WWE General Complaints Thread

Discussion in 'World Wrestling Entertainment' started by Jack-Hammer, Apr 28, 2011.

?

Should we complain?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. MAHGAWD

    MAHGAWD Dark Match Jobber

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    Todays wrestling is so fast and choreographed, no body sells anymore. They get dropkicked off the top rope and bounce right back up so they can take the next move. Wrestlers need to SLOW DOWN! Tell a story..grab a body part and work on it the whole match..and SELL IT!! Have the fans thinking how in the world the wrestler can win when his leg has been worked on and injured the whole match and he's limping around..can't jump or run as well. Or sell an arm..if the wrestler is right handed..have his opponent work the right arm..taking away the use of the arm. Slowly build to
    a finish..again SLOW DOWN..TELL A STORY. Today's wrestling looks like nothing more than a dance. They get put through tables..hit with steps..and STILL kick out!! Its ridiculous. Theyre killing the business because they keep having to up the ante. It isn't wrestling anymore..its choreographed synced garbage. The promos dont hit hard anymore..they don't make you sit up and take notice of what the wrestler is saying. Its just like yeah yeah. These wrestlers have gimmicks that don't resinate with anything real about the wrestler. Take Austin for example..his gimmick stone cold was just an amped up version if who he really was..and look at what he accomplished. Hogan contradicts my previous statement but man he could cut a promo. Hogan actually made himself believe in what he was saying..and it came across as genuine..not some idiot memorizing a script. Its just garbage compared to what it was before. Just my opinion. If you respond to this please do so respectfully. As I said its just my opinion. And of you state yours do so respectfully. Thank you.
     
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  2. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    I agree with you on this but I Wouldn't put the wwe at less the main roster part of the company as less of those choreographed matches and more of the telling a story slow matches we're wrestlers actually sell or like what I like to call them, the matches that Dave Meltzer hate which mean that most hardcore wrestling fans will hate. The current wrestling fans want to watch matches with 50 fall finishes and look fake because it feel too choreograph which is a problem on the indy's and in NXT.

    The only problem the main roster as is on the promo front in my opinion, but that's because a lot of them, especially on the mid card don't have the experience to cut promos and nxt isn't really giving them to chance to learn how to improvise on promos and it's just the generic scripted promo they learn at the performance centre which in the end is hurting them more then helping them.
     
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  3. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I get you're point and they are valid point. I considered myself one of those that will call the smarks on their bullshit but I always give a reason why they're opinion is wrong.

    WWE as whole is all about money and how they can make money. It was that way during the territories days with Vince Sr and it stayed like this during to Hogan era all the way to today. The difference is that now, they have to deal with a different animal all together in the fact that they have so many different type of fans so the way they see who's over and who's not isn't with who the fans cheer for anymore but who's selling the most merchandise for them. Reigns for all the bad booking decisions, all the hate the smarks as toward him or the way he's was booked, his still the no.2 merchandise seller in the company so technically in the eyes of Vince and other people's within the company, reigns is one of the more over guy on the roster so they will continue pushing the guy no matter what the smarks says.

    Daniel Bryan wrote it in his book, the reason they put a halt to his first push was because while he was getting the loudest cheers, that didn't translate into money because nobody was buying his merchandise. So in today's wwe, you want somebody to get a main event spot, you need to support him by buying is merchandise because just cheering for the guy isn't working anymore.
     
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  4. the_peoples_adam

    the_peoples_adam heROCKules

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    Well I agree with you on this..All matches are becoming more kicks and top rope manoeuvres and less technical..When I look at Ronda's debut match at WM it was a difference in that aspect and that's why it stood out of rest of the matches...It was great to watch HHH and Angle working some old school moves even though they where slow it was good..That's how you do it..And Ronda too delivered..
    And another thing is storytelling for the match itself..They lack good stories and purpose for a match..I mean why should I watch a match between two guys who has no purpose to fight for..That are trying to create stories but very lackluster in generating interests from fans..Very strong scripts, storylines and promos are always the key to produce interest for watching something whether it's wrestling or any other entertainment product...One such story that could be great right now is Miz vs Bryan..They can turn it into a great story and I hope they do so..Also Bray and Matt is another case they can work wonders if done right..
    But what they are doing right now is authority figures making random matches and a series of matches between that same pair of guys , week in and week out without any great story or purpose and the end result is disappointment from everywhere and everyone, even for themselves..
     
