WWE Finals: Big, Bad, and Dangerous vs. Edge and Christian

[Shocky]

The following match is the finals of the WWE Region, this match takes place in A WWE Ring, under WWE Rules.

Big, Bad, and Dangerous (Big Van Vader and Bam Bam Bigelow)

vs.

Edge and Christian

 

[klunderbunker]

Ooh boy this one is tough. BBD is just physically dominant, but EC could be just what's needed to stop them. EC are just sneaky, and that is what it's going to take to stop the big men: cheating. Edge and Christian are hardly small men in their own right, and they have the speed to counteract the power game of BBD.

However, there are big strong teams, and then there's BBD. They have a speed game all of their own that makes them lethal. You have nearly 1000 pounds of moonsaulting bad assery coming at you. That's hard to stop. With EC being who they are though and having their style, I think they could take it, but I don't think they will. The spear and the unprettier are worthless here, so it's BBD.

 

[tarp]

I have never been a big fan or EC. They were a good team but not a great team. I think this should've been The Brainbusters against BBD but whatever. I think Vader and Bigleow will ground the mess out of Christian. They will take him down quick leaving only Edge to fight the two beasts. I see Vader in the end catching Christian in the corner with the body splash and level off with those deadly punches and a quick tag to Bigleow who comes off the top on Christian while Vader gets a cheap shot on Edge to keep him away. BBD advance!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

So let me get this straight.

On one hand, you have Edge and Christian, who have the 2nd shortest average length of reign with the WWE Tag Titles (out of the top 50 teams) with a mere 29.8 days per reign. Think about that. On average, Edge and Christian held the Tag Team Titles less than a month. Pick it up at one pay per view, drop it at the next. Only the Hardy Boyz have a worse A.L.O.R.

On the other hand, you have Big, Bad, and Dangerous, the most dominant and fearsome tag team never to wrestle as a unit in WCW or WWF. These two men owned New Japan Pro, and there is no doubt they'd squash the hell out of E&C.

Everything E&C do well, BB&D can do just as well or better. E&C may have a minor edge in speed and agility, but it's negligible. BB&D and just as ruthless a pair of heels as anyone has ever seen, and they'll be able to toss E&C around like rag dolls. You're not going to hit an unprettier on either man, and both men are quick enough to avoid or counter the spear.

Big, Bad, and Dangerous win this round. Edge and Christian shouldn't have won this tournament last year, and they won't win it this year.

 

[Slyfox696]

Anyone who votes for Big, Bad, and Dangerous are IC25 marks. Seriously.

I'm not the kind of person to vote for a team because they are recent (actually, it's usually the opposite), but come on. E&C take this in a cake walk in just about every major aspect of wrestling.

So let me get this straight.

On one hand, you have Edge and Christian, who have the 2nd shortest average length of reign with the WWE Tag Titles (out of the top 50 teams) with a mere 29.8 days per reign. Think about that. On average, Edge and Christian held the Tag Team Titles less than a month. Pick it up at one pay per view, drop it at the next. Only the Hardy Boyz have a worse A.L.O.R.

Hmm, an interesting point.

But, let me ask you this. While E&C's total reign time came to an average of a month, how many tag team championships did Vader and Bam Bam win?

7 titles > 1 title


This isn't even close.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I'll take one meaningful NJPW run and a tag team that would have dominated either WWF or WCW had their paths crossed over a team with 7 title runs, few of which were more than transitional title tosses. By your logic, Sly, Flair > Hogan because 20 titles > 12 titles.

And to say this match is a walk in E&C's favor is naive. In fact, I'll bet that you're here not even caring who actually wins this match - you're trying to prove you can put away my kool aid. And as a result, you're trying to allow an over rated team which you have accused of being useless outside of spotfest matches ON NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS just to get a rise out of me. Sucks being bored, huh?

 

[Lee]

Edge; 12 tag belts
Christian; 9
Edge and Christian as a team have 7 reigns, two matches of the year and one tag team of the year

Bam Bam; 3 tag belts
Vader;2 tag belts
BBDP; 1 combined reign.

So on merits alone, I go with Edge and Christian.
BBDP

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Edge; 12 tag belts
Christian; 9
Edge and Christian as a team have 7 reigns, two matches of the year and one tag team of the year

Bam Bam; 3 tag belts
Vader;2 tag belts
BBDP; 1 combined reign.

So on merits alone, I go with Edge and Christian.
BBDP

So THIS is why you don't post wrestling often.

It's been well established that championship belts are not the singular indicator of the greatness of a tag team. If it was, by your "logic" FLUK, Crash Holly is among the greatest wrestlers ever to walk the earth, since he held the Hardcore belt so many times.

