Why is it That its Only Former WWE Guys?

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by This Is My Name Thank You, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. This Is My Name Thank You

    This Is My Name Thank You Is a horrible poster.

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    Does TNA have no faith in their original wrestlers (superstars) to hold the World Heavy Weight Championship? It seems that this whole year the title has not been held by one original. It has been all former WWE guys to be holding that belt. Everyone besides Sting has to me he is a TNA original. The guys holding the belt this year have been,

    (1) Champion: Jeff Hardy
    Held Since: 10/10/10 (Bound for Glory PPV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- pin fall loss vs. Mr. Anderson (01/09/11 Genesis PPV)

    (2) Champion: Mr. Anderson
    Held Since: 01/09/11 (Genesis PPV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- Pin fall vs. Jeff Hardy (02/03/11 Impact TV)
    -- lost vs. Jeff Hardy in ladder match (02/13/11 Against All Odds PPV)

    (3) Champion: Jeff Hardy
    Held Since: 02/13/11 (Against All Odds PPV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- Pin fall vs. Rob Van Dam (02/17/11 Impact TV)
    -- Pin fall loss vs. Sting (03/03/11 Impact TV)

    (4) Champion: Sting
    Held Since: 03/03/11 (Impact TV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- Pin fall vs. Jeff Hardy (03/13/11 Victory Road PPV)
    -- Pin fall vs. RVD and Anderson (04/17/11 Lockdown PPV)
    -- Pin fall vs. Matt Hardy (04/21/11 Impact TV)
    -- Pin fall vs. RVD (05/15/11 Sacrifice PPV)
    -- Pin fall loss vs. Mr. Anderson (06/12/11 Slammiversary PPV)

    (5) Champion: Mr. Anderson
    Held Since: 06/12/11 (Slammiversary PPV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- pin fall loss vs. Sting (07/14/11 Impact TV)

    (6) Champion: Sting
    Held Since: 07/14/11 (Impact TV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- Pin fall loss vs. Kurt Angle (08/07/11 Hardcore Justice PPV)

    (7) Current Champion: Kurt Angle
    Held Since: 08/07/11 (Hardcore Justice PPV)
    2011 TV/PPV title defenses:
    -- Pin fall vs. Sting (09/01/11 Impact TV)
    -- Vs. Mr. Anderson (09/08/11 Impact TV)
    and not one defense has even been from a TNA original member. Now I have a few questions to ask you and they are:

    1) Do you think ratings would increase if a TNA original was to hold the strap.

    2) Do you think that TNA is doing the right thing by just giving former WWE guys only the title?

    3) Would you rather an original hold the title or a former WWE guy?

    Note, I am not a tna hater; this is something that has just been on my mind as of late. Please discuss.
     
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  2. Kcirdor

    Kcirdor Dark Match Winner

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    Sting is no TNA original.

    Ratings will only grow when they establish good story lines that are interesting.

    Its fine that they are giving the belt to their most popular characters.

    Im sure once they establish a "tna orginal" (like AJ styles) in the spot light position they will take the belt. I doubt it will make any difference in ratings since people would have to care about the champions and if no one is watching then no one cares.
     
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  3. GameOver

    GameOver Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    TNA originals have held the straps and ratings didn't change one bit.
    Ratings have increased with the use of WWE/WCW leftovers not TNA originals

    Who cares who holds the titles, aslong as the show is good, the stories are compelling, the booking is logical and continuous and the entertainment is there. That's the issue, not who's champion and where they are from

    AJ has held the title numerous times and did it help? answer no.

    face it, WWE/WCW guys know how to work, they've had to perform infront of millions of people or atleast a shitload more in live attendance then TNA original performers have EVER had to perform infront of, they may not be great but they are reliable if they've been through the system and made it to the top. The others are no different then anyone else they either entertain or they suck.

    as for do i think ratings would rise = absolutely not. The problem is beyond that, there may be a short term benefit but overall it's not gonna change that dramatically
    now i would mark out if Robert Roode had won singles gold, as much as i repsect Beer Money and think they and MCMG are the only decent tag teams in WWE/TNA atm and in the immediate past, Roode is too good for tag, he shoulda been a singles star along time ago and Storm can still carry himself as an upper midcarder.
     