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  5. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    You're fucking clueless, NXT promos are in bullet point format and have been since the network started...
     
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  6. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    Really, because I've been watching NXT since they started this format as a developmental show and that's before the network and if those promo are in a bullet point format like you said, then I understand why they give them scripted promos on the main rosters because most of them are horrible.
     
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  7. Ceen

    Ceen Occasional Pre-Show

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    I’m not a Meltzer fan, I think he is going a bit out of what wrestling is supposed to be, at least, looking at WWE (no NXT). But I LOVE this wrestling era. We have big guys, small guys, long story-telling matches or short and intense ones.

    What is really bad for wrestling, is the Superhero’s and 3 move’s trademarkt still going. The Roman’s, Cena’s (even he is having an adaption) or lately, WWE’s Nakamura’s (he is completly limited to do 3 moves, even all his background), Corbin’s, Mojo’s, Jinder’s Cody’s or Okada’s.

    About Promo, all indy guys should be able to promo themselves, but yeah, a lot of guys needed to learn how to. Apollo or Corbin are exemples, the were still learning and they call-up them.
     
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  8. AnthonyM4

    AnthonyM4 Getting Noticed By Management

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    When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about Brock Lesnar's unfair contract! It made me sick when I heard about it. Back on topic- yeah I agree a lot of matches have become highspot after highspot for the sake of a 5 star match. That's why I think guys like the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega are overrated. Everybody loves those guys because of their stunt show matches, but there's no psychology in them. John Cena and Roman Reigns matches aren't like this and I think that's one reason they aren't liked. They are very good workers. AJ Styles can do both the technical and high flying and that's why I think he is all around the best worker today. Phenomenal isn't just a nickname you know.
     
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  9. Very Average

    Very Average Dark Match Jobber

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    Couldn't agree more, seems almost wrong that 2 part timers whose primes were at least a decade ago seemed to be telling a better story in the ring than some of today's best. Just watching Triple H and Kurt Angle makes me appreciate how good they are now and how good they were in their absolute prime.
     
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  10. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Some wrestling is fast, some isn't. It depends on what kind of shtick a performer is trying to adopt. If you're smaller, being fast is supposed to be your thing.

    I don't know what you mean by wrestling being so choreographed. At what point is something -- that is choreographed anyway -- too choreographed for you?

    I wouldn't say that nobody sells anymore, and I don't think that you and I see selling as the same thing. How would you describe proper selling?

    Do you have an example of when someone was dropkicked off the top rope, bounced right back up, and then took the next move? I'm not saying that it never happens, I'd just like to be able to see an example of what you're talking about.

    I might be assuming too much here, but I think that you're saying that by moving too quickly wrestlers aren't allowing themselves to sell properly. Also; that wrestlers are just jumping into different spots without properly indicating that anything debilitating had happened in a previous spot.

    I'm of the opinion that being fatigued enough to fall for a finisher and being pinned, or being pinned by a roll-up or feet on the ropes, is how wrestlers sell the damage they've received over the course of the match.

    If a wrestler just endured a lengthy submission spot, they'll grunt and groan but persevere and show that they can walk off the pain. The most egregious example of no-selling that I can remember was when Bret refused to acknowledge that thirty minutes of having his dominant arm worked by Shawn had any affect on him.

    I think that fans are more likely to react to a high impact move rather than a submission, and that pretending to be injured is a lot tougher to sell in the Information Age. It's not that they're not telling a story, they're just telling one that you don't like.

    From what I've seen, getting put through a folding table will keep anyone down for a pin. The announcer's tables are supposed to be horribly designed and easily collapsible. I don't recall someone being hit with the steps and still kicking out.

    It's still wrestling dude, if it's horrible or it's good it's still wrestling.

    What promos aren't hitting hard?

    So... you feel that wrestlers would be better at giving promos if they just behaved more like amped up versions of themselves? So you want no theater whatsoever? I'm having trouble imagining what exactly you mean by what you said. Steve Austin was a character, Steven Anderson would have never sprayed his boss with beer or given the middle finger to Mike Tyson.

    Before as in The Attitude Era? Because if you watch that stuff over again, it's basically a more extreme version of the negative world that you just described of today's era. Back then you had Undertaker magically fix his broken knee and go on to defeat a guy who lived in the boiler room of every arena in the country named Mankind.