In fact, I think it was Sly who originally started taking people to task for using # of title reigns as the sole indicator of a wrestler's or a team' greatness.

But yeah, E&C holding the WWF Tag Belts for less than a month at a clip with competition from fellow spot-monkeys the Hardyz, equally spotty table-monkeys the Dudley Boyz, and the uber-drawing "Too Cool."

BB&D contended with the likes of the Steiner Brothers, Hiroshi Hase & Keiji Mutoh, Scott Norton & Tony "Ludvig Borga" Halme, and countless other Japanese legends.

Folks, don't let Sly's tough talk and FLUK's rare wrestling forum appearance sway you away from the RIGHT CHOICE. Big, Bad, and Dangerous were not a team that stayed in wrestling forever, but the time they were a team, they dominated.

 

[Gelgarin]

I like E&C.

I liked them together when they spearheaded the most prolonged period of interest in the tag team division in the last decade.
I liked them as singles competitors when they succeeded in being the most interesting heel of their respective company.

BBaD... well I'm going to be honest, I know jack all about them. They were two big guys the athleticism of whome gets saverly overrated. I've seen a fair few Vader matches recently (just in case he comes up against Thesz) and I've generally found them a lot less impressive than the highlights videos that show up on youtube.

With regards to title reigns. I don't care. And that goes both ways. I don't care that E&C had more, and I don't care that most of them were, taken individually, shit. What I do care about is what a group "accomplished" for tag team wrestling. I'm going to give IC a chance to prove me wrong since I don't know NWJP that well; but from what I've seen Biggs and Vader's reign looked very much like a typical monster heel run. Certainly nothing revolutionary.

Conversely, E&C's collective reigns formed the foundations of what will be remembers as one of the golden eras of tag team wrestling. Some-body's going to pop up and give me a point by point breakdown of why 1999-2001 was total crap, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Since that time the WWE has never been able to capture that much interest in the tag team titles, which I interpret as a pretty good statement for the ability of the teams involved.

So to summarize; I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Edge and Christian but I'm going to give IC an opportunity to sell Vader and BamBam to me before I vote. Partly because I'm interested in what all the fuss is about but mostly because he seems to like talking about them.

 

[Big Sexy]

BBD was lucky to make it this far. People just see the two names and think automatically that they are going to crush everyone. E and C was a great team and they were together for 3 years. BBD was just two big guys thrown together for a few months in Japan.

BB&D contended with the likes of the Steiner Brothers, Hiroshi Hase & Keiji Mutoh, Scott Norton & Tony "Ludvig Borga" Halme, and countless other Japanese legends.

With the exception of the steiner brothers none of those other teams mean anything to most people. They might be legends in Japan, but why is that such a big thing. Any american wrestler that's 6-7 300 pounds can be a legend in Japan.

These two men owned New Japan Pro,

They held the titles for less then 4 months in Japan, I wouldn't call that owning people.

 

[Lee]

So THIS is why you don't post wrestling often.

What that being a champuion means that a company holds you in high regards? I don't see how that has to do with anything, if you notice the past few days I have posted quite a bit in the past few days in the wrestling sections.

It's been well established that championship belts are not the singular indicator of the greatness of a tag team.

No it's not, but having 2 matches of the year, and a tag team of the year is a little nod. If you were to ask the average wrestling fan to name tag teams of the past, I can guarantee you that E&C will come up miles before BB&D are mentioned.

If it was, by your "logic" FLUK, Crash Holly is among the greatest wrestlers ever to walk the earth, since he held the Hardcore belt so many times.

Well there is a huge difference between the WWF tag belt (remember there was only one here) against the Hardcore championship, so that fails there.

In fact, I think it was Sly who originally started taking people to task for using # of title reigns as the sole indicator of a wrestler's or a team' greatness.

If it was solely based on that I wouldn't have mentioned the matches of the year, or tag team of the year awards.

But yeah, E&C holding the WWF Tag Belts for less than a month at a clip with competition from fellow spot-monkeys the Hardyz, equally spotty table-monkeys the Dudley Boyz, and the uber-drawing "Too Cool."

BB&D contended with the likes of the Steiner Brothers, Hiroshi Hase & Keiji Mutoh, Scott Norton & Tony "Ludvig Borga" Halme, and countless other Japanese legends.

Who are these countless other legends? From what I was aware BB&D 'dominated' Japan for just over 4 months. That's not really a domination

Folks, don't let Sly's tough talk and FLUK's rare wrestling forum appearance sway you away from the RIGHT CHOICE. .

Once again Lee hardly posts in the wrestling section so his opinion is therefore not valid...that's rubbish.

