Who Had More Impact On Wrestling History; Kevin Nash Or Randy Savage?

[Makaveli31]

Without Hogan, the NWO wouldn't have lasted 3 years..probably wouldn't have lasted a year. Hogan was the piece that made the NWO the NWO. Nash and Hall were only big because fans recognized them as WWF guys. When that wore off, so did their impact. I remember periods in 1997 when Nash was gone for months at a time.

There is so much wrong I don't know where to begin. Hall and Nash were over because of the CHARISMA. Hell they are still OVER to THIS DAY! So NO their impact did not "wear off." Nash was a main even player in all the up until 2001. What the hell are you talking about?!? Yes the was gone. So what?!? It's not like people forgot about him. He still made appearances.

The NWO was amazing during these periods. Way better than it had been when the original three started it. What I remember is the NWO angle wasn't as enjoyable when Scott Hall was on hiatus.

It wasn't AS enjoyable but it was still enjoyable. The Wolfpack with Nash and Konnan was HOT and had some of the best interviews and promos ever. Dude I'm sorry you
missed out.

Remember when Hall and Nash kicked Hogan out at Wrestlemania 18? The NWO meant nothing at that point. So wrap your head around this dude. If Nash was so 'impactful' on his own, why did nobody give one shit about the NWO once Hogan was gone? And Scott Steiner should never have led the NWO. Scott Steiner was a low to mid card tag team specialist who they only pushed because he probably threatened somebody. The guy was a joke on the mic and in the ring once he joined the NWO. He's really somebody I'm surprised gets any mention. He ranks right up there with Stevie Ray and Horace Hogan in impact..

LOL you're talking about the WWE version of the "NWO"? LOLOLOL :mic drop:

 

[ilapierre]

Yes he was! Nash was the most over face for the majority of 1998, more so than Goldberg, DDP and even Sting. Sting was an upper midcarder at best who would occasionally get a lick of the upper echelon of main event status like he did in 1990 and 1997, but both times, his opponents drew much better than Sting did, whether it was prime Ric Flair or the nWo (especially Hogan).

Nobody really liked Goldberg's undefeated winning streak angle, Diamond Dallas Page isn't necessarily a top guy imo, Savage was pretty much finished as a prime-time performer and Sting had a drug addiction issue (which also almost cost him his marriage to Sue Borden) that played a big factor why he needed to lose to Hogan at Starrcade '97 and that was shortly a while before Sting was going to become a Born Again Christian in 1998 before he was to go off to complete a drug rehabilitation program by the end of the year so he would finally be free from the drug addictions to alcohol, painkillers and muscle relaxers. So Nash was the right call to be the most over babyface in 1998, and he needed to beat Goldberg and his epic winning streak at Starrcade '98 in order for the two warring nWo factions to be reunited into the nWo Wolfpac Elite.

Complain all you want about Nash's perceived supposed lack of impact, but he did more with his short-term prime impact than Savage did in any year. In other words, LBGetBack and Spidey, you two have nothing to continue on about. At least the likes of myself, THTRobTaylor and Makaveli31 have more experience in the Old School era than you two could ever hope to come close to our vast old school wrestling knowledge.

Out of touch with reality on all accounts. I'm more old school than the 3 you rhymed off (and I know 3 times the unrelated facts you regurgitate in each and every one of your rambling Scott Steiner-loving posts). Sting, Goldberg and Savage were way more over than Nash the entire year of 1998. Fact. Nash ONLY got big when he JOINED Randy against Hogan. He got 'big' because he joined 'Randy'. It was RANDY who was majorly over when he BEAT company FACE Sting for the world title. Watch the Nitro following Spring Stampede 1998. Those fans are going beserk for Randy in the ring..not Nash..Savage left 2 months later and the Wolfpack angle (with Nash as head face) tanked within a month or two. Nash regained mild popularity when he and Scott Hall mended fences that November. Then the Wolfpack gained popularity (because Hall, not Nash, was hugely over with fans). Nash was booked to beat Goldberg because Nash had convinced guys like Sullivan that he had gained some momentum (primarily because fans wanted to see the NWO reunited..and not because Nash on his own was popular). And Nash lost all of his popularity when he laid down for Hogan 2 weeks after Starrcade. Face it. Nash was just a big man who was in the right place at the right time. He really had no business in the world title picture.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Makaveli31 : I get the feeling that ilapierre doesn't even like guys like Nash and Steiner because they're not his cup of tea. He is letting his anti-Nash bias cloud his own personal judgment because of the intense disdain the IWC smarks have against guys like Nash and Steiner.

