Winner's Bracket Debate #6: CP Munk -vs- Pancake

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2012' started by D-Man, Mar 25, 2012.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Which is the bigger Wrestlemania main event; Cena vs Rock 2012 or Hogan vs Andre 1987?



    This is a first round, winner's bracket debate in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

    CP Munk won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

    After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals.

    The maximum amount of posts for each debater in this round is three. Once this criteria is met, (or the allotted time of the debate runs out,) the debate will end and judging will commence.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Thursday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck to the participants.
     
    #1
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  2. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    I'm going to pick which side of the debate that I will argue & I am going to argue the side of Rock vs Cena 2012

    Best of luck Pancake.
     
    #2
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  3. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    I wish to open up the debate.
     
    #3
  4. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    Hulk Hogan is the biggest name in Professional Wrestling, ever. Back in the 70's and 80's, Professional Wrestling and certainly the WWF were just waiting to bust out and explode into the mainstream market. Vince McMahon banked on Hulk Hogan to be the guy to push the WWF to new heights. You can call Vince the brain-child of Wrestlemania, but Hogan was the spearhead that pulled in the billions of fans and made the WWF/E the Million Dollar Company it is today. Everyone loved Hogan, everyone wanted to be in a match with Hogan. So much so, he drew in major stars like Mr.T, Cyndi Lauper, and even Aretha Franklin. Hogan was even the host of show on MTV to solidify a Main-Stream connection for the WWF. Their is without a doubt that Hogan made Professional Wrestling. Andre the Giant on his size alone put the fans behind him. He had that natural presence that just made you look up at Andre and go. "Wow, he is the biggest man in the world. He could beat anybody." And that is what made Andre special. Andre was the Goliath that made the perfect villain for any underdog story. No one could stop the 8th Wonder of the World. And that made Andre the perfect foe for The biggest name in Professional Wrestling, Hulk Hogan.

    Hulk Hogan and Vince drew in the fans, got the main-stream attention, now they just needed something to capture the fans and give them a show that would be the heart and soul of Wrestlemania. And who better to fit that role than the Hulkster and the undefeated, Andre the Giant for the WWF title? An unstoppable force in Hogan against the immovable object in Andre. You didn't need a whole year to build up the hype to this match. The story alone created the hype and Hogan and Andre brought their A-Game and made a tale that is not only the highlight of Hogans and Andre's careers, but it is the greatest legend in Professional Wrestling history. Hell, the spot with Hulk Hogan lifting and body slamming Andre the Giant is a moment that will never be followed up on. No one in Wrestling will be able to have a moment that will be as legendary as the Hogan body slam. Not Rock, not Cena, nobody. And that is no knock on either Rock or Cena by any means. It is simply the most legendary match in Pro Wrestling history.

    Rock and Cena are going to put on a hell of a match, their is no doubt about it. But without Hulk and Andre, Rock and Cena wouldn't have the high stage and the pedestal both Rock and Cena stand on today. Wrestlemania wouldn't be as historic and iconic in not only wrestling, but in mainstream media. Hell, without Hogan and Andre, their wouldn't be a Cena or Rock. The only way Cena and Rock can have a bigger match than Hogan and Andre is if Wrestlemania 28 was on the moon, and obviously that is not the case. Will Cena/Rock be iconic? Yes, but it will never have the same effect that Hogan/Andre had on Professional Wrestling as a whole.
     
    #4
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  5. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    John Cena & The Rock. Bet you never thought you'd be reading those two names on the same page, huh? The Rock, gone from 2003, making rare appearance here and there and John Cena, the 10-time, yes 10-time WWE Champion in the same match as each other at Wrestlemania this year. A match of such a high calibre that not only are people still creaming over the fact that this is taking place, but it was announced a year early. No other match has ever been announced that far back in time, but why is that? That's because this match, featuring two of the biggest superstars in the history of wrestling, is going to be the biggest Wrestlemania Main Event ever. Sure, Hogan & Andre happened and they had the huge "bodyslam" moment, but that was a match that anyone knew could happen. Rock facing Cena is a "Once In A Lifetime" moment. This match will never happen again, so if you blink you're gonna miss it. There may have been a slightly rocky (accept the pun) start to the feud, but underneath, it had already started. The Rock's classic promos with his classic catchphrases, many delivered via satellite up against Cena's new edgy persona, bringing a new light into everything we saw.