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  4. GameOver

    GameOver Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    In the examples you've provided above, some of those matches already took place in WWE, so they already had an idea of what to do and how to work with each other.

    and Sting vs Kurt Angle was a rehash of what they had already done b4, that was just coming full circle. not to mention they claim Sting to be this Icon who's the greatest and so is Kurt Angle so that matchup is logical. 2 Icons 1 Title
     
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  5. The Hardcore Kid

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    Sting has been with TNA since 2003, less than a year after TNA started. How is he not considered a "TNA Original?" Because he gained fame in WCW? I guess, but he has still certainly paid his dues in TNA and doesn't get the belt just because of who he is, which I'm not sure you can say the same about Jeff Hardy.

    It's all about ratings, though. More people are going to be interested in what Jeff Hardy or Kurt Angle are doing post-WWE than they are gonna be in people they don't recognize. It's pretty simple. It's way harder to build a wrestler into a superstar than it is just to cash in on the name-value of established stars.
     
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  6. Syd Liberty

    Syd Liberty Dark Match Jobber

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    TNA can't be saved, no matter who has the title. You might as well give it to the guys who might get you in TMZ and get some attention.
     
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  7. UFOcalling

    UFOcalling Master of the Scorpion Death Lock

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    I understand your (the OP's) point, and you're definitely NOT the first to notice this trend. I think TNA just does what they can with the talent on their roster. As others have already pointed out, TNA has put the strap on AJ and Joe in the past...wasn't AJ's last title reign the longest in TNA's history as well? I could be wrong on that (maybe it's just since they switched from the NWA title to the TNA title), but I thought he was.

    IMHO -- Hardy, Anderson, Sting and Angle were just "the right guys for the job" at the time of their title wins. Maybe not Anderson as much as the others, just because I feel that both of his reigns were rushed -- and lackluster....but that's beside the point. Another view is that Anderson never held a World Title in the WWE, so in a way that was a TNA first.

    Besides AJ Styles, I really don't see any other "TNA originals" even being worthy of holding the belt at this point in time. Even AJ (IMO) would take a bit of building (his character) before they could put the strap back on him.

    Obviously the BFG series will put some new blood into the Main Event scene (hopefully Storm or Roode, at least IMHO). Those two would qualify as "TNA Originals", yes? The only other guy at this point in time I could see with the belt would be Matt Morgan...but I think it would be silly to put the title on him without a decent buildup of at least a few months. It looked like TNA was building Crimson up to win the BFG series, but now he's out. Gunner also has a shot in the semi-finals. The four guys in the BFG finals have never held a World Championship before (at least in singles competition), so we'll get a new guy in the Main Event scene no matter what. Hopefully who ever wins will be able to stay on that level, even if they don't win the title (and not drop back down into midcard obscurity). Who knows though? That's just my hope.

    I think you're putting too much emphasis on the World Title picture being "all WWE guys". With TNA's 2011 roster, Anderson, Angle, Hardy and Sting were the "best guys for the job" (again, IMHO) at the time of their title wins. Would I like to see guys like James Storm, Bobby Roode, Austin Aries, Matt Morgan, Crimson, Gunner and Christopher Daniels eventually get a shot at (if not hold) the TNA WHC? You're damn right I would...hopefully TNA will eventually get them there...but right now just might not be "their time". All of those guys need a little more time and character development before they could be seen as a credible champ (some WAAAAAAAY more than others).

