Working - Now vs. Old School

[RVD420]

This might be a long one but please try to stick with me.

The hottest, funiest music can blare with the loudest, flashiest fireworks, but if the fans are silent after the hubbub dies down, maybe the wrestler is not over as much as even the producers have been led to believe by the smoke and mirrors. Fooling yourself is pretty easy when you're caught up in the sizzle too.

For truly big guns, there should be a buzz before the head to head actoun ever begins. It's like an invisible guitar string goosing a live crowd. A million years ago, not really but you get the point, with not a note of music or a spark of pyrotechnics, that buzz was audible and thrilling at the start of a main event. The buzz is still audible today, or should be, when performers are REALLY getting over.

These days, splashy, loud, staged moments are an integral part of the show. And maybe it's saved some wear and tear on wrestlers - or hidden a lack of talent, in some cases.

Either way, all of this shows that when the chips are down, and it's time to make money, Vince knows how to tell the story. What happens when WrestleMania is on the horizon? He puts the right workers in the right situations, minimizes meaningless high spots, maximizes key incidents, and makes absolutely sure that the viewers can grasp what's at stake. While that may mean main eventers take turns laying each other out with their specific finishing moves for a few weeks, at least the premise is established that Triple H's pedigree, Randy Ortons RKO, The Batista Bomb and the Attitude Adjustment mean the match is about to end.

Vince is selling his story to the public, working the fans, just as the wresters have to sell the story of their characters and individual matches. But do they.....

You never really see a match start with a collar and elbow tie up. Sadly, its seems that the surprise kick to the stomach is today's version. While some moders gladiators would claim that the old school headliners did not take as much physical punishment in their time, those folks forget that the bouts themselves were not only more numerous, but also each duel went longer. Therfore, an impressive number of bumps were simply spaced out over more time while executing a slower but stiffer, less acrobatic but more psychological style. Granted, some of the bumps back then might not have been as extreme, not have come at as fast a pace. All bumps hurt, however, and all bumps add up. To be rolling and bouncing around the ring 365 times a year is surely somewhat comparable to doing wilder bumps 170 times during the same period. But do the big bumps really make a difference?

"Wild Bill" Longson (back in the 40's) once said "Working is like sex, just like sex. First, you get them comfortable. Then you take them up a little, but then take them down. Then you take them a little higher. And a little higher. And relax a little. Then take them a whole lot higher. And a little more. Then hesitate and wait a bit. then take them really high and, if you feel it...Bang!!! You take them home...Now that's working, and that's sex too"

Not really quite sure what my point is, or at least I'm just not sure where I stand on the subject. Today's wrestlers work a different way and I'm just not sure if it's better or worse than before. What do you guys all think?

By the way, for those of you who made it this far, thanks (I hate that goddamn smiley)

 

[Loveless]

I agree with the basic thing you're getting across. I think there aren't very many people in the WWE right now who actually know how to work a proper match. 90% of TV matches are incredible basic and not interesting at all and it does feel like the attention is on everything but the wrestling. If the WWE want to create stars, they have to do it in the ring but the talent is so hamstrung that no-one is actually showing their full potential.

 

[Alex]

i have to agree i don't think any of todays wrestlers could work a long match hence (correct me if im wrong) we havent seen an ironman match for years

 

[samboisdead]

For sure their is no story to most of todays matches. Nowdays you just do one incredible highspot after another. If you start losing the crowd then you just jump off something really high or turn 2 or 3 flips so the art of story telling has been lost. I definately think that wrestling was better back in the day. Yea I enjoy the occasional highspot myself but I could actually belive the matches were real back in the old days. They worked hour long matches with the biggest spot being an O Connor roll not becuase they were less talented than todays preformers but because they could. I think the landscape of wrestling is changing once again though and I think it is getting ready to rewind some. With guys like Nigel and Danielson getting put on the main stage I think or at least I hope we are about to get back to some wrestling. And dont get me wrong I am not an old schmuck. I enjoy an occasional Evan Bourne match but come on guys once he does about the 5th big splash off the top the match is just a bore because in my mind I am thinking what more he can he possibly do to this guy.