    It all began at Wrestlemania 27, where The Rock guest-hosted the show and eventually helped Miz to retain his WWE Championship. The next night on Raw, during an excellent confrontation between Cena & Rock, the match was officially set in stone and with a clasp of the mens hands, the crowd erupted. Fast forward to Survivor Series 2011 and we end up finding the two "unlikely lads" in a Tag Match...as partners. Obviously, it's a way to get your crowd interested in your biggest Main Event ever, and with SS being the 4th best Pay-Per-View that year in terms of Buyrates (Out of 13), it's certainly garnered a lot of interest! What you do have to look at is that in his own right, Cena is already a WWE Legend. The Rock is also a legend in everyone's eyes, but is yet to be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame (2013 anyone?). I can't deny that Hogan and Andre was amazing, because it truly was. The bodyslam, the whole Hogan overcoming this "man-beast" was a great story and brilliant show in itself, but ROCK and CENA. You need to get the "Once In A Lifetime" thing through your heads and the fact that there was a high possibility that you might have never seen this match! There might've been a year long build-up, but no matter what Rock or Cena were doing, you always related it the fact that these two men were going to be fighting at Wrestlemania; let's take a look.

    -------------

    Guy 1: "Dude, did you see the ass-kicking Cena gave Kane last night at Elimination Chamber?! He dumped him right off that Ambulance!"

    Guy 2: Yeah man, that was awesome, but he was just sending a message to Rock, duh."

    Guy 1: Well yeah, because when it gets to Wrestlemania, Cena's gonna kick Rock's ass just like that. There's no way Rock's winning at Wrestlemania, he's too old and he's not important anymore!

    Guy 2: You're wrong dude, Cena sucks, Rock's gonna win this hands down!

    *Continous debate happens until someone huffs and walks away*.

    That might have been a half-assed example above, but I've had multiple conversations that have stemmed from talking about John Cena's wrestling career the past year, hell I've even had one that came from talking about "Journey 2 The Mysterious Island". Not once have I ever had a conversation about Hogan/Andre and in all honesty, I think that that Main Event has been tarnished for a couple of reasons.

    1. Other wrestlers (Cena) have lifted men /nearly/ as heavy as Andre (Big Show/Henry) on multiple different occasions, proving it to be not as difficult as may have been made out.
    2. Cena has also held Khali & Edge on his back simultaneously, a weight that exceeds 600lbs.
    3. Hogan's later career, mainly in TNA has tarnished many things he's acheived as he's almost showing himself up. He past the age to be on TV & it's difficult to take him seriously anymore.

    So there we have it. Yes, Hogan/Andre may have been an amazing Wrestlemania Main Event, I will not doubt that for one instant. But Rock and Cena? It's going to be quick, it's going to be brutal and it's going to be very, very unpredictable. Simply put, it's going to be the greatest Wrestlemania Main Event in history.

    Pancake, here's your ass.
     
    #5
  6. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    When Mae young beat Michelle McCool and Layla on RAW that was a once in a "Once in a Lifetime" moment. Did that make that match or that moment any better, or bigger? Just because it only happens once doesn't make it a classic. Classic moments are classic because of the actual moment, not how rare it is.

    Exactly, this story, this feud between Rock and Cena only has two things. The fact it is a once in a lifetime match, and that it is the number one guy of the last era, passing the torch to the current number one guy. But Hogan and Andre built the torch, made the lighter fluid with their blood, sweat, and tears. And then that body slam lit that torch. And that torch was carried on by guys like Stone Cold, Rock, and even Cena. Hoping they could make moment better than that and make their own torch.

    -------------

    You can easily say the same thing for Hogan/Andre. But imagine the hype much higher, and now think about what would of happen if Hogan and Andre flopped. If Hogan/Andre didn't live up to the hype, that would have been the last Wrestlemania, period. Rock/Cena don't have that pressure on them, Rock and Cena could show up and play Checkers for 30 minutes and Wrestlemania will still live on.