    Just sit tight, we just might see a "TNA Original" injected into the TNA Main Event scene by Bound for Glory this year. In fact, I think there's a pretty damn good chance that we will. I don't see Bully Ray winning the BFG tournament, as I think we'll probably see Ray vs. Anderson at BFG this year. I don't know for sure, but I'd wager the farm against Bully Ray winning the tournament. That only leaves three possible "TNA Originals" to get the title shot, in Roode, Storm and Gunner. Like I said before: sit tight, I have a feeling it will be one of those three and NOT Bully Ray in the Main Event at BFG. Even if the BFG Tournament winner doesn't win the title at BFG (which I think they will, because of the legal trouble going on with Angle right now...I don't think TNA will keep their title on Angle for much longer, but you never know), we'll still get a fresh face in the Main Event scene. Like I said before, my hope is that they'll be able to stay at the top of the card and not drop back down to midcard obscurity. God, I hope it isn't Bully Ray, even though he has been doing a great job as of late. I'd just rather see the winner be either Roode or Storm. In fact, I'd love to see those two in the BFG Tournament finals...fighting each other for a chance at the World Title.
     
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  8. doubles87

    doubles87 Dark Match Jobber

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    I too believe Roode is way overdue for a TNA World Title Run, and I would say give him a good 8 months to a year as champ too. He can run many good feuds I'm sure. He better win the Bound for Glory Series.

    The issue that people keep bringing up with ratings; I don't think this is going to change for a while. Has WWE's ratings changed much in the last 6 or 12 months? (I'm actually not sure, but I don't think it has). The wrestling industry is not as popular as a whole I guess.

    I don't see an issue with giving ex-WWE competitors the title but only after they make them their own (ex Anderson, kinda became their own hash of himself)
     
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  9. JaDoE05

    JaDoE05 Dark Match Jobber

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    Sting didn't work full-time until 06. Also he came in at the top so i don't see how he "paid his dues" in TNA. He's not an original.
     
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  10. pessimism101

    pessimism101 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    TNA probably thinks that from a business standpoint, giving the TNA title to someone who has already established a fanbase in WWE and whose fans want to see that person as champion, they'll increase ratings and PPV buys. Or, it could also be that in order for TNA to sign said ex-WWE superstars, a title reign is promised and/or guarenteed in a contract to make up for the significant pay decrease the wrestlers will get.

    Of course, it's more likely that Dixie Carter is taking advice from Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan, and Vince Russo who are obviously trying to make TNA the new WCW, so she's allowing former WWE guys to hold the titles because that's what WCW did. Obviously she doesn't know her pro wrestling history..
     
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  11. Brahma Bull

    Brahma Bull Getting Noticed By Management

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    You know why. The wwe guys draw, the originals dont. easy as that. Hardy was one of the biggest draws for the wwe before he left, angle is one of wwe's best and a freaking gold medalist, anderson (while he never held the big one) was one of the most charasmatic guys in the wwe. These 3 are the biggest names in tna (besides sting of course) of course they are going to be feuding for the belt. The only guy who could be champ is aj styles, but that is only because tna fans love that he is one of theirs. If he went to the wwe, he would be around the same level as kofi. Samoa Joe has been a joke for awhile now, and he is just annoying now. And seriously people, enough with the roode love. They have tried 3 times to make him a main eventer. First with trying to find who his manager would be, then winning against a returning face jarrett, and finally beating an almost debuting booker t. The guy just cant get over on his own, but that is not a bad thing. Bear money is one of the best tag teams ever, and they dont need to be broken up. If they build up a legit guy then maybe, but until then it will just be the wwe "rejects."
     
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  12. TWJC: The Beginning

    TWJC: The Beginning Royal Rumble Winner

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    It's drawing ability.

    Being in the WWE, means more people know you. More people knowing you, means more people watch when you're on. AJ Styles is not a draw. Christopher Daniels is not a draw.

    They should mix it together more. Styles vs Angle. That lets people know that Styles is on Angle's level. However, never have a pure TNA vs TNA title feud because then less people care about it and it just looks like the Texas League Championship.
     
