I'd rather see guys with character and personality about them that's more than just "I'm a bad muthafucka with big ol' muscles."
     
    #29
  5. Spencesc11

    Spencesc11 Getting Noticed By Management

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    What if WWE did this....

    Stroman pins Kane to become Universal Champion

    Lesnar enters Rumble at #30 but is eliminated by Reigns. Lesnar then distracts Reigns allowing Cena to win the Rumble!!!

    Wrestlemania (Raw Side)
    Braun Stroman vs. John Cena (Universal Title)
    Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar (Cage Match)

    I think if the Reigns-Lesnar match isn't for the Title then Roman would have a better chance not to get booed out of the building if he wins.
     
    #30
  6. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Pulling for Braun, but Reigns VS Lesnar II is pretty much set in stone at this point. It's clear the plan is to have Reigns dethrone Lesnar, conquering the conqueror, and we all know what's coming at Wrestlemania. The match isn't official yet, but everything basically leads back to Reigns, with Lesnar racking up one impressive and victory after another, but Reigns rises to the occasion to beat Lesnar at Mania.

    I want to have high hopes for this, a battle of the behemoths between three monsters, but Strowman VS Lesnar at No Mercy was a dud, and it's clear Kane is just here to take the pinfall. I'm just hoping Braun gets something out of this, and I'm guessing they'll go with the formula, where Braun and Kane realize they'll have to work together to take Lesnar out before turning on each other halfway through the match.
     
    #31
  7. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Biggest Cheers? Best Wrestler? Best on mic? Because that's how he's presented. When he's not the best.

    A single promo in all these years. Excellent in the ring? I don't agree. He's obviously good but not excellent.

    The bolded part is the biggest problem. I'm here to be entertained. Not forcibly be with someone who Vince says to. It's his company. Yeah. But I am here not to see

    Go back to when Ambrose was the lackey with Roman Reigns. Bunch if examples. He was easily more over. He's obviously better than Reigns on mic.

    But I don't think that they are the biggest.

    What credibility? A champion who rarely shows up? 3 defenses in 9 months?

    Yeah. I have no idea. You do have. But I do know that I don't have interest in this so-called biggest match.

    No. I didn't sacrifice. All I did was to tell what will interest me. Just putting forward an opinion.

    May be dumb. But I don't really know what's up with Vince and Brock. But if I'm Brock, I will show up more. I'm the champion. Not just anyone.

    For me, it is.

    Cool. Don't stop. If I love Strawberry and I actually do, I will obviously keep my opinion. That's what I'm doing. But I ain't saying that Chocolate sucks. I'm just saying that Strawberry is better for me.

    Again. Not for me. So, I won't watch. Simple. You should.

    He will even if it's on any Raw. Because it's Roman Reigns.

    Because he was Dean Ambrose. Not Roman Reigns. We all know who Vince loves.

    AJ Styles wasn't made by Roman Reigns. The feud with John Cena made him a star. And he still is a star. On mic. In ring. Unlike Roman Reigns. Losing to Reigns didn't make him. Defeating Cena did. My point is still flawed. Roman Reigns has yet to help someone. Because he needs help himself. Those promo battles with Cena proved if he's the best or not.

    No, I don't hate Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns. Hate is a word too strong for me. But what I hate is that both of them are presented and booked as invincible. When they are not. I'm not just interested in seeing Roman Reigns defeat Brock Lesnar. So, I won't see the match. That's all. Both are obviously good enough. But superman booking. Sorry.
     
    #32
  8. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    personally i don't care what you like and what don't like, That's your choice, if you not fan of reigns vs lesnar at mania then it alright. The thing that bugs me is when you says that reigns as been booked to be invincible. How is been booked to be invincible. He lost more matches this year then pretty much any main event talent on the roster in 2017. If it wasn't for Roman reigns, we wouldn't even been talking about strowman in the title picture or even about giving him the belt because it's his feud with Roman reigns that made strowman the main event star he is right now.