    That is because Rock/Cena is current. It hasn't happened yet. But if you were to talk about the greatest Wrestlemania's of all time, and the greatest matches. They would all be talking about Hogan and Andre the Giant. Hands down.


    1. Those moments are great, but those are irrelevant when it comes to the importance of this match.

      Once again, that is Cena's moment, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of Rock/Cena.

    Hogan's TNA career has done nothing, to tarnish what he has done for the WWF. Did Hogan's WCW career when he formed the nWo hurt his legacy?

    And for that matter, Rock has done more to hurt his legacy as Professional Wrestler than Hogan ever did. Hogan always remained Hogan, his heart always remained with professional wrestling and entertaining the fans. Rock on the other hand gave up on Wrestling, he didn't want to be known as Rock anymore. He only wants to be Rock when it is okay for the Rock, and it seems it needs to be the biggest match of the decade placed for him on a silver platter in order to be the Rock again.

    Hogan/Andre is without a doubt the bigger match than Cena/Rock. This might have been an all new match that has never happened. But this story has been played out with Hogan/Rock, Rock/Austin, And now Cena/Rock. It is the same old tale of old legend versus the current one. There has never been a match that can compare to Hogan versus Andre. But you can easily compare Rock/Cena to any of those other passing the torch matches we have had over the years.



    Want syrup with that? :rolleyes:
     
    #6
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  7. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    No, when Mae Young beat McCool & Layla, it was stupid & thrown together. It might have been "once in a lifetime", but that's only because Mae Young's past it and it was a pure joke. But Rock & Cena, it REALLY is once in a lifetime, whether you believe it or not. Sit there for a minute and think about it, is it really a "Once In A Lifetime" opportunity, for either Rock or Cena, to beat the man who is top of their "Class/Generation". The Rock, one of the top guys of the "Attitude Era" and 7 time WWF/E Champion against John Cena, the main man of this so-called "Reality Era" and TEN time WWE Champion. I think that just might be the most appealing match that I've heard in a very long time. Forget Punk/Cena, this is the true diamond, yes?

    Mindfuck me some more why don't you?

    But does it? Like you've said, they're "hoping" they can make their own torch, but they're not hoping. They know that once their match is over, a brand new torch will have been created. It will be created entirely of Fruity Pebbles, which is a shame because they're not exactly flame ******ant, but that could be resolved in the future. This torch will be passed down the line, to Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, The Miz, R-Truth, Zack Ryder and many other stars who are gradually coming up through the ranks to the Main Event, holding multiple WWE Championships & World Heavyweight Titles. This match is without a doubt going to be the best in passing the torch down to future stars. With the calibre of Rock/Cena, it's going to make people look at people they may happen to face in the future in a whole new light. After this, I would love to see Cena feud with Ziggler/Bryan, hell even Ryder to give them that rub, then finally, someone beats him to again create a new era. Hogan & Andre may have done it well, but I'm sure after years of experience, Rock & Cena are going to make this one ten times better.

    -------------

    I could, but now if you think Hogan, you don't think "bodyslam". You think "Old blonde man fighting like a cripple fucking ladies in sex tape". After this match, you'll be thinking "Cena/Rock beat Cena/Rock in the greatest match I've ever seen". I'm pretty sure that Rock has been working out for this like a son of a bitch and we're going to see one of the most hard hitting matches in recent history. Don't agree with me? You're stupid. Everyone's already talking about it and they will be talking about it even next year at Wrestlemania.

    "Hey man, this Main Event's good, but Rock/Cena last year was epic! This isn't like... half as good!"

    The only way it could be ruined it by Cena/Rock happening next year, but if the WWE have sense, it won't happen and then we will have the greatest Main Event at Wrestlemania in history, unless we happen to have something epic in 2020.


    They might be talking about Hogan & Andre, but only 'til next Monday. Hell, let Big Show, Mark Henry & The Great Khali interfere & Cena AA them all at one ok? The match isn't based on one bodyslam. That's ONE memorable moment, along with Hogan beating Andre, but I could picture and conjure up multiple scenarios in the Rock/Cena match which would make it the most entertaining that there's ever been, believe you me.