The nWo still was drawing ratings when Hall was on hiatus for multiple attempts to rehab himself of his alcohol addiction, Savage was out on hiatus to a Torn ACL from all these years of his fast-paced, high flying gameplay style taking a toll on him, and Hogan's novelty act as the ramblin' screaming Hollywood Hogan wore off by 1998. So instead of standing next to Hall and Nash which helped make Hogan look better than he actually was, Hogan has now had to stand next to Brian Adams and Vincent without Hall and Nash around, whereas Nash was the only consistent glue that keeps the nWo factions together, whether it's the Original nWo, nWo Wolfpac, nWo Elite and nWo 2000. Nash was there for the Wolfpac the whole time when Hall and Savage were on hiatus, and Hogan had next to nothing in the nWo B&W faction besides Scott Steiner, Scott Hall and a bunch of other scrubs. Nash had more overall impact in 1998 than Goldberg, DDP, Sting, Hogan, Hall and Savage, and if there was such a thing as WCW's Most Valuable Player award, I would have to give the nod to Nash for being the best overall babyface in WCW for the year of 1998.

iapierre has the nerve to act like Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash BOTH never had a prime in their wrestling careers, it's because as much as ilapierre likes to hype himself about how he's a WCW fanboy, ilapierre comes off to me like he's a WWF fanboy because he secretly likes the WWF scripted promos, and he seriously don't like them, all just because Nash and Steiner are much better on the mic than he gives them credit for. Nash and Steiner are good on the mic, WHEN a smart wrestling promoter doesn't make them do scripted promos. When you let them do free-range, freestyle shoot promos, it means a smart wrestling promoter knows they're using Nash and Steiner at the maximum at their best.

I have a feeling Kevin Nash and Scott Steiner are the two guys the IWC likes to crap on the most, because they like to look at those two like they're alphas who act like backstage cancers to wrestling companies when we have Hall, Hennig and Luger who are worse with drug issues and substance abuse issues, then there's successful alphas like Hogan, Savage, Flair, Bret, Goldberg, Austin, HBK and HHH who never have had to accumulate that much extreme disdain that's heaped onto Nash and Steiner. I seriously have no explanation for Scott Steiner's wrestling career, because of people like @ilapierre and the Botchamania people who like to ruin Scott to make him out like he never reached his full potential in terms of stardom, and then the same smarks like to throw torn quad jokes at Kevin Nash. The guy just had a serious, potentially career-ending injury that put him out for much of 2002, and if the quad jokes are the smarks' only weapon of defense they like to throw at Nash, then it just says a lot about their maturity level, or at least lacking in decent maturity.

 

[#tamale]

Kevin Nash's importance is really based more with what he did behind the scenes. Guaranteed contracts, Kliq guys forming an almost "union" like alliance, jumping ship while on top in the WWF (Randy Savage was only commentating by the time he left). Kevin Nash was a savvy wrestler who's one major impact in front of the cameras was the NWO.

Randy Savage is the complete opposite of what Kevin Nash was. Savage didn't really add anything of major value behind the scenes that Hulk Hogan did not already add, but in front of the cameras he was non-stop entertainment. Savage was also a major revenue source for the WWF.

So what it comes down to is which do you value more in wrestling. While Savage's impact from an entertainment factor was second to only Hulk Hogan in their time, Nash's impact has helped form some of the practices that has helped shaped what the WWE is today.

When you think about it, Nash and Hall had been off WWF TV for a while, with Nash's last act being to take the Tombstone

Ummm....his last televised act was taking a Superkick from Shawn Michaels at the end of April. He quickly debuted in early June.

Where Nash and Hall made the impact on the BUSINESS is one simple thing. Safe Harbour.

Forget the guaranteed contracts for a moment, Nash and Hall had something known as Safe Harbour and were the first to have it. That meant if WCW hired ANYONE or gave ANYONE a new deal that was bigger than theirs, they HAD to be given the same...automatically. When WCW were offering Bret 3m a year... that meant they were offering Hall and Nash 3m a year too... When Goldberg was getting 5m... so were they...

It was actually called Favored Nations, and it only kicked in because Scott Hall and Kevin Nash named their top 10 wrestlers in the world and if WCW hired any of those wrestlers for more money than either Scott or Kevin they would immediately get a bump in pay. Goldberg did not factor in that. Bret Hart did although he was the last one to affect the Favored Nation clause.

 

[ilapierre]

There is so much wrong I don't know where to begin. Hall and Nash were over because of the CHARISMA. Hell they are still OVER to THIS DAY! So NO their impact did not "wear off." Nash was a main even player in all the up until 2001. What the hell are you talking about?!? Yes the was gone. So what?!? It's not like people forgot about him. He still made appearances.



It wasn't AS enjoyable but it was still enjoyable. The Wolfpack with Nash and Konnan was HOT and had some of the best interviews and promos ever. Dude I'm sorry you
missed out.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what I said and you don't know where to begin because you're the one with no handle on wrestling history. I didn't miss out at all. You did. I was there and I've rewatched all the Nitros, Thunders and PPVs since. I could drop down the mic on morons like you all day. Hall was OVER because Hall had CHARISMA. Kevin Nash was a big tall scary looking dude who was not enjoyable to watch in a wrestling match. He just looked the part. His place was in a tag team with Scott Hall and as a bouncer for Hogan, Savage and whoever else above him on the NWO depth chart. The moment Nash entered the world title picture is the moment Nash lost almost all of his allure. It is the moment WCW started to tank. Nash had no business trading titles with Hogan, Sting, Savage, Flair and Goldberg. Guys like Eddie or Jericho and Benoit should have been elevated instead. Had Hall been a stable guy, he would have deserved a main event push before Nash because he was way more over and was much more enjoyable and believable in the ring. Oh and if you don't want to talk about the NWO in WWE let's look at the NWO with Hall, Nash and Hitman. How'd that do again?