    Before as in The Hogan Era? If no-selling is your pet peeve, then you really shouldn't be criticizing any era before you criticize that one. Hogan would "Hulk-Up" and at that point getting hit by a loaded freight train wouldn't faze him. The promos were redundant as all hell too, the same catchphrases recycling the same messages.

    I respectfully disagree with your assertions.
     
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  11. LibSuperstar

    LibSuperstar Occasional Pre-Show

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    They mastered it as many in their era. Loved the story told in the match.
     
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  12. SplatteredDream

    SplatteredDream New Member

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    So basically you've taken everything Steve Austin has said on his podcast for the last couple of years and regurgitated it here.

    People who think they really have an insight on wrestling who use the term 'business' in this fashion are hysterical. Closest you've been to a ring is of the onion variety.

    I'm sure WWE or some other company are going to be knocking down your door any day now asking you to 'save wrestling!' :lmao:
     
    #1387
  13. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    I'm not sitting through three hours of "storytelling" matches that focus on working over a body part. It is nice to see that on occasion but as a reoccurring match layout it is best to leave it as a "sometime" thing.

    I also don't know where it is going from that WWE matches are ruining wrestling. I've been watching for a long time and I don't remember a time when WWE focused on this "storytelling" feature. If I'm right, that means that WWE matches have been ruining wrestling for over 30 years. Is it really "ruining" anything if it is taking over 30 years?

    I have my complaints about WWE but this isn't that high up on the list and it certainly isn't ruining anything. Ruining wrestling is Baron Corbin's job.
     
    #1388
  14. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    What?

    Styles vs Nakamura from WM was a damn good wrestling match with lots of selling and an in-ring story.

    Ciampa vs Gargano, too. The North American Championship as well. Styles vs Mahal from CoC. Lesnar vs Styles, too. Corbin vs Styles. Charlotte vs Asuka had great selling spots. The Mixed Tag at WM also told a great story.

    Any Sami Zayn match should be shown to other wrestlers as a selling 101 and Owens' as well.

    Sure WWE has many finisher-fests, like Reigns vs Cena or Styles vs Cena, but WWE also has actual wrestling. It's a variety show. I don't really know for other promotions.
     
    #1389
  15. Ceen

    Ceen Occasional Pre-Show

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    Have you watched Young Bucks vs Golden Lovers? That was a classic of Psichology, all the conflict between them, all the thing with Matt’s back, Kenny not going for the OWA, conflict of not hurting, all the Cody-Kenny feud. Probably (even the year is so long), the Feud of the Year. Even for a casual, that is a match to watch.

    Totally agree with unfairly Lensar contract, I would love to came to a show, don’t speak, get paid, wait for a PPV, suplex and F5, get more paid, repeat. I think Lesnar is not a guy with a cut-off
     
    #1390
  16. Very Average

    Very Average Dark Match Jobber

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    This is the problem, WWE is a business at the end of the day and so they will do what makes the most money. I think that's a part of the reason they are PG, not the whole reason but part of it. That's also partly why they have split the rosters so they can do two tours in essence, I hate the brand extension/roster split, I would prefer one roster, one set of titles who work Raw and Smackdown every week but they would not make as much money.

    Money talks at the end of the day, so if your favourite wrestler doesn't make as much money as say a John Cena or Roman Reigns, chances are they won't be pushed in the same way as they are/were.
     
    #1391
  17. Vintage Punk

    Vintage Punk Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Oh lord Jesus where do I start....?? I'll just list several things that I believe WWE should work on improving and if they did, I believe the product would improve.

    1.) Storylines-They will give some feuds storylines and some are just thrown together with no rhyme or reason. I know everyone always cites Attitude Era or Ruthless Aggression era but it is true that during those days, even lower or mid card guys were given some time to create those feuds. Just make me care as a fan about these guys and why they're feuding. Not everyone has to be on the show every week. Sometimes just small segments can get face time for guys and build them up so we give a shit. In short, creative needs to get creative and stop being lazy with the booking. "Hey we don't know what to do with these guys or girls? Ok let's just put them in a multi-man/multi-woman tag match." That is their creativeness many times.