    Then does a Bodyslam matter? That was Hogan's moment, but just because it happened in the match, does it really matter? What if we had Cena/Andre & Hogan/Rock. Any man who was in a match against Andre and was able to bodyslam him would make it "Memorable". I fail to see otherwise what makes Hogan/Andre that exciting.


    He might've gone into films and disregarded "The Rock", but I think in the past year we've seen him use the Rock catchphrases, but in all honesty, we're really watching John Cena vs Dwayne Johnson. He may call himself The Rock, but this is a lot more personal now. It's man vs man, not man vs gimmick.


    Until now. Rock & Cena might not have a "Giant" and a roid freak, but it's got the most dedicated man in the the history of Sports Entertainment against The Rock. One of the biggest entertainers in the history of professional wrestling. Come on, this is a guy who uses an Elbow Drop as a finishing move, which he certainly won't use against Cena with any effect. This is the most emotion-filled match in recent history as well. Both men revisiting their pasts, talking history & singing awful rock songs about Cena's mom. Cena's gained an edge from this and a fan in me. If you weren't a fan of Cena and you are now, he's been doing something right, yes? Rock's coming off weak and I'm sure it's being done on purpose. To think you might be able to compare it to Hulk & Andre at first, you might call me mad, even crazy, but it's right. This match will live up to everything Hogan & Andre done in the past and even more. It will be talked about for years to come and when people think of the greatest Wrestlemania match-up, forget Hogan & Andre because Cena & Rock are taking the throne.

    One more post to go and a shit load more to say. I'm only out to flatten that Pancake.
    Sweet enough, jabronie.
     
    #7
  8. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    Yawn, do you see what I mean when I talk about two greats of different eras battling it out become dull and repetitive? When Hogan vs Rock was called for Wrestlemania 18, it was the tale of the number one guy of the Golden Age of Wrestling against the edgier and younger generation in the Attitude era. And after that match, Rock came out victorious. The younger, and newer Superstar outlasted someone past his era in Hulk Hogan.

    And here we are again, except Rock is now Dwayne Johnson, a man past his prime, after alienating the WWF/E and his fans, wants to recover that moment of glory. He wants to remember what he left behind so he can be paid millions of dollars to go out and wear tutus on Disney studio sets. The Rock was the number one guy of the Attitude Era, and maybe the number two guy in the world as a Professional Wrestler. But he isn't Rock anymore, and if these last few months have shown anything, he will never bee the Same Rock we all grew up with and loved over the years. Then you have John Cena, who is on the top of his game, against someone who is no longer able to Bring It like he used to. When Cena beats Rock, it will simply just feel like another formality for the death of the past era. Which is something we are always going to see in ten or twenty years when WWE grows into a new era and gets its new number one guy. Then we will have the new star take on Cena and the vicious feeding cycle continues. No one benefits other than the victor and the fans get that nostalgia kick seeing their favorite guy give one last match.




    Did you know that Cena/Rock match will be the fourth passing the torch match in Wrestlemania history? I don't know about you, but if I watch 3 movies that involve the same plot, just with different characters, you wouldn't bother watching the fourth movie.



    What makes you so sure that will be the case, in Wrestlemania III, Hulk Hogan was scared to death if Andre wasn't going to play along with their finish. He didn't know if his match with Andre the Giant was going to be a giant disaster and cause the death of the WWF. And remember, this is Hulk Motherfucking Hogan. If his middle name wasn't Motherfucking it would have been Confidence. This is a guy who inspired billions and gave birth to Hulkamania. But that Sunday Night he was sweating bullets looking up at Andre. He knew his career was on the line if this match wasn't any short of a success.

    How do you know Rock/Cena be a legendary match? Or for that matter, a bigger main-event than Andre/Hogan? Just because it is two legends doesn't mean it will be bigger than Hogan/Andre. When Rock/Hogan had their match, was anyone putting that in contention with Hogan/Andre? No, when Rock fought Austin, was that in contention with Rock/Cena? Once again no.