Look at it, this is a WWE match in a WWE ring with WWE rules. Edge and Christian are one of the most decorated WWE tag teams, they're one of the most famous and they fight a tag team who didn't even wrestle as a unit for that long.

If it was on individual all round performances I would go with BB&D but alas it is not...

 

[Slyfox696]

I'll take one meaningful NJPW run and a tag team that would have dominated either WWF or WCW had their paths crossed over a team with 7 title runs, few of which were more than transitional title tosses. By your logic, Sly, Flair > Hogan because 20 titles > 12 titles.

And to say this match is a walk in E&C's favor is naive. In fact, I'll bet that you're here not even caring who actually wins this match - you're trying to prove you can put away my kool aid. And as a result, you're trying to allow an over rated team which you have accused of being useless outside of spotfest matches ON NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS just to get a rise out of me. Sucks being bored, huh?

Wait...meaningful NJPW run? What was meaningful about it? Please share with us what was meaningful about a 4 month title reign.

And, while Hogan and Flair have nothing to do with this, I hope you understand the difference between the greatest professional wrestler of all time, and a tag team that was randomly thrown together for a period of six months.

And yes, E&C is overrated. I've said that numerous times. But what the hell did Vader and Bigelow EVER do? Be randomly teamed together? Win a Japanese title, just to drop it less than four months later? Go on past their team to singles careers of far lesser significance than Edge or Christian?

Just what exactly qualifies Vader and Bam Bam as anything other than fodder for E&C?

 

[I.R.S was ace]

I go for BB&D. They are much stronger than E&C, and when it comes to speed there isn't a lot of differnace between the teams. E&C's only chance woudl be by cheating and I don't see this happening as Vader and Bam Bam are just as resourceful.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The only reason I've managed to get teams like AMW, LAX, Staniels and yes, even the runt of the litter the Motor City Machine Guns so surprisingly far in the tournament is that - in a tournament based on kayfabe skill - status and even title reigns count for little. I continue to emphasise that.

And I can't believe we've had the argument that E&C are "sneaky" cropping up again. People seem to be forgetting (let's borrow a word here) how resourceful the big men were. Their strength easily puts them in a position to toss around the relative lightweights, their technique in a position to quickly break them down, their agility in a position to surprise and fly at them, the durability to shake off a chair shot.

If BBD were a more versatile team, I may even dare to call them the perfect combination. For this tournament anyway. Why? Because this tournament isn't about what promotion people were in, what PWI awards they've held or even the length or number of their title reigns (or how meaningful said reigns were). Forget about how many times E&C have won the titles, and recognise that BBD meet the criteria for what a good team is in this tournament much better.

Oh, and Sly, where were you when E&C beat The Steiners?

 

[Slyfox696]

Oh, and Sly, where were you when E&C beat The Steiners?

They did? Yeah, I'd been pissed.

But, I saw the words "Finals", and thought I'd drop in.

 

[Gelgarin]

I go for BB&D. They are much stronger than E&C, and when it comes to speed there isn't a lot of differnace between the teams. E&C's only chance woudl be by cheating and I don't see this happening as Vader and Bam Bam are just as resourceful.

You see this is the point where the agility of Vader and Bam Bam becomes a joke. Don't get me wrong, as super heavyweights go, they were two of the fastest. (Off the top of my head I'd put early Andre and early Show above them) For their size and weight they were unnaturally, almost scarily athletic. The problem comes when people take the above fact, and then hold it in their mind as a reason to utterly ignore fact number two.

Fact number two being...

Vader and Bam Bam were still fucking slow.

Seriously, if I get a combine harvester; rig up the engine so it can go twenty miles an hour then I've got myself a very fast combine harvester. But if I were to go around car shows talking about how fast my vehicle was I'd get laughed right out of the parking lot.

I know Vader better than BB, so I'm just going to use him for the rest of my soliloquy. When people promote Vader they tend to throw around all the things that "he could do". Sunset flips. Drop kicks. Moonsaults and the like. What is not mentioned is that these spots came very occasionally, and were broken up by prolonged periods of "waiting for Vader to get back to his feet", which took a good while (not into Big Daddy V or Yokozuma territory, but a damn sight longer than it would take Edge of Christian).

Vader could run quite fast, as long as he didn't have to do it for long, and as long as he had a rest period to get his breath back afterwards.
Vader could interject spots into a match that made you doubt you were watching a super heavyweight, and if all you saw were those spots (as in the Vader highlight videos on youtube) then you'd think God had come back and put together a professional wrestler. Once you watch the rest of the match however, you swiftly see that Vader spends most of the rest of it doing a fairly typical super heavyweight routine of strike, rest, strike, rest, strike rest.