    2.) Promos-now some wrestlers will be scripted because they aren't good with coming up with things on their own or improvising. However, those that can, just give bullet points and let them add a sense of realism. Most of the best feuds added a sense of realism.

    3.) PPVs-Years ago, each PPV for the most part was detailed and made you feel like you were watching something special. Now unless it's Wrestlemania, lack of set designs and pyro make you feel like you're just watching a Monday Night Raw. Create unique sets and start getting rid of gimmick PPVs like MitB, TLC, HIAC, Extreme Rules, etc. Save that stuff for an actual match so it feels like it means something. Change those PPVs to Halloween Havoc, King of the Ring, Starrcade, etc. Promos for upcoming events or things are fine, but keep to a minimum. I don't wanna see commercials on a PPV for a new episode of ride alongs or any of those other shitty shows on WWE network.

    4.)Raw/Smackdown shows-please announce team, stop with all of the agendas pushing down our throat. I understand catch phrases here and their but damn! Yes, I know it's Vince many times but call the match and do so with some enthusiasm and hype. Say what you want about Mauro if you think he's to hyped or whatever but damn he makes me want to be interested on what's going on in the ring and whoever is working. Take commercial breaks when they make sense and for the love of God, stop putting promotional ads in the middle of matches! Not to mention those stupid ass graphics that have been coming up for the past few months that spell out what the wrestler just said on the screen!

    5.) Kayfabe-yes I know it's pretty much dead or at least on life support but can we at least get a little bit of it. Back in the day, if you were a heel you wouldn't be caught dead with a face but in today's world, we have heels and faces taking pictures together on vacations or trips, we have them acting buddy buddy on shitty programs like Total Divas, etc. Again, add some realism. Yes we all know it's scripted but have some storyline continuity and create some belief.

    6.)Tell a story in the ring-many matches that get the crowd into are back and forth matches that highlight each wrestler. Like some have said it doesn't always have to be high spot after high spot. Tell a story in the ring. At least even in defeat, we can appreciate the wrestler for what they just showed us. Couple that with announcers giving a shit about the match and it will present itself well.

    That's my thoughts for now but if they could just work on several of these things improvement would be made dramatically just by those points.
     
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  18. Macho Mans Beard

    Macho Mans Beard 'The Bringer of Rain'

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    I agree with this whole thread. But there has to be some reasoning behind them going balls out in the ring. I think a lot of it has to do with pure athleticism. Todays wrestlers are bred more to do faster paced matches.

    A lot of this stems from society wanting fast paced action. For example most sports are going to a faster paced format (Baseball, Football and Hockey) because fans of those sports want the action to keep playing out instead of slower paced games. Which is also why most of us change the channel if a game is boring.

    So wrestling has adapted to the times and I can agree that the selling aspect of the matches has gone downhill. Stone Cold did an entire podcast talking about the lack of selling in a match. Gave a lot of credit to Dolph Ziggler and The Miz as being the best 'Sellers' in the business today. Which I agree with 100%.

    We want faced paced. And you got a huge sense of that 'want' at WM and the NXT Takeover. Matches that had fast paced action were remembered and the matches that werent, they got a "Boring" or "This sucks" chants. (Granted the RR/Lesnar match sucked, so it was deserved) But matches like the Rollins/Balor/Miz match got a huge pop, because the match was awesome and memorable. Now I will applaud WWE in making the Rousey match at a slower pace. It didnt expose Rousey or Stephanies abilities and moves were made more impactful and you got the sense that they were kicking the hell out of each other. They were selling simple moves because they had very green participants.

    Now to my problem with WWE and wrestling in general: The thing I hate is that WWE feels the need to make their shows much more Soap Opera'ish. I see the need for promos of course (Last nights Big Cass promo was great) But these cut scenes like showing the 'Trainers Room' and then cutting to Renee Young was terrible. (I actually changed the channel) Plus I hate the whole 'Reaction' after a promo where they show the interviewers face for 5 seconds with nothing being said, just a stupid ass look. That drives me crazy.
     
    #1393
  19. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I will disagree with you here to some extent.

    I am one of those people who have a go at the marks. Because many of them bag WWE, hate on every little thing about it, but still keep watching.

    Can you see how idiotic that is? Either they should admit that the product isn't too bad (or they would stop watching) or stop watching it altogether.