    These matches are great on paper, because you are putting together two giant names that can, and will draw. But unless Rock/Cena produce a story that will be captured in the hearts of wrestling fans throughout the world like Hogan and Andre did, hell if they can even replicate a moment as awe inspiring as Hogans body slam, then maybe you can say Rock/Cena was a bigger Main-Event.


    Or you know, the torch that got carried for 25 years all the way to Cena is still as good as the day it was made.



    After Hogan beat Andre the Giant, the WWF was solidified as the best wrestling promotion in the world. Everyone wanted a piece of Hogan in Andre, the WWF expanded and became an international business thanks to Hogan/Andre.

    Rock/Hogan didn't have that same effect the least bit. After beating Hogan, Rock went on with being a bad ass, he was. Nothing changed, Rock didn't become a bigger star, he was still Rock. And the year later, when Rock beat Stone Cold, nothing changed for either of them. The WWF/E didn't grow any larger or any smaller. It didn't provide the long term ramifications that Hogan/Andre did. So why would Cena/Rock be any different?

    -------------



    So you're honestly going to throw away everything Hogan has done in his career that brought Professional Wrestling into main-stream media simply for wrestling way past his prime?



    Which is the same thing people thought when Rock beat Hogan. And then a year later thought the same thing when Rock beat Stone Cold. These matches are where they are because of the star power they shared. Not for the actual match itself. Hogan and Andre made their moment and created their legacy at Wrestlemania III. Wrestlemania 29 will simply be a celebration of the twilight years of Dwayne Johnson.


    Of course this match itself will be good technical wise. But unless all those weights Rock is lifting is making his match at Mania bigger than Mania 3, you are sadly mistaken.



    I'm sure they will, but the question is if Rock/Cena is bigger than Hogan/Andre. And unless this Wrestlemania is picked up by alien races and creates a interplanetary fan base, then their is no way Rock/Cena can be bigger than Andre/Hogan.


    Uh, what? So if you give Rock/Cena a whole year to build up a match it will be epic. But if you make it two years? That goes right out the window?




    You obviously didn't watch the Wrestlemania match between Andre/Hogan. Which is fine, considering it was 20 something years ago. But if you did your research and actually watch the match, you would understand the story that Hogan and Andre told in their match. It was Hogan, someone who everyone thought was unbeatable. The real American was finally at risk of losing his WWF title. To the eighth wonder of the world, Andre the Giant. The match itself went on with Andre beating down Hulk and quelling every hope Hogan had beating Andre. Then Hulk gathered the power from all his Hulkamaniacs and gathered his strength to pick up the giant, and slam him straight on his back, then perform his signature leg drop.

    The body slam was symbolic, that no matter what the odds, no matter the foe, anything can be achieved if you follow the righteous path and keep the fans behind you. It captured a national audience, and still to this day, Hogan/Andre is the perfect example of Wrestlemania, with the only thing to come close is Undertakers streak.




    It matters because that Body slam tore the roof off the Silver dome in Louisiana. That body slammed caused massive tremors that caused a large demand in Professional wrestling and the WWF. Only if Cena gives Rock a Attitude Adjustment off the top of the Sun Life Stadium, it will be close to impossible to top that and capture a moment for the next Wrestlemania's to come.


    And then we would still be having the same discussion. Just with the stars switched around. That would be like saying 2 x 3 = 6 isn't the same as 3 x 2 = 6.






    Wasn't the gimmick that gave everyone a reason to love The Rock? I love The Rock. I grew up one of his biggest fans. But I could care less for Dwayne Johnson. Dwayne Johnson just walks into Monday Night Raw and demands the Main-Event for next years Wrestlemania because he has beef with John Cena. If this was Cena vs Dwayne Johnson, it would sell less tickets, and would be less of a draw. Because no one wants to see Dwayne Johnson, they get plenty of time to watch him in The Game Plan and the Tooth Fairy prance around in Tutus. They want The Rock. And I have yet to see the same Rocky I cheered for when I was a wee little Pancake.




