WWE Divas: Is It Possible Vince Is Undermining Triple H?

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by Jack-Hammer, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    There are no stories, whispers or backstage rumors about this question, it's just something that I've been wondering since last night.

    On last night's Raw, we saw a six Diva tag team match featuring Alicia Fox, Rosa Mendes and Aksana taking on Natalya, Eva Marie & Jo Jo. If I'm not mistaken, last night is the first time I saw Eva Marie or Jo Jo as participants in a match in any way. Jo Jo wasn't even tagged into the match and Eva Marie was flat out awful. She makes the Bella Twins look like Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho. She's most definitely not ready to have an in-ring role and that's obvious to anyone watching her. The fact that Jo Jo wasn't even tagged in suggests that she might be even less ready than Eva Marie and this goes completely against what Triple H has set up in NXT. Eva Marie especially seems to be like some sort of special project for Vince and, as a result, isn't like other members of the roster. This definitely seems like it's something that Vince wants with Triple H ultimately having to go along with it. I'm not trying to say that Triple H hasn't or wouldn't make lousy decisions like this on his own but based on what reports we've heard in regards to how Triple H does things down in NXT, Eva Marie & Jo Jo being on the main roster definitely sounds more like a Vince decision.

    I don't think Eva Marie or Jo Jo have even been members of the NXT roster and it's obvious that Eva Marie's training has been minimal. The only reason she & Jo Jo are even on television is because of the Total Divas show and after seeing how lousy Eva Marie was last night, I'm a bit steamed about that. There are genuinely talented women down in NXT who are waiting to be called up to the main roster, but Vince gives two spots to these completely talentless bimbos because of a lousy reality show? It's decisions like this which make me think that it's time for Vince to step aside. Eva Marie or Jo Jo have no business being on the main roster at this point in time because they obviously don't know what they're doing. We didn't even know who these women were 4 months ago and now they're on the main roster? I get that Vince sometimes thumbs his nose at tradition, it's part of why WWE is still around while its contemporaries are nothing but memories, but this is too extreme of a departure from tradition.

    I'm all for giving someone opportunities, but those opportunities should be earned and these girls haven't earned them in any way, shape or form. Vince is too focused on trying to expand the public perception of what WWE can be and, as a result, is fighting an uphill battle. The general public is always going to think of WWE as a wrestling company because that's what it is. Vince can throw around all the buzz words he wants like "sports entertainment" or "superstars" or whatever but surely, the man has to know that it's not fooling anybody Trying to artificially manufacture women like Eva Marie into "wrestlers" for the sake of a reality show at the expense of more skilled and deserving women isn't going to alter that perception. I think it also sends a lousy message to the rest of the roster and only serves to reinforce the notion that if you're a woman, your primary role in Vince McMahon's WWE is to simply look pretty in skimpy outfits.
     
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  2. vampirek

    vampirek The below sentence is a lie

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    Well the argument has always been Trish had little to no wrestling experience when she started out and turned out to be one of the best ever. However, that is/was more than likely a one in a million. They have previous tried and failed with Torrie, Christy and so on.

    In a way it makes sense to have those Divas on Raw, as it keeps the Total Divas show going even when it is not airing. It is a success, so why keep them off... however I would agree it sends out all the wrong messages to the likes of Paige etc stuck in NxT when clearly the Diva division sucks.
     
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  3. MCMG

    MCMG King Of The Ring

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    This is actually what is best for business. The Divas division doesn't draw but is an asset. Look at the AJ/Kaitlyn matches, they were both of a good quality - higher than anything either Bella twin could deliver. However, Total Divas is what the WWE want to push. Total Divas will help the WWE and give them the mainstream exposure which is important and craved by Vince. If the actresses can't wrestle than it doesn't really matter, in fact it can be incorporated into the TV show.

    Triple H wants solid wreslting; Vince wants the WWE to expand into different markets and become even more popular. Vince is going to win at the expense of Triple H and any talented women that are waiting for their chance. I know AJ is currently champ but how long is it before Brie Bella gets the belt so it is on Total Divas.
     