    My late brother used to be the biggest wrestling fan out. But then he lost interest over the course of time, and eventually stopped watching, stopped buying PPVs, and didn't even follow it anymore. He went cold turkey.

    At first, I was disappointed (and a little annoyed at him), that he chose to turn away from WWE. But, I had a level of respect for him too, because he didn't moan constantly and then keep watching, he stuck to his convictions. I hoped that he would change his mind.

    He also didn't go online and bag the product constantly. He just had no opinion on it anymore, and went and followed other things.

    I get stuck into smarks because they need to put up or shut up. Either watch WWE, admit that it does some things right, or stop watching it, attending shows and buying merchandise, and stop posting here.

    I come on this board to discuss something I love with fellow fans who also love the product. Instead, there are many here who hate the product (they must, since they never say anything good about it).

    Also, the fans don't know everything either. I would back a guy who made millions promoting a global product over thirty years over some person behind their computer.

    You say that the fans pay. Well, no one puts a gun to your head. You pay because you come to be entertained. If you are not entertained, you have the right, as the customer, to decide if WWE deserves another cent of your money.

    If people truly hated the product, they would stop watching and following it. Then they couldn't post on here, since they can't criticize something they haven't watched. Sometimes I think some here watch wrestling purely to find fault with it and bag it.

    Sometimes big guys are the right person to be champion over little guys. But if Vince pushes someone, many here will choose someone else to follow, just to be difficult. Most here never hated on Reigns until Vince pushed him. I bet if their fave indy wrestler got pushed to the moon, and was all over the product, his fickle fans would abandon him too because many wrestling fans don't know what they want, so how can WWE give them what they want?
     
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  20. LibSuperstar

    LibSuperstar Occasional Pre-Show

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    With many fans I think it's more like they're a faithful of the brand but they want things to improve. They may not have the experience of promoting but they know what they want to see. Now whether it draws or not is another story.
     
    #1395
  21. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    Everyone harps on about "tell a story in the ring" but the reality is that is NOT what WWE does... WWE is a soap opera SET in a wrestling company, so the matches themselves are merely a part of the story, not where the story gets told like in the past.

    A lot of older guys dislike this but they still show up cos they can throw in old school ways of doing it and the IWC will love it... but the casuals won't even notice that they're "working a body part to build drama", just that this hold is going on a long time.

    The "telling a story" thing now only works because not everyone actually does it... there are spot monkeys and story tellers on the same show... just like if everyone is doing flippy stuff then it turns you off (the DIVE controversy) the product.

    What is "wrong" with WWE is it isn't wrestling like even that company used to be... it's a soap... accept that and 99% of its problems become understandable and not that major. It's profitable, growing in worldwide stature and still draws ratings... so whatever problem we imagine there is, it can't be that big a deal to the company.
     
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  22. mkw1962

    mkw1962 Getting Noticed By Management

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    What is WWE doing ? Why is Brock still Champion ? After GRR and how they screwed Roman I am asking this question. Brock makes 600k per match, he is a part timer and shows up when he wants what is this hold he has on Vince. WWE has enough talent they do not need Brock to fill a stadium. I know the fans do not like Roman than they should have given the Title to Braun, just give someone the Title and get rid of Brock WWE is just wasting money they do not need Brock anymore just my opinion.
     
    #1397
  23. LibSuperstar

    LibSuperstar Occasional Pre-Show

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    Lesnar is an attraction so WWE will milk him for what he’s worth.
     
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  24. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

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    Wouldn't be surprise if monday, you have kurt angle announce that Reigns gets his rematch against Lesnar at backlash and they completely scrap the Joe/reigns match.
     
    #1399
  25. maddawg1919

    maddawg1919 New Member

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    The problem with WWE is...

    #1 They have hired nothing but ex-wrestlers and family as off-screen employees and writers (obviously to offset the lawsuits for workplace injuries and long term drug (steroid) use). With no experience and/or abilities for such a role... Yes - it is a family run business which I fully wish to succeed. But you can't hire every son of a wrestler, friend of a friend, and frankly wrestlers who have no managerial experience and expect to succeed in the long term. (STORY LINES ARE HORRENDOUS - PERIOD"."!)

    #2 WWE went PG when they started down the above path, and their story lines went to shit to try and make up revenue instead of solving problem #1 (a.k.a. half-assing it.)
     
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