    Great, Cena gets the 2% of the fanbase that chooses to boo him because he isn't as edgy as Rock. Simply because Dwayne forgot how to be Rock again. How does that add up to making their match any better than Hogan/Andre ? And what happens 6 months after Wrestlemania 28? Cena goes back to getting the ire of the IWC because he is still his fruity pebbles, Rise Above Hate gimmick. The WWE will continue being the number one wrestling promotion in the WWE. And Rock will go back to wearing dresses for Disney.






    Oh that was your goal? I thought it was being the first one in the Losers bracket. :p


    Neither Cena or Rock know what it is like to push a wrestling company into a Million dollar business. Hogan and Andre had to give an amazing performance our they would be selling fish out of a van with Eric Bischoff. Without Hogan and Andre's epic battle, their wouldn't be a Wrestlemania 28, their wouldn't be a Rock, their wouldn't be Cena, and their most likely wouldn't be a WWE.

    This is my closing statement. Best of luck to yeah CP Munk. You're my bro, win or lose.
     
    #8
  9. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    Here I go again on my own. I just had the lovely experience of watching Raw, I wasn't planning on it, but yeah. Let's get this show finished.

    You say, when "Cena beats Rock". How do you know this? Do you live in next Monday, having already found the results for Wrestlemania and enjoyed them? How was the match Pancake, please tell me. OH WAIT, it's not here yet. You don't know Cena's gonna beat The Rock. This could all end up with Rock beating Cena, thus truly proving that he is better than him and this could all go in a different way. Not once have I really looked at this as "Passing the torch". Granted, there's a huge rub coming from The Rock onto Cena what with them fighting each other in a Wrestlemania match, but I've never seen this as Cena beating Rock. Maybe he's there to kick ass and beat this fruity pebble into next week. You can predict a result, but you can never know what's happening until... well until it happens. Maybe Rock beats Cena and Cena takes a look at himself and all of this leads into some kind of personality dialysis and Mr. Fruity Pebble becomes something new. Maybe this match could lead to the biggest change of character you've ever seen eh? Maybe THAT's what makes it so damn interesting, not that it isn't already.

    In all honesty, I can admit that when this match was announced, I couldn't have cared less about it, but now...a few months back I was finally drawn into it, cheering for John Cena? Well fuck my ass and call me a bitch, I'm cheering on a guy who I couldn't stand? If it's been able to do that, these guys have been doing something right. It's led me into believing that I will be watching the greatest Wrestlemania Main Event in history...and I will be. So will you and so will everybody else watching it. Don't doubt it because it's right. You might not want to admit, but every person out there is thinking it. What if Cena gets hit with 3 Rock Bottoms and still manages to kick out? Or, has anyone ever survived a 2nd Attitude Adjustment? Could The Rock spend a few minutes in the STF, only to manage to get to the ropes and break it up? Maybe one man uses the others finishing move to end the match & get the win. All these moments can spark a reaction in a crowd and they will, they will only add to making this great.


    I saw The Hunger Games & Battle Royale. I've seen 13 Going On 30 & 17 Again. I liked them all. Screw you.



    His name is Terry Gene Bollea. Motherfucking doesn't even come into it. And I can guarantee you Hogan wasn't scared of the finish. I've read in multiple books, mainly Bret Hart's, that Andre The Giant was one of the sweetest guys they ever knew before he died, so there was no way it was gonna be stunted.

    I know this in a few ways. Cena, in my eyes evokes emotion like no other superstar in WWE history. I know that once he makes his entrance, I'll be hanging on every move in the hope that he kicks the shit out of Rocky & wins this match. That's another thing that goes towards making a match, emotion. If Cena wins and finally the crowd are on his side, I'd guarantee a tear or two. How about a handshake? That would either go down badly or blow the (figurative) roof off. There's a huge list of little things that I have in my head that could just blow this one into history as being the most memorable thing anybody's ever watched in the history of Wrestling.

    There will be a story. The personal animosity (I love that word) between these men, I'm even struggling to tell what's real and what's on a script. I think we're at the point where none of this is typed onto paper, this is all in the minds of Cena & Rock. It's already been an amazing match and they haven't fought. They're firing this up to 500% and there's nothing you can do about it.