Mic drop..

 

[LBGetBack]

Yes he was! Nash was the most over face for the majority of 1998, more so than Goldberg, DDP and even Sting. Sting was an upper midcarder at best who would occasionally get a lick of the upper echelon of main event status like he did in 1990 and 1997, but both times, his opponents drew much better than Sting did, whether it was prime Ric Flair or the nWo (especially Hogan).

Nobody really liked Goldberg's undefeated winning streak angle, Diamond Dallas Page isn't necessarily a top guy imo, Savage was pretty much finished as a prime-time performer and Sting had a drug addiction issue (which also almost cost him his marriage to Sue Borden) that played a big factor why he needed to lose to Hogan at Starrcade '97 and that was shortly a while before Sting was going to become a Born Again Christian in 1998 before he was to go off to complete a drug rehabilitation program by the end of the year so he would finally be free from the drug addictions to alcohol, painkillers and muscle relaxers. So Nash was the right call to be the most over babyface in 1998, and he needed to beat Goldberg and his epic winning streak at Starrcade '98 in order for the two warring nWo factions to be reunited into the nWo Wolfpac Elite.

Complain all you want about Nash's perceived supposed lack of impact, but he did more with his short-term prime impact than Savage did in any year. In other words, LBGetBack and Spidey, you two have nothing to continue on about. At least the likes of myself, THTRobTaylor and Makaveli31 have more experience in the Old School era than you two could ever hope to come close to our vast old school wrestling knowledge.

Incorrect. On basically everything. Impressive. Nash was not above Goldberg in 98, liar. Not even close. DDP and Sting were bigger too. Savage was too when he was around.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Kevin Nash's importance is really based more with what he did behind the scenes. Guaranteed contracts, Kliq guys forming an almost "union" like alliance, jumping ship while on top in the WWF (Randy Savage was only commentating by the time he left). Kevin Nash was a savvy wrestler who's one major impact in front of the cameras was the NWO.

Randy Savage is the complete opposite of what Kevin Nash was. Savage didn't really add anything of major value behind the scenes that Hulk Hogan did not already add, but in front of the cameras he was non-stop entertainment. Savage was also a major revenue source for the WWF.

So what it comes down to is which do you value more in wrestling. While Savage's impact from an entertainment factor was second to only Hulk Hogan in their time, Nash's impact has helped form some of the practices that has helped shaped what the WWE is today.



Ummm....his last televised act was taking a Superkick from Shawn Michaels at the end of April. He quickly debuted in early June.



It was actually called Favored Nations, and it only kicked in because Scott Hall and Kevin Nash named their top 10 wrestlers in the world and if WCW hired any of those wrestlers for more money than either Scott or Kevin they would immediately get a bump in pay. Goldberg did not factor in that. Bret Hart did although he was the last one to affect the Favored Nation clause.

I have to inform you that it was Lex Luger who was the first to actually pioneer the guaranteed contracts, long before Hall and Nash came along. Due to being a former NFL player with the Green Bay Packers in the early 1980s, Luger was the first wrestler to have a sports agent negotiating for guaranteed contracts, and also the first to teach his fellow peers how to NOT waste money in lieu of retirement savings.

Hall and Nash get most of the credit for the guaranteed contracts because of being more impactful names than Luger, plus WWE hasn't even mentioned Luger these days at all, let alone just one cameo appearance. Plus, the IWC like to rip on Nash, Steiner and Luger more so than the other big names like Hogan, Flair, Bret, Savage, HBK, HHH, Austin and Goldberg.

 

[ilapierre]

@Makaveli31 : I get the feeling that ilapierre doesn't even like guys like Nash and Steiner because they're not his cup of tea. He is letting his anti-Nash bias cloud his own personal judgment because of the intense disdain the IWC smarks have against guys like Nash and Steiner.

The nWo still was drawing ratings when Hall was on hiatus for multiple attempts to rehab himself of his alcohol addiction, Savage was out on hiatus to a Torn ACL from all these years of his fast-paced, high flying gameplay style taking a toll on him, and Hogan's novelty act as the ramblin' screaming Hollywood Hogan wore off by 1998. So instead of standing next to Hall and Nash which helped make Hogan look better than he actually was, Hogan has now had to stand next to Brian Adams and Vincent without Hall and Nash around, whereas Nash was the only consistent glue that keeps the nWo factions together, whether it's the Original nWo, nWo Wolfpac, nWo Elite and nWo 2000. Nash was there for the Wolfpac the whole time when Hall and Savage were on hiatus, and Hogan had next to nothing in the nWo B&W faction besides Scott Steiner, Scott Hall and a bunch of other scrubs. Nash had more overall impact in 1998 than Goldberg, DDP, Sting, Hogan, Hall and Savage, and if there was such a thing as WCW's Most Valuable Player award, I would have to give the nod to Nash for being the best overall babyface in WCW for the year of 1998.