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  4. Mustang Sally

    Mustang Sally Sells seashells by the seashore

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    Yes, and it's discouraging to think Vince would sacrifice the quality of in-ring performance to accomplish what he wants outside.

    I was appalled by what we saw from Eva Marie last night. It's understandable that she be inexperienced, but it hardly seems proper to make your wrestling debut on Raw, of all places, when you don't know what you're doing. She was wooden, robotic, and was plainly looking to her opponent to take the lead. I don't know what WWE management saw in her in the first place. I'm ashamed to say I watched her on the reality show, getting herself a gig to dance with Fandango when she didn't even bother to learn his routine.....and I still don't know whether the whole thing was scripted or real.

    As to Jojo, it's ironic, to say the least, watching someone make their in-ring debut without getting into the match. That speaks volumes, no?

    As to the notion that Vince is undermining Triple H.....who knows? But if Trips doesn't want these two gals around, last night's results will do a better job of convincing Vince than anything his son-in-law could say.
     
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  5. Insertaname

    Insertaname Dark Match Jobber

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    Does anyone have a youtube link to the match? I just got done watching the cutdown version of Raw on Hulu and I was looking forward to watching it for the train wreck, but it's pretty obvious it was so bad that they got rid of it during the cuts.
     
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  6. Jstrike

    Jstrike Pre-Show Stalwart

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    i don't think your being quiet fair.
    jojo never got a chance, and as far as eva marie she was pretty much getting squashed i think she had one moment of hitting. it ain't easy to wrestle who's to say this is'nt a build up to total divas? maybe she suppose to be bad?
    bella's have been wrestling for years so take a look at their 1st match and compare it to eva maries. you can't already judge her just cause she's attractive. just cause a women wrestler is hot don't mean she can't wrestle.
    people said aj lee was horrible now they say she's best thing in the wwe right now. i don't think you should already set off on eva marie when she didnt get a fair chance.
     
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  7. Xpyred013

    Xpyred013 Dark Match Winner

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    I'm just curious, but is it possible that maybe the match was intentionally made bad specifically for the Total Divas show itself? What i mean is maybe they never tagged Jojo in so Jojo could hate that Eva chick and trash talk on the show when it comes back. And maybe Eva sucked so that Jojo could trash talk that as well?
     
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  8. Rico_Len

    Rico_Len Dark Match Jobber

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    Come on man, would you listen to yourself? Who are you Jesse Ventura? This isn't a conspiracy to undermine HHH. Just because the noobs are kind of sort of in 1 6-man tag on Raw doesn't mean they're promoted to the main roster. You noticed they were paired up with Natalya right?

    The normal routine for noobs is to work a tag match, watch the vet get his ass kicked around the ring for a while then the new guy comes in as the hot tag, saves the day and gets over with the fans. That didn't happen AT ALL. Eva Marie got her ass beat while Jo Jo was forced to look on, then Naty came in to clean up the mess. This match was an example that they aren't ready for the big time yet. If the funkadactyls are just barely good enough for non-raw television matches the noobs were probably just getting a big head and needed to be shown up.

    It's a common practice in wrestling to have some new guy get too big for his britches and need to be humbled. New wrestlers are always put through the ringer so that their endurance and love for the business can be tested. Whether it's 500 hindu squats all week long (like DDP), or getting your leg broken by your trainer (Hulk Hogan), or getting stretched by a legit hooker in someone's basement like all the graduates of the Hart Dungeon, wrestlers get humbled, humiliated and that asses beat.

    That's all this was, publicly, in front of millions. It doesn't get much worse for a diva than that.

    Yeah, Vince McMahon is trying to undermine HHH in some horribly elaborate storyline that only Vince Russo could come up with and think was a good idea. That's what this is all about.
     
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  9. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I heard the story that when Trish started in WWE, she was considered a joke, and nothing more as a fitness model who didn't belong in the biggest wrestling company in the world.

    Apparently, Trish decided to train herself, and did whatever she needed to to become a great in ring performer. As a fitness model, she did a range of sports to improve her stamina, build up and versatility. For example, the reason she was so flexible in her wrestling moves was due to her yoga training. She then emerged as a great in ring performer, and did it off her own bat, in her own time, because she wanted to be the best.