    Is it? Tell me more. Wait, you can't.



    We're not talking Rock/Hogan, we're talking Rock/Cena & Hogan/Andre. Look up, I've explained that all these personal verbal attacks from both men have added to this. I won't repeat myself.

    -------------





    Not me, but a lot of people have done so.



    Don't sound so confident there Mr. P. We've not celebrated anything yet and this could go either way.


    I am? Rock lifting weight isn't gonna make Cena any heavier, but you're focusing on one bodyslam way too much. What about the rest of the match, remember that? Or when you mention Hogan/Andre, do you just go... "BODYSLAM" & that's that?


    Of course there is. The millions (and millions, pun fucking intended) will be watching this and I predict record Wrestlemania buys. Now obviously, WM3 was a long while back, but still brought in over 850,000 buys. Last year, we had over 1 million.

    WrestleMania 23 - 1,250,000 (Highest Buyrate Record)
    WrestleMania XXIV - 1,041,000
    WrestleMania XXV - 960,000
    WrestleMania XXVI - 885,000
    WrestleMania XXVII - 1,042,000

    There's the past 5 years when it comes to WM Buyrates. Three of them are over 1 million. Wrestlemania 23 leads last year by 200,000 and I think this year, we're surpassing that completely for one reason. Rock/Cena. You don't wanna miss it, do you? You're buying Wrestlemania and you're buying it for this reason, don't deny it. I know I am.

    If it's meant to come to an end this year, it's going to be epic. But if we got a sloppy ending, I grant you, it won't beat Hogan/Andre. I for one, don't believe we're gonna get an interrupted ending, or a DQ finish, but one man going clean over the other.


    I've seen it. Multiple times thank you very much. The second thing I've highlighted there, that's what the WWE are doing with Rock/Cena. They want it to be the biggest and best Wrestlemania match ever, you can tell because of;

    1. The date they announced it. A year in advance? It's gonna be big & we know it.
    2. It's Rock & Cena. Two massive legends in different ways. I think in the future, we'll be calling Cena above Hogan after everybody really realises what Cena has done. You're gonna miss him when he's gone, I know I will.


    It was a bodyslam. Once other's have shown they can do the same thing, it was less significant. It was the defining moment... IN THAT MATCH. Oh & in response to the other thing about Hulk getting the power from his Hulkamaniacs, I hate that. The "Hulk up" thing? Stupid. We're not going to see THAT on Sunday night, that's a guarantee. Yes, we may have seen the obvious Super Cena thing before, but he's up against a true opponent in Rocky.

    It isn't, the numbers are in different positions.


    2%? In the words of The Miz, really? It's a LOAD more than 2%. So many people boo Cena now we could almost call it 50/50. Let's see him turn everyone into a Cena fan on that night by proving he's the best, or have everyone cheer him because he put up everything, put all this emotion into it & maybe didn't come out on top. If The Rock & Cena were best buddies or something, this could've been like Ric Flair vs HBK, with the "I'm sorry, I love you" moment, but it isn't. This is "I'm gonna kick your ass" all over the place, whilst showing everyone that we're the best when it comes to putting on a show. Cena is a valuable commodity, more than possibly anyone else. This is why we're looking at the best match in Wrestlemania history. It's because one of the men in it is the most dedicated man in all of sports entertainment, who will put everything in has into this match even if it means killing him.



    No, I'm not you.

    They might not know what it's like, but Cena sure knows how to keep a wrestling business going as a "Million Dollar" business. As I've just mentioned, he busts his ass more than anyone else has done. Ever. I have to doubt your last sentence because... it might've been great, but Hogan/Andre didn't create your "WWE/Rock/Cena", but the business did. Hogan/Andre might've kicked it in the backside a little bit, but come Sunday, John Cena & The Rock are bringing this to a whole new level.

    The level of the greatest match in Wrestlemania history.

    With that, I rest my case.

    All the best Pancake, you've done yourself proud. Judges, do your worst.
     
    #9
  10. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Nice job, gentlemen. That concludes this bracket's first-round debate.