iapierre has the nerve to act like Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash BOTH never had a prime in their wrestling careers, it's because as much as ilapierre likes to hype himself about how he's a WCW fanboy, ilapierre comes off to me like he's a WWF fanboy because he secretly likes the WWF scripted promos, and he seriously don't like them, all just because Nash and Steiner are much better on the mic than he gives them credit for. Nash and Steiner are good on the mic, WHEN a smart wrestling promoter doesn't make them do scripted promos. When you let them do free-range, freestyle shoot promos, it means a smart wrestling promoter knows they're using Nash and Steiner at the maximum at their best.

I have a feeling Kevin Nash and Scott Steiner are the two guys the IWC likes to crap on the most, because they like to look at those two like they're alphas who act like backstage cancers to wrestling companies when we have Hall, Hennig and Luger who are worse with drug issues and substance abuse issues, then there's successful alphas like Hogan, Savage, Flair, Bret, Goldberg, Austin, HBK and HHH who never have had to accumulate that much extreme disdain that's heaped onto Nash and Steiner. I seriously have no explanation for Scott Steiner's wrestling career, because of people like @ilapierre and the Botchamania people who like to ruin Scott to make him out like he never reached his full potential in terms of stardom, and then the same smarks like to throw torn quad jokes at Kevin Nash. The guy just had a serious, potentially career-ending injury that put him out for much of 2002, and if the quad jokes are the smarks' only weapon of defense they like to throw at Nash, then it just says a lot about their maturity level, or at least lacking in decent maturity.

Dude. I'm being objective. I enjoyed Nash at the time but he never ever came anywhere near Savage. And gabbing about Scott Steiner is like gabbing about the Big Bossman. He only matters if he for some fluke became your personal favourite. And while we're being objective, Scott Steiner had NOTHING on Kevin Nash. Steiner was a tag team guy with a good look and he could wrestle. He was a mid card wrestler like Jeff Jarrett who believed he should be main eventing. We saw how that Steiner experiment worked out in 2000. Your wrestling prime was the year 2000. Admit it. How else could you give two shits about Scott Steiner? My prime was 1988. I'm in a better position to be objective than you because I actually remember more than just the twilight of Randy Savage's career. That guy was already more impactful on wrestling in the territories during the mid 80s than Nash was with prime time TV cameras pointing at him..

 

[ilapierre]

The answer is BOTH affected the business, in many ways more than other wrestlers ever did.

Savage was the first guy to carry the WWF instead of Hogan, and he proved not only could it be done, but could be done with no perceivable drop in quality or business for having a "smaller" champion. While it was never a long term gig for him, Randy hit the markers set for him during those two title runs.

Those quoting Nash's switch as his impact, incorrect... Savage jumped first... remember Hogan was a free agent for a while when he signed to WCW. Savage was under contract to WWF, it expired and he signed.. he was pretty much gone from WWF within a week. Remember that awkward "goodbye" from Vince... no other wrestler who jumped ship ever got that.

While he may not have debuted in the same way as Nash and Hall, it was the first time a BIG name had publically told Vince and the WWF, "Thank's but no thanks, I'll go to WCW" even Luger did it before Nash and Hall... and he was on a WWF PPV the night before. When you think about it, Nash and Hall had been off WWF TV for a while, with Nash's last act being to take the Tombstone... Savage was there one week, gone the next... as was Luger. It was a shock to see then in WCW, but it's tenuous and self aggrandizing on all their parts to actually say people thought they were WWF contracted then.

Where Nash and Hall made the impact on the BUSINESS is one simple thing. Safe Harbour.

Forget the guaranteed contracts for a moment, Nash and Hall had something known as Safe Harbour and were the first to have it. That meant if WCW hired ANYONE or gave ANYONE a new deal that was bigger than theirs, they HAD to be given the same...automatically. When WCW were offering Bret 3m a year... that meant they were offering Hall and Nash 3m a year too... When Goldberg was getting 5m... so were they...

That was arguably the single biggest mistake WCW/Eric ever made... as once they had it, all the players had to have it and you created a situation where a payrise for one, was a payrise for all.

Today there is a version of it in WWE - No one will be able to get "more" on a basic contract than Cena and Taker... no one will get a bigger cut of their image rights than those two either...so they sign Brock or Goldberg to silly money, that means Cena and Taker are getting a bump.

But make no mistake both Savage and Nash have equal claim and impact - just in different ways and times that changed the business forever.

If you're talking in ring career? Then on balance I'm afraid Nash gets the nod, by virtue of his meteoric rise, number of titles and angles involved in. Savage had a GREAT career, but at it's peak he had the same 1 year as the top guy in the WWF - he lost to Hogan, Nash beat Michaels... Sure Randy got a second title at Mania, but it was clearly a "goodbye" in Vince's eyes.