    If some of these divas want to improve in the ring, and WWE aren't giving it to them, then take up swimming, yoga, boxing and all the other things Trish did to improve her performance.
     
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  10. matman8540

    matman8540 Ha! I kill me!

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    The other part of that equation was that the WWE had a fantastic trainer for the women at that time; Fit Finlay. When he was the lead trainer for the women, they probably had the best action from any group of lady wrestlers ever in a major company. When you consider they had Trish, Lita, Victoria (Tara in TNA, who just said in an interview, that she would never return to the WWE since Fit Finlay was no longer there), Molly Holly, Jazz, and Gail Kim; among others under his guidance. Unfortunately, you really don't have anyone like that now. With the Divas (notice, first time I used that term), it's not about the wrestling, it's about personality and looks. If Sara Del Rey can be half the trainer Finlay was, there might be hope.
     
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  11. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    Sure Finlay played a massive part, but you also had women like Lita and Mickie who were trained by Dory Funk long before they got to the E who were her peers and when she came in you had Tori and Ivory who had been around since G.L.O.W to help out wising them up to the business.

    At the end of the day WWE has for years gone with the Diva concept as being ironically what Trish was when she came in... T&A. They didn't hide what they wanted from her but she worked hard to improve herself and once she'd convinced the brass of her potential was given every break and advantage to continue improving. Look at Layla, she was greener than Kermit when she won the Diva Search but over time improved and is now a solid B- worker.

    The newer Divas from the show are facing the same issues the people from Tough Enough and the Diva Search had in that they are not coming into this from the perspective of being wrestlers but TV stars trying to be wrestlers. They're not going through the elimination and rigorous training that the Tough Enough crew were and they're looking for different things at the end of the day, as they did with the Diva Search.

    What WWE may have done last night with Jo Jo and Eva Marie is say, "You have to go out and do it for us to know...if it bombs, we'll work on it...if you do the work you'll improve and get more chances." but they need the raw materials and for Diva's it isn't who trained them or athletic ability. It's T&A and that factor that makes WWE fans buy into them as belonging as part of the show... THEN they learn to wrestle...

    With someone like Sara Del Ray and Paige and AJ before them, that they may be hot or have marketable qualities is a bonus. They need some women who are workers first... but only a few, cos it's then their job to make the others look a million dollars..

    Now correct me if I am wrong, but that's not a whole lot different from how the mens division works either? So I doubt there's a conspiracy... now someone like Victoria, rather than saying "she won't go back with no Finlay" should perhaps be saying "I learned from Finlay, I want to train these girls"... Paige already has a massive amount of experience (and I am sure her mom could help out a bit too) so she is someone who will help these Diva's improve.
     
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  12. joeg

    joeg Dark Match Winner

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    Where do you get this stuff? I'd like to know.

    The only reason why this match happened was because AJ was sent home from injury. She was supposed to wrestle Kaitlyn but couldn't. They still want to continue off of AJ's angle, but until she returns you get to see Total Divas in the meantime. Even though they can't wrestle, why not try promoting the show in some form anyway? Maybe a match?

    I was freaked out when Jo Jo was in the match as a participant, but at least she didn't get tagged in. I thought that you had to be 21 now to wrestle on TV and Jo Jo is still training at the Development Center. Note: The Development Center is one level DOWN from NXT.
     
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  13. CaptainZaltan

    CaptainZaltan Getting Noticed By Management

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    I'm fairly sure that Trish was a lifelong fan and was actually a host on Live Audio Wrestling before she went to WWF (I used to listen to her), so that was more an example of someone legitimately interested in pro wrestling who just hadn't been trained yet. She had real passion for the business, in addition to sex appeal, which led to her success. It remains to be seen if Eva or Jojo have any passion for or interest in wrestling, or if they are just there to launch careers as models or actresses (or perhaps simply as a second-best to those careers).

    You're right that it makes sense to put the Total Divas on the main show. However, I think the argument is that the WWE could have found women who want to be wrestlers to play the roles of wannabe reality stars (plenty of choices in NXT alone) rather than find wannabe reality stars to play the roles of wrestlers.
     
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