    The fact is reigns hasn't been book to be superman in a while now and even if he did, I could say this for pretty much the entire babyface side of the main event level talents on both brand. As far as lesnar is concern, how many ppv did he miss, he moss the first 3 after mania which we're that important any way and miss TLC, outside of that, he was on Every ppv in match that felt special because they weren't rematches and felt special.

    I don't mind seeing the champion defend on Every ppv, but give me a title match that feel special not just a title match for the sake of having a title match. With the current state of both brand, they only have a handful of main event stars that they can put in title matches and That's why we have multiple title matches with the same guys which makes them less special. Lesnar title reigns was a breath of fresh air because every title matches felt important. If he was defending the title every months like you wanted, we would have gotten multiple titles defense against Samoa Joe which would have killed any momentum Joe had, then we would have jump to multiple title matches with strowman which would have killed strowman and then they might have went to either Finn or Rollins which would have killed them as well and would have kill the drawing power of lesnar as well. What I'm saying is by keeping the title off tv for a while, it keep the title fresh and they didn't have to go to the same crappy multiple title shot booking they always go for. If they we're enough money making guy that could be credible for a ppv caliber title main event then I would have said, o.k go for it have lesnar defend every months but sadly They're not and the proof that They're not is this match at the rumble we're they have to put Kane in a title match in 2017.

    So you might be in the minority that don't see how business work and that they think should revolve around what you like and That's you opinion and I respect that at the same time, wwe is exist to make money, not to please the vocal minority so lesnar is a big draw and works as champion even if you don't like it, reigns is the biggest draw they have on raw even if you don't like it so why not put the 2 biggest draws on the brand against each other in a match that fans will actually be really excited to see on the biggest show of the year for the championship, instead of putting the title on somebody that nobody outside fans that watch all year knows in a nothing title match buried in the middle of the card at mania.
     
    #33
  9. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Well, it's cool if you don't care for what I care about or don't. I have no problem with it. Your call, it is.

    Roman Reigns is built invincible. Since long. 4 AAs by Cena or 3/4 F5s by Brock Lesnar. If that's not invincible, what is? It just needs a single spear. To end his match. I like him for sure. But I can't believe that he's the best. Because he isn't.

    And for PPVs. Same point again. I want it to be a special event. Not like Raw. Your Top Champion should appear. At any cost. I would rather prefer Kevin Owens as the champion then. Multiple matches with Samoa Joe? Then why keep the title on Brock Lesnar for a year?

    Business shouldn't revolve around me. Yeah. But I watch to be entertained. Not like be interested in this match because it's the best. Nopes. I have no interest in that. You have it. It's good for you. Being interested isn't bad either. Being not interested isn't bad either.

    I won't watch just because you think that it's the biggest match. I won't watch because I'm not interested. Opinions can vary.
     
    #34
  10. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    Anyway, let's just says some fans love the different way they have booked the championship and some fans don't it's o.k, wwe is booking for all type of fans. Me, personally, I rather see a title match that mean something then a meaningless match just because the have to put a championship match on the ppv. That's why I never liked the Kevin Owens universal title reign, because all his title defenses felt forced and repetitive to the point that the championship didn't fell special anymore. At less with lesnar, everytimes he showed up to either defend the title or just wrestled, it felt special and fresh. While this match is just a holdover match, it's still fell like a big match because it's something that hasn't been done to death already. That why nobody is able to get over as champion anymore, because they are forced to do multiple title match with the same opponent over and over again. I would love to see more world champions being booked like lesnar we're they are booked only on big ppv and big live event so that he not overexposed like all the other wrestlers on the roster and the title actually means something.
     
    #35
  11. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Didn't really get why Braun never came out when Kane and Brock Lesnar fought with each other. The build has been good, I guess. The builds to all Lesnar matches have been good since he won Universal Championship. And then the match doesn't really hold up the hype. Except for that fatal four way match at Summerslam. Because that match had some unexpected feeling with it. That just may be Brock loses. Plus, Brock had a long match. That's special.