Where Savage had the "better" career is in terms of body of work. You can point to Savage and say he did better in the ring for longer than Nash did... but ultimately there were many years of toil and drudgery when he was passed his best and on his way to the top. The Macho King time was pretty tepid... as was his latter NWO runs and TNA... As good as his early stuff was, he didn't hit WWF stride until the Steamboat feud...

Nash condensed his career into a shorter time but did more in that time.

What's scary is that, unlike Makeveli and Scott Steiner's boyfriend, you're normally one I consider a credible poster on these forums..yet you conclude that Nash had the better in-ring career?? There's nothing objective or rational about this statement. We're all entitled to opinions and I do respect your opinion more than most around here. But just a fair warning. You will lose a ton of respect and credibility when you try to make the impossible claim that Nash had a better in-ring career. An in-ring career has nothing to do with how many world titles they place around your waist. An in-ring career should be looked at primarily as how you touched audiences with your character. Kevin Nash as a singles wrestler was artificially pushed (most often by himself). Nash's in-ring career owes everything to the guys he was surrounded by. He comes nowhere near Savage on any level. You cannot discount Savage's time without a world title because that was a period when titles were held for years. And you cannot discount Savage's time before WWE. He didn't even join WWE until he was almost 33. He had blown audience away for a good decade before WWE. And it was only a decade after this when Randy was 44 that wrestling boomed and companies were getting 2 prime time shows and 6 hours each a week. Could you imagine how huge Savage would have been if he had been 24 (or even 34) in 1996 rather than 44? What's Jericho 44 or 45? If he had been 20 years older, he would never have held one world title between 1985-1998 with all the main event draws competing with Savage. As much as I love Jericho, he's a perfect example of what I'm saying. Would Jericho have a shitty in-ring career compared to say Kevin Owens if wrestling reached its all time peak in 2017? No way. Jericho is lucky to have been a young guy when wrestling got huge. Could you imagine Savage at 24 to 45 like Jericho with 12 ppvs a year instead of 4? Could you imagine Savage as a young guy on your TV 6 hours a week instead of 1 or 2 (or not at all)? Savage's in-ring career cannot be defined through the rose coloured mid 1990s lens or through world title victories (Randy Orton can win 30 world titles, he's still never going to be considered anywhere near as impactful as Daniel Bryan or even Ricky Steamboat). The NWO period was the twilight of Savage's career. Much like the Owens-Jericho partnership is the twilight of Jericho's. We don't conclude Jericho's worth on a small timeframe we remember well. We take his entire career into account.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

What's scary is that, unlike Makeveli and Scott Steiner's boyfriend, you're normally one I consider a credible poster on these forums..yet you conclude that Nash had the better in-ring career?? There's nothing objective or rational about this statement. We're all entitled to opinions and I do respect your opinion more than most around here. But just a fair warning. You will lose a ton of respect and credibility when you try to make the impossible claim that Nash had a better in-ring career. An in-ring career has nothing to do with how many world titles they place around your waist. An in-ring career should be looked at primarily as how you touched audiences with your character. Kevin Nash as a singles wrestler was artificially pushed (most often by himself). Nash's in-ring career owes everything to the guys he was surrounded by. He comes nowhere near Savage on any level.

THTRobTaylor's right you know, @ilapierre. That's exactly the biggest issue with the IWC we're dealing with. Nash and Steiner are two of the IWC's most often maligned enigmatic performers whom the IWC look at as the alphas who are cancerous to the business, when you should take a long look at the alphas in Hogan and Flair who are worse than Nash and Steiner.

 

[ilapierre]

THTRobTaylor's right you know, @ilapierre. That's exactly the biggest issue with the IWC we're dealing with. Nash and Steiner are two of the IWC's most often maligned enigmatic performers whom the IWC look at as the alphas who are cancerous to the business, when you should take a long look at the alphas in Hogan and Flair who are worse than Nash and Steiner.

I'm not a smart mark spreading lies about Kevin Nash. I'm someone who objectively remembers wrestling history. I've written hundreds of posts during my time here. Many defending Kevin Nash and the period of time when he was allegedly booking. But I don't defend Nash because he was someone I subjectively enjoyed. I defend Nash objectively because there are many wrestling fans out there who can't differentiate between the reality and the myth of what happened to WCW. So don't lump me in with the Nash haters. I know my shit when it comes to what happened to WCW at the end of the century. As far as Steiner is concerned, I could care less if he had a negative backstage attitude. The one thing I enjoyed about him was that he was the most politically incorrect guy at the time. But, objectively, that doesn't gloss over the fact that he was clumsy and dangerous. It doesn't gloss over the fact that his attitude truly was cancerous to the people around him. Wrestling fans today may trash Steiner more than deserved. But that has more to do with the WWE obsessed kids of today who are programmed by WWE home video revisionism. I enjoy Scott Steiner the interview where he bashes the fuck out of Triple H and Hogan far more than I enjoy Scott Steiner the wrestler who was never any more of a draw than the Big Bossman.