    Judging may commence, immediately.
     
    #10
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  11. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    Clarity- I'm going with Pancake. I understood Munk's general focus, but Pancake made his arguments more clear while having a better opener and closer.

    Punctuality- Pancake. He was quicker to the draw.

    Informative- CP Munk. He brought the facts and the numbers.

    Persuasion- Pancake. His closing statement really drove the point home and Munk didn't really have anything to disprove it. I'm a huge Cena mark so it would seem that swaying me toward him would be an easy task, but Munk never did so.

    Nate scores it Pancake 4, Munk 1.
     
    #11
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  12. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Clarity of debate - Neither man was more clearer than the other so I guess I'll just give this point to Pancake.

    Punctuality - Pancake was able to respond a little bit faster and keep the debate going so he'll get the point here.

    Informative - I thought that CP Munk did a good job here. He brought in things like buyrates for Wrestlemania which definitely helped him here.

    Persuasion - Ultimately, I felt that CP was able to better persuade me into believing that Rock vs. Cena was going to be the bigger main event. Pancake told us that match wouldn't have the same effect that Hogan/Andre did and I don't think you did a good job at all of even explaining what effect that was and how it's a much bigger main event. Also, you didn't even bring in vital information that could have really helped you such as the attendance record WM 3 had. Has either Rock or Cena been able to draw 93,000+ fans into any arena or stadium at one point or another? Nope. But you didn't even mention that. Furthermore, you mentioned that had Andre/Hogan bombed then that would've been the end of WM and even then you didn't elaborate on that. Very disappointing, because although it was the harder side in my opinion since we've seen many more better main events you could've have still used a lot of information that would've made anyone believe otherwise.

    CP: 3 Points, Pancake: 2 Points.
     
    #12
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  13. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity - Went with Pancake. Nicely presented, could be better though, and got his point across nicely.

    Point - Pancake

    Punctuality - I'll listen to Nate and ST.

    Point - Pancake

    Informative - Munk brought in numbers. Honestly I'm not exactly sure what buyrates for the last few years are supposed to mean in comparison to this year. But it was more information than Pancake to me.

    Point - CP Munk

    Persuasion - First off I have to address this because it is bugging the crap out of me, but I'll keep it simple and not be a dick.

    Did you watch Money in the Bank last year? CM Punk did it! This question would've been better suited as "Can the Rock potentially survive two AAs?".

    As I'm reading through this I just keep thinking that you can't argue how big Hogan/Andre was. What it did for the business in the '80s, what it did to add to the legend that was Hulkamania. Shit this feud went on for another year for crying out loud, but it's that match at WM III in '87 that gets the praise for elevating the WWF and legitimately being larger than life.

    Even with that in the back of my mind, Pancake had it going in that regard. He kept his position firm. Munk tried. I'll commend him for even taking the Cena/Rock position in the first place. But the argument just didn't do a thing for me. Didn't budge to even go on the fence. A good argument will get me and other judges on the fence at the very least.

    Points - Pancake

    CH David scores this Pancake 4, CP Munk 1.
     
    #13
  14. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Clarity: There was a shift in Munk's argument/main focus, going from "Once in a Lifetime" to "After Sunday it WILL be the biggest main event ever". That won Pancake the point for me, combined with his own clarity of course.

    Punctuality: Pancake was faster, pure and simple.

    Informative: Munk wins this one for the WrestleMania buyrates.

    Persuasion: It was interesting, I thought both made good arguments. I thought both made interesting points. I thought both could've done a bit better, but ultimately I'm going to award this point to CP Munk. Why? Because I felt like Pancake just didn't really get across the importance of Hogan/Andre, as SavageTaker said. He just kept repeating Hogan's name, hoping it would mean something. Ultimately it does, but not anywhere near as much as Rock/Cena.

    FunKay Scores It: CP Munk: 3, Pancake: 2
     
    #14
  15. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Pancake is the winner of this round with a score of 12 to 8. He moves onto Winner's Bracket #14 in the next round.

    (CP Munk still has one more chance for redemption and will be moved to Loser's bracket #11.)
     
    #15
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