 

[Slyfox696]

If you are going to plagiarize from a good author, the least you could do is admit the writing isn't yours, if not actually provide your own opinion. What's worse, is I was actually going to create a thread on this book.

Good fucking Lord, try to have an actual opinion. PLENTY of red rep coming your way, as well as an infraction.


As for the thread, this is something I've been saying for a long time, that today's wrestlers use flashy spots to cover up the inability to actually wrestle competently. And when you hurt the realism of a match, you hurt the quality of a match.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Why would you post something like this one this forum? We are die hard wrestling fans! Do you honestly think that no one would pick up on it? This is completely unbelievable. Respect has been lost! At least credit the author

Anyway, on to the point that you didn't actually make. I do agree that some wrestlers use high, flashy spots to hide their lack of talent, but not all do. Jeff Hardy is a prime example of one that would use flashy spots to hide his horrible wrestling ability. Alot of the newer wrestlers do it, but just because some do it, like John Morrison, doesn't mean that they can't wrestle. John Morrison is a pretty damn good in ring performer.

I like the old school way better which is probably why I am more likely to like a match from HBK, 'Taker, Jericho, HHH and so on. You can only take so many flashy spots in one sitting.

 

[Wrath]

Thanks to Slyfox696 we learnt the true author. I just %100 agree with every word the author says. If someone remember old school NWA the most brutal move was a piledriver and clotheslines,elbow drops,leg drops were considered as the most deadly moves. There were no shooting star press',450 splashes or nonsense moves like playmaker. What made those workers so great were their workrates were phenemonal. Even though you know it's fake you always thought it looked so real. No one threw themselves into to table or performed spotty moves to get over. If someone watched Randy Savage's stuff they can understand me better.

Wrestling business has two turning points first one is start of Hogan era the second is Monday Night Wars. In order to make more people watch their show all of those spots and bumps were started. Do we love these spots ? Yes we hell do. When Morrison's doing all those flips we jump out from our seats. I love spots they're exciting but the problem is it kills the realism factor of wrestling. Just think about a heated rivalry two wrestlers hate each other more than anything so if you put these two in a ring to fight would they use moves like moonsault to be exciting or do they just brawl until the match ends. It's my biggest issue with ROH. I actually love ROH as a product but as for in ring product Smackdown is much more entertaining for me. Yes ROH have brilliant athletic matches and exciting moves that we have no chance to see in WWE but when I watch an ROH match I don't feel they are really fighting. Yes WWE's in ring style is much more slower but it makes me believe their matches are more realistic. I have same issue with TNA.

You might ask me why am I so against spots if they're exciting and entertaining. The problem is it kills the importance of being a good worker. Everyone can do all those flips and spots if they are athletic enough but so what makes a pro wrestler different than an ordinary athlete. Pro wrestlers are more like actors who need to believe people what they're doing is real even though people know it's fake. Right now people seem to don't care workrate and all those stuff in these days people give biggest reaction to big spots and wrestling works in that way. I still can't see the heel psychology I saw from Randy Savage or Bret Hart's storytelling. It's right now a lost art form of wrestling. Author is %100 right about what he says maybe right now there are too many exciting moves,spots and bumps right now but the most important thing in wrestling(keyfabe) is losing it's realism.