 

[LBGetBack]

Kevin Nash was over when he was Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, or Scott Hall's sidekick. Randy Savage was over. Always. Period.

 

[sikkbones]

Bret was one of the best talkers in the business by 96-97. The point is the NWO angle sold itself. Would've been a huge angle with any two big name stars to kick it off.

Bret one of the best talker's? like ever?

the only reason he was over in 1997 is because the canada vs usa gimmick worked... and he could talk about that...

bret was never a great talker.. but he was a great wrestler.

 

[Makaveli31]

Kevin Nash was a big tall scary looking dude who was not enjoyable to watch in a wrestling match. He just looked the part. His place was in a tag team with Scott Hall and as a bouncer for Hogan, Savage and whoever else above him on the NWO depth chart

LOL there was nothing "scary" about Kevin Nash. How old are you? 10? He was over because of his charisma. He was someone you could meet at a bar and have a couple beers with and shoot the shit. He was funny, had a sense of humor, had sex appeal (for the chicks) and was a legit badass.

not enjoyable to watch in a wrestling match

I guess you missed his matches with Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. I never said he was Ricky Steamboat but when paired with the right person he was enjoyable to watch.

The moment Nash entered the world title picture is the moment Nash lost almost all of his allure. It is the moment WCW started to tank.

I guess 18,000 at the MCI Center and over 50,000 at the Georgia Dome the next night in DC constitutes "tanking." LOL

Guys like Eddie or Jericho and Benoit should have been elevated instead. Had Hall been a stable guy, he would have deserved a main event push before Nash because he was way more over and was much more enjoyable and believable in the ring. Oh and if you don't want to talk about the NWO in WWE let's look at the NWO with Hall, Nash and Hitman. How'd that do again?

Right because guys like Eddy, Benoit and Jericho were main event draws in 1998/99. As far as NWO 2000 we'd never know because Bret was injured shortly after they banded together or did you forget that too?

 

[LBGetBack]

Bret one of the best talker's? like ever?

the only reason he was over in 1997 is because the canada vs usa gimmick worked... and he could talk about that...

bret was never a great talker.. but he was a great wrestler.

No, not ever. Just in the business at that time.

Bret turned himself heel largely with his promos, in early 97. Bret always got his angle over and his point across when he talked. This notion that you have to be funny or say all kinds catchphrases(actually Bret had one) to be a good promo is so wrong.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

No, not ever. Just in the business at that time.

Bret turned himself heel largely with his promos, in early 97. Bret always got his angle over and his point across when he talked. This notion that you have to be funny or say all kinds catchphrases(actually Bret had one) to be a good promo is so wrong.

To be fair though, Bret did kind of somewhat change his in-ring gameplay style from a safe technical wrestler to an all-out brawler because he had a knee injury that he should've addressed while he was out on his hiatus for much of 1996 when he was deciding whether he should come back and stay with the WWF or move over to WCW for more money instead of putting off knee surgery until the Spring Break of 1997 when he went under the knife that only put him out for three weeks.

I think the knee injury would have hindered his safe technical wrestling style so he (set to turn 40 in July 1997) may as well have had to incorporate the Figure Four ringpost as his heel trait, gameplay wise. After nearly 20+ years of wrestling matches non-stop without having a hiatus before 1996, Bret might have compensated for his declining in-ring ability to at least try to focus more on his promo skills.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

I don't know how this is even a question. Macho Man had more impact by and large. The nWo arguably had a larger impact than Savage, but Kevin Nash is only a piece of the nWo - not the whole. Is the question is about Nash and Savage, or is it about nWo over Macho Man?

Those are two very different questions. Macho Man Randy Savage was the better wrestler, the bigger singles draw, superior on the stick and I would even argue had the greater presentation aka look. Yes, Nash is bigger and taller, but who cares?

Nash has nothing on Macho when it comes to wrestling ability or the stick. Macho has many, many legendary promos (cream of the crop, the beat goes on, the Megapowers unite, etc) and he has many legendary matches under his belt (Mania III vs Steamboat for example).

Macho headlined more WrestleManias and held the title during boom periods for both WWF and WCW. Nash headlined one of the worst WrestleManias ever and was champion in WWF and WCW when both were on respective declines. Diesel was never a draw for WWF, nWo Nash as a draw for WCW.

nWo kicked off the Monday Night War era. Nash did not kick it off. It was Nash and Hall as glorified sidekicks to heel Hulk Hogan that changed wrestling forever. Kevin Nash didn't do that on his own. Macho Man was ahead of nWo in a lot of ways, he began wearing black long before they did.

One could even argue that Nash lifts right out of the nWo. It was Scott Hall's attitude and Hogan's star power coupled with his heel turn that made nWo. Nash just went along with the attitude that was showcased by Hall.

Let's pretend history was different. Maybe Triple H or Shawn Michaels left WWF for WCW along with Hall. nWo would have formed the same way. Nash added a lot of important stuff to nWo. His physical and imposing nature added a lot to nWo that a small guy like Michaels couldn't have. Nash wasn't the draw in nWo, it was Hollywood Hogan.