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  13. Dalek Rising

    Dalek Rising EXTERMINAAAATE!!!

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    Maybe because almost every wrestler except for a handful, has been in the WWE at one point. Even AJ Styles. Who are the TNA originals? Beer Money (tag team), MCMG (tag team), Mexican America (tag team), Eric Young (TV champ), Sting (already has been champ this year), Abyss, Crimson, Kaz, Gunner, Murphy, Daniels, Rob Terry, Samoa Joe. Abyss and Samoa Joe are past champions. Gunner, Murphy, Daniels, and Terry are not champion material. That leaves Kaz and Crimson. So that's 2 guys that are TNA originals that have not been in the WWE (to my knowledge) and are somewhat championship material. Now, can you build the show around them? Probably not. You can with Hardy, Sting, Anderson, and Angle, hence, why they've been TNA world champions this year.
     
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  14. Foshinzo

    Foshinzo Mrs. Foley's Baby Boy

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    Hate to jump on this bandwagon, but Sting might as well just be an old WWE guy. I mean, his best times were against other big WWE guys in other promotions. It seems to me like ever since 1996 his whole career has been based around fighting guys who made it big in WWE. He battled some others along the way and especially at the end of WCW, but Sting might as well just be an old WWE guy. WWE is all that remains from that era, having also absorbed all the tapes and records of ECW and WCW, so it's kind of like that legacy has become one with WWE.

    Sting will more than likely never wrestle in the WWE, but when they come calling to give him a spot in the HOF, he'll probably take it. I could also see Flair inducting him, or something like that.

    With that being said, it's just a flaw in TNA's philosophy. It's easier to sell the name of someone when it's already been made notable in other companies. I completely agree that this is a big problem for TNA. It really does just make you look minor league and almost like you openly admit you're the minor league. "Oh, we book their wash-ups as our champion because it's easier than actually booking good stories to build up our homegrown guys." One thing people kill WWE on is that they never book stars who made it big in other places immediately to the top, mostly because people say it ruined the Invasion. Yes, that was a large problem with the Invasion and they lost a lot of money because of it, but other times Vince knew exactly what he was doing. Instead of telling great stories and giving us immediate dream match satisfaction, he focuses on image; these guys can't hang with our guys. It's so annoying to fans and they do lose money on it, but it helps in the long run because that star can always build their way back up to the top and it makes WWE look like their better than wherever that star came from. Why watch WCW when their guys can't beat WWF's guys? TNA should probably do this more often, I think. Maybe if AJ had whooped Jeff Hardy and Mr. Anderson when they first came in, it would have made AJ look major league and bad ass. This is of course just my opinion, but I think for a fledgling company like TNA, they need all the positive image they can get.
     
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  15. The 1-2-3 Killam

    The 1-2-3 Killam Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    WWE gets ratings around 3.0

    TNA gets ratings around 1.0

    So, maybe if you take a WWE wrestler and make him your TNA champion, the ratings will go up? That's the thought that goes through TNA's mind every single time they acquire a WWE drop-out. It's not that they have no faith in their own stars. They've pushed AJ Styles and Samoa Joe to the moon and back! But WWE wrestlers have a larger audience and their name means more. AJ is the best wrestler on the planet currently in his prime, but when your ratings are around 1.0 or lower on a weekly basis, that's not doing much for you.

    If it were up to me, they'd stop hiring ex-WWE talents and work with what they have. But it's not. No matter how many things they try the ratings aren't going anywhere. But it doesn't matter. They're still going to try the same thing over and over again.
     