    I still hope that Braun Strowman wins the title.
     
    #36
  12. adam

    adam Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I'm hoping for Strowman winning at the Rumble with the WM main event being a triple threat with Roman and Brock. Have Heyman turn on Lesnar and help a heel Roman Reigns win the Universal belt.
     
    #37
  13. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    Pretty inevitable that it is going to be Lesnar vs Reigns for the Universal Title as the WM Main Event.

    That means Strowman vs Kane vs Lesnar should still be a pretty good, hard-hitting, memorable match. I can't imagine it being a super short one or really boring.

    Outcome is pretty predictable as Lesnar likely pins Kane. For me, a question remains if Strowman is not able to save the match/win the match because he is taken out with some big move by Kane or Lesnar OR if there is interference that causes him to be out of it and sets up his next feud.

    Clearly, Vince has been building Reigns and Lesnar as juggernauts on a collision course for a long time and can't wait to have Reigns defeat Lesnar at WM (maybe even with the IC title and become a dual champion).

    Strowman has been great and still has potentially many more years to be great, win championships and all that. He can still look like a monster at Royal Rumble and WM without winning a championship.

    I know this may seem like a 'waste' but my idea is that instead of, as some have speculated Braun vs Triple H (which I don't find interesting other than just seeing Triple H beat for old time sake), Braun gets 'shafted' by GM of Raw and not getting a title shot, he goes crazy on Raw, beating up everyone in sight and DEMANDING a WrestleMania match. He is granted one, but it ends up being in the Andre Battle Royal. So Strowman is basically more upset ... but because of that he goes in that Battle Royal and actually makes it INTERESTING for the first time. He goes on a SUPER MONSTER RAMPAGE and does all sorts of power moves to eliminate over 20 other wrestlers and wins the Battle Royal. He also makes sure that he is GUARANTEED a title match for winning the Battle Royal, not the garbage literally nothing special that previous Andre Battle Royal winners have got.
     
    #38
  14. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    I think it's pretty stupid to say anything other than Reigns v. Lesnar for the Universal Championship is main eventing Wrestlemania. That fact was pretty much established well over a year ago and it's been slowly brewing ever since Reigns defeated The Undertaker at last year's Wrestlemania. Roman v Brock is happening and the fans are going to shit all over it, and rightfully so.

    This match is going to be pure destruction. With so much build going into Strowman, he shouldn't be anywhere near the finish. Actually he should win the match but that's not happening. I see Braun being taken out after totally dominating the majority of the match to have Brock run in and pick up the scraps to earn his hefty paycheck. Brock goes on to lose at Wrestlemania and Braun eventually gets his turn at Summerslam later in the year. He certainly deserves something big this year and no matter how much i want Braun to win here, there's virtually no chance of it happening.

    Hamler's Prediction: Brock Lesnar will retain the Universal Championship.
     
    #39
  15. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    Anything other then HHH getting his nose there and eliminating Strowman while Lesnar takes advantage and pin Kane and I would be surprised. And I mean genuinely surprised by WWE managing to think some other way to sell both Lesnar and Strowman as big deals without hurting them and doing setup for Wrestlemania that doesnt include those two together.
     
    #40
  16. HORRORHOLIC

    HORRORHOLIC Pre-Show Stalwart

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    So what was the deal with Strowman and Lesnar ? It looke like Strowman stiffed Brock with that knee and Brock was legit pissed and immediately punched the hell out of him before yelling and swearing at him.
     
    #41
  17. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Join WZCW because writing is hip
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    That's what it looked like, Brock got stiffed with the knee, cursed and rattled Braun's head with a punch. They replayed it several times so I don't know if that was planned or Brock just gave him a warning strike to keep him in line.
     
    #42

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