So what's the question then? Is it who had more impact Savage or Nash? Or is the question who had more impact: Macho Man or nWo. See the difference?

On his own, Kevin Nash is the finger poke of doom guy. He's Diesel, a poor man's Hogan who failed to connect. In the nWo, Nash is an absolute legend. He had a hall of fame career with or without the nWo, but so far as singles wrestlers go: Macho Man Randy Savage had a much bigger impact on wrestling.

 

[RIPbossman]

If Macho Man is removed from wrestling history, not much changes. Hogan was still the face of WWE during Savage's year long title run (Hogan never left the main event picture). Replace Savage with Ted Dibiase or Rick Rude then, and while Savage was better than those two, nothing significant changes.

Nash, along with Hall, gave the nWo the cool vibe that made them marketable (along with Hogan's heel turn which made them super important). Remove Nash, who had just been the year long WWF champion and year long face of the WWF, its a question of whether the group is launched as successfuly as it was.

 

[Makaveli31]

Nash, along with Hall, gave the nWo the cool vibe that made them marketable (along with Hogan's heel turn which made them super important). Remove Nash, who had just been the year long WWF champion and year long face of the WWF, its a question of whether the group is launched as successfuly as it was.

Exactly. Nash's IMPACT on the wrestling business from 1996-2001 is UNQUESTIONED. People that were around know. Only idiots think Kevin Nash can be "replaced" in the NWO and still think it would be successful as it was. He was not Sid or Vader he had a certain charisma about him that made people not only LOVE the NWO but want to be BE in the NWO. It is why the NWO merchandise became THE hottest selling item and were worn just about EVERYWHERE (including RAW!! LOL) No, you could not replace him with HHH, Shawn Michaels, or Bret Hart. That is the most ABSURD thing I've ever heard. His chemistry with Scott Hall was one like brothers (which they were). You can't make that up. Hogan never had that kind of chemistry with Savage.

Nash might have been second in the pecking order to Hogan in 1997 but make no mistake he was the alpha dog by 1998. Leading his own faction. He had clearly moved past Sting in the babyface hierarchy as only second to Goldberg. 1998 was THE hottest year in pro wrestling as the WWF and WCW went head to head every week and Kevin Nash as leader of the Wolfpack was right in the middle of it. There had never been a year like it nor will there ever be another one as both companies pulled out the stops to top the other.

Nash's impact could have been even greater but he was stunted by Hogan who refused to work with Nash. Still, Nash challenged Goldberg for the WORLD title in one of the most IMPACT FULL (and controversial) pro wrestling main events of ALL TIME. Nash ends Goldberg's undefeated streak.

Now, IMPACT can be GOOD or BAF. It's defined as "influence" or "the force exterted by new ideas." The fact that Kevin Nash is such a polarizing figure reflects that.

1) The formation of a backstage "kliq" and the influence they had in the locker room and with Vince (for good or bad)

2) The jump to WCW and the formation of the NWO (the most successful angle in pro wrestling history)

3) Being the first "tweener" a rule breaker or classic heel who personality gets over with the fans and becomes cheered.

4) Rising to head booker in 1999 and essentially guiding WCW

5) And of course he role in the "demise of WCW" i.e. beating Goldberg (which he says was not his idea), his booking in 1999, being the first multi-million dollar contract in the pro wrestling (besides Hogan)

All of that is IMPACT. Positive OR Negative. No one can deny the impact Kevin Nash had in the business during it's most lucrative time AND it's demise.
2)

 

[LBGetBack]

Exactly. Nash's IMPACT on the wrestling business from 1996-2001 is UNQUESTIONED. People that were around know. Only idiots think Kevin Nash can be "replaced" in the NWO and still think it would be successful as it was. He was not Sid or Vader he had a certain charisma about him that made people not only LOVE the NWO but want to be BE in the NWO. It is why the NWO merchandise became THE hottest selling item and were worn just about EVERYWHERE (including RAW!! LOL) No, you could not replace him with HHH, Shawn Michaels, or Bret Hart. That is the most ABSURD thing I've ever heard. His chemistry with Scott Hall was one like brothers (which they were). You can't make that up. Hogan never had that kind of chemistry with Savage.

Nash might have been second in the pecking order to Hogan in 1997 but make no mistake he was the alpha dog by 1998. Leading his own faction. He had clearly moved past Sting in the babyface hierarchy as only second to Goldberg. 1998 was THE hottest year in pro wrestling as the WWF and WCW went head to head every week and Kevin Nash as leader of the Wolfpack was right in the middle of it. There had never been a year like it nor will there ever be another one as both companies pulled out the stops to top the other.

Nash's impact could have been even greater but he was stunted by Hogan who refused to work with Nash. Still, Nash challenged Goldberg for the WORLD title in one of the most IMPACT FULL (and controversial) pro wrestling main events of ALL TIME. Nash ends Goldberg's undefeated streak.

Now, IMPACT can be GOOD or BAF. It's defined as "influence" or "the force exterted by new ideas." The fact that Kevin Nash is such a polarizing figure reflects that.