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  16. xxxdaniel_ariesxxx

    xxxdaniel_ariesxxx Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Its not just this last year. ever since TNA was founded in June of 2002 (as NWA: TNA) look at who all has been their World Champions;

    NWA World Championship Era:
    Ken Shamrock
    Ron "The Truth" Killings
    Jeff Jarrett
    AJ Styles
    Raven
    Rhino
    Sting
    Abyss
    Christian Cage

    TNA World Championship Era:
    Kurt Angle
    Samoa Joe
    Mick Foley
    Rob Van Dam
    Jeff Hardy
    Mr. Anderson

    and out of 15 different people to hold the title only 3 hadn't previously been stars in WWE or WCW (okay, 3.5, because honestly all Truth had been in WWE before that was K-Kwick, the Road Dogg's lacky, yet they STILL tried to play off that little sliver of "fame" by calling him K-Krush when TNA first started).

    and I can't imagine TNA being any worse off if they based their product around homegrown talent while just bringing in big names for the sole purpose of putting over that talent. when TNA first got on Spike who were their top stars? Jeff Jarrett, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels and Americas Most Wanted (Chris Harris and James Storm).

    And what did they do? instead of growing those stars into their own superstars they started bringing in guys who either hadn't been relevant in eight years or wanted a break from the WWE schedule. did their ratings suddenly make a huge, sustained improvement? nope. did their PPVs start getting more buys that continued to grow? nope. having big names in the top spots doesn't mean shit if the storylines suck. end of story.

    And its really sad that 3 of the last 4 champions had been nothing but a lacky for a 58 year old man who can barley walk.
     
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  17. mdj2010

    mdj2010 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    To be honest, I think the heavyweight title angles they have run have indicated their lack of confidence in their own angles. All of them are rehashes of angkles run before and hoping to capture the nostalgia of the wrestling fans. The angles put ou by TNA are given such little support and ussually turned into a confusing mess within a month. I still watch TNA, but have found it painful for a good two years now. I wish I could say I knew what the solution is for the company, but you can't blame them for utilising star names when they clearly lack the confidence and time to push their own guys into that top spot.
     
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  18. cmpunk4lyfe

    cmpunk4lyfe Dark Match Jobber

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    So are we forgetting that aj styles is a tna original and he had the strap???
     
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  19. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    Does TNA not have all that much faith in original, homegrown stars being the TNA World Heavyweight Champion? From an overall perspective, I think the answer is yes. I think it's an indicator that TNA isn't really all that comfortable with their own ability to create legit main event level stars on a regular basis. That doesn't mean that they've not got talent on their roster that's not capable of doing the job, however.

    I can understand the idea of signing/using so many well known wrestlers to have been big stars in WCW & WWE, at least for so long until you've really gotten your company build up and it's name put out there. For me, however, that time has long since passed by. When it comes to the notion that the WWE/WCW guys are a bigger draw, I don't think that's true anymore. It's a belief/hypothesis that seems sound when you look at it but it's just not how it actually is.

    Since 2007, TNA has been consistently drawing in the low 1s as far as ratings go and that hasn't changed even with all the huge, marquee stars that they've signed to their roster from then up until now. Even with the addition of legends like Hulk Hogan & Sting or more modern superstars like Kurt Angle & RVD, there's been no change in the numbers that TNA draws on television, at live events or, allegedly, ppv buys. Oh sure, TNA will pop a rating now and then that will put them up into the upper 1.2s or 1.3 area but it never lasts. TNA would be drawing the same numbers with a far less expensive roster, less former WWE and/or WCW wrestlers and homegrown talent in the main event picture. I've seen nothing whatsoever that would really suggest otherwise. TNA took the title off of AJ Styles and put it on RVD but the numbers didn't go anywhere. There wasn't this upsurge in viewership or house shows, nor did it happen when they put the title on Anderson, Hardy or back on Sting & Angle.
     