 

[Cone Stold Steve Austin]

i have to agree i don't think any of todays wrestlers could work a long match hence (correct me if im wrong) we havent seen an ironman match for years

unfortunately u are correct

the last iron man match was at RAW Homecoming in 05 between HBK & Angle which was only 30 min though LOL & the last 60 min iron man match was HHH-Benoit in 04 on RAW

but dont worry everyone soon WWE will have a PPV called "Ironman"

 

[Slam Master]

In my opinion(thats all it is, I still watch every week), the problem lies within the wrestlers. Back in the 80s you had the guys like Beefcake, Hogan, and the bigger-names in WWF just going through the motions; routine-guys with punching, kicking, headlocks, etc. You also had the few exceptions like Flair, Steamboat, Savage, that could work in a reality-based match. Other Wrestlers described watching Hogan work with bigger guys like "watching a walrus tussle with a hippopotamus".

Then as time went on Vince had a young group of athletic, hungry guys that worked, sold in a believable way, and ran their asses off. Guys like Bret and Owen, Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall (for a big guy he was great), Davey Boy, Undertaker (another big guy who was great), 1-2-3 Kid, Mr. Perfect, and others that you can probably think of but I don't want to keep going...HHH never impressed me and didn't stand out but he got in with the right group of guys....

They had longer matches, used real wrestling moves, take-downs, numerous pinning combinations, power, high impact moves, hit the turnbuckles fast, hard, with authority, and the top-rope-high-flying was evolving at this point and came into prominence with HBK, Kid, and others...They used psychology to the best, worked hard, and the matches seemed more spontaneous and exciting to watch..

Today the guys move seem to move slow in the ring when running, hitting turnbuckles, etc. Morrison, Ziggler, Benjamin and Rey may be quick and athletic, but the stuff they do is so rehearsed that they look like they are non-chalantly hitting the ropes and turnbuckles so they can be sure to hit their rehearsed spots. If you go back and watch the matches with they guys from the 90s, their running exchanges with drop downs, leapfrogs, combinations, arm drags, hip tosses and other stuff of that nature went on all the time and the guys were flying through ring.

In today's matches it looks like they don't care. I've heard a lot of veterans in shoots say the younger guys don't have the ambition and attitude and it does show. Its almost reverted to the 80s with the big powerhouses running the show (Cena, Batista, Orton, HHH-who is big compared the the snob days). I find myself watching my DVDs and youtube more and more because today's product seems more phony than it ever was. Jericho vs MVP on RAW recently, MVP hits the ropes and turnbuckles like an old lady. I think Jericho is great too. Its like that in all matches. Were lucky to see a match with descent running exchanges, power lifters besides a vertical suplex or body slam. Wrestling is about the suspension of disbelief and the ability to make the work come off as real as possible. When the wreslters are taking their time hitting the ropes and turnbuckles and barely selling its hard to believe.

 

[GameOver]

it's not entirely the fault of the entertainers themselves they are are alot more athletic than in the 80's however as story tellers, promo cutters and general charisma they suck. and for safety reasons they have to tone stuff down so they can keep doing it night after night with less chance of injury whereas in the 80's it was alot more contact with no worry about regular injuries as they only wrestled maybe twice a week and a ppv every 3 months

Part fault can be put on the general fan base too who can't handle concentrating for more than a few mins at a time and want everything yesterday so the action had switched to quick matches with no purpose.

Things have been changing in the right direction though this yr IMO, more wrestling based matches, less story in favour of more attention grabbing in ring action, less interferences and a shift back to solid heels and faces, and someone has been giving the younger talent a go and they have been listening.

Verdict

80's - great for characters both in and out of ring and comedy, but slow wrestling in general that is painfull to watch now. the big four PPV's began and were exciting. And Survivor Series was the way it should have stayed, Elimination team tag matches

Early 90's - the overall best wrestling product, more athleticism, good characters, more exposure and RAW

mid 90's - emphasis on anti-social behaviour which kicked in the DQ, count out, constant interference and extreme violence phase. however the character depth/roster and exposure was unheard of. phenomenal fueds on every level from opener to main event even jobbers got a push

2000 -2008 - slow painfull death of entertaining wrestling (entertainment era)

2009 - Light at the end of the tunnel, alot has changed for the better this yr, only time will tell if they keep improving

for me 1987-1998 was the best time