1) The formation of a backstage "kliq" and the influence they had in the locker room and with Vince (for good or bad)

2) The jump to WCW and the formation of the NWO (the most successful angle in pro wrestling history)

3) Being the first "tweener" a rule breaker or classic heel who personality gets over with the fans and becomes cheered.

4) Rising to head booker in 1999 and essentially guiding WCW

5) And of course he role in the "demise of WCW" i.e. beating Goldberg (which he says was not his idea), his booking in 1999, being the first multi-million dollar contract in the pro wrestling (besides Hogan)

All of that is IMPACT. Positive OR Negative. No one can deny the impact Kevin Nash had in the business during it's most lucrative time AND it's demise.
2)

Name calling. Nice. And I'm the one who gets "personal" when people disagree with me. LOL.

You're taking what YOU personally enjoyed about Nash and making it bigger than it was. You wished you could hang out with him and shoot the shit. Cool.

The angle was going to be monstrous with or without Nash. Two major stars "invading" the rival company, and Hulk Hogan turned heel and joined them and led the group, and then everybody joined. That's the story. Nash played his role, no question. Making it like he WAS the NWO is laughable.

 

[Makaveli31]

You're taking what YOU personally enjoyed about Nash and making it bigger than it was. You wished you could hang out with him and shoot the shit. Cool.

Obviously you know nothing about wrestling and what it takes to get over with a predominately male audience. Bigger than it was? Obviously you weren't there and did not experience the NWO angel in real time and only what you see on the WWE Network. I'm sorry. It was a great time to be wrestling fan.

The angle was going to be monstrous with or without Nash. Two major stars "invading" the rival company, and Hulk Hogan turned heel and joined them and led the group, and then everybody joined. That's the story. Nash played his role, no question. Making it like he WAS the NWO is laughable.

I;m not going to go through this again. Obviously you don't get it. You weren't there to see the on screen chemistry between Hall, Nash, and Hogan it would have worked with Bret, Shawn, Sid, Vader. or anyone else you mentioned. It might made a big splash initially but it would not have grown into the mass movement it did. Hall and Nash gained almost a cult like following unseen in the business. If you don't understand that again I am sorry. You won't that from the Network.

I never said Nash WAS the NWO. He was an INTEGRAL part you were the one who said he was "replaceable" which is even MORE laughable LOL

 

[Makaveli31]

It would NOT have worked with Bret, Shawn, Vader etc....

 

[LBGetBack]

Obviously you know nothing about wrestling and what it takes to get over with a predominately male audience. Bigger than it was? Obviously you weren't there and did not experience the NWO angel in real time and only what you see on the WWE Network. I'm sorry. It was a great time to be wrestling fan.



I;m not going to go through this again. Obviously you don't get it. You weren't there to see the on screen chemistry between Hall, Nash, and Hogan it would have worked with Bret, Shawn, Sid, Vader. or anyone else you mentioned. It might made a big splash initially but it would not have grown into the mass movement it did. Hall and Nash gained almost a cult like following unseen in the business. If you don't understand that again I am sorry. You won't that from the Network.

I never said Nash WAS the NWO. He was an INTEGRAL part you were the one who said he was "replaceable" which is even MORE laughable LOL

First off, Nash was never as over as Savage was. Never. So save the BS. You thought Nash was cool. Fine. Nobody cares though.

And you're wrong. I witnessed Nash's entire WWF and WCW careers in real time, as well as most of Savage's. Try that BS card on someone else. I ain't the one.

 

[Makaveli31]

First off, Nash was never as over as Savage was. Never. So save the BS. You thought Nash was cool. Fine. Nobody cares though.

Pure conjecture on your part but I'm sure you'll have an opinion that you'll try to camouflage as a fact.

Yes I did along with MILLIONS of other people who watched Nitro, Thunders, bought the PPV's, bought the merch, stood line for hours for tix, bough the DVD's and continue to be fans of his to this day. I'm sorry I guess I'm the "only one".

And you're wrong. I witnessed Nash's entire WWF and WCW careers in real time, as well as most of Savage's. Try that BS card on someone else. I ain't the one.

The only BS is coming from you. I've negated every point you've made so far.

 

[LBGetBack]

Pure conjecture on your part but I'm sure you'll have an opinion that you'll try to camouflage as a fact.

Yes I did along with MILLIONS of other people who watched Nitro, Thunders, bought the PPV's, bought the merch, stood line for hours for tix, bough the DVD's and continue to be fans of his to this day. I'm sorry I guess I'm the "only one".



The only BS is coming from you. I've negated every point you've made so far.

Yeah, man. I was there. I saw and heard the weekly crowd reactions. I saw and heard who others were talking about. Randy Savage was more over than Kevin Nash. I'm sorry that you dismiss that as "conjecture" while tossing out bullshit like "you're a kid that wasn't there, can't get that from the Network. Hart would NOT have worked." LOL.

Yeah, the NWO was huge. Nash was a role player in it. Cool. You haven't negated anything. You haven't done anything but establish that you love you some Kevin Nash. Cool.