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  20. MizFitAwesome

    MizFitAwesome Occasional Pre-Show

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    So by definition TNA is a virus, they take something when it is good, consume it and then lower it when it is no longer of use.
    All TNA Originals should seek employment elsewhere because they will always be nothing but the support cast for when the next new 'Flavor of the Month'. gets signed.
    What's sad is you have a convicted drug trafficker getting ready to come back and get airtime at the expense of the people that loyally supported the company from the beginning. Despite what the marks say, no one would be happy if they put so many years in their job, only to be instantly demoted because the company they work for hired a person with less ability and put that person above them...
     
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  21. This Is My Name Thank You

    This Is My Name Thank You Is a horrible poster.

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    I know about AJ man, I am just talking about this year. This whole year has been about former WWE guys. Its been close to 10 months with not one true TNA guy holding the belt.

    Yes I know some of them were in the E at one time or another. But they were jobbed out and left asap. What I am saying is guys who were the main focial point of TNA were pushed aside for the likes of Angle, Sting, Hardy, and Anderson. Sure these guys were "stars" proforming in front of 9,000+ fans vs what TNA does but, they haven't done nothing for raitings or ppv buys. TNA spent all this time trying to build up stars of there own and they get shoved aside by guys who come into TNA after 90 days of not being in the E. Hell, I am already tired of Mickie holding the strap as I wish Madyson Rayne would come back and take it from her. Same with Kendrick.

    TNA had focus on Joe, Abyss, Aj, Daniels, AMW (at the time) the whole X division, and now they lost that focus. Joe could of been a huge selling machine for TNA, but they go with others and he is left being heel, face, heel, whatever. Abyss was a monster and now he is being ruined by Hogan becuase he saw something in him. We fans saw a monster who wanted him to be a monster. Not what he is now, which is a lot of work to be credible again.

    I think TNA lost faith in their guys. Whos fault it is I don't truly know. I just wish TNA would give the guys the chance they deserve. Raitings may not go up as much but a fresh idea could peek intrest in others to get them to watch. Maybe Heyman is right to many old stars not enough home grown. I don't know how to run a business but I hope change comes soon.
     
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  22. acstylez

    acstylez Anything Can Happen

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    To what you said about Aj styles being the champ and not helping. That's true, but how strongly was he booked? He's never had a rein were he was allowed to look like the champ. In fact, they gave him a character change in the middle of his title rein, and it was new to him, so it didn't work.
     
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  23. This Is My Name Thank You

    This Is My Name Thank You Is a horrible poster.

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    Very true he was booked really weak in my eyes. I think things can turn around for TNA. I hope they realize what they have done is pushing the new viewers away. I will watch TNA thorught out no matter how annoyed I get towards the product. Hopefully tonight is a good ppv. Even though I have zero intrest in the main event.
     
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  24. Dynamitekid2012

    Dynamitekid2012 Dark Match Winner

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    This complaining about TNA using former WWE guys is ridiculous!!!! I'm no TNA fan by any means, but do we have that short of memories these days?

    Fine then, WWE used ex-WCW guys and I'm going to start complaining about it.

    Steve Austin
    Triple H
    Kevin Nash
    Chris Benoit
    Eddie Guerrero
    Mick Foley
    Chris Jericho


    ... You're right though. I shouldn't have watched some of the greatest stars of all time while they were in WWE because they were originally ECW/WCW guys. Blahhhhh!!!!



    Look while I agree that they shouldn't simply give the strap to every guy that walks in to the company, most of these complaints are absolutely ridiculous. Certain guys are on a certain level, no offense to AJ Styles, but go ask someone on the street who he is... No one knows! While TNA is trying to reach a larger audience I think it's vital that the belt stays on someone people know and recognize. Do I think they could handle it better at times? Yes. However, acting as if this is some travesty and not a smart decision based on business is mind boggling!!!
     
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  25. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    Why is it that it matters? Do we need to look at the history of the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and point out that Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, Sid Vicious, Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner, etc. all held it — all of whom being "WWF guys"?

    I don't know how many times I have to say this — talent is talent, regardless of whether they worked prior to their current employment.
     
    #25

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