I forget who said it in the previous round, but the point was made that the size and strength of Arn Anderson was negated because Vader and Bam Bam were bigger and stronger. Well in this match the speed and athleticism of Vader and Bam Bam are negated because E&C are about ten times faster. They're also more cohesive and have accomplished more as a tag team, both for themselves and for tag team wrestling.

I'm still not voting yet, I don't want E&C to win this tournament, and against any other surviving team I'd vote against them. But BBaD have got through to this stage on a wave of cool aid (see what you Americans have done to me, I'm making cool aid analogies ), I don't think they deserve to be here, and I think they epitimise exactly what a lot of you have been campaigning against in almost every other match. A thrown together team simply getting judged on their singles merits.

Convince me otherwise.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Vader and Bam Bam were still fucking slow.

I'd venture to say they were still as quick or quicker than E&C. Unquestionably more agile. I've never seen Edge or Christian roll under a clothesline or hit a moonsault or a diving headbutt.

I know Vader better than BB, so I'm just going to use him for the rest of my soliloquy. When people promote Vader they tend to throw around all the things that "he could do". Sunset flips. Drop kicks. Moonsaults and the like. What is not mentioned is that these spots came very occasionally, and were broken up by prolonged periods of "waiting for Vader to get back to his feet", which took a good while (not into Big Daddy V or Yokozuma territory, but a damn sight longer than it would take Edge of Christian).

I think after Edge or Christian get powerbombed onto concrete, they'll be taking a while to get up.

Vader could run quite fast, as long as he didn't have to do it for long, and as long as he had a rest period to get his breath back afterwards.

I disagree. I think you're vastly exaggerating these "long periods of rest". And even if you're not, I think that you'll find that when you wrestle a style that puts your opponent out of the action for a long time and are in a tag team match, you can afford long periods of rest.

I forget who said it in the previous round, but the point was made that the size and strength of Arn Anderson was negated because Vader and Bam Bam were bigger and stronger. Well in this match the speed and athleticism of Vader and Bam Bam are negated because E&C are about ten times faster.

Actually, it was said that BBD were too heavy for AA to launch a proper offense. Whereas I have never seen E&C dodge around superheavyweights.

They're also more cohesive

If there's one thing they weren't, it was cohesive.

and have accomplished more as a tag team, both for themselves and for tag team wrestling.

Irrelevant. Is Edge going to beg to spared for the sake of tag team wrestling as Vader bashes his face in?

 

[Shocky]

I take BBD's four month domination over Edge and Christians so called domination of the tag titles under the worst period of tag wrestling i have ever watched.

Edge and Christian had some of the worst title reigns ever. Everyone marks out because they were against the Hardys and Dudleys, equally bad over rated tag teams as Edge and Christian. They beat each othe rup, and traded tag belts. They had some of the msot meaningless title reigns in history. A four month run is greater then a team that averaged a whopping 29 days as tag team titles every tiem they had the belts. Does anyone remember anythign about Edge and Christian outside of five second poses and ladder matches?

 

[klunderbunker]

This is disappointing me. Let me ask anyone that picked E/C this. Just how exactly would either of them pin either of the big men?

 

[Gelgarin]

The same way Styles and Danials pinned the collosal connection. The same way the Guns pinned Boss Man and Akeem.

If we're going to vote people through just becasue they're big, and lets be honest here, the history of tag team wrestling has bestowed very little evidence that size is an advantage at all, then we might as well abandon the tournoment right now and just declare Ardre and Haku or the Headshrinkers the winners.

BBaD were the Japanese tag team wrestling what Khali was to the WWE singles division, and that doesn't make me feel much like voting for them.

 

[Slyfox696]

This is disappointing me. Let me ask anyone that picked E/C this. Just how exactly would either of them pin either of the big men?

By lying on top of them, making sure their shoulders were down flat on the mat?

How else would you pin someone?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

This is disappointing me. Let me ask anyone that picked E/C this. Just how exactly would either of them pin either of the big men?

I respect the fact that KB is in my corner, but my answer to this question is to simply reference WrestleMania 10's Yokozuna vs Bret Hart match ending.

 

[klunderbunker]

Perhaps, but E/C are no Bret Hart, and Yoko is no Bam Bam or Vader.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Perhaps, but E/C are no Bret Hart, and Yoko is no Bam Bam or Vader.

Absolutely true. I was merely making a comment on physics.

 

[BooCocky]

Perhaps, but E/C are no Bret Hart, and Yoko is no Bam Bam or Vader.

what do you mean? Yokozuna weighed like 600 pounds. I'm sure yoko was larger than both Vader